White flag #824 game over

[Dwlee99]

That's a trash progression

[Dwlee99]

Whatever, either you're scum and you are full of shit and I'm correct, or you have egg on your face when I flip.

[Dwlee99]

Also the dissonance wasn't even against scum agenda because goats was moving to pushing me before this head came in, and one of the first things this head did was push me

[Dwlee99]

Also also, I think I've gotten called scum in basically every game I've been in since I came back to playing mafia for scumreading someone who scumread me for bad reasons. Which again, you'd think Gamma might know from being in a game with me where this happened.

[GuiltyLion]

I pretty strongly disagree with GL+whoever else said that goats's hydra dissonance is townie. I think it's very possible the 2nd head saw they were scum, said "well fuck that i don't feel like playing the game" then 4 days later was like "well i have some time i guess i can pop in and see what's up" or etc. With that said I have mixed feelings about the 2nd heads actual posting.

do you see what I'm saying though about how I don't think it's likely the second head starts playing without even checking what the other head is doing? I feel a scum!hydra would be more careful than to do that

p-edit: mmm that's a fair point. I've been mainly thinking about their read on me 180ing but I guess I could see the heads communicating a basic "push Dwlee other than that I don't care what you do" type of plan.

[GuiltyLion]

I think N_M falling off in posting is, potentially, actually scummy. From how I'm 2ndhand interpreting how to read him based on some offhand things PenguinPower said in another game I think his trajectory can quite easily be scum. Game dynamics make him feel like a better elimination than Flea right now. They both kind of feel like "this slot will never truly be all that readable" votes but, my understanding of the modern world is that it is actually possible to townread N_M. And if it is possible to do so, then this game is distinctly not something where it's really justifiable to do so right now.

I do agree with this, I don't really think N_M is as unreadable as he's often meme'd to be and there's been no re-evaluating or participating at all from him here as soon as the game got dense

@Gamma am I allowed to reverse on my D1 townread and vote N_M or no

[Dwlee99]

viewtopic.php?p=12909587#p12909587

Here's a link to what I'm talking about with me being accused of OMGUS

[Gamma Emerald]

Pooky is doing pooky things, cautious town for now.

what's your read on MURDERCAT?

I literally asked about in the post that prompted that :/

[GuiltyLion]

whoops I meant to include that and just snip the quoted posts above, bc fae was dodging giving a read on MC. The fact that there's no engagement with Pooky's MC deathtunnel given a townread on Pooky is suspicious

I was planning to say more about that in a minute and case Flea proper once I was done catching up

[Gamma Emerald]

Ah, that’s valid

[GuiltyLion]

yeah, two leading wagons at pressure refusing to vote one another

i was thinking how dwlee is town because they're not voting flea (and said they don't want to) when fae seems like the most likely counterwagon, then i wanted to vote flea, then i was like, wait if flea doesn't wanna vote dwlee who is faer most likely counterwagon, shouldn't i by the same logic be townreading fae but *then* i was like hang on a second, what would the dragon do here

It's context dependent but my view is that not voting your counterwagon is scummy more often than not - it's always better to flip somebody else over yourself and I think players who townread their CW to the point of avoiding voting it are either afraid of looking too survivalist or afraid of looking bad when their CW flips if it's town

that said I think we're like juuust far enough away from deadline or either wagon being close enough to elimination that I don't think it necessarily applies here

[Dwlee99]

I said gamma's name and he didn't respond wtf

[Dwlee99]

I mean not that I said anything that needed a response but c'mon you could Beetlejuice a little.

[Dwlee99]

Or like ~interact~ with what I said about similarities between Chrono and here.

[GuiltyLion]

actually you know what

I was maybe halfway through laying out reasons to lim Flea today - the main ones being no initiative to engage with Pooky's push on MC indicating no incentive/drive to sort MC, the weird mixture of acknowledging a lack of engagement but effectively OMGUSing slots that are voting faer, and no use of vote or engagement with any of the main wagons of the game

but then as I was re-ISOing I was trying to think about 803 and that post really strikes me as genuine here

Given personal experiences with loved ones with PTSD I can see a lot of faer play making much more sense if their health/state has really been in that condition and I don't think scum would use it to excuse lurky/disengaged play

so I think I just need to reset completely on that read because I got major cold feet as I was writing up the case
you know how like once you start actually trying to write down your reasoning and then you're like wait am I just wrong and full of [Cyrus]
UNVOTE:

[GuiltyLion]

I don't wanna vote Dwlee I still think he's town, he doesn't feel like caught scum

I still think MC meta holds up

bleghhh I wanna vote like N_M or Klick? who's townreading Klick and why?

I wanna look at who's not really substantially engaging at all with the whole MC/Dwlee dynamic

[GuiltyLion]

VOTE: Not_Mafia

sorry Gamma I'm voting my D1 townread

[Gamma Emerald]

@Gamma am I allowed to reverse on my D1 townread and vote N_M or no

By talking about it it’s out there that you’re not really still believing in it, so you do you man

[Gamma Emerald]

I said gamma's name and he didn't respond wtf

That’s because I didn’t get why you directed that at me, I’m not actively pushing you

[northsidegal]

I still think MC meta holds up

mm, i feel like you might be putting too much stock in what sort of seems to be to be a fundamentally weak meta read. if murdercat's pattern of behavior here is replicated across many scum games but only the amount of content posted in one post differs, that seems to me to be sort of a poorly founded reason for a town read.

[Dwlee99]

I said gamma's name and he didn't respond wtf

That’s because I didn’t get why you directed that at me, I’m not actively pushing you

You're shading me though

[GuiltyLion]

I still think MC meta holds up

mm, i feel like you might be putting too much stock in what sort of seems to be to be a fundamentally weak meta read. if murdercat's pattern of behavior here is replicated across many scum games but only the amount of content posted in one post differs, that seems to me to be sort of a poorly founded reason for a town read.

I am considering this, but it's also a trust of Infinity's read there as well to a degree, she initially called it out. And I don't think they're S-S.

Also, can you elaborate more on your stance on limming MURDERCAT today? You don't seem to townread him but you're voting the CW

[northsidegal]

i want to finish fully catching up (really i think i'm only missing like 3 pages, but still) and then maybe even do another quick skim through before really deciding on where i want to go. i feel like i was starting to get confbiased when i last left off my read and i want another look with fresh eyes. i realize that today i basically did nothing to contribute to that, but i've been a bit busy.

i think flea is a pretty effective spot for my vote right now. speaking of, just so you don't miss it, i'd appreciate an answer to 1050, flea – you've talked a lot about the reasons or lackthereof of the people voting you, but i'm not sure i've really seen your conclusions from that.

[cyrus62]

[

vote count 1.13

Dwlee99

(4): MURDERCAT, goats, Infinity 324, PookyTheMagicalBear

Not_Mafia

(4): Not_Mafia, implosion, Dwlee99,GuiltyLion

Flea The magician

(2):,Northsidegal,Datisi,

MURDERCAT

(1): Klick

Not Voting

(2]: Gamma Emerald,Flea The magician

with 13 alive it takes 7 votes to be kicked off the island

day1 ends in (expired on 2021-08-21 16:19:39)

vote count to be made better and fixed when I return home signed Cyrus m.l hart.

[implosion]

do you see what I'm saying though about how I don't think it's likely the second head starts playing without even checking what the other head is doing? I feel a scum!hydra would be more careful than to do that

Nah, I don't really agree. At least I don't find it particularly less likely than the same thing from a town hydra. I think the refusal to talk to the other head is probably more of a "hastily planned hydra" tell than an alignment tell.

I don't wanna vote Dwlee I still think he's town, he doesn't feel like caught scum

strongly this.