I don't have many strong opinions so I'm rereading the game and posting thoughts in increments of ten pages. Pages 1-10 are below:
Spoiler: Pages 1-10 Thoughts
In post 93, ManateeGal wrote:i'd assume the number of players that start demonic is 4-5 if 7 demonic players for a maf win
- I have trouble believing scum!Manatee would ever say something like this? Mostly because it's so obviously wrong (imo) and I'd expect scum would have a better grasp on the number of starting demons given they're a group of three and probably have roles involved with making humans demonic. And Manatee does not strike me as the type of player to intentionally fudge the numbers like this to fake town tell. It genuinely feels like this is a town player spitballing instead of scum trying to win some town credit. Strongly Reinforces my Manatee townread.
- I've noticed when Ceph is scum he ups the snark/sass level to endear himself to players and project a tone of nonchalance, and I'm happy to say I don't really see much of that at all in the first 10 pages, which is a good sign I guess?
- Agree with Annie Edison that Dunnstral is not the type of player to fake townslip in my experience so 99 makes me feel good about him. Also like his mini-case on Manatee even though I disagree with every aspect of it.
- Still don't like Medea's entrance and they deserve the votes they got. I don't get the early and super-confident LLD town read even after Cabd's explanation which makes me feel like he's just townreading her so she stays off his back
This is just PA right now. You can get a more blended post from us later when we're back in the same county again.
First, I apologize that I couldn't be around last night. I feel really badly about telling people (Dragons) I wanted to talk and then ditching instead.
More useful to the game though, slogging down the Dan Ryan is surprisingly good for mulling over Reads: Why I Have Them, so here's where I am for all of you waiting so raptly:
Town
Dunnstral: He's just town to me. Aside from the mechanics understanding missing, I haven't seen a post from him that doesn't feel like it's coming from a town mindset. No attempts to ingratiate himself with others, no jumping to post opinions that others want to see from him. Measured in a way that comes from a town mindset.
AA9: This is probably the opposite of my Dunnstral read while still ending up as town. Way back in the day I got to play a lot of games with AA9. My temperament wasn't such that I usually (ever?) ended up getting pulled into her spat-fight type posting as a co-jouster, but I witnessed a lot of her play. It's...pretty much textbook town!AA9. If she managed to go on a multi-year hiatus and come back to jump into her first playing game perfectly replicating her town style as scum, well then, hats off. I'm hoping she can come in and reset from her and notscience's scenery-chewing fest and generate content elsewhere. But hard town read for me.
Annie Edison: Town read. I don't like all their content this game, but I like their in-the-moment reactions. Dropping off us and then circling back later felt like genuinely reassessing town. Dropping the elimbait AA9 fight and the way they did it, town. I'm aiming to go back and reread some of their posting with a more firm town-alignment assumption for them and see what I get from it.
Snarky Fishes: Yes, Bell, you can ride with ffery for me again. I've only skimmed a bit of what got posted last night, but I'm seeing some game-solvy stuff I like from Bell specifically (even if I think my take on Pooky is different). And having also spent some time navel-gazing about my own hydra dynamic with Cabd, I think I get what ffery is looking for, not seeing, and freaking about. I like their reachout to Lukewarm, and I like their thought processes elsewhere too. Moving on, but can elaborate more later today if asked.
Leaning Town
Spiffeh: I'm not a Spiffeh reading machine like some other players here purport to be. I've liked him more and more as the day goes on. I see him looking to engage and being...flashy? It's a lean, and I need to fully catch up and see if/what he posted last night more. P-edit: saw his 'first ten pages' thing and kind of like some of what he's seeing in hindsight. Happy with him in this tier.
Rhea: I'll start with my impression of LLD as a player overall. I don't see her as someone who has conversations with people who aren't her elim targets with the goal of having her mind changed. She engages with those people to make them believe her point of view, as town or scum. To me it probably doesn't much matter if Rhea's the one playing; I'm seeing the same kind of approach here from her. Her reachouts of 'talk to me' are 'ask me questions so I can tell you what you should be thinking.' I think I wish I was seeing more of a freely-chosen target choice more often from her here. Maybe someone else can frame this better. In terms of her alignment here, I'm leaning town but don't have anything shiny to point to in support of that. Just a 'surprised Rhea makes the plays she does here as scum' feeling.
Sleez/unwnd: I liked the Sleez posting better. Sorry? I suspect a lot of my discomfort with his play since then is because he's very much focuses on the clique thing, and for me personally the idea of being in a clique is uncomfortable and not how I want to see myself. Something I have to address internally I suppose if I opt to play any more games going forward. I don't like the framing around interacting with us as 'I do/don't trust you' because barring your own role PM or mod-confirmed info, you never fully trust someone. It's a lot of bluster about something that I don't think is very relevant to working toward game-solving as town. Having said that, I liked the independent thought from Sleez earlier on, and I appreciate the food for thought of some of his reads here.
Averaging out to Null
Pooky: I think my take on Pooky is colored by often having read his recent games either knowing his alignment or seeing his first few days of posting from a more removed point. But I'd disagree with Bell in that regard, that usually I can see where town-Pooky is pushing people toward content or doing things he can sort rather than going off into the outfield to pick daisies like he does as scum. I think he's a bit like Cabd-scum in that this can change if he sees something shiny worth doing in the main game as scum, but then it tends to be more--insular?--like the LOLMasons in that FakeGod game. I'm not seeing anything here so far that makes me think town!Pooky. That might change in a couple game days with more data, but that's where I am now.
Here There Be Dragons: I'm still at the flashes thing. I'm moving y'all up to null because a) I haven't read your overnight content and b) in my commute today amidst my navel-gazing about how my own hydra with my husband is working/not working so far, I think I have some sympathy for the dynamic of taking two people who may be quite complementary IRL and making their games mesh for the thread's consumption. I'll try to have more here later today.
Lean Scum
I'll preface this category with 'this is very mushy and I don't like how I've interacted with two of the three of these players entirely, but I also don't like how they've posted, so shrugface?'
Lukewarm: Yes, I'm leaning scummy here, but I don't want to vote here today. I don't like a lot of what I've seen, and some of that may be old-school sensibilities coming out, but I don't like that he jumped into my line of questioning at Dunnstral. I thought it was rude and unproductive for my read on him. I triple-ISO'd it and while it did end up cementing a Dunnstral town read for me, if Dunnstral had responded in a way I read as scummy I wouldn't have trusted it as much because of the derail. I'm not seeing town play here, but I want to give space and see what's generated today, plus what Lukewarm might do with actual flip data. I wasn't impressed with his reaction to the Snarky Fishes reachout yesterday; it seemed half-hearted after all the talk of wanting to be townread by ffery. IIRC it worked for ffery to read him better, and part of the 'not voting here today' thing is that I am townreading ffery and am willing to give some weight to her opinions.
ManateeGal: I'm seeing a lot of whiplash here, from an initial scummy reaction to being suspected that reads like a lot of squawky scum to trying to react 'right' to what people are saying in the thread. I'm not as happy about this read because I feel like I've been sticking my own oar in her reactions, and this is where Cabd's style really doesn't mesh with mine. I would have rather stayed mum about my interpretation of her reaction and readslist to see if she'd get there on her own instead of (relatively quickly) pointing out what I saw as a non-town mindset in her play. I feel like I've tainted my read on her, but I have a hard time seeing where I'd ever townbin her after her early play here.
Titus: Nothing in Titus's ISO feels town to me. There's a disproportionate reliance on the mechanic that I don't like on Day One, and while I make allowance for the weekend, I don't feel like there's any attempt to get into the game from a solving perspective. I don't buy the 'OMG game has so many pages' thing partially because she was quite critical of the idea of page limits in my Warehouse 13 game. To me, that implies being fine with Day One rambling on from a game perspective. She's also avoiding really mixing it up with anyone, and I don't feel like it's coming from a town place. More of a 'keep head down, shove the problem down the line, and see where I can jump later' thing that comes from a scum playbook.
VOTE: Titus
No, this isn't a fun vote, but it's where I think scum is living, and I'm more interested in cutting down scum numbers (especially since I suspect that if she's scum she isn't demonized yet) than having brilliant insights.
I still stand by my Madea townread. They aren't wrong in there reasons for townreading me. There are two differences in this and Warehouse 13. One, I'm not asking for a hard page cap. Two, my real life has changed significantly making it much harder to keep up with the pace of the game.
I think Lukewarm is scum, which makes me a little reluctant to actually vote Spiffeh due to me not thinking they are teamed from what little I have comprehended. Yet, my thinking on the wagons has Spiffeh as possible scum.
Can someone explain to me why Lukewarm is town and bold it so I know to really focus on it?
I'm excited to announce that after an amazing 3 months of paid vacation that is somehow real. I have to start work again. Expect a steep drop off in activity.
This might just be omgus, but am not liking his 270.
Cabd seems to think that I am an easy person to read if Ceph's game is any indication, so the fact that he appears to be outsourcing the read to Dunn instead of talking to me / figuring me out himself seems suspicious to me.
I am on board with the "my wife won't let me give out reads" being a strange stance
In post 254, Dunnstral wrote:I have a positive impression on everybody but these players:
ManateeGal
Medea the Alien
Lukewarm
Titus
Arcangel9
Talk to me about Lukewarm. Because, self-centered as it is, I didn't like his whole 'nice guy' approach to the idea of yeeting Cabd with a 'poor penguin doesn't play many games these days' sentiment. Maybe I'm just a bitch, but if you find scum you yeet scum and let them troll the dead thread instead. I realize Lukewarm has a persona of 'wouldn't have condoned the Marci quickelim, let everyone have a turn with the class teddy bear' but does he really think anyone who believes a slot that has both Cabd and a scum role PM should be giving it room out of pity?
I miss incisive Lukewarm that I've spectated elsewhere.
So putting the quiet things out loud in the thread. This makes me feel very good about SF town because Bell has barely played with me; not enough to be able to definitively say that my scum game has been more robotic than my town game.
[side note: it's something I'm aware of and would be trying to improve on if I drew scum when I had fucks to give, so I'm by no means saying that anyone should read my posts here and townbin me for perceived lack-of-robotness. If you think I'm not robotic here. Self-meta is shit.]
Since this isn't likely a strong statement Bell on his own could make, I tend to think this is a distillation of hydra discussions with ffery, as while she might not have phrased it as bluntly in-thread, it sounds like something she'd believe and discuss with Bell. So that means they're actually trying to sort us behind the scenes, which means town here.
Campaigns for Shards early, claims it will make her "readable" doesn't seem nearly as interested in sharding up post-rules change - this makes like no sense to me cuz sharding up went from dangerously anti-town to way less dangerous post rules change.
Don't like the timing on the vote on spiff - feels pretty self-preservative rather than she thinks he's a scumbag.
"I hope one day I can openly play as wolfy as Pooky and get zero pressure for it grumble grumble."
-MariaR
"I can't even look at the game anymore.
That evil teddy bear has got everyone twirling by his thumb.
It's like witnessing an slow but unavoidable train crash you can't stop."
@Pooky, I am just as interested in being sharded. I just didn't repeat myself once the change happened. Why would you interpret me as being less interested after the announcement? I shouldn't need to mention it every single post. I am trying to do some scumhunting.
This vote, for the record, is a bad vote and my Pooky read drops significantly.
you should be more interested after the rules change than before the rules change if you're a town 1-sharder because risk/reward just took a big swing.
you feel less interested to me which feels like what a scumbag would feel cuz their win con just moved from really easily attainable to way less attainable.
"I hope one day I can openly play as wolfy as Pooky and get zero pressure for it grumble grumble."
-MariaR
"I can't even look at the game anymore.
That evil teddy bear has got everyone twirling by his thumb.
It's like witnessing an slow but unavoidable train crash you can't stop."
hi PA how does luke's current wagoncomp affect the bottom tier of your reads?
Right now it's just ManateeGirl, but I'll count Titus as being on there too for this.
I'm not partner hunting at this point, so I'd say minimally. I'd also say after watching Warehouse 13 go with dueling scum wagons Day One I don't put nearly as much faith in the wagon/counterwagon dynamic these days. I also suspect there may be places in this set-up where bussing is helpful, so I'm not ruling anything out on the basis of impacting partner pairings.
Right now my ManateeGirl and Lukewarm reads are independent of each other. If one flips scum, it would of course impact my read of the other, but that's true for about half the players here to varying degrees.
Titus, I don't see scum-her as believing she's influencing the gamestate here, whatever else is going on, so also not really AI for me.
That does remind me that something else I disliked in Lukewarm's ISO was the sense that he was all 'woe is me, Medea scumreads me --> I get voted and elim'd' when we weren't voting him. Felt disingenuous again.
Actually (I assume this is Bulge) what's your take on Lukewarm right now? Independently of notscience and independently of game expectations for him (which I'm going to try to set aside myself for the rest of the day)
"I hope one day I can openly play as wolfy as Pooky and get zero pressure for it grumble grumble."
-MariaR
"I can't even look at the game anymore.
That evil teddy bear has got everyone twirling by his thumb.
It's like witnessing an slow but unavoidable train crash you can't stop."
So putting the quiet things out loud in the thread. This makes me feel very good about SF town because Bell has barely played with me; not enough to be able to definitively say that my scum game has been more robotic than my town game.
[side note: it's something I'm aware of and would be trying to improve on if I drew scum when I had fucks to give, so I'm by no means saying that anyone should read my posts here and townbin me for perceived lack-of-robotness. If you think I'm not robotic here. Self-meta is shit.]
Since this isn't likely a strong statement Bell on his own could make, I tend to think this is a distillation of hydra discussions with ffery, as while she might not have phrased it as bluntly in-thread, it sounds like something she'd believe and discuss with Bell. So that means they're actually trying to sort us behind the scenes, which means town here.
--PA
Bell and I are discussing your hydra and its heads a lot, but that was entirely a Bell thought.
In post 1966, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:you should be more interested after the rules change than before the rules change if you're a town 1-sharder because risk/reward just took a big swing.
you feel less interested to me which feels like what a scumbag would feel cuz their win con just moved from really easily attainable to way less attainable.
That's utter bullshit you're arguing I am less interested.
I'm not sure what you mean by a 1-sharder. We should all be one-sharders.
Anyway, since my gambit caught Pooky, I will partially claim. In my demonic form, I am a friendly neighbor.
I know this group of players struggles to read me, and would eventually wagon me. So I figured I'd bait a scum to come up with a shitty reason to get on and Pooky took the bait.
I still stand by my Madea townread. They aren't wrong in there reasons for townreading me. There are two differences in this and Warehouse 13. One, I'm not asking for a hard page cap. Two, my real life has changed significantly making it much harder to keep up with the pace of the game.
I think Lukewarm is scum, which makes me a little reluctant to actually vote Spiffeh due to me not thinking they are teamed from what little I have comprehended. Yet, my thinking on the wagons has Spiffeh as possible scum.
Can someone explain to me why Lukewarm is town and bold it so I know to really focus on it?
Same for Madea scum.
Titus can you elaborate on why you're scum reading me? What about the wagons makes me possible scum?
In post 1962, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:Don't like the timing on the vote on spiff - feels pretty self-preservative rather than she thinks he's a scumbag.
how does luke's current wagoncomp affect the bottom tier of your reads?