3d20 – The Great Board Game War [GAME OVER]

[Nero Cain]

What are your thoughts on Gamma, DW?

[Dwlee99]

EoD weird from Cyrus partner so would need to be different scum faction imo

[redtea]

this is annoying

/not a pt slip

/not a pt slip

I dont trust you with my posts is why

[redtea]

tbh gamma always feels like scum. His play seems similarish enough to LN 235 that I'm not so gung ho about Gamma being scum this game.

He's been lowkey useless but he was also lowkey useless in our last game so it could just be a null thing.

He, like most players, will have a similar playstyle regardless of alignment. It's possible that he's scum and I just haven't felt he was super scummy or anything.

I don’t mind getting eliminated at some point but why not kyouko?

could maybe make the argument that this is reverse psychology, idk.

I dont like this post
What if kyouko claimed and in exchange we all voted nero

[Nero Cain]

whats wrong with it?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

This is going to take awhile so I'll probably just post a few examples. I found these interesting because you're treating Meg's cult roll as factual here; even though you think they might be scum. That should have pinged you right here that the cult roll might have been a lie if you thought scum!meg was a possibility

I feel like you were taking my question to mean that right now when I posted the question that I was against eliminating Meg. That's not what I was implying and I wanted to clear that up. The more I've thought about it though, I doubt Meg is Cult, and I want to find Cult first, so now (but not at the time I posted 770), I am opposed to eliminating Meg.

Shit, just realized cult can bus drive james and the rolecop results will be wrong...

It was always a possibility MegA had lied about rolling Cult if she was scum, but the problem was, I knew that scum that rolled cult would probably just claim to have rolled cult. So thinking MegA was scum doesn't necessarily mean that Cult is a lie. What happened was, before everyone had claimed, I wasn't as focused on what people were posting and was solely focused on getting everyone to claim. Once everyone had claimed I started rereading from the beginning and that's around the time I posted 767. My reads got to the point where I had about 3-4 scumreads (James, Dragon, T3, maybe Gamma) that I was pretty sure on, and my strongest cult reads (Dwlee and Cyrus) I thought were probably just town if there is no cult, or if we find the cult leader. So at this point I started thinking the game makes a lot more sense if there is no Cult and wanted to eliminate Gamma to confirm the Cult's existence. While it would have been possible a cult existed on a scum!Gamma flip, I would have been leaning towards believing there is no cult in that case, because the game didn't make sense to me previously.
So I always knew it was a possibility, but it could have been a true roll-claim coming from scum or town so it seemed best to assume it's true from the start. Assuming it was true led me to a set of reads that didn't make a whole lot of sense to me, because my Cult reads would otherwise be town in a no-cult world. That is when I started to seriously consider it could be a lie.

[Nero Cain]

{nero, rmh, thor} is my new pool for today

let's goooooooo

VOTE: gamma emerald

any way the wind blows doesn't really matter to me...to me.

though he'll more than likely claim that he was consolidating b/c deadline I still find it perplexing that he went after someone, not in his POE

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Looking back the vote hopping didn't make sense here. say gamma scum and vote -> vote James -> explain why gamma scum and should be voted

Spoiler:

I kinda just want to know if the cult is real. We're too fragmented. This is the most pro-town elim today I think

VOTE: Gamma

I could also do James because I can see Gamma/James as partners, and if they are, the cult is possibly a lie to distract from scum

No, I also think Cyrus or Nero could be cult as I've said earlier. Dwlee is still my top cultread but there is no interest in that and I figured the next best thing would be to eliminate Gamma and find out if the cult roll is definitely true if he flips town.

It could still be a true roll coming from scum, but there is a possibility it's a lie if Gamma is scum.

I also thought Thor could be cult but I was willfully ignoring it because he was clearly softing PGO. I was going to push him D2 or D3 if we still hadn't found the cult leader.

Cyrus feels like a safe enough elimination and if he did get cult his PGO play maybe makes a little sense. I mean it does make sense, but not for Cyrus I feel. If he flips town we know pgo is real and we only lose a VT as well so it's not all downside.

I also feel like Cyrus is townie and is maybe just getting pushed as an easy mislim though.

I dont follow the case on cakez. Lack of engagement, and sheeped me on RMH? Is that it, or did I miss something else? I'm not really TRing him but I dont remember him being on my radar as possible cult. I'll check my notes in the morning. I'll be around before deadline.

Oh eww the Cyrus wagon is James and Dragon no way, if scum think he's cult they can shoot him

VOTE: james for now. Not sure about this cakez wagon. T3 has been vocal about cakez being scum since daystart and that's pretty much all he's posting about. I'd vote T3 out today as possible cult here. No reason he wouldnt be cult here, and he's laying a but low. Says he's not motivated though so I question if that's why he's so bare today, or if he's bare because he's unmotivated to play 3P. Ngl I feel like T3 would enjoy cult leader so maybe hes just actually not cult here. The tunnel has been unusual though

I kinda just want to know if the cult is real. We're too fragmented. This is the most pro-town elim today I think

VOTE: Gamma

I could also do James because I can see Gamma/James as partners, and if they are, the cult is possibly a lie to distract from scum

the cult is possibly a lie to distract from scum

I mean Jesus fuck, you were cult hunting all day and someone rolled cult. Am I really the only one that thinks this is B.S?

Not gonna lie, it made me super nervous when I read it.

Like, I need to know your thought process kyouko.

My thought process is, if it werent for the existence of cult, I'd be townreading Dwlee and Cyrus, and wouldn't be interested in eliminating either of them today. I'm also thinking James is caught scum, and I didn't want to vote him still, even as sure as I am that he's scum, I didn't want to vote him because of the existence of cult.

I had considered early on that claiming they rolled cult is something scum could do to throw town off the scent, but didn't put much stock into the likelihood of that, until I realized that I'm most interested in voting out Dwlee, who would be completely off the table (for me at least) if this was confirmed singleball. So if scum did fake the cult roll to distract town, it is working on me. It's working on at least half of us I would estimate. I just won a game with Dwlee as town in ELO recently and I would really like to be able to work with him here if possible, so I

want

MegA/Gamma to be scum that lied about cult. I

want

to believe there isn't a cult, and if I can flip Gamma and see he's red, I can convince myself to work with Dwlee.

Well the Gamma vote is about 15 hours to deadline and the James vote is 10 or so hours to deadline and was made right before I went to sleep for the night, so there's nothing scummy about that.

I was trying to get a wagon that was not Cyrus or Cakez to go through at that point, and James was my strongest SR. I wanted to eliminate Gamma more than James though because eliminating Gamma and seeing him flip green would confirm the existence of cult, and flipping red is a dead scum, so Gamma's elim was a win-win. James had claimed he was not enough roles that I knew he was either Tracker or Neighborizer and if he was Neighborizer he could confirm himself the next day if town. So I much preferred Gamma and tried to do that. I didn't get enough interest though and moved to James to try something else I thought was likely to flip scum, even though James isn't as useful as a dead townie as Gamma would have been, regarding confirming the truth of their rollclaim.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

736 - It's null but scum do it? It's NAI for me.

I mean most things are null.

You said yourself that you've done it as town and prob would do it as scum.

I mean, scum absolutely do do it. So if it comes from both alignments isn't that the definition of null?

In both of these games, I, as town, am very focused on mechanics. I believe I would do the same thing as scum, but I would do it in a way that benefits scum.

Does vote hoping and making bizarre about faces and technically rolefishing help? You spent practically the entire day tunneled on not flipped scum and you've spent all of today pushing town so has it really helped?

one of the off-listers would have died last Night in an attempt to find the doubled vig which was clearly rolled by scum.

Could you walk me through this...how do you know scum rolled a double vig?

1161 is the post I was talking about earlier where Nero doesnt question whether the cult is real, which would also look like a TMI on Gamma if Nero is scum.

You spent practically all of d1 cult hunting so are you claiming the pot or the kettle?

1279 - Cyrus (scum) brings up that it's scummy for me to question whether cult is real when I am specifically questioning it because I think Gamma could be scum lying about the cult. This isn't a reason to SR me unless you're thinking Cyrus was only doing this to Distance. If that's the case you haven't made it evident yet.

???? Does everything go over your head or is this just an act? I was the one that pushed you/called you out for this sudden change that the cult is maybe fake after believing in a cult all day. Cyrus was sheeping me and I was commenting on that.

And in 1652, yes, I finally voted you. I've felt like your points on me have been weak for a while and with 1624 it just got egregious. You'd been (imo) misrepping me for most of the game and tunneling me, and I was willing to think you weren't acting in bad faith up until then. 1624 set me off because you're describing my solving process as "revisioning" and I feel like you arent solving. You feel to me like a fly buzzing around. That's what flies do though, so it's annoying, but it's just what you do. But then you landed on my food.

Your reasoning for voting me is bad but thats ok b/c you aren't town.

I also told you what the difference is in my mechtalk when I'm scum and town, and gave you examples of towngames where I'm also consumed by mechtalk for you to compare this to.

Cyrus was talking about how he wishes he had gotten vigilante and how his role was like a superpower. I think at one point he even said he got confused between his role and his roll - let me go look for quotes. According to RMH's claim, he did not kill James, meaning James was killed by scum or 3p. James had said he was on the list and claimed "not x" to a lot of roles and POEd himself down to Doubled Neighborizer or Even-Night Tracker. If scum had rolled Doubled Vigilante, they might have thought that James was actually a doubled vigilante who thought his role was fudged from Doubled Neighborizer into Doubled Vigilante, which could explain why he was targeted.

[Nero Cain]

@ DOTW, Gamma Why did you stop scumreading redtea?

[Nero Cain]

I keep forgetting to not use he for you, sorry about that

[ssbm_Kyouko]

i refuse to out my roll. why becuse its a super power

wait i mis read i was thinking of what i wanted to roll lol a vig. this is what it means (uses ability on everyone who also visited their target) so yes mara got it right.

I am a bit upset I didn't roll vig rampaging no mod . But I most likely wouldn't get it any.

Cyrus as vig sounds scary right?

So I've seen Cyrus talk about wanting to buy the dayvig ability before as town in Owner's Market Blitz, so it's possible Vig is just on his mind, but that was when he was town. Maybe he was trying to emulate his town game by talking about how he wishes he was a vig because vig is a fun role, but I do think there's a possibility his actual roll did involve vigilante, and that's why it's on his mind at this point. As scum that knows of a vigilante, you would want to hunt that down for obvious reasons - especially if you're Cyrus who is a pretty primo target for a vig shot regardless of his alignment.

lets say we hit scum day 1 . 11 - 2 9v 4 you hit scum . scum kill one 10 cult gets another 4 cult 1 scum 8 vs 5 . we hit cult . scum kill one cult gains 5 vs 6 even if you hit scum we still lose to cult.

I wish I could make sense of this because it's possible Cyrus TMIed the number of players in his faction here

Did you roll ugly Nero

This I think is really Cyrus looking for this info because scum wants to use Cyrus's parity cop to find cult, and they need to know if ugly is real. So Cyrus was not teamed with Nero I don't think.

Springboarding off of that:
1. Nero - not Mafia with Cyrus
2. Gamma - could be town or scum, but either way, the roll is real. Scum would be operating under the assumption that cult is real because either a) Gamma is scum that really rolled Cult or b) Gamma is not teamed with Cyrus and none of the scumteam rolled WW or Alien, and they are assuming the game comprises of Town, Scum, and Cult.
3. I still think it would be an odd coincidence if the roll-twice modifier on Gamma's role resulted in exactly "Multitasking" with no conflicting roles. Sure the mod could have fudged the Bus Driver into Voyeur purposefully to obfuscate whether the Cult role came from T3's or Gamma's role, but I think the simplest explanation is it came from T3.
4. Meaning there is a third party out there. However, because scum were hunting for the doubled vigilante, I do not think RMH is a 3P SK posing as a vig, although I was thrown a little by 854 the other day and thought maybe he is a third party bus driver who was confused and thought he was the "cult" everyone was trying to find.
5. 3P is either a SK that targeted the same target as scum or RMH, or 3P is a Survivor
6. If 3P is a Survivor I might buy that that is Thor, but if Cyrus really rolled vig and not PGO, and Thor claimed PGO as 3p, scum would have shot him thinking he was cult imo.
7. This just means that Thor is Cyrus's partner and there is a 3P somewhere - probably not Gamma as the 3P role probably was generated by his roll, meaning if he received his own roll as 3P he would connect the dots that someone else rolled Cult before him
8. a 3P, and possibly a third scum, exists amongst {Dragon, Dwlee, Marashu, Nero, redtea, Kyouko} - take your own name out if you're town

VOTE: Thor

[Dwlee99]

VOTE: Thor
Sure

[ssbm_Kyouko]

^ Even if you assume in #3 I'm wrong about T3 and the Cult Leader was generated by Gamma's role, #6 still stands. If Cyrus really rolled vig and not PGO, and Thor claimed PGO (as anything that wasn't Cyrus's partner), scum would have shot him thinking he was cult.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

just wanted to point out (again) that it's now Monday and I've been tunneled on the whole day phase without any movement away from me.

Ditto (I think)

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'll claim first in massclaim tomorrow so I'll be locked in before any results on me

[Marashu]

I actually think I prefer a Thor elim over a Gamma claim at this point. VOTE: Thor

[Thor Ragnarok]

Unsuprised, care lacking

Marashu transparent scum using the opportunity to get me out after it's clear I scumread him

I'll take my paranoid gun owning to the witcher 3

[Gamma Emerald]

@ DOTW, Gamma Why did you stop scumreading redtea?

I’m not entirely sure, there was something I liked D1 but I forgot why I stopped suspected him toDay

[Gamma Emerald]

Unsuprised, care lacking

Marashu transparent scum using the opportunity to get me out after it's clear I scumread him

I'll take my paranoid gun owning to the witcher 3

I kinda see this myself, because of a wording error in his post with his last vote on you

[Marashu]

what error? If you mean the part about you claiming, that's not an error. More than forcing a claim from you today, I'd rather if we get rid of Thor and wait until the massclaim tomorrow to hear what you are.

[Dwlee99]

Why is tomorrow mass claim?

[Marashu]

I guess it isn't, though I thought it was?

[Gamma Emerald]

Eh that’s a fair rationale

[Marashu]

If Thor's really off the table, then I propose this:

tonight I will target Thor

. I encourage at least one other person to do so as well. If I'm the only death and at least one other person did target him, then Thor was lying.