Open 823 - To Tell The Truth | Game Over

[T3]

Nah not a townslip. Just me being dumb.

[MegAzumarill]

Not really feeling involved with the discussion so here's where I'm at with the game so far.
Townreads
{ goats, Hockey, Imaginality} - Imaginality gave off some weird vibes D1 with T3, but they seem to be scumhunting since, goats and Hockey have pretty reasonable with their arguements the whole game through, exception being Hockey and NM, but thats NAI at worst.
Null:
{T3, NM} T3 plays too chaotically for me to go through the headache of me figuring them out. After trying I'd put them as a townlean since they seem to be contributing positively. N_M has basically trolled the entire game but I figure that's par for the course and NAI.

{ Zyla, Arcangel} ArcAngel seems too be really confused about mechanics that have been clarified on more than one occasion, and they don't seem to be scumhunting very much. Zyla has only interacted with the Arc slot for most of the game and with cyrus. They also have chosen to disclude any game advancing content for most of their posts.

[HockeyFan]

Meg, trust me, N_M is town

[T3]

I blurt whatever I'm thinking out

[MegAzumarill]

I mean I think N_M is a bad lim right now anyway since a red flip would have associatives with only you and a green flip would give basically no info.

[ArcAngel9]

lol arc
VOTE: arc
Either you and nm are both town or both scum, you do realize that.

That's literally not possible T3

See, people are still contradicting. I am town and I know it. I thought the setup reveals one true result and one false result after D1.
Hence, Town claim on me is Truth (As i know my faction), Town claim on NM is fasle (makes him scum)

where am I confused on this?

[imaginality]

This set-up reveals one true and one random result each day. The random result has the same chance of returning a guilty as picking any player at random would (37.5% last night since there were 3 scum alive from 8 players total).

So from your "I know I'm town" pov, NM could be either town or scum - the NM result gives no information to you. For the rest of us, we know you and NM definitely aren't scum-buddies but it's still possible for either of you to be scum.

[ArcAngel9]

This set-up reveals one true and one random result each day. The random result has the same chance of returning a guilty as picking any player at random would (37.5% last night since there were 3 scum alive from 8 players total).

So from your "I know I'm town" pov, NM could be either town or scum - the NM result gives no information to you. For the rest of us, we know you and NM definitely aren't scum-buddies but it's still possible for either of you to be scum.

now that's how you explain this shit. Good work

So NM may be town or scum.

Then we should eliminate the opportunist scum Hockey!

VOTE: Hockey

[imaginality]

Anyone want to join me on a Zyla wagon? Or at least give their views on my Zyla case?

Literally everyone has posted since then and no one's directly commented on it.

[imaginality]

Then we should eliminate the opportunist scum Hockey!

What's your reason for calling Hockey opportunist?

[ArcAngel9]

Then we should eliminate the opportunist scum Hockey!

What's your reason for calling Hockey opportunist?

because of these!!

Spoiler:

no? If we get Player X and Player Y. and Player x's role is innocent, and they get a true result, they will be annouced as town. However, lets say we roll a 6 on the 1VX(number of mafia), Players Y's role will be announced as town even if they are mafia so we do we really have confirms? I could just be stupid

Wont X elimination confirms that Y result was untrue.

Elimination does reveal their rule faction isn't it?

If X gets eliminated, it confirms that X's result was true, it does *not* confirm that Y's result was false.
Since "X is innocent" is true, that means that "X is innocent or ..." is true regardless of what comes after the or

My only question is what happens if both results are false

We are complicating it. It is simple

D1 reveals the identity of two players - One of it is True and the other is false. Eliminate one and the other gets confirmed.

N_M is town

Too soon to say!

T3 is scum

Way too soon to speculate!

T3 is scum

I was going to say this but he has to roll town in at least one game right? :^). or idk he could be scum for voting N_M the locktowned

The possibility of a rolling town is more than rolling scum.

my rat died the other week.

What? Is there context to this?

maybe shouldn't spam submit, no wonder it was lagging

Okay.

VOTE: goals

We got a cow for this, no need of a goat.

This whole post is ew imo. Its a bunch of discrediting of reads because "iTs tOO eArLy"

VOTE: arcangel

Wait wtf cyrus might be town?

VOTE: goates

T3 what are you doing and why are you like this. I dont understand the pattern of your votes

VOTE: arcangel

Wait wtf cyrus might be town?

What about this vote makes him towny?

It was more of the idea in my head that "hey, cyrus also sees angel's latest post as scummy"(same thought process as me), he might be town!. Ofc its too early to lock him in as hard town but i think he can be a good TL to start off with

[ArcAngel9]

Then we should eliminate the opportunist scum Hockey!

What's your reason for calling Hockey opportunist?

because of these!!

Spoiler:

no? If we get Player X and Player Y. and Player x's role is innocent, and they get a true result, they will be annouced as town. However, lets say we roll a 6 on the 1VX(number of mafia), Players Y's role will be announced as town even if they are mafia so we do we really have confirms? I could just be stupid

Wont X elimination confirms that Y result was untrue.

Elimination does reveal their rule faction isn't it?

If X gets eliminated, it confirms that X's result was true, it does *not* confirm that Y's result was false.
Since "X is innocent" is true, that means that "X is innocent or ..." is true regardless of what comes after the or

My only question is what happens if both results are false

We are complicating it. It is simple

D1 reveals the identity of two players - One of it is True and the other is false. Eliminate one and the other gets confirmed.

N_M is town

Too soon to say!

T3 is scum

Way too soon to speculate!

T3 is scum

I was going to say this but he has to roll town in at least one game right? :^). or idk he could be scum for voting N_M the locktowned

The possibility of a rolling town is more than rolling scum.

my rat died the other week.

What? Is there context to this?

maybe shouldn't spam submit, no wonder it was lagging

Okay.

VOTE: goals

We got a cow for this, no need of a goat.

This whole post is ew imo. Its a bunch of discrediting of reads because "iTs tOO eArLy"

VOTE: arcangel

Wait wtf cyrus might be town?

VOTE: goates

T3 what are you doing and why are you like this. I dont understand the pattern of your votes

VOTE: arcangel

Wait wtf cyrus might be town?

What about this vote makes him towny?

It was more of the idea in my head that "hey, cyrus also sees angel's latest post as scummy"(same thought process as me), he might be town!. Ofc its too early to lock him in as hard town but i think he can be a good TL to start off with

[HockeyFan]

Anyone want to join me on a Zyla wagon? Or at least give their views on my Zyla case?

Literally everyone has posted since then and no one's directly commented on it.

I skimmed over the Zyla case and while it may hold some merit, Im waiting for Zyla to comment on it. The only thing I dont get from that post is how you find 59 -> 62 scummy

[HockeyFan]

Then we should eliminate the opportunist scum Hockey!

What's your reason for calling Hockey opportunist?

because of these!!

Spoiler:

no? If we get Player X and Player Y. and Player x's role is innocent, and they get a true result, they will be annouced as town. However, lets say we roll a 6 on the 1VX(number of mafia), Players Y's role will be announced as town even if they are mafia so we do we really have confirms? I could just be stupid

Wont X elimination confirms that Y result was untrue.

Elimination does reveal their rule faction isn't it?

If X gets eliminated, it confirms that X's result was true, it does *not* confirm that Y's result was false.
Since "X is innocent" is true, that means that "X is innocent or ..." is true regardless of what comes after the or

My only question is what happens if both results are false

We are complicating it. It is simple

D1 reveals the identity of two players - One of it is True and the other is false. Eliminate one and the other gets confirmed.

N_M is town

Too soon to say!

T3 is scum

Way too soon to speculate!

T3 is scum

I was going to say this but he has to roll town in at least one game right? :^). or idk he could be scum for voting N_M the locktowned

The possibility of a rolling town is more than rolling scum.

my rat died the other week.

What? Is there context to this?

maybe shouldn't spam submit, no wonder it was lagging

Okay.

VOTE: goals

We got a cow for this, no need of a goat.

This whole post is ew imo. Its a bunch of discrediting of reads because "iTs tOO eArLy"

VOTE: arcangel

Wait wtf cyrus might be town?

VOTE: goates

T3 what are you doing and why are you like this. I dont understand the pattern of your votes

VOTE: arcangel

Wait wtf cyrus might be town?

What about this vote makes him towny?

It was more of the idea in my head that "hey, cyrus also sees angel's latest post as scummy"(same thought process as me), he might be town!. Ofc its too early to lock him in as hard town but i think he can be a good TL to start off with

dont see how any of these quotes are opportunist but ok?

First post- You basically said "its too soon to say" on both of the 2 real/gut reads(discrediting these reads)

Second Post- HOW IS THAT OPPURTUNIST LOL? I called cyrus town for voting my sus(which is normal). I also asked t3 wtf he was doing voting wise cuz he was jumping too much

Third Post- I explained /why/ I thought cyrus was town.

Again, I dont see how any of these posts can be classified as opportunist

[ArcAngel9]

the posts i quoted were your initial reads which didn't have basis or reasons to suspect at all.

I am calling you an opportunist that you're basing on a basis which had none in it.

[MegAzumarill]

Post 1 was pretty clearly calling out the blatant chainsawing.
Post 3 gave the reasoning for post 2.

It's pretty clear he had some basis for those calls, especially since he wasn't holding them with a whole lot of weight at the time.

[HockeyFan]

the posts i quoted were your initial reads which didn't have basis or reasons to suspect at all.

I am calling you an opportunist that you're basing on a basis which had none in it.

Nor did you have a basis to denounce/discredit these reads?

[Zyla]

Apologies for the delay, school got busier than expected, but I've gotten settled and should be back to regular availability

On my re-read I found Zyla and find her posts about cyrus/T3 interesting. Especially cyrus. I'd previously had a vague town-lean on her but when I did a deeper read this is what I noticed:

VOTE: Cyrus.
Anyone can read that, and there's only vanilla roles any way, there's no point in it even if it were some master code

A weak reason to vote cyrus. That's absolutely fair enough, since it was early on D1. What's of note is that her vote never moves after this. So if Zyla's town, either she found stronger reasons to keep her vote on cyrus (if so, what?) or she never had any better reason to vote anyone else?

The second one is correct

VOTE: arcangel

Wait wtf cyrus might be town?

What about this vote makes him towny?

Hockey answered Zyla, saying it was because cyrus scumread ArcAngel. Zyla said:

Oh yeah. I don't think I've ever actually managed to hit scum first time so I forgot it was possible xD

Can't quite pin down why but something about this post gives me a gut feel that Zyla knows ArcAngel's alignment one way or another.

I'm confused to what those two posts have to do with each other at all

N_M, why are u doing this to me smfh, pls dont claim scum when I tr u

It's Not_Mafia, this is just how they play.
Honestly, it's pretty frustrating

In response to NM asking why cyrus crumbed VT:

It's Cyrus

If Zyla was voting cyrus for the crumbing (ie basically for his play style), why cyrus and not NM whose playstyle she describes as 'pretty frustrating'? This makes me doubt the genuineness of the continued cyrus vote.

I do find Cyrus to be frustrating, but whether or not NM is frustrating to play with, I've also heard good things about NM's scumhunting ability, whereas the games I've been in Cyrus have not given me the same trust in his abilities. So if my vote were based on who I didn't want to play with, of those two it wouldn't be NM

discrediting everyone here aka chainsawing.and whiteknighting.

I don't know what chainsawing is, but WKing is defending people, and "too early to call them scum" is way to weak a defense to call it that.
Angel's post was scummy to me, but that's because she was dismissing Hockey and your (Cyrus) reads rather than trying to

discuss

them, not because she was 'whiteknighting'

Zyla's calling Angel scummy but criticising cyrus for how he made the same point. This leads to a discussion of semantics:

so you think arc is scum too?

I find her post to be suspicious, yes
But atm I'm interested in what your definitions of those terms are

I find it suspicious that Zyla was focusing on the semantics rather than either: looking for substantive reasons to either confirm her read on cyrus or clear him, or looking at other players to see if she could find a stronger scumread.

When cyrus answered Zyla in post 202, Zyla didn't respond to him. Was this desire for clarification just an excuse to continue to keep her vote on him?

I was partially focusing on the exact word choice, yes, it seemed a little buzzy, especially since I didn't agree that it was strong enough for the words to be accurate. I touched on this lightly in 183

Can we please take me off NM-1.
I'm slightly paranoid

You've got 44 hours, I'd suggest giving us a reason to vote someone else, not focusing on yourself.

Also, if anyone's confused, NM likes to quickhammer, so E1 is effectively a hammer in a game he's in

Feels like Zyla either saw T3 as scummy or didn't care whether he was eliminated or not. If the latter, that's suspicious (especially if T3 turns out to be town). If the former, why didn't she voice any suspicions of him earlier?

An alternate take on the "I'd suggest giving us a reason to vote someone else" is scum coaching, which perhaps is boosted by the fact she says that even though her vote isn't on him. This might be a stretch but at the very least I don't think a Zyla scum flip would make T3 any more likely to be town.

When T3 does offer an alternative:

cyrus, vote him by meta.

Not really sure what meta you're meaning tbh

Again this sort of feels to me like Zyla not really caring about which one of T3 or cyrus gets eliminated. Considering her vote was on cyrus at the time this is a pretty lukewarm response to T3.

I mean, I preferred Cyrus as the one to get eliminated, but T3 wasn't looking particularly towny to me, so I would've been fine with him too, yes. As far as 'scumcoaching', if I were a scum partner, why would I say this in the main thread instead of the mafia thread, that just seems illogical to me

I'm good where I am for now, you're one of my top suspects so I don't mind if you get eliminated

Zyla, what was it that made cyrus "one of your top suspects"? Aside from cyrus and ArcAngel, did you have other "top suspects" at that time? Was T3 one of your top suspects at the time of post 200?

Do you have any town reads?

T3 was my other major suspicion. As for town reads, Hockey is looking towny to me, mostly by meta from our previous game.

[T3]

Ugh kinda overgamed and busy
Zyla's posts sound townie.

[HockeyFan]

Meg/Arc seems like way too easy of a solve lol but idrk who else can be mafia? maybe t3? I was mainly tring him based on gut/vibes not on his actual content

[T3]

Scum me is very very serious and town me is chaotic.

[Zyla]

Scum me is very very serious and town me is chaotic.

See, the problem with this is that since you know this about yourself, it's not a valid tell.
In one of my previous games, someone mentioned that I use the word "Honest" in about half my posts when I'm playing scum. Since I know this about my posting, I know to be careful to not use it much as scum, and potentially should be more liberal with my usage of it in town games.
If you know that you're chaotic as town, that's reason for you to try and be chaotic as scum.

[T3]

fair, fair

[goats]

-Eats cheese- hi

[HockeyFan]

t3, whats your gun to head solve