White flag #824 game over

[GuiltyLion]

I'm somewhat offput by goats's arc on GL at this point; in particular 351 is extremely out-for-blood in a world where quite a few people (me, datisi, infinity) that were not on goats's scumdar (in fact, this is exactly the list that they used to reinforce their point in 309) were starting to flip on GL. It's a little odd to me that, while they are trying to convince us that GL is still scum, they're not really acknowledging that there is real reason to have divested from GL suspicion. I'm not saying they themselves need to but the "I want to see who's on counterwagons" line is a bit strong. Even if it is like somewhat sardonic based on the 2nd line of the post.

^^this is goodposting

it's tough because there definitely exist some town players who will decide that their Scumread is Right and then aggressively push it to force the issue. I would guess goats plays like this as either alignment to a degree (if they're doing it as scum it's because they think they'd do it as town) - but the longer their scumread on me feels sticky the less I'm inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt. Like I really don't get a sense that they've ever honestly tried to reassess or re-evaluate on me

[Dwlee99]

but pooky also said bugspray wasn't scum for much the same reasons i did

and you just said that I was scum for trying to derail the bugspray wagon

But Pooky is a bear and you're a gun

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

im not saying i think bugspray is town

i have no idea what bugspray's alignment is tbh

I just find it weird af everyone is like all gungho for elimming bugspray when they haven't done anything.

[GuiltyLion]

Flea votes implosion in 59 as faer’s first post of the game, which does strike me as a bit odd.

I'm kind of two minds on this, I don't mind naked votes early game as I think you can often get Informative Content from the way people react to them, but with a hindsight townread on implosion it's certainly possible scum!Flea wanted to nudge an early miselim wagon along while skating by needing to give reasoning or commit to a degree of confidence. The bigger issue standing out to me is that Flea unvoted later and hasn't voted elsewhere since, even in spite of vocalizing a scumread on me while my wagon had momentum.

I don't like that you're dancing around a definitive read on Flea with your posts here, you had fae as town in 383 for 320, what's your past experience with Flea and how confident are you that fae doesn't post that as scum?

[GuiltyLion]

Because by that point I had already determined both implo and datisi were town and you should have too

like is nobody going to call this out?

Murdercat is scumreading me for not having implo at "town" when I dropped my readslist at 156

instead of townreading him off his interaction with me at 174 approximately 30 minutes later.



DOES THAT SOUND LIKE A REAL READ TO ANYONE HERE?!?!?!?


CAN ANYONE WITH A STRAIGHT FACE TELL ME THAT MURDERCAT!TOWN HAS THAT ACTUAL THOUGHT IN HIS HEAD???

I do vibe with this and it makes feel good about Pooky, I definitely didn't have implosion as town by 156 and I don't think it's reasonable to say we should have

I could understand it with Datisi but definitely not with implo, and doubly so because it was Pooky that baited implo between those posts into a readable reaction to begin with

that reminds me - Pooky did you ever post Flea games? I have no experience with Flea and I'm curious about these meta reads being tossed around because I'm finding Flea consistently scummy but I have no sense of faer normal playstyle

[GuiltyLion]

I wish I could swap implosion with Not_Mafia in my two D1 locktowns lol, 520 and 524 some definite catch-up mindmeld

[GuiltyLion]

I think Dwlee is still overall pretty probtown in spite of the looney tunes logic of 513 though, he's passing the vibe check

[Dwlee99]

Oh not mafia is in the game.

[GuiltyLion]

I think overall MC's spur of activity doesn't move the needle for me, I don't think it's outside of a good player's scumrange, and he's noticeably avoidant giving strong reads on some of the more peripheral but important slots like Flea and bugspray whereas his two more definitive scumreads (Dwlee/Pooky) feel convenient in that neither is a serious wagon but neither are popular townreads either. I can buy the suspicion on Dwlee but I don't think his reasoning for suspecting Pooky tracks especially given how much of it hedges on effectively "his reads in 156 are bad", and early game reads are often trash for most people, you're forcing content out of no information.

I don't really buy Infinity's suggestion that this is outside of MC's scumrange unless she has a ton of experience to back that up? has he never produced a half decent effort post as scum?

[Infinity 324]

i've seen him get into this scenario multiple times as scum and both times what he came up with was way more weaksauce and fake-sounding

[Infinity 324]

viewtopic.php?p=12574935#p12574935
viewtopic.php?p=12881813#p12881813

[goats]

why would I reassess on you GL? have you done anything worth reassessing? have you voted out scum or shown me how you're out of your scum range?

until then all you've done is write long wordy posts that sound v reasonable and nice to get people to townread you and thrown about some easily faked frustration here and there and suddenly the whole game is eating out of your hand when they agreed you were scummy af before. i don't buy it.

[goats]

for legal reasons "af" is an abbreviation for "as fish". just so y'all know

[GuiltyLion]

I don't see anything super notable in the movement from MC->bugspray I think it's mostly townies getting antsy with a slow wagon as soon as MC put in some effort. goats calling this out in 509/523 feels maybe townish? although I disagree that MC was acting significantly townier

overall I still like a towncore of Datisi, Infinity, Gamma, implosion, Dwlee, and I'll add Pooky there too as of his latest content. I wouldn't complain if bugspray went through, it's just an empty ISO, but I think anyone acting like it's good odds of scum is optimistic and I think if anything their lack of survivalism makes it a worse wagon than MC. Flea/Klick/goats is good odds of at least one scum in it I feel, and N_M disappearing makes me want to put him in that tier too

Infinity - I appreciate the links to those games, I'm about to call it a night but I think I should have a slower work day tomorrow and I'll try to read through them. I feel I've been in catchup mode too much since Friday, I'll make an effort to be more consistently around for Real Time Interactions tomorrow

[goats]

i think dwlee immediately seeing me as scum trying to derail the bugspray wagon but then being apathetic towards pooky having a similar line of thought is suggestive that they have a specific agenda and only care about those reasons when it's convenient to push that agenda

i would like a wagon that isn't bugspray or murdercat and if you guys don't want to do GL I think dwlee is a good alternative

[GuiltyLion]

why would I reassess on you GL? have you done anything worth reassessing? have you voted out scum or shown me how you're out of your scum range?

I'll unpause the goats mute to respond to this - I feel I already tried to show you one example of how I'm not playing how I like to play as scum and you didn't try to meet me there at all. I would hope my reads/thoughts should get me to clearly town status the longer I'm in this game, I'm already battling for top 3 in postcount that's another thing I can't do as scum

[GuiltyLion]

i think dwlee immediately seeing me as scum trying to derail the bugspray wagon but then being apathetic towards pooky having a similar line of thought is suggestive that they have a specific agenda and only care about those reasons when it's convenient to push that agenda

also this feels like again you're gloss over how there's like, worlds of context whenever two people make similar-at-a-surface-level arguments, and that context will affect how someone looks at one player vs another. The "we both made the same argument so either you consider us both scum or you're scum" reasoning isn't doing it for me, sorry

[GuiltyLion]

viewtopic.php?p=12574935#p12574935
viewtopic.php?p=12881813#p12881813

ok I lied about calling it a night earlier and I took a quick peek at both of these posts and I agree they're definitely a lot worse than what he posted here, and fairly recently as well too. I want to try to dig through a more complete look at his scumgames to see what his best effort looks like but I'll sleep on this as I agree these feel far more half-baked than 484

I'll UNVOTE:
for now and decide what I'm feeling tomorrow when I come back

[goats]

i think dwlee immediately seeing me as scum trying to derail the bugspray wagon but then being apathetic towards pooky having a similar line of thought is suggestive that they have a specific agenda and only care about those reasons when it's convenient to push that agenda

also this feels like again you're gloss over how there's like, worlds of context whenever two people make similar-at-a-surface-level arguments, and that context will affect how someone looks at one player vs another. The "we both made the same argument so either you consider us both scum or you're scum" reasoning isn't doing it for me, sorry

it's almost like I asked him what the difference is and he 100% dodged the question

[goats]

why would I reassess on you GL? have you done anything worth reassessing? have you voted out scum or shown me how you're out of your scum range?

I'll unpause the goats mute to respond to this - I feel I already tried to show you one example of how I'm not playing how I like to play as scum and you didn't try to meet me there at all. I would hope my reads/thoughts should get me to clearly town status the longer I'm in this game, I'm already battling for top 3 in postcount that's another thing I can't do as scum

that's a lot of unsupported assertions

[GuiltyLion]

not surprised by that response, going back to Not Trying To Defend Myself

I'll give you that Dwlee did dodge your question about it, that's fair. I don't think that makes him scummy but I guess 566 isn't a good point against you

anyway this my last post tonight for real this time, see y'all tomorrow

[implosion]

why would I reassess on you GL? have you done anything worth reassessing? have you voted out scum or shown me how you're out of your scum range?

until then all you've done is write long wordy posts that sound v reasonable and nice to get people to townread you and thrown about some easily faked frustration here and there and suddenly the whole game is eating out of your hand when they agreed you were scummy af before. i don't buy it.

This post is not how town with a continued scumread acts.

Town here will talk to other people to convince them of gl being scum. Town has no reason to explain to gl why they’re not reassessing him.

Scum will talk to gl because it performs confidence in the scumread.

[goats]

why would I reassess on you GL? have you done anything worth reassessing? have you voted out scum or shown me how you're out of your scum range?

until then all you've done is write long wordy posts that sound v reasonable and nice to get people to townread you and thrown about some easily faked frustration here and there and suddenly the whole game is eating out of your hand when they agreed you were scummy af before. i don't buy it.

This post is not how town with a continued scumread acts.

Town here will talk to other people to convince them of gl being scum. Town has no reason to explain to gl why they’re not reassessing him.

Scum will talk to gl because it performs confidence in the scumread.

yeah you're right that post was directed at GL. it was him I wanted to convince. when I said "all you've done is write long wordy posts that sound reasonable but aren't actually townie", and that there's no good reason to clear him, what I actually wanted to do was communicate that to him so he can improve his scum game for the future, rather than highlighting it to the rest of the game.

[MURDERCAT]

I do think this is strange because I don't have history playing with you, and certainly not with you and Pooky at the same time. Why should Pooky-specifically have been able to read me-specifically (and Datisi I guess but more interested in me) at that point in the game?

I don't really get why I have to defend this further, if someone in the game is trying to elim me and two of my town reads I'm going to be suspicious that they are scum trying to eliminate town.

[MURDERCAT]

I'm very interested in the juxtaposition of Infinity "this is very obviously MC's town meta" 324 and PookyThe "this is very obviously not MC's town meta" MagicalBear.

Could it be ... one is scum?