open 826; trist fall (over)

[Faker]

This really points to both [inutile and skitter] being town imo, even if this is hypothetically fakeable from both [inutile and Infinity] of their ends. It is worth noting that this plan is exactly in the vein of Infinity was portraying in post 27 to start.

This was really confusing, sorry.

[Pavowski]

Yeah, I'm curious as to your motivation for wanting to trust and get out of the game quickly as town.

I wouldn't expect the person I trusted to accept right away unless I was unlucky and trusted scum. Getting a trust out there and seeing somebody hesitate would be a good way to get a clear on somebody, and would be a pretty safe play with 7/9 slots green. I guess that was Koba's play, too, though 3 slots at once was more than I would've done.

Now, though, I am much less inclined to play this way

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i don't know but at least one of meg/enchant is town and she didn'tn leave with either so for whatever reason she wasn't using that logic

also i forgot that enchant posted after the trusts but before infy did, so he's a townread too

If we told Infinity to leave with Meg, she'd be kind of screwed if Meg is her partner no?

[skitter30]

pooky are you objecting to both meg and enchant or just meg?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I'm objecting to both

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I'm trying to understand why Infinity decided to leave with Koba instead of leaving Koba here

[skitter30]

ok just checking

i see your point, yeah. like i understand the reasoning but to me i just kinda feel like infinity just wanted to take the chance of a trust while it was open and before people talked koba out of it
i will say your point makes meg/enchant less clear than i thought initially, but it doesn't make me think *there is* scum in meg/enchant

[Faker]

Yeah, I'm curious as to your motivation for wanting to trust and get out of the game quickly as town.

I wouldn't expect the person I trusted to accept right away unless I was unlucky and trusted scum. Getting a trust out there and seeing somebody hesitate would be a good way to get a clear on somebody, and would be a pretty safe play with 7/9 slots green. I guess that was Koba's play, too, though 3 slots at once was more than I would've done.

Now, though, I am much less inclined to play this way

I did a fair amount of research into your games before asking this question, which is why it was so important to me.

In both of your mafia games, you seemed to believe you were decent early but the wheels fell off the wagon later. In Popcorn Mafia, you were widely scumread as town, but in the end became a townlock for Hectic largely for how your thinking evolved over time. I believe your reads also got better in Popcorn as time went on.

As part of your analysis in Popcorn, you said the following:

But at a certain point - I guess it was when Luke pointed out the entire lobby was scum reading me - I just said hell with it,if my play gets me scum read I might as well have fun with it.

A relaxed Pav is a more fun Pav whether I'm winning or not. Let's see if that holds up next time I roll scum...

It is rather curious that you started out this game relaxed but inclined to trust early, rather than waiting until later in the game for your reads to strengthen.

[Faker]

You (Pavowski) are actually my strongest scumread because of those quotes from Popcorn and their applications to this game.

[Faker]

I am curious as to what your reads are when you finish sorting out the mess that is the last 10 pages. There's probably not much to be done to dissuade me, at least for now, but I'm malleable and open to change over time, as my read on Skitter shows.

[Faker]

I'm going to go for a run. Maybe my tiny brain rattling against my skull like a gumball in a jar will shake my reads up a bit.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Let me explain further my thoughts on why infinity trusted koba when she did:



I think of this game as "tiers" of trust.

When a player trusts another player, the trusted player is immediately elevated to a higher tier of trust than the player who trusted them.

so Koba trusts-> Infy/Meg/Enchant, will put all three players into a higher level of trust than Koba.

None of them should reasonably leave

after

Koba leaves.

Think of it this way, Infy could simply say to Skitter, Hi Skitter, leave with me or I will leave with Koba, if Skitter is town she would accept if she is done as she townreads herself more than She townreads Koba.

When there are multiple players elevated above Koba, it makes sense for them to cross-pair and leave together since either player would have the oppurtunity to leave with Koba if they were aligned as Mafia.

Infy could have left with Meg or Enchant and left Koba behind - a Left-Behind Koba is very unlikely to ever escape because they elevated Infy-Scum into an escape position - something that scum have a very clear motive to do.

Infy only needs to get 2 townies left behind after her to win, Koba would almost certainly be one of them if she were to leave with Meg, making her partner's job much easier. Infy was essentially out the door already - yet she chose not to.

Why is that is the question I am asking.

A simple solution is "Infy didn't think that far ahead, infy took the trust that was offered and Infy doesn't really care about her partner"

I recognize that's certainly a possible thing that happened, but I do have a fair amount of respect for Infy as a player and I think she's certainly capable of thinking ahead.

What if she recognizes that the town would begin pairing people off to leave a Koba/Faker endgame? (Proposed Solution)

Would that scare her?

I don't see why it would since Koba/Faker are almost certainly T/T at this point. [I would be so impressed if Faker!scum reacted in this manner to town!koba trusting his scummate]

If anything it almost assuredly ends in her victory.

Now the risk to Infinity is that her assigned pair for leaving is [scum, scum].

If that happens, Infinity/Partner would not be able to leave and would be outted scum and the game would be over.

If that is the reason why she snap-accepts Koba, who would make sense to be assigned to infinity?

I posit that the most likely player for this is someone inside Meg/Enchant as they were all "elevated" by Koba's gambit to a tier that is above the rest of us.

[Pavowski]

It is rather curious that you started out this game relaxed but inclined to trust early, rather than waiting until later in the game for your reads to strengthen

Fair point. How to explain this? I learned that in my first several games I was trying to play in a way that was super-serious and not comfortable for me. During that game I figured out that it wasn't working, so I'm trying to relax more in general, esp to start off.

Giving an early trust or two =\= having confidence in my reads when I could miss and not bork the game.

[Pavowski]

I have never seen a wall like that from scum!pooky btw.

[Thor Ragnarok]

I think Meg/Enchant should leave next

It's not worth being paranoid over Infinity discussing with partner in the scum PT about who should leave

It's likely Infinity wasn't online, and that Meg or Enchant if scum would've instantly trusted back, DkKoba could've retracted the 3 at any time given players were annoyed

[Thor Ragnarok]

I think last scum is Pavowski or Pooky

[Thor Ragnarok]

My third choice would be skitter

I think we should have Meg/Enchant leave

and then Faker/inutile

[Pavowski]

It's likely Infinity wasn't online, and that Meg or Enchant if scum would've instantly trusted back, DkKoba could've retracted the 3 at any time given players were annoyed

I agree with this. I'm also townier on skitter at the moment. And probably Faker.

Twas a long day, too long for a close read back over whatever all that was. Tomorrow will be better.

[MegAzumarill]

I agree with thor for where the last scum lies.

Also I'm not sure I follow Pooky's reasoning fully, as assuming enchant/me is t/t, it would still make sense for inf to hammer there especially considering the proposed fall was me/enchant before the hammer. Why would inf interupt that if we were s/t.

Might be missing something though

[skitter30]

thanks @pooky for the explanation, i understand it now

i guess i'm kinda wondering if everyone views the tier system as you do (i, as we all know, am not the best with mechanics, and didn't get this until you explained it like that), so in the moment, i'm not sure that's how infinity was viewing it

i think she probably did just want to get her partner's OK to leave (irregardless of if the partner is meg/enchant), which is why she went to 'strategize'.
like i understand your logic, but i'm just not sure it's damning for meg/enchant

[inutile]

[inutile]

i think she probably did just want to get her partner's OK to leave (irregardless of if the partner is meg/enchant), which is why she went to 'strategize'.

i town

she'd just instant accept with me as partner same as i would do were it me as mafia, like if you think i am likely or pooky is likely i don't really see what you think was happening in that time

[inutile]

can someone just trust me so i can play as confirmed

[inutile]

please

[MegAzumarill]

My third choice would be skitter

I think we should have Meg/Enchant leave

and then Faker/inutile

This leaves a Thor/skitter/pooky/pav endgame.

Which I think is my favorite endgame RN without me in it.