mini normal 2226; who won

[Prism]

UNVOTE:

Given 610 and Meg's relative inexperience-why is this slot even on the table?

I will be reading over the game tomorrow and perhaps can answer my own question then.

[Prism]

Good timing.

[Prism]

Why did you want to hammer to begin with T3?

I was watching a movie but after pacing for a week excited to play maybe I'll just start reading now, 50/50

[Prism]

Want to vote Datisi but will holdoff until catchup. Instinctually this page is enough for a dayvig between 600's weird tone w/ MathBlade & the sequence quoted in 601. Latter is more striking, comes off as playing hard with intent to shove through as opposed to legitimate questioning.

[Prism]

I'm phoning it in for this game. Normal games don't have the same zest as other games, it feels like, so I'm unsure why I threw myself in here.

I'm comfortable with the townpool of T3/Datisi/Lukewarm/Ari (Her posting improved once I saw more for her. Someone prodded her on a read on someone I don't remember, but it didn't feel as if it was something she made up). Thinking about Titus some; from a glance at a recent scum game, she went hard after her partners. It doesn't feel like she's doing that this game and unless she has at least 1 partner in the townpool I'm inclined to believe she's town from that as well.

Chaos's vote being parked on Flubber feels strange. I feel as if he's abandoned (at least somewhat) pressing there in favor of calling out other slots as weird. But keeping his vote parked on Flubber while having another growing wagon (Meg) and acknowledging her as weird feels as if Chaos doesn't want to vote a partner and wants to go for a miselim on Flubber.

VOTE: MegAzumarill.

This, however, depends on Meg flipping scum. And given that Meg sounds awkward, fine to vote there regardless.

Consider playing the game again; feel free to expound on Meg as a springboard.

Sincerely hoping that refusing to play the game is not a towntell, but all signs point to it being one.

[Prism]

I'm probably going to take a different approach this time around with my catchup and work through ISOs first rather than reading the game holistically immediately (will still do so afterwards)

Not really thrilled with Lukewarm ISO on skim. Realtime interaction is lacking a bit+clearly improvised at points rather than something he's been chewing on only to finally be given voice.

[Prism]

I just went to ISO the competing wagon only to realize it is me.

Nice.

[Prism]

I'll be back tomorrow but I'm happy to see 623 and 630, Vulture.

[Prism]

Vulture, I'm very curious about your townread on Lukewarm.

To be blunt, I do not like your ISO, which is perhaps to be expected but it is how I feel nonetheless. Scum are heavily incentivized to play lower key Day 1/2 if they can get away with it.

[Prism]

To be clear, that isn't the reason I dislike your ISO. I dislike your ISO because of the Luke TR+vote on Meg. That's a counterpoint to my own line of thinking on your lack of motivation.

[Prism]

Vulture, I'm very curious about your townread on Lukewarm.

To be blunt, I do not like your ISO, which is perhaps to be expected but it is how I feel nonetheless. Scum are heavily incentivized to play lower key Day 1/2 if they can get away with it.

How do you like 623 and 630 and then say you don’t like Vulture’s ISO?

What stands out to you?

This seems to contradict your prior post.

Someone is eager to go in for the kill, glad I was already typing that up.

Yours will be the last ISO I visit but this was a valid question and if you're town I hope we wind up working together more cleanly than in our last. I will do all that I can to rein in the level of tilt I had in Warehouse.

[Prism]

VOTE: Lukewarm

Might swap tomorrow but feel very comfortable leaving this overnight.

If I post again tonight someone light my router on fire

[Prism]

I know you said you’re doing the ISO thing but some things probably won’t make sense in a vaccuum.

I'll read the whole game front to back regardless but I rarely read ISOs even later, and discussions with petapan have made me very interested in giving it a try at the start rather than just lategame.

I apologize if the approach winds up being frustrating.

[Prism]

I do not really buy this.

First, to directly answer your question, yes it is. I recall several times in Forest Fire where your thoughts in response to questions were both complex & well-reasoned even if wrong, and usually given with quick turnaround. Compare this to 259, where you are noticeably building the thoughts as you go. This is not a general scumtell, but the contrast immediately stuck out to me and it bothered me that Vulture gave a townlean on you.

My vote came in seeing that you were posting elsewhere, and you have been akin to a puppy in your eagerness to interact with certain players you respect. Perhaps I didn't earn yours in Forest Fire? You waited to post until I am in bed/supposed to be gone for the night were I not an addict, and the bewilderment is bothersome to me as you directly quoted Forest Fire and I was pretty explicit both that game with the specific behaviors I saw as town+why I found them lacking here.

[Prism]

I will give the disclaimer that I have been very haphazard with wanting to watch Lady Bird and eagerness to redeem myself after Trust Fall, and I might have a different interpretation on a more organized/comprehensive revisit in the morning.

[Prism]

(I can easily see your ISO before my replace-in going either way; I am significantly more intrigued by why it took me voting you to get you to show up)

[Prism]

Okay, FINISH MOVIE

GO TO SLEEP

NO MORE

[Prism]

Posting elsewhere was what I was referencing+prompted the vote, will revisit timeline later. I appreciate the responses in any case.

[Prism]

Will respond to the rest later as I start waking up but Datisi I would like you to be more specific/actually engaging with the substance of my response.

My reason for defending the slot is very straightforward. The post asking to talk/discuss reads more before hammering is something I have a hard time seeing from newer scum despite the incentive existing. If you think I'm scum okay but consider humoring me.

I do not appreciate the two posts from Datisi/Aristia calling me scum for dueling wagon speculative associatives. I will hold my more acerbic comments. I have a sneaking suspicion that Meg flipping town will not earn me a townread, which is fair, but focus on one player at a time.

[Prism]

[[Other line about my entrance not making sense]

610 was posted 9 minutes before Prism's post.

It feels like Prism is stating that it is unthinkable that we are even considering Meg as an elimination option due to 610.

This is silly because

1) 610 was just posted - nobody even has had a chance to respond to it.
2) Prism has just replaced in and has no idea why we are voting Meg nor a real read on her.

There is an edge here that feels like an agenda to me. I don't think Town!Prism would enter the thread with this much certainty.

There are multiple reasons to pursue a snapread,: First, replacements are incredibly annoying as scum an my entrance immediately puts pressure to justify things that otherwise get left for free, and this should be capitalized on immediately. Second, it being very fast does not mean it is not a real read, and these snapreads have been increasingly useful to me over the last calendar year even if the initial accuracy varies by caliber of player.

The more urgent concern was T3 threatening a hammer on a townread.

[Prism]

I feel like there are way easier people to try and pivot the thread onto

Why not go after Chaos? Or Vulture? Or Umlaut? Or Titus? Or you?

Those all seem like easier people to pivot to then me, right?

why do it the easy way if the hard way gets you townread and allows you better positioning to take thread control?

you are making an assumption about Prism wanting to do things the easy way.

The hypothetical point of shoving Lukewarm would have been to get a townread from him over the course of several real life days. Again, this is within range. I think his response was decent.

Bit about me not taking the easy way is a way off, I am very laid back/minimal effort as scum if I can get away with it but the caveat always applies.

I don't think there is anything else to respond to about me. My strategy would depend heavily on who my specific partners are. I am good at establishing thread control as scum. I am also very intentional, verbose, and demanding as town.

[Prism]

[[Other line about my entrance not making sense]

610 was posted 9 minutes before Prism's post.

It feels like Prism is stating that it is unthinkable that we are even considering Meg as an elimination option due to 610.

This is silly because

1) 610 was just posted - nobody even has had a chance to respond to it.
2) Prism has just replaced in and has no idea why we are voting Meg nor a real read on her.

There is an edge here that feels like an agenda to me. I don't think Town!Prism would enter the thread with this much certainty.

There are multiple reasons to pursue a snapread,: First, replacements are incredibly annoying as scum an my entrance immediately puts pressure to justify things that otherwise get left for free, and this should be capitalized on immediately. Second, it being very fast does not mean it is not a real read, and these snapreads have been increasingly useful to me over the last calendar year even if the initial accuracy varies by caliber of player.

The more urgent concern was T3 threatening a hammer on a townread.

When you unvote it becomes e-2 so the hammer is not an issue.

You can simply ask us to hold up for 2-3 days in order to give you time to reread the thread

Inmediately snapreading off one post the consensus lead wagon and using 610/megs relative inexperience to say she shouldnt be even on the table reads as very manipulative to me esp if you haven't even read the game.

This completely ignores my more aggressive tendencies. I can & do slow down when I want to but there are times even as town when you should be direct, vocal, and fast.

[Prism]

Want to vote Datisi but will holdoff until catchup. Instinctually this page is enough for a dayvig between 600's weird tone w/ MathBlade & the sequence quoted in 601. Latter is more striking, comes off as playing hard with intent to shove through as opposed to legitimate questioning.

what about my tone is weird? and what is wrong with my questioning? or rather a better question would be, have you read the things i was questioning?

I didn't like the more ingratiating approach with MathBlade. There is town incentive there to be so direct/accomodating but I remembered a more paranoid Datisi from ye olden days. The tone is the weaker part of this and I put little stock in it. If you didn't consider it more ingratiating then okay.

My reason for defending the slot is very straightforward. The post asking to talk/discuss reads more before hammering is something I have a hard time seeing from newer scum despite the incentive existing.

you should maybe look at the slot's prior post before judging that one, because it was mostly getting grilled for providing poor/surface-level analysis, and it was obvious that people wanted "more proper analysis" from them - why is the asking for more time unlikely to come from a newbie? (and besides, i don't think meg is a newbie anyway, they said they played elsewhere and seem to be well versed in reasonings to read someone a certain way or the lingo or whatever)

Fair criticism, will do & circle back. Luke also requested this of me.

I do not appreciate the two posts from Datisi/Aristia calling me scum for dueling wagon speculative associatives. I will hold my more acerbic comments.

does this mean you don't like it or that you find it scummy? i can understand the first one, regardless of your/meg's alignment really, but i'm gonna need some very good justification if you're trying to say you find it scummy.

I meant the former. I did not appreciate my question being outright ignored for a preflip on your end and by fear on Aristia's.

Alignment wise I did not like it until I realized you weren't likely intentionally dodging my question but we more genuinely curious as to what it meant for me, at which point I changed my post to accommodate that. Probably within range but eh.

[Prism]

Bit about me not taking the easy way is a way off, I am very laid back/minimal effort as scum if I can get away with it but the caveat always applies.

I don't think there is anything else to respond to about me. My strategy would depend heavily on who my specific partners are. I am good at establishing thread control as scum. I am also very intentional, verbose, and demanding as town.

I think your town game is more marked by questioning and doubt.

You've been burned in the past by derailing a runaway bandwagon on scum before and you'd need significantly more evidence than a one post snap-read to try to do it here.

You demand the best from yourself and your team.

I don't think you/meg can get away with playing passively here, if meg flips red it will look very suspicious why she didn't try at all to vote/push an alternative, it casts suspicion onto the Altwagon which is you.

I think you went with the method of attack that had the best odds of resetting the narrative and taking control of the thread. I don't believe town!you does that here with no information coming in cold to a game.

I absolutely have been burned by bad reads and my own aggressiveness, yet a cursory glance of my recent meta will reveal I am more aggressive than ever. I am wrong and I am wrong like clockwork, and I may be on Meg as well.

Casting my play this game as not marked by questioning & doubt is willfully blind. Go revisit and think how I am leveraging the snapreads/ISOs.

[Prism]

My point is directly that I do believe it makes sense to play this way, see: above posts with Datisi. If it doesn't get me better reads, then okay, but I am intentional with my play and this game is no exception.

I am fine ceding the point that I plausibly go this aggressive as scum.

[Prism]

I can wax on about my takeaways from the last X games in conjunction with preexisting ideas but I'm going to skip it.

[Prism]

Eh, I wasn't angry at all. The point is to immediately put pressure on people to make mistakes/justify something they find difficult to.

[Prism]

It also might be worth noting that as scum I would have 100% have already read the entire game before replace-in. I do not post without knowing exactly what is going on and why.

[Prism]

FWIW I'm still chewing on what this means for Aristia but this is an impressive performance if it is scum. The meta is off but not obviously malicious.

[Prism]

The behavior/approach itself is what I found town even if there's scum incentive. I would not townread more experienced players for the same behavior.

I will grab you backlinks of me playing exactly this way as town if you insist.

[Prism]

It also might be worth noting that as scum I would have 100% have already read the entire game before replace-in. I do not post without knowing exactly what is going on and why.

This is just self!meta.

I think scum you relishes the oppurtunity to crush towns.

The worse the starting position the more delicious the turnaround.

Also with T3 threatening intent to hammer and Meg being like all "you can kill me it's not a problem" there doesn't really exist the premium of time for you to take a full re-read.

You have to make a move that hits the game state hard like a meteor in order to take thread control, reshape the narrative and get things moving for your side again.

Okay. There is nothing for me to respond here to as town. I can backlink excerpts from Perpetual, Forest Fire, and Trust Tell later when I am not on my phone, but I suspect this will not be resolved until I am flipped one way or another.

[Prism]

prism, did you miss my 694 or am i blind?

I am on a phone and can make one post at a time, give me a bit and I'll set up my laptop and actually start reading the game again.

[Prism]

i can see my tone seeming like that, but that is just How I Talk and if this game turns into me having to dig ten billion meta examples of me Talking Like That i am gonna scream. though i'm not sure how you remembering

a more paranoid datisi makes you ease up on that read?

and sorry, what question was i avoiding there?

The more paranoid/offset Datisi was my original "This post to MathBlade is weird?" The paranoid/offset Datisi kicks in the opposite direction when he is more concerned about my alignment/SvS wagons than afraid of me.

Question was about Meg, which I wanted you to rehash to me specifically even though at this point I've kind of shown my hand.

[Prism]

also, uh, you talk about "good scum wouldn't do that", and maybe (maybe!) that's true, but i haven't seen proof that either flubber or meg are exceptionally good at scum (no offense, i'm shit at scum too). so i don't see how that invalidates what i said?

and besides, literally all i said was "if the two leading wagons aren't voting each other, they're more likely to both be scum", why is this suddenly someting that "decent scum" doesn't do?

Is this to me or to MathBlade? If it's the former there's a big miscommunication here.

[Prism]

I don't see how your play from games where you are town would serve as a counterfactual for what I'm saying about scum!you's play in a game state where your scum partner is in imminent danger.

A proper counter-example would be scum!you replacing into a game where a partner is about to get eliminated on d1 with hammer intent already on the table and your slot having voted the player in question in an awkward way.

That's a fairly narrow condition set so I kind of doubt you would have a relevant example to cite.

I don't expect you to come up with a counter example, it would be unfair of me to put that burden on you.

I am simply laying out the relevant reasons for scum!you not to do a re-read but be forced to immediately enter thread and fight. I am doing this to counter your self!meta that scum!you would not come in cold.

I recognize why you're pressing this, both to try and pressure me and to counter the fear of thread control. I would consider that both pressure/thread control are priorities for me as town, too, especially in a world where Datisi doesn't look good at a glance. I would really, really like to drop this and read the thread in the meantime. I've restrained myself & will continue to do so but some of my drafts were uncomfortably vicious. If I'm right and Meg is town we can debate that/a proposed counter without you giving thread to me entirely, or if I think I'm wrong we can just flip them.

I have a meeting in 20 so it'll likely take time and I honestly need a bit to cool off regardless.

[Prism]

And to be clear, since you're so familiar with my meta: I don't like to be a dictator or have the game completely revolve around me, but I absolutely do not like sitting by idly in any scenario.

[Prism]

I might be setting the bar too low for Aristeia town but either way it's time to do something else.

Going to try reading ISOs working Meg -> Datisi -> probably Chaos unless I strike something in the meantime? I might swap to cover-to-cover but I really don't want to.

[Prism]

Meg:

I feel the drama with flubber is being taken pretty harshly to what resulted from mostly RVS discussion.

VOTE: Titus

Titus is my RVS vote, I don't think they have done much either way yet. I don't see a reason to change it until I SR someone else.

Titus: doesn’t seem super concerned with exactly who is limmed, which seems townie (as I suspect there are 1 or more scum outside of their townblock) but doesn’t seem to provide a good flow of logic into the game, slight townread

Can you discuss more explicitly how you arrived at this initial vote given your later townlean? You're saying RVS but I want to know what the thought process was, if there was one.

[Prism]

I can see why this slot got scumread for the early vague reads/general lack of proactivity. Even the later followups are overly simplistic and I now...have a lot more empathy for why Datisi asked so many questions about them line-by-line rather than just letting them sit.

On a first pass though I think this slot is still a townlean/a tossup. The read on Alchemist from 284 to 314 makes sense, and I kind of liked the contrast in the below. Originally it set off an alarm but after chewing on it for a bit I understand.

Aristeia: posts little content, but still shows they are following the game closely in 184, strong townread
ChaosOmega: keeps posts long, fairly thoroughly analyses conversations, doesn’t actively push his reads out, weak townread

It won't blow my mind if any of this is fake, but I think this game+610 are very par for the course for a newer town player. Meg isn't completely new but I think the inexperience still shows.

To be blunt this vote is a tossup to me and I'm not really a fan. I read Datisi 463 and can really see him pushing this as either alignment.

[Prism]

Vulture: on 2 occasions (me and flubber) added to a large wagon without providing thoughts of said wagon, very few reads given until very recently, Scumread

Honestly it feels like vulture hasn’t received enough pressure after their putting flubber at E-1. Especially after Chaos ended up doing the same before, with a much less meaningful vote.

VOTE: Vulture

I also really did not like this vote because it comes off as a basic deflection but again I can see it.

Might circle back around when I go through everyone else.

[Prism]

I skimmed through the ISOs after my first skim of the game, found one that wasn't being actively pressured and didn't have a lot of posts and voted that one.

I was V/LA at the time and didn't have time to do a thorough look through of the game.

I'm curious as to why you didn't vote one of the people pressuring my slot if you felt that way about the early Flubber pages.

[Prism]

Trying to read ISOs/work backwards for context is also a giant mess but I'm going to persist and ask for forgiveness.

[Prism]

I stared at Datisi ISO but Datisi isn't a brick and I will actually need context to read this slot, that or very divergent meta. Will circle back.

[Prism]

UNVOTE:

Probably going to go Chaos -> Gamma -> read whole game. Will be shocked if I don't have hardreads on Lukewarm/Vulture/Gamma by the end of it.

[Prism]

On the bright side at least I'm not tunneling you for playing 20 questions while shoving, and I really expected to.

[Prism]

I am not ceding my right to do so later btw, you are still ON NOTICE

[Prism]

Not really thrilled with the Chaos ISO. Reasoning is pretty basic+tonally I don't like 110's comment on T3.

I'm trying to sort Seanzie. The vibe he gives off is like he's super serious right off the jump, the Flubber wagon was the biggest thing to happen in the game up to this point, and he didn't comment on it, which seemed odd to me.

As for other reads I have, Umlaut,

Seanzie

, Vulture, and Datisi for town, something about Gamma is pinging me, but I can't really put it into words, so I'm ignoring it for now, still think Flubber is scum, the push on Seanzie and his post about mindmelding w/ Titus reads phony.

These being in the same post are pretty ??? even if I can kind of connect the dots.

Really want more from the slot+we have the time to wait for it.

[Prism]

The back and forth with Lukewarm I feel like I need more context for, but in general Chaos I think you'd benefit a lot more here from more aggressively pursuing your reads. I don't get why you're both so intentional in your posts/responses but also staying sidelined, this is the worst of both worlds.

[Prism]

For Chaos, 2007 join date means this is likely stylistic, but posting more doesn't mean you have to hyperpost like me/several others. It's just very hard both to push successfully & get a gauge on you if you're playing in such an isolated/quarantined way, and there is a healthy medium here.

Right now it just feels like you're passively pushing the pet scumread without really investing the energy/personal vulnerability to sell it.

[Prism]

UNVOTE:

Probably going to go Chaos -> Gamma -> read whole game. Will be shocked if I don't have hardreads on Lukewarm/Vulture/Gamma by the end of it.

Good. I hope our reads match there but I hope you get a townlean on Gamma and Lukewarm. If you trust me, please do so.

Given our, uh, previous track record for matching up (Warehouse/Happy Face as willow) I wouldn't hold my breath but this is a New Game and There Is Hope

[Prism]

Looking at 762 I take it back Titus, maybe this is The Game

[Prism]

I'm still going to be reading over the next day or so but I'm going to let the game breathe for a bit. Ideally I find a scumread but I'm more comfortable with the game+pacing now.

Really want more from Vulture even though I don't think I need it for their alignment.

[Prism]

I did not, I have been eager for any game at all and this was the first playerlist I found even vaguely playable. See: My hyperposting/aggression in Coalition before I was forced to replaceout.

What Aristeia is commenting on is my general attitude towards games, that of an obsessive perfectionist, but is wrong in arguing that this approach prevents me from starting very aggressive/headstrong as town. I am very eager to grow and take risks as town: I am relentless as town, but am an absolute perfectionist as scum. I will spend days and weeks puzzling over reads & how to get the most of players as town, but as scum I am an absolute control freak who can't stand losing. If I am scum I 100% have read this game already and am pretending not to. While a counterfactual, any glance over my scumgames will confirm this as it dates back years and is always mentioned in notes PT/postgames.

The above linked Coalition is also where my suspicion on a Vulture-tell derives, unfortunately you (Gamma) came out strong early this game and thus will not have the hydra-specific tell he did in Coalition.

[Prism]

Unfortunately Coalition doesn't actually dive further into why Vulture's lack of caring is AI but tl;dr: they're the reverse Bell and I will get vicious if I go further but it's a townlean

[Prism]

i can see my tone seeming like that, but that is just How I Talk and if this game turns into me having to dig ten billion meta examples of me Talking Like That i am gonna scream. though i'm not sure how you remembering

a more paranoid datisi makes you ease up on that read?

and sorry, what question was i avoiding there?

The more paranoid/offset Datisi was my original "This post to MathBlade is weird?"

The paranoid/offset Datisi kicks in the opposite direction when he is more concerned about my alignment/SvS wagons than afraid of me.

The more I think about this, the better I feel about it. I think a scum Datisi does not have a very good time upon seeing me replace-in, and that pressure would weigh a lot more heavily than it did on him here.

Does anyone disagree with Datisi-town here?

[Prism]

I also really don't think Aristeia goes this far out of their way against me Day 1 as scum. There's SvS shenanigans with burning a tell+wanting me out but there's really no point; just let me lead on town Day 1 then go on me Day 2. Perhaps I'm wrong and them being this serious is a scumtell. I'm also bothered by the linkage between me/Meg given how tenuous Meg being scum is to begin with, but oversold confidence is part of the schtick.

This one is more likely to burn me than Datisi but again I feel good about it. If anyone has a more solid read on the slot let me know.

I don't know how to feel about Lukewarm without the whole game. I thought he was threaddodging but it is unfair to expect him to revisit this game before posting in the others. I just expected an instant response+a followup later.

[Prism]

Really hoping for more from Chaos soon, but I'm actually really pleased with how this general approach to the game has worked so far. At least before I get the pie in my face.

[Prism]

I am good with Datisi Town going to have to catch up with his responses after work. I think his logic/reads/tells are flawed but I don’t think he’s scum for it.

I really appreciate you answering this; I know I've ignored your slot so far+will surely do so again at times but I promise I will do my best to get to your broader view of the game sooner rather than later. I'm glad you're still willing to dialogue with me post-Warehouse regardless of alignment.

I am curious as to why Datisi is town over null for you.

[Prism]

Won't really have time today; will try to make time tomorrow/Wednesday as Thurs-Sun I have wedding festivities to attend. I'm sure it won't change a fucking thing and I'll be checking in every 5 minutes but I can dream.

[Prism]

Me circa 2020: "Datisi has typed 200,000 words of complex and consistent reasoning. I am on my seventh reread and see no flaws-but darkness surely lurks somewhere. I must begin anew. From scratch. From nothing."
Me circa 2021:

puts on cowboy hat

"Hot damn Datisi ignored a question, gotta be town let's ride boyz."

Aristeia you can fit here too except you're more copying a Farkran scumgame and I really should be more concerned about it than I am

[Prism]

At some point I'll go over Aristeia scumgames but for now I Choose To Believe and if it's planned I'm gonna scream

[Prism]

Big talk for someone who isn't willing to vote me individually!

You going to think through your proposed scenario and realize my alignment actually doesn't hinge at all on Meg's at all or do I have to treat you like Hectic and do it for you? Prefer to vote the coinflip?

[Prism]

On a more serious note while I think the preflip is garbage & you have the motivation wrong there are other ways to sort this. Leverage mech/flips and revisit if needed.

[Prism]

I hate to go all righty on you but Facts Don't Care About Your Feelings

Vulture might sometimes, though.

[Prism]

You do realize if people actually take the time to read what you're typing and think through it they will realize you are just literally repeating Farkran's scum game where he inundates the thread with so much verbiage that people's eyes glaze over and they just nod along with him right?

I missed that joke, that is a good one, OK.

Mine was referencing a more specific statement of his that leveraged the gaps between my play and my ideal to paint me as scum & shove me.

[Prism]

I happen to agree it is unlikely, for better or for worse. We'll see if it bites me but I don't think you deserved the meaner spirit now that I know you were referencing.

I'll be around tomorrow if you want to talk after catch-up.

[Prism]

The crucial difference is that I am willing to cede thread control, especially to my townreads such as you, Vulture, & Datisi. My plans were cancelled tonight which is why I was able to shitpost to begin with, but I chose to delay my catch-up anyway in the hopes that others would step up to bat. My posts towards Vulture have all been in the hopes they Beetlejuice, which naturally fail completely as they do every game. Shitposting was just shitposting. I was very intentional about not sorting in the Titus/Math discussion both to let parallel discussions happen without me (...and I don't get particularly happy at the thought, sorry to both)

I am a bit less willing to sheep on Meg, and have found it hard not to get tilted between yourself and Vulture, but the first may change and the second is too bad, so sad.

Again, light router on fire, etc.

[Prism]

(I realize that post is counterproductive to the point, so indulge me one last time there-if you think my portrayal isn't accurate then okay)

gnight

[Prism]

I am tilted for several reasons and some are outside this game but others are not.

I am tilted at the Vulture wagon but I am even more tilted by Vulture and I have already started off my morning being nasty.

Aristeia if you're that worried about me pacing the game/controlling the thread you fucking try instead.

[Prism]

I'm going to work and hopefully return to a pleasant/diplomatic state. I know Titus asked about my Vulture TR, tl;dr they do this stupid fucking deadweight act every game and live to take shots & feel superior when someone actually plays the game and pushes them for it. Horrendous fucking play and maybe they're worth a policy but I think they're town.

[Prism]

I am tilted for several reasons and some are outside this game but others are not.

I am tilted at the Vulture wagon but I am even more tilted by Vulture and I have already started off my morning being nasty.

Aristeia if you're that worried about me pacing the game/controlling the thread you fucking try instead.

If you wanted me to engage more, here you go.

Haha yeah this is exactly what I was hoping for thank you!

[Prism]

That's about Vulture, MathBlade

[Prism]

[quote="In [url=viewtopic.php?p=12924618#p12924618]post 948[/url], MathBlade"]If you’re talking policy D1 your head is not in the game.[/quote]I don't know if I would call it out of the game but you're not wrong in any case.

I am already Anti-Fun Prism so whatever. I might as well take my head out for a bit and stop f5ing. I will 100% be back later tonight but I am very frustrated by the state of the game.

[Prism]

I am going to hurl my fucking computer out of a window.

If you are town consider letting me fucking play the game without you crying about it every 5 seconds.

I will gladly answer your questions later but I am not at all appreciative of continuing to antagonize me for shit that is trivial to reply to as scum.

[Prism]

I think Prism's read of Vulture is accurate regardless of Prism's alignment.

GREAT

SO MAYBE

ACTUALLY GO TO BAT FOR IT, OR LET ME WITHOUT CRYING

JESUS FUCKING CHRIST POOKY

[Prism]

whatever, dude, sorry, did not mean to out your main

will try again at 9est

[Prism]

I'm basically going to play this like I did Perpetual.

I'm going to a coffee shop reading from 7p-8p EST. I will be online for exactly one hour per day, not always 7est. The exception is this weekend where I have a wedding to attend and thus will be around for an hour every two days. This will likely continue for the rest of the game.

If someone has a burning question feel free to bump it for me to answer because if it was several pages back it'll be awhile before I get there.

[Prism]

I lied, I'm too tilted and I'm not reading shit. There are so many better ways to spend the evening than on this game.

Maybe in a dream world Meg flips scum and I get out of this game one way or another Day 2 but at this point I am so fucking spiteful that I hope it flips town along with Aristeia/Vulture and the scumteam is some stupid lurker combo+MathBlade.

[Prism]

VOTE: Chaos

See you in 48

[Prism]

Hero guess is like that/Gamma/MathBlade

[Prism]

VOTE: Meg

Sure. I think that's E-1 but if it's hammer even better.

[Prism]

Lukewarm's content has gotten significantly better, less today but more some realtime stuff he gave last night. Unlikely but meh.

P-Edit: I will fucking bus whoever you want Datisi, why not just wagon me instead and cut out the stupid fucking middleman that's designed to just tilt me off the end of the earth for no reason?

[Prism]

hm. with prism actually voting meg, i am this close -><- to calling for a flashwagon on alch

PLEASE rationalize this

I am begging you on my hands and knees to make this make any sense whatsoever

[Prism]

I'm shutting my laptop before I become an even bigger asshat but the thought of all 3 of Datisi/Vulture/Aristeia flipping town has me wanting to vote to concede the game and for their sakes I fucking hope at least one is scum.

[Prism]

VOTE: Chaos

Not going to throw because I'm being a petapan-level ragebaby. If it flips scum w/e just carry me because I'm miserable and do not want to play. I gave a townlean based on a single post and people are playing the entire fucking game like it's me/Meg have to be the same alignment so whatever.

[Prism]

I apologize for the last page. I will play to the best of my ability and will spend the next hour reading.

[Prism]

Obviously I'm not happy with this game or the play in it but I can at least make a good faith attempt to read the slot/give what I committed to rather than throw a tantrum.

[Prism]

As much as I hate flip flopping yet again, any attempt to read right now is just going to fall flat. I am not in a good headspace.

I'm being both vicious & useless and I'm sorry. I'm not going to oppose the flip given what I've seen, but I'm also not going to vote there over an actual scumlean. Maybe I'll get my shit together tomorrow.

See ya for real for now, and I apologize again especially to Vulture, Aristeia, and Datisi.

[Prism]

Congrats on winning, town! I have a TON of comments & thoughts to share typed up that will unfortunately have to wait for later tonight, as it's saved to my laptop and I am out.

Very well played overall, and contrary to everyone else I actually liked the approach Mastina took to designing this game even if it was townsided!

I say it in my notes PT, but I think scum had clear winning chances up until the NK.

[Prism]

I wrote up substantial comments for specific players a few days ago in anticipation that I'll post when I get home, but in the meantime I just requested for the release of my notes PT.

You can find my thought process/approach Day 1 documented almost in full for anyone curious, and I think some of the strategy will be novel to the players I was most interacting with-Lukewarm, Pooky, & to some extent MathBlade

And also some lighthearted commentary as I watched from the sidelines for the rest of game!

[Prism]

I knew you were scum, and I thought T3 kill was the single biggest mistake in the game despite seeing the crumb. I was adamant that a Datisi kill was optimal but several others were serviceable, I thought T3 was the single worst kill in the game lol

[Prism]

I don't even try to PR hunt. It is one of the last factors I take into account for N1/N2, and I think shooting for them is a categorical mistake.

[Prism]

You simply weren't going to get voted out, ever. The amount of effort/nightkills to make that even a possibility makes it a nonstarter.

No one really had great reads this game until you Day 2, which makes it easy with the power of hindsight, but I don't even think you really have to factor in strength of reads. The first point is enough.

[Prism]

If it helps MathBlade I fucked up mechnically and forgot how MS traitor worked. I thought you could endgame and was playing for 5/3 way around it lmao

[Prism]

I think a lot will be surprising about my Day 1 play for certain players. Obviously now with my postgame demeanor I was not at all upset Day 1-just incredibly bored/disinterested as I think the game only became exciting Day 2-but I was very intentional about keeping Pooky in a sort of Twilight Zone, and a lot around Datisi was funny because he plays with his cards close to chest. I felt like I did the right small motions but out of order!

A bit of time was spent on keeping Vulture out of the game entirely, and everything Lukewarm picked up on with me was intentional but he was NOT meant to connect it that early and I was deeply impressed. It was really meant to be a slow burn.

I felt bad for Alchemist but obviously it was an NAI replaceout. I just had the chance to take a 3/4 week road trip and here I am.

[Prism]

Like I really need a town game here...I've been scum so many times I'm forgetting what Town is like so my scum game gets worse...I think my last one was WH 13.

See, I'm the opposite. I had been pacing anxiously in anticipation for a scum flip for months.

...and then I get one only to go on a road trip instead.

I definitely wasn't playing well and took a ton of lazy shortcuts out of lack of interest which didn't help my play when I was here, either.

[Prism]

Post 16 in the nores PT is probably the most holistic summary of my play. My notes that I'll post later are much more specific to certain players rather than trying to fit the entire picture together.

[Prism]

It was very unfortunate you had to rep out Prism, and probably the biggest stroke of luck for this town.

I think the game was great to watch, but I would have been very excited to play Day 2 on. The T3 kill+double guilty on Umlaut meant I probably would have lost, but I think I would have had a blast in the process and I am sad it didn't happen.

[Prism]

I think a lot will be surprising about my Day 1 play for certain players. Obviously now with my postgame demeanor I was not at all upset Day 1-just incredibly bored/disinterested as I think the game only became exciting Day 2-but I was very intentional about keeping Pooky in a sort of Twilight Zone, and a lot around Datisi was funny because he plays with his cards close to chest. I felt like I did the right small motions but out of order!

A bit of time was spent on keeping Vulture out of the game entirely, and everything Lukewarm picked up on with me was intentional but he was NOT meant to connect it that early and I was deeply impressed. It was really meant to be a slow burn.

I felt bad for Alchemist but obviously it was an NAI replaceout. I just had the chance to take a 3/4 week road trip and here I am.

Ari's not pooky lol I don't know why people say this. I know who it is but she's not pooky lol

I got lucky in that I got most of what I wanted despite the identity of this is true, but the subset of players who could plausibly make the meta claims about me that Aristeia did are very, very low. <5 people would accuse me of relishing the scum alignment, which is not quite true but is situational.

[Prism]

Uhhhh I don't think I ever bother pushing to eliminate either of you, plenty of others on the board.

Granted I'm not taking into account Chaos/Gamma, who were ideal votes in my mind, flipping PRs. I think scum got

very

unlucky with who the specific PRs were.

[Prism]

Atp I’m kinda at an “all’s well that ends well” perspective for how I view Koba’s play of outing the PRs, and I’ve already gone over the salient points of the takeaway I wanted in future games during this game

I thought you were in the single best position to nail my slot as scum and was very disappointed that you did not. I did not expect the connection in Lukewarm's 638 to happen so quickly, and that post by Lukewarm was a heavensent gift for you. It should have raised severe redflags for you that I did not immediately dive into your ISO given my 4+ year track record of reading you correctly. I miscalculated and should have been immediately punished for it. Leverage that track record against me and force me to make a difficult decision if I am scum; townread you, or go against that long track record?-and box myself in. Instead it passed with zero notice, and at that point I really started being lazy/disinterested.

GG.

I found this game deeply unpleasant, so I left. But it was nice spectating it.

While I intentionally contributed to this, I do recognize that it is questionable to do so. On a personal level you have my sympathy, even if I am more ruthless in-game.

[Prism]

A bit of time was spent on keeping Vulture out of the game entirely, and everything Lukewarm picked up on with me was intentional but he was NOT meant to connect it that early and I was deeply impressed. It was really meant to be a slow burn.

I felt like your interactions with me were weird, and distinctly different from the way we interacted in our last game. But I could not figure out a scum motivation for those differences. So I did not actually end up scum reading you for them

That confusion was anticipated. The connection for why your ISO first was

hoped for

come some more nudging Day 3/4. You finding it immediately was

absolutely not

expected, and while it still made it valuable for me to do so you effectively shut down early one of the strongest tactics I was rolling out. You should not at all feel bad for that, though I have more of a breakdown as to where specifically you went wrong in my word doc at home. Ridiculous you even made it that far given your current level of experience.

Post 16 has most of the Day 1 commentary

[Prism]

Another big boon for the scumteam was Koba deciding I would be too easy to read as a level one emotional player. Given that I was outclassed & lacking in more nuanced touches they were a good sport in choosing not to read into my play at all except to comment postgame, despite knowing immediately they could have pinned me either way had they chosen to.

[Prism]

You're missing the point I think. It's about a difference from my towngame, not a similarity to my scumgame. You have seen me roll town three times in the last year (Isaac, Xenoblade, Coalition) where I nailed your alignment correctly virtually immediately. While not really relevant, you have seen me as scum twice in the last year and a half (Scumsman, Draft 1). I thought by letting me delay a read on you you were letting me get away with murder.

There are always focus points and my slot isn't the only one important to read, though.

[Prism]

That's a good point, and I was sure to use that as an excuse a few times. It's easy for me, knowing my tilt was fake, to think you should have pressured more. Had it been real, though, might have been disastrous.

[Prism]

Finally home and can post my writeup from a few days back. Too tired to really go back and revise: Sorry to those whose points I've already touched on in my earlier phone posts!

All of this was written sometime Day 4 so it might also be a bit outdated even with the game itself.

[Prism]

Also very glad to see mastina comment-I have some setup comments I'll give when I have some energy in the morning

[Prism]

Hey everyone! This was a great game to watch and play in, and I have a lot of comments & feedback that I’ve been excited to share. I took a limited notes PT where you can see what I was thinking & when, along with some funnier spectator commentary post-replace out.

I have a ton of comments about this game: I’m a really big fan of breaking down specific actions and getting into the weeds of games, and I don’t believe in “saving” tactics for future games. I like to be fully transparent and show my entire hand, so even if you don’t I hope you find it interesting.

First, I want to apologize for replacing out. I felt especially bad for Alchemist, who took it as a town ragequit. The truth is just that I had the chance to take an extended roadtrip that I couldn’t pass up-I’ve been traveling ever since! While I didn’t find it the most exciting game until after I replaced out, I had still been very eager to roll scum and was sad to have to leave it.

Second, all of my rage was fake. I don’t like being that way, but given for a bit I had a history of really tilting off the end of the earth as town. While I have reined that in, I wanted to squarely put it away beyond question, and I felt faking it once as mafia would help curb anyone scumreading me for lack of tilt or trying to induce it intentionally.
For a more broad commentary on the game, I am convinced Datisi is fucking jacked, forget testosterone this dude is fucking roided up on tren, hits the gym EVERY DAY, deltoids the size of my head. Stellar game by town overall and a well deserved win. Titus/Chaos also played really strongly while the rest (eg. Lukewarm, Gamma, etc.) didn’t let their own ideas get in the way. I think scum definitely had winning chances up until the no kill. I think that N1 kill was a huge, huge mistake. Scum did get a bit “unlucky” with the N1 checks, but I think the bigger issue was

who

the PRs were. Titus, Chaos, Gamma, and the Koba slot were all very viable elim targets that got taken off the table until the NM gambit!

Most importantly, I have a lot of more specific feedback and advice to give! You can find it for most of the players below.

Spoiler: Lukewarm

tl;dr: You started playing at time where Chaos’s meta is viewed as scummy. Hop in the time machine, see it’s NAI and look for other ways when style demands it. Players can fake very complex processes as scum when there’s no real disadvantage to doing so, and sometimes getting townread really is the only point.

First, it’s a joy to play with you, and it’s great to see you keep playing and have so much enthusiasm. You’re one of the most exciting new players to come out of the last year or so!

I have two real pieces of feedback for you. First, I want to touch on the Chaos tunnel. You’ve started playing at a time when hyperposting & emotional play is put at a premium. It’s not impossible for more reserved players to be town but it’s generally viewed as less likely. Chaos is a very old-school player that doesn’t fit cleanly into this meta, and I think focusing more on progressions & the guilty would have gone a long way. Town knew there was a traitor after Umlaut flip and there’s just no way they bus at that point. In other words, Chaos’s style might be difficult to get a solid read on, but some research/meta would have revealed a lot of it very NAI. That doesn’t mean townread him for it, but it does require you to put in more work to solidify it.

Second, I want to touch on your read on me. There were so many pieces to my play that it’s always very hard for me to distill, but we’ll focus on just the bit about the selective ISOs. The origin of this was that I came up with the ISO-petapan claim first as a means of incredible flexibility and a plausible evolution of previous play. Immediately after I thought of that, I skimmed you to see what I would be forced to do. If you were obvious town, I would have delayed it as long as I could (see: my comments to Gamma). But you weren’t, and so this gave me a bonus opportunity. I had no intention of ever getting you voted out or even trying to- if you were scummy at the moment, you could still flip to UTR on a dime by virtue of inexperience-but I had every confidence after skimming that your play was different enough to justify a scumread on my end, which I hoped would drift to a mutual townread. I expected this to be a lengthy progression that shifted to townreading you over time, but I always hoped that you’d make that EXACT connection (Town Prism immediately ISOs me for an easy read). If I needed to I would explain why I started with your ISO around the time of Elo, but I really wanted you to make the connection on your own at a time that was advantageous for me by nudging you or getting more contentious Day 3/4. When you made it virtually instantly I was

astounded

.
So where did you go wrong in buying this as an actual

towntell

if it’s plausible for me as town? Let’s review the key post:

I feel like Town!Prism starts with a Lukewarm iso, and that scum!Prism doesnt?
Like, her one and only game with me, I was so townread that it hurt, so I don't think that scum!Prism starts with me as their target to try and get a fake scum read / push a miselim. But I also, tunneled Prism somewhat hard that game, so she also would not think of me as an easy pocket target either I don't think.

Reviewing the above, I knew I could get away with it on the virtue of the difference, but

pushing a miselim

especially was never the point. You seem to understand that it was possible my only aim was for a townread, but I think you put too much stock into getting tunneled by you

when I was town trying to scumhunt

, which is a whole different ballgame than when I am

scum trying to be townread

. None of this has to be for a longterm pocket, a big strategic vision, or playing the game around you completely either. I just needed some capital that I can use later down the line, so I did this on the side. It is also worth noting that this capital in the form of a townread is especially nice when I know I can get it for a

scumread on town

, as opposed to for a

townread on town

. (ie. Get townread+not box myself in by narrowing PoE, essentially I’m getting townread for free).
I was actually disappointed when you made the connection early because a slow burn, “Eureka!” moment in elo where you made that desired connection would have had so much more effect.

Spoiler: Aristeia

tl;dr: Preflips bad, not enough info on Meg alone to justify fighting against a third party, why would I ever be worried, intentionally kept you on edge to prevent you from connecting with other towns+to revisit Meg

Long wall: There’s a lot to break down here from the Day 1 play. I came in expecting to get some heat from you, but did not expect the specific angle & force behind it, and while I thought my entrance was plausible as town I definitely see a world where I make a more cerebral/laid back one.

There are some obvious difficulties with connecting me/Meg to begin with. I think preflip associations are generally terrible to begin with, but there’s just no world where I risk getting chainflipped like that Day 1. Even if I save Meg for a day, inexperience means he would be flipped a day or two later. I can’t play both slots simultaneously, it’s just a matter of time.

As scum in that situation I am going for a townread 100% of the time regardless of what Meg is, and coming out that hard means he is very likely town.

Even on willow in Draft Mafia I was again going for a townread regardless of what flipped.

Iirc your counterpoint to Meg town/Prism scum was simply that I wouldn’t derail it given that I was the counterwagon, but the truth is just that…that was just never a concern? Why would I ever be worried about that?

That’s from the Meg/Prism team perspective, but crucially this all would have been nipped in the bud if you realized that

you seriously did not have enough information to decisively read Meg

, and even if you got that with the flip trying to preflip was really putting the cart before the horse and in fact got in the way of your read on Meg.
Stopping at the me/Meg connection being wrong would be missing a huge piece of this. I disagreed with your Farkran characterization in that I thought what I was saying wasn’t walls of nonparsable garbage akin to a flail, but there was a lot more going on there. As alluded to in my notes PT, I was very determined to react in ways that reinforced the scumread on me in strictly tonal fashion. While the rage/tilt was intentional and kind of decided pregame, this was my primary means of keeping you in check. My thinking was that if you felt guilty or bad, this would prevent you from sorting other slots more rationally. I wanted you on edge, worrying about scum Prism but unwilling to pursue it as it was mostly tonal, in order to A) Outright prevent you from connecting with any other town B) Guarantee a Meg/Chaos flip and avoid a flashwagon on Umlaut C) Give my partners significantly more room to operate. Making sure you don’t actually vote me was important, and there was only one post where I really risked it all game.. It is worth reviewing this post in my notes PT.

To be more explicit: The payoff here wasn’t to drown the game in garbage, or just to get a Meg flip. Sometimes I legitimately wanted the interactions to end, though I was more than happy to use the extensions as reasons to avoid rereading/giving thoughts on other players (see: Gamma). It was entirely to keep you from connecting with other players, and you should have either called the bluff or focused more on talking with others.

I didn’t keep track as much of Day 2 on, but I thought by just sheeping/AFKing the rest of the game you gave up something valuable, which was seriously connecting with the other town. Fundamentally I think this game would have been won a lot sooner had you been a UTR. On a personal note, while I was ready to flip it for diversity’s sake, I definitely don’t relish being scum: I am instead easily bored, and Day 1 definitely fit that bill.

Spoiler: Datisi

I don’t have too many comments for you other than what

didn’t

work for me. I had several things planned with you but just felt like I did them out of order. No reaction was probably a great call, if only to deny me further guidance, but I think it denied yourself some of the opportunity to sort. At the end of the day, I think you just bought some of the AtE, but at no point did you throw and you hardcarried together with Titus. It was a joy to play with you again and I was happy to see you succeed and I’m sorry that we didn’t get to play more-plus that I was intentionally so abrasive
As far as I’m concerned you should walk around all week with this song on loop, absolutely balled out and punished the scumteam for switching the kill off you N1:

Spoiler: Chaos

There’s a school of thought about remaining intentionally more scummy/a potential elim as an investigative so you live longer. I don’t know if that was what you were doing, if so great job, but in general I think Day 1 could have been an outright disaster had you been outed. Your play after N1 was stellar but D1 was very shaky and could have been improved with more activity or realtime interaction as opposed to the more wall-style typical of older players.

Spoiler: Titus

I have no real feedback, I don’t know exactly how you got snowed by Math but that was the only clear error. Instead I just want to say that between this and FGO it’s a joy to see you in good form & playing more aggressively. Some theories were still out there but you did your job mechanically, were vocal, and your reads were generally just fine and it was trivially easy for others to spot you as town. Extremely solid game!

Spoiler: Vulture

Not too much to say here other than that I fully expected my encouraging comments to have the opposite effect, and was infact trying to demoralize you. I had an instinct that you scumread my slot and I think it was a mistake to not push it if I was right. The tilt was more winging it to sell it while also knowing you wouldn’t scumread it.
At the end of the day you have to play the game to be successful at it.

Spoiler: Gamma Emerald

Generally this was one of your better games-never being too inflexible especially-but on a smaller level, I think you were in the best position to nail my slot as scum. I don’t know if you just avoided trying because of always townreading me when I was scum before or what, but exactly what Lukewarm picked up on-that Luke was a great candidate for a first ISO read on the basis of being easy-should have brought up huge alarm bells for you. I have literally never read you incorrectly, and generally I get it right almost immediately. I put you as an early ISO candidate on my list because of this, but I stalled hard for actually doing it (leveraging Pooky breathing down my neck) because I really didn’t want to take you off the table as an elim.

…And you just really let me give no read on you at all and delay it indefinitely. Not immediately coming in and giving SOME read on you should have been a red flag the size of Texas.

Spoiler: Umlaut

I think you just straight up needed to post more, as I alluded to in the scum PT. Understanding that T3 was a prime elim target whose inexperience would lead them astray as the game went on, while Datisi had it all: unvoteable, potential PR, above average reads, etc. would have been a huge boon. The double guilties were validation that while you may have made it past Day 1 you needed to be more vocal throughout the day to survive longterm. You don’t have to no-life it but posting a few more times a day would go a long way.

You can afford to get lurker default voted when there’s 3 real scum, but with only 2+other PRs lurking in the distance that’s a very dangerous game.

Spoiler: MathBlade

Absolute hero shit, I have very little feedback for you, Sisyphus up the goddamn mountain, absolutely got hung out to dry and I’m sorry I had to leave you like that. I didn’t see/don’t remember the T3 kill justification but I would really advise weighting likelihood of being an elim over PR hunting; as long as T3 wasn’t a straight up cop it would have been worth killing a VT Datisi over him. T3 is quite young has a lot of potential but right now his tendency to overgame+inexperience leave him perpetually up against the wall.

I also think you got way too worried about me/Pooky Day 1 when in reality there was nothing to worry about, but it was a very minor mistake IMO and I get why you went to bat, especially when we couldn’t communicate directly.

It’s also a shame that the Sisyphean carry kind of backfired with the N_M gambit, but I don’t think you were wrong for trying.

Spoiler: T3

I didn’t see your play as much this game but honestly? Keep playing games and keep making mistakes, you’re doing fine and growing fast. It’s fine to miss sometimes on Meg/me, you get bit by tone/WIM and slowly your lesson.

Spoiler: Meg

Generally I think town didn’t have the information needed to confidently flip you, and that was really more criminal on Pooky/Datisi’s end. I think you did a good job with not townreading me just for defending you, which is especially difficult when people think I have to be your partner. I agree with Datisi that you worked a little too much in abstracts, and your extended V/LA got in the way in that even when you

did

give more substantive posts, they were handwaved away as “only because we called him out” There’s not much you could have done about a V/LA or this time, but I think that provides a lot of useful feedback for even when you’re not on V/LA

Spoiler: Not_Mafia

see notes PT, absolute chad, no one goes harder than the miltank man, udder made of solid fucking steel. I do think you played too passively Day 2/3 and could have benefited a lot from just posting an occasional one liner to pressure.

For the rest, I didn’t take close enough note to really have anything substantive to say, my apologies. I do again feel a bit bad for Alchemist in that that was a very reasonable conclusion but…unfortunately just wrong.

I touch on what I think are lot of my own mistakes/missed opportunities in my PT (and there were many!), and am also eager for feedback on my play if you have any to return.

[Prism]

First, I want to touch on the Chaos tunnel. You’ve started playing at a time when hyperposting & emotional play is put at a premium. It’s not impossible for more reserved players to be town but it’s generally viewed as less likely. Chaos is a very old-school player that doesn’t fit cleanly into this meta, and I think focusing more on progressions & the guilty would have gone a long way.

This is fair.

Although, it was not exactly that he was not posting that resulted in me tunneling. I actually think it was the immediate omgus that kind of locked me in

I don't just tunnel everyone who is low content. My initial scum read was more that even in the posts he was making, there were very few stances being taken. Which was enough for him to be my new area of focus after Ari towned it up. But the immediate omgus felt more like scum who needed to discredit me as opposed to town looking to see if my suspicions were genuine.

But yes. I very much did get caught in that tunnel even when there was evidence pointing me the other way

Not letting someone scumread you for free? Sounds like you were already applying some of feedback point #2 WHAT A BALLER

(I think you're spot on with the selfdiagnosis in the second paragraph)

Thanks for the feedback Prism.

You are brilliant and I regret the misfortune that we could not have played together for longer.

I'm glad you appreciated it, but the second part really isn't the point of this and I'd much rather get real feedback/discussion. My play this game had massive holes.

[Prism]

Oh and the out there theory was just me not wanting to accept the fact nm no killed. Fmpov, the neighborizer was possible though.

The depth of the MathBlade Mental Ocean-whose currents are stormy, turbulent, dark, contradictory and concurrent, the manifestation of all assorted chaos in the universe-will forever be unknowable to me and I have accepted this. I applaud you for pressing forward with determination and resilience.

Given the state of the NRG it was also more of a one-off that this setup made sense so I don't blame you for the off mechanics, either. Really stellar game and again after our disagreements in WH13/Happy Face it's been great watching you have a small renaissance

[Prism]

well for feedback, honestly when you joined the game I was kind of happy to see you and then from your posting I immediately felt a sense of dread and fear. It was like a violent reaction in my soul - it felt like something bad was coming. I can't really explain that feeling?

Usually when I read your posting I can feel the goodness and the light, here I just felt a weird sense of fear in my gut.

You've said many times before that you don't enjoy being a town dictator and it was almost jarring in a way how you entered the game - it didn't feel uninformed to me, and it could be true you're just a much better town player than I am so when you emulate your town game it looks informed to me when really it is just how you play?

I've spent a lot of the past week chewing on this. I wanted to follow my more recent meta as of late, which skews a bit aggressive, and fully expected a split down the middle for people townreading it and people scumreading it. I thought that was about the best I could really do for an entrance, and thought that the real mistakes came later as I took shortcuts realizing the table would not punish them appropriately. To some extent you also don't want to be universally townread Day 1 as scum.

Because of this, I initially put little weight into you scumreading me on that basis of "foreseen, but approximately the best available option" both during & after the game. I've put a lot of thought in this the last week, and I think this was wrong. Yesterday I realized there was a much, much stronger alternative entrance: One that kept all of the strengths of my approach but few of the downsides. I really appreciate you hammering in this tonal scumread and getting me to challenge this assumption.

There were many times I wanted to vote you because I felt more sure you were bad then Meg was but I'm not sure why I didn't. Possibly laziness? Likely a fear in my conviction that I was just hopelessly off base. I just had a feeling that you were making the moves you needed to in order to control the game rather than joining as an uniformed fellow voyager on the quest with us.

I felt badly about your "rage" towards me but I didn't think it made sense? I wasn't sure what I had done to earn such a reaction and it felt performative to me but I did feel badly about making the game unenjoyable for you and everyone else - sometimes my paranoid fits do make games feel unplayably toxic.

This feeling of being on edge/scumreading me but not being able to pin down why beyond tone was intentional: see this post.

It's easy to say you should have called the bluff, but I think this is impossible without stopping and realizing that the associative you were pushing was fatally flawed. Until you got the read on Meg correct, you were doomed to be put in a no-win scenario and exploited. This associative was also propped up by the wrong assumption that I would be worried for some reason given that I was the counterwagon, and that's just never going to be true. Don't put the cart before the horse: I don't trap you like that to begin with if you don't have those wrong foundations, and it's a lot easier to fix the problem working at the origin.

[Prism]

Crap I spent way too much capital defending Prism damn

I am both so glad you thought this too but also sad because it is probably the right call if I were any other player lmao