open 826; trist fall (over)

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #136 (isolation #0) » Sun Sep 12, 2021 5:11 pm

sup friends

i havent read anything yet

i told myself pregame i was gonna meme and try to townread people with music so im gonna do that cuz i rolled town and i dont actually have to fool anyone.

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #137 (isolation #1) » Sun Sep 12, 2021 5:13 pm

also i think theres a chance tw is scum cuz it would be karmic justice for him to get his revenge on me cuz the last time we played he trusted me and i was scum :3

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #138 (isolation #2) » Sun Sep 12, 2021 5:13 pm

In post 134, the worst wrote:
In post 114, MegAzumarill wrote:No I mean what do the numbers mean? Your feel on skitter being town? The split of reasons why you are worried about trusting skitter? Its a little ambiguous.

I'm gonna sleep so don't expect to hear from me for a while.
ah sorry I assumed the context made it clearer than it was.

I think I'm mostly nervous townreading skitter early because I have a very hard time accurately reading skitter early normally and her scumgame is very far above average. but it's not a big mostly. about 60% of the source of my concern. there's also just a big part of me that doesn't like early townreads in trust fall.

skitter is so easy to read tho

>.>

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #140 (isolation #3) » Sun Sep 12, 2021 5:15 pm

In post 139, the worst wrote:
In post 137, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:also i think theres a chance tw is scum cuz it would be karmic justice for him to get his revenge on me cuz the last time we played he trusted me and i was scum :3
this... makes me think you've forgotten that entire game :p

i remember you were like big mad hehehe :3

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #142 (isolation #4) » Sun Sep 12, 2021 5:17 pm

shiki town for blessing this thread with good music

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #143 (isolation #5) » Sun Sep 12, 2021 5:18 pm

my favorite thing about this setup is that its literally impossible for any1 to kill me so nobody can shut me up :3

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #145 (isolation #6) » Sun Sep 12, 2021 5:21 pm

In post 144, the worst wrote:pooky. dude. my opinion of you in hindsight is so much higher than my opinion of you in practice.

I have no idea why anyone has a high opinion of me at all!

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #147 (isolation #7) » Sun Sep 12, 2021 5:22 pm

In post 141, inutile wrote:
In post 136, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:music

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #148 (isolation #8) » Sun Sep 12, 2021 5:22 pm

In post 146, the worst wrote:i am beginning to wonder.

you sound kinda worried I am on to you ngl

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #149 (isolation #9) » Sun Sep 12, 2021 5:40 pm

day 1 bullshit hero-solve:

infinity/TW

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #151 (isolation #10) » Sun Sep 12, 2021 6:03 pm

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #155 (isolation #11) » Sun Sep 12, 2021 7:21 pm

you cant have 0 thoughts dude

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #159 (isolation #12) » Sun Sep 12, 2021 11:05 pm

darn i was really looking foward to playing with ducky : (

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #161 (isolation #13) » Sun Sep 12, 2021 11:21 pm

i havent had anything to eat yet

still in bed :3

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #163 (isolation #14) » Sun Sep 12, 2021 11:36 pm

I am busy trying to pocket shiki with good music tho

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #169 (isolation #15) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 12:13 am

In post 168, skitter30 wrote:Aw half the reason i joined this was to pockit tw

fix'd

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #171 (isolation #16) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 12:15 am

skitter so serious

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #172 (isolation #17) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 12:17 am

i am eating breakfast right now

a fried egg, a radish pastry, two pumpkin mochis, 1 soup dumpling and 1 fried roti flatbread

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #177 (isolation #18) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 12:25 am

this is the one game where if i rolled mafia with skitter i wouldnt immediately die :3

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #180 (isolation #19) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 12:36 am

i am a bear

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #191 (isolation #20) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:44 am

Biggest tips for town imo:

1) Never accept an offer impulsively, you can always shop for better after you are offered a trust fall.

2) Get everyone's opinion before you accept an offer, more information is always helpful regardless of whether the offer is good / not good.

3) Don't offer someone without good reasons, probably better to get people's opinions on whether your TR on someone is good prior to offering them.

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #196 (isolation #21) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:57 am

In post 193, Faker wrote:Why was your solve Infinity/The Worst? You seemed to think it implausible that Enchant could have 0 thoughts; am curious what points you in that direction.

it's a bullshit hero solve because it has little reasoning and is just thrown out for fun.

here is more or less the only thought I put into it:

1) TW was town in the last TF game I played against him and I was scum and him trusting me was the last fall that sealed the game.

2) This game I'm town so I'm thinking maybe Karma gave him red to get his revenge on me.

3) Infinity got thrown in there cuz I thought 97 is the sort of cheeky shit TW would say to his scumbuddy.

4) Also Infinity totally lied about never misreading skitter (cough perpetual mylo cough)

5) I think it's implausible for someone to have no thoughts because when you read stuff you think things.

Possibly stupid things but still something.

It's weird when someone tells me they have no thoughts.

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #199 (isolation #22) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:05 am

In post 198, inutile wrote:this could be applied to infinity having the opportunity to get her revenge on me as well, and i am perhaps even more likely to give thought to this type of logic than usual on account of having /outed from the queue and still having ended up in the game,

That is certainly very strange!

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #200 (isolation #23) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:06 am

In post 197, Faker wrote:And on myself, or perhaps Skitter/inutile?

is this a question for me?

what are you asking?

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #206 (isolation #24) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:45 am

sounds delicious

DKKoba is yet another player who wants to get revenge on me for the last TF game we played together so this only intensifies my Karmic Scumread of the slot.

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #208 (isolation #25) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:53 am

chill homie I got this

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #210 (isolation #26) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:53 am

what a massive troll

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #212 (isolation #27) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:53 am

you didn't even bold the whole thing lol

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #213 (isolation #28) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:53 am

also nobody do any troll falls thx we are SERIOUS players here

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #217 (isolation #29) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:55 am

koba susp

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #218 (isolation #30) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:55 am

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #220 (isolation #31) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:55 am

if my TW/Infinity hero solve is actually correct this is gonna be lit

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #226 (isolation #32) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:58 am

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #227 (isolation #33) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:58 am

its strictly anti-town if you're town to play that way.

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #235 (isolation #34) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:01 am

If Infinity/Meg are both town, it is strictly better for them to trust each other rather than trust Koba.

From either POV, if the other player is scum, they can escape with Koba, so hence the other player should be townier than Koba by default.

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #240 (isolation #35) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:04 am

In post 237, DkKoba wrote:
In post 235, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:If Infinity/Meg are both town, it is strictly better for them to trust each other rather than trust Koba.

From either POV, if the other player is scum, they can escape with Koba, so hence the other player should be townier than Koba by default.
meg is literally the towniest player lmao

i haven't actually read any of her posts lol

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #251 (isolation #36) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:11 am

this is mad dumb I actually wanted to play :<

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #263 (isolation #37) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:19 am

In post 255, DkKoba wrote:@pooky what is your expectation of what id do as town after seeing scum me play this setup?

I have not expectations for your play

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #266 (isolation #38) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:19 am

In post 262, DkKoba wrote:
In post 257, skitter30 wrote:I strongly dislike this
How come?

because you are robbing everyone else of agency/fun by hard strongarming your own reads over everyone else's?

like this is not going to be enjoyable regardless of the result.

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #270 (isolation #39) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:22 am

In post 269, Infinity 324 wrote:(i was joking cause i just misread her in radio buzz)

my memory is kinda shit huh

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #276 (isolation #40) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:25 am

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #281 (isolation #41) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:26 am

im p sure at this point nobody who is town will ever trust koba because it will be straight up throwing

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #285 (isolation #42) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:27 am

isolate and end means that faker/koba stay behind and the other 8 players trust each other and pair off and the game ends

faker is basically saying that he is going to hard-tunnel koba as scum and stay behind with Koba to gurantee the ending.

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #290 (isolation #43) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:30 am

In post 289, DkKoba wrote:And if im town?

then you probly just threw the game for the town?

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #298 (isolation #44) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:33 am

In post 292, DkKoba wrote:
In post 290, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:
In post 289, DkKoba wrote:And if im town?
then you probly just threw the game for the town?
How so?

cuz nobody is going to trust you so you are going to be stuck behind with Faker.

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #310 (isolation #45) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:37 am

well there goes that plan

might as well wait for the flip

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #311 (isolation #46) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:38 am

nice job infy

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #315 (isolation #47) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:38 am

bye bye koba

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #317 (isolation #48) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:39 am

In post 314, DkKoba wrote:fUck
never trust faker lol

yea im really gonna listen to someone who just let infy scum walk out of here laughing

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #319 (isolation #49) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:39 am

no shit koba is town infy just scumclaimed

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #322 (isolation #50) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:39 am

sigh

dumb game

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #325 (isolation #51) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:40 am

In post 320, DkKoba wrote:hey but im conftown so fuck you all for saying I was scummy
eat massive crowwww

you're the one who just let a mafia escape so kinda just you eating crow there

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #327 (isolation #52) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:40 am

i said either you were scum or town hard throwing

and it just turned out you are hard throwing town

~shrug~

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #328 (isolation #53) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:40 am

either way you play terrible

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #329 (isolation #54) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:41 am

like just mind boggling

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #331 (isolation #55) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:41 am

like what was that play koba jeez

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #332 (isolation #56) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:41 am

yea interesting how hard they threw lololol

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #335 (isolation #57) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:42 am

we should still wait for infy to actually flip scum

maybe shes just hard trolling us too

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #341 (isolation #58) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:44 am

i really doubt town infy would hard throw by trusting koba there

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #345 (isolation #59) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:44 am

toooooo dooo loooooooo

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #359 (isolation #60) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:47 am

you can still play with me koba i love getting massively tilted randomly out of nowhere

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #362 (isolation #61) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:48 am

I don't think any1 here is capable of convincing koba they threw lol it is kind of a waste of time/effort to try

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #368 (isolation #62) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:50 am

meg/enchant

they both posted

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #370 (isolation #63) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:51 am

In post 366, DkKoba wrote:
In post 362, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:I don't think any1 here is capable of convincing koba they threw lol it is kind of a waste of time/effort to try
Bc it isnt throwing.
Throwing requires intent to lose. My strategy was never strictly bad.

You trusting player X is strictly worse than discussing with the rest of the town whether you should trust Player X and getting the opinions of the entire town before you commit to a trust on Player X.

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #373 (isolation #64) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:52 am

it's the difference between a scum player needing one random townie who is being "independent" to be wrong versus the entire collective town to be wrong.

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #378 (isolation #65) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:54 am

In post 375, DkKoba wrote:
In post 370, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:
In post 366, DkKoba wrote:
In post 362, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:I don't think any1 here is capable of convincing koba they threw lol it is kind of a waste of time/effort to try
Bc it isnt throwing.
Throwing requires intent to lose. My strategy was never strictly bad.
You trusting player X is strictly worse than discussing with the rest of the town whether you should trust Player X and getting the opinions of the entire town before you commit to a trust on Player X.
The reactions to a trust are much more telling.
When a50 yolo trusted in our previous game - it caused me to alignment tell very hard.

The Speed is never bad

what

a50 didnt yolo trust.

Skitter became conftown because someone trusted her, then she trusted A50 cuz a50 was her highest townread

what r u even talking about

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #381 (isolation #66) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:55 am

In post 376, DkKoba wrote:thats fine - i had reasons to townread those slots and just because i do things faster doesnt make it less valid
i saved yall 5 days of pointless discussion with 0 flips ur welcome

even if you were 100% right on every read, you significantly decreased the fun of the game for multiple other players in this game just randomly?

and you weren't even right! lol

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #387 (isolation #67) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:57 am

NM doesn't pretend he's doing us a favor

He knows he's trolling and he's honest about it.

He also gets blacklisted a lot?

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #388 (isolation #68) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:58 am

and even NM didnt trust 3 different players!

he trusted ONE PLAYER

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #393 (isolation #69) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:00 am

koba trusted meg -> infy -> enchant -> Faker, they untrusted faker 13 seconds after.

meg/enchant had a chance to trust Koba but didn't.

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #394 (isolation #70) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:00 am

your trust of me didnt even count cuz you didnt bold my name

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #412 (isolation #71) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:08 am

i like the positive attitude

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #416 (isolation #72) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:09 am

shiki is inutile

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #420 (isolation #73) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:09 am

btw the last scum has to be inside Meg/Enchant

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #421 (isolation #74) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:10 am

just leave meg/enchant unpaired and town wins

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #427 (isolation #75) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:12 am

infinity would trust in meg/enchant and leave koba stuck here with us if meg/enchant are T/T

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #429 (isolation #76) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:14 am

actually maybe that doesnt make sense

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #430 (isolation #77) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:14 am

cuz infinity could just trust the one that is town and koba will still get her partner out

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #431 (isolation #78) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:15 am

if infinity was going to take the easy way out why even wait?

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #433 (isolation #79) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:15 am

you dont think infy was discussing with her partner "which of us should take this koba trust?"

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #436 (isolation #80) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:17 am

yea but koba doesn't really change their mind ever so doesn't matter if everyone is yelling at them to untrust.

if koba cared about what the rest of us thought then Koba would not trust in the first place without consulting with us

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #437 (isolation #81) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:17 am

In post 435, DkKoba wrote:
In post 433, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:you dont think infy was discussing with her partner "which of us should take this koba trust?"
i think she was discussing "should i take this now"
thus pavovski can be pretty easily cleared lol

why would pavo even post if he was discussing with Infinity in the scum PT whether she should escape early?

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #445 (isolation #82) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:19 am

or koba is like hard throwing and trusted both scum immediately upon reping into the game and the two scum were busy laughing at them in their scum PT trying to figure out which one should take the trust.

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #448 (isolation #83) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:20 am

In post 443, skitter30 wrote:
In post 427, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:infinity would trust in meg/enchant and leave koba stuck here with us if meg/enchant are T/T
Hmmmm i'm not sure
Its possible she was worried koba would retract before she could make the meg/enchant happen

I think she saw the oppurtunity and just ran with it

Also i forgot aby pavowski, i would put them in mh inutile/thor grouping

i highly doubt koba retracts lol

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #450 (isolation #84) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:21 am

like if im infy-scum, I probly just take someone townier out instead of public enemy number 1 koba right?

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #453 (isolation #85) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:22 am

like seriously infy can always say "im conftown cuz koba trusted me and i didnt trust them" get trusted by some1 townier than koba, then out the game that way and leave koba stuck here with the rest of us and probly just stuck with faker waiting for the inevitable town loss.

why would she decide to take koba with her?

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #457 (isolation #86) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:23 am

ok but even if you untrust infy, the fact that she posted and could've left with you means she's always placed higher than you on the townread chart and always gets to leave.

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #460 (isolation #87) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:24 am

like all she has to post is "not taking this koba trust" and she's 100% guranteed to leave before you every time.

Nobody would ever leave with Koba over Infy when Infy could've left with Koba first.

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #463 (isolation #88) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:25 am

In post 458, MegAzumarill wrote:You cant really say ur conftown if the person who trusted you is public enemy number 1.

yes you can

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #467 (isolation #89) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:27 am

I guess we'd just be guessing at how much strategic thought went into Infy trusting Koba huh

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #468 (isolation #90) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:28 am

In post 466, DkKoba wrote:anyways still saved yall from going nuts over enchant bc enchant is always a hard read for mosst and i've figured out how to read him so gotem.

tired of seeing him mislimmed in late game fr fr

?

you literally didn't show us anything about enchant's alignment

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #479 (isolation #91) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:32 am

infinity/meg would be the funniest scum team since they were koba's highest level townreads

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #520 (isolation #92) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 12:22 pm

the only person i am willing to townread out of that disaster shitshow sized hole in the game koba left atm is faker

you guys are going to have to sell me on others

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #522 (isolation #93) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 12:24 pm

if meg is town why doesnt infinity leave with meg and leave koba behind?

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #527 (isolation #94) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 12:31 pm

In post 523, skitter30 wrote:i don't know but at least one of meg/enchant is town and she didn'tn leave with either so for whatever reason she wasn't using that logic

also i forgot that enchant posted after the trusts but before infy did, so he's a townread too

If we told Infinity to leave with Meg, she'd be kind of screwed if Meg is her partner no?

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #529 (isolation #95) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 12:32 pm

I'm objecting to both

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #530 (isolation #96) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 12:33 pm

I'm trying to understand why Infinity decided to leave with Koba instead of leaving Koba here

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #536 (isolation #97) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 12:47 pm

Let me explain further my thoughts on why infinity trusted koba when she did:

I think of this game as "tiers" of trust.

When a player trusts another player, the trusted player is immediately elevated to a higher tier of trust than the player who trusted them.

so Koba trusts-> Infy/Meg/Enchant, will put all three players into a higher level of trust than Koba.

None of them should reasonably leave

after

Koba leaves.

Think of it this way, Infy could simply say to Skitter, Hi Skitter, leave with me or I will leave with Koba, if Skitter is town she would accept if she is done as she townreads herself more than She townreads Koba.

When there are multiple players elevated above Koba, it makes sense for them to cross-pair and leave together since either player would have the oppurtunity to leave with Koba if they were aligned as Mafia.

Infy could have left with Meg or Enchant and left Koba behind - a Left-Behind Koba is very unlikely to ever escape because they elevated Infy-Scum into an escape position - something that scum have a very clear motive to do.

Infy only needs to get 2 townies left behind after her to win, Koba would almost certainly be one of them if she were to leave with Meg, making her partner's job much easier. Infy was essentially out the door already - yet she chose not to.

Why is that is the question I am asking.

A simple solution is "Infy didn't think that far ahead, infy took the trust that was offered and Infy doesn't really care about her partner"

I recognize that's certainly a possible thing that happened, but I do have a fair amount of respect for Infy as a player and I think she's certainly capable of thinking ahead.

What if she recognizes that the town would begin pairing people off to leave a Koba/Faker endgame? (Proposed Solution)

Would that scare her?

I don't see why it would since Koba/Faker are almost certainly T/T at this point. [I would be so impressed if Faker!scum reacted in this manner to town!koba trusting his scummate]

If anything it almost assuredly ends in her victory.

Now the risk to Infinity is that her assigned pair for leaving is [scum, scum].

If that happens, Infinity/Partner would not be able to leave and would be outted scum and the game would be over.

If that is the reason why she snap-accepts Koba, who would make sense to be assigned to infinity?

I posit that the most likely player for this is someone inside Meg/Enchant as they were all "elevated" by Koba's gambit to a tier that is above the rest of us.

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #565 (isolation #98) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 3:35 pm

In post 543, MegAzumarill wrote:I agree with thor for where the last scum lies.

Also I'm not sure I follow Pooky's reasoning fully, as assuming enchant/me is t/t, it would still make sense for inf to hammer there especially considering the proposed fall was me/enchant before the hammer. Why would inf interupt that if we were s/t.

Might be missing something though

Can you explain why you agree with Thor that the last scum lies in Pavo/Pooky?

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #566 (isolation #99) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 3:36 pm

In post 547, inutile wrote:can someone just trust me so i can play as confirmed

I trust Inutile enough to do this if nobody has any major objections

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #567 (isolation #100) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 3:37 pm

In post 553, MegAzumarill wrote:I mean I think you are town but you are asking a lot for that confirm.

how does this make sense if you believe in Pooky/Pavo solve?

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #571 (isolation #101) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 3:41 pm

In post 544, skitter30 wrote:thanks @pooky for the explanation, i understand it now

i guess i'm kinda wondering if everyone views the tier system as you do (i, as we all know, am not the best with mechanics, and didn't get this until you explained it like that), so in the moment, i'm not sure that's how infinity was viewing it

i think she probably did just want to get her partner's OK to leave (irregardless of if the partner is meg/enchant), which is why she went to 'strategize'.
like i understand your logic, but i'm just not sure it's damning for meg/enchant

I've played this setup twice now and won both times, first as scum and then as town. I have a very good idea of the emotions/movements that a scum player has to go through in order to win the game as well as the emotions/feelings a town player goes through as the game moves.

I don't think Megs emotions feel like someone who is town, I believe Meg is very desperate to leave and that doesn't make sense IMO from a town POV at this stage in the game.

There is a certain level of desire to leave that rings out in Meg's gameplay.

Also it really would be the icing on the cake for Koba's #2 townread to also be scum.

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #572 (isolation #102) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 3:42 pm

In post 568, MegAzumarill wrote:
In post 567, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:
In post 553, MegAzumarill wrote:I mean I think you are town but you are asking a lot for that confirm.
how does this make sense if you believe in Pooky/Pavo solve?
Pooky/Pavo/skitter for me

They are asking me to risk the game on the Inf/intu interaction early game being WKing over buddying. I think its more likely but its a gamble to assume it straight up.

We can only have 2 players in a solve, its impossible to leave three players behind.

Who are you even talking about and why is it scum indicative?

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #576 (isolation #103) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 3:46 pm

In post 570, Faker wrote:I am very tired right now but I would appreciate a slowdown. I'm not onboard with this plan.

inutile: You don't need to be in the pairings to solve the game. It's unclear to me why it is a necessity to be cleared now instead of later, or the utility for you specifically over another player except perhaps to make it easier on you. The same goes for most of the other players, for example Meg who is only scumread by Pooky. For a more extreme example, not a single player has outed a scumread on me right now. I don't want to be trusted or cleared, but there'd be clear utility in it: If I'm scum the game is already over, and the assumption of the game is safe.

Hi Faker,

this is the trust fall game I played in last year with TW, I was scum:

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=84993

The town managed to conftown ~5 players by chain trusting one after another and they had basically 5 ICs discussing who to trust/leave out of the last 3 players.

It's an incredibly powerful mechanic to "confirm" people and have them operating on a level of "trusted IC" and very difficult for a scum player to sow discord/distrust in.

I would like to IC Inutile unless someone has a very strong scum case for Inutile.

I could write up a long case for why I TR Inutile if that would make you feel better.

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #579 (isolation #104) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 3:48 pm

In post 575, Faker wrote:I truly do not know what world you are living in here but I guess I'll try a stab at it in the morning.

I have a lot of experience with this setup and I am happy to explain my thoughts and feelings on it.

I would really like to maintain my 100% win rate on this setup despite the rather shitty circumstances we find ourselves in.

We have plenty of time.

Remember time is our friend in this setup.

Scum have much harder time keeping up a townie mindset across week+ whereas town have usually higher endurance.

the pressure will make scum make mistakes.

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #583 (isolation #105) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 3:52 pm

In post 543, MegAzumarill wrote:I agree with thor for where the last scum lies.

Also I'm not sure I follow Pooky's reasoning fully, as assuming enchant/me is t/t, it would still make sense for inf to hammer there especially considering the proposed fall was me/enchant before the hammer. Why would inf interupt that if we were s/t.

Might be missing something though

^

Meg ignores here that Enchant/Meg is the proposed fall of KOBA.

Someone who is NOT trusted at all by the town - and would not be influential at all in the execution of our plan to leave Koba/Faker behind.

If the collective TOWN makes a decision about the two to trustfall together, it could easily be Meg/Infy who are assigned and this would be very bad for them if they are S/S.

Also even if Enchant/Meg trustfall together and it is T/S - it doesn't mean Koba falls with Infinity again once koba is proven wrong. If koba did then it would be a massive slew of reports for straight gamethrowing waiting for them.

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #584 (isolation #106) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 3:52 pm

In post 580, Faker wrote:Hi, I don't need to be lectured on the mechanics of this and I have towncased inutile. Do better.

ok what do you want me to explain then?

I'm not trying to condescend to you dude I just want to win

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #587 (isolation #107) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 3:56 pm

In post 476, MegAzumarill wrote:Enchant probably is clear if they posted without hammering before infinty was trusted

^

she is saying Enchant is trusted but she's really talking about herself through the same logical lens

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #590 (isolation #108) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:00 pm

In post 586, Faker wrote:Go reread the post you replied to and pick out the part that was addressed directly to you.

I mean I have seen this setup be much easier for town to play through after they confirmed a bunch of townies with trust-testing.

Inutile is saying she wants to be trusted in order to make it easier for her to express herself, she feels she would communicate better as an IC.

I townread her and I think it's a fine idea, I'm asking if anyone has serious objections(like an actual scumread on her).

I would also be ok with trust-testing you to make you an IC if that's something you feel like would help the game state move foward.

Please let me know if you are missing something from me.

I do want to slow the game down.

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #593 (isolation #109) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:01 pm

In post 589, skitter30 wrote:sorry why did you suggest infinity/meg here (vs infintiy/enchant, meg/enchant, etc)
was it random or was there something more to it

because they were the first two players that Koba had proposed to.

I was explaining to Koba that it was strictly anti-town for either Meg/Infinity to trust Koba since they are better off trusting each other if they are T/T

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #596 (isolation #110) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:03 pm

In post 591, skitter30 wrote:ugh i read this like six times and i don't get it >.>
i'm a little slow tonight apparently

i'm a little slow tonight

It's ok I sometimes skip a lot of things and I suck at explaining whats in my head a lot of times.

The overall feeling I get from Meg's posting post-koba/infy exit is that Meg is more interested in "Meg/Enchant are confirmed town by Koba fallacy" than solving for who the last scum is.

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #597 (isolation #111) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:04 pm

In post 595, Faker wrote:(It is not trust testing that I am opposed to, it is rushing to do it for inutile over something more slow and thorough when very few, if it's even more than one, players has given concrete reason to townread it)

ok I am not proposing we rush the trust-test for Inutile.

that's why I am asking if anyone has a strong scum case for her.

I definitely do not want to rush anything

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #599 (isolation #112) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:06 pm

good night meg!

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #602 (isolation #113) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:14 pm

I mean I could just be wrong.

if nobody else thinks i'm right about meg feel free to trust Meg ~shrug~

I don't see why you would be tilted at me having a scumread on someone - I'm just trying to play the game.

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #603 (isolation #114) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:15 pm

like I asked Meg why Meg scumreads me/pavo and Meg didn't really have a reply for it that made any sense?

you can say my scumcase on meg is a flaming heap of trash but at least I have reasons.

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #604 (isolation #115) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:16 pm

In post 565, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:
In post 543, MegAzumarill wrote:I agree with thor for where the last scum lies.

Also I'm not sure I follow Pooky's reasoning fully, as assuming enchant/me is t/t, it would still make sense for inf to hammer there especially considering the proposed fall was me/enchant before the hammer. Why would inf interupt that if we were s/t.

Might be missing something though
Can you explain why you agree with Thor that the last scum lies in Pavo/Pooky?

Meg never answered this ^

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #606 (isolation #116) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:20 pm

you said to inutile that you didn't understand why trust clearing would help her and I cited a game where I saw town use it very well because I wanted to show you that it's very positive for town.

I'm not trying to tilt you.

I have said many times I want to slow the game down.

I am not rushing anything.

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #608 (isolation #117) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:23 pm

Meg doesn't explain why Infinity would want to hammer Koba instead of pairing off with someone inside Meg/Enchant

Also I don't think its accurate at all to say I've not done anything other than explaining a theory on Meg/Enchant T/S.

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #610 (isolation #118) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:25 pm

i'm very good at scumreading townies!

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #613 (isolation #119) » Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:27 pm

In post 611, Faker wrote:You can't even understand the conversation you were butting into holy shit dude

absolutely fucking tilting

bruh you don't have to be so mad cuz im dumb

i get it you think im dumb

i think im dumb too

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #626 (isolation #120) » Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:10 am

when did you get so bad at reading me dude

even skitter thinks im town this game

she

never

does that >.>

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #628 (isolation #121) » Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:23 am

r u mafia or something ~.~

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #630 (isolation #122) » Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:25 am

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #632 (isolation #123) » Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:40 am

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #635 (isolation #124) » Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:44 am

every1 eats so much healthier than me :O

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #639 (isolation #125) » Tue Sep 14, 2021 5:37 am

In post 637, Faker wrote:There are a lot of posts I can highlight that I think point towards the opposite — the first 15 posts of the game, for example, have Meg advocating for a plan that decentralizes decisionmaking. This minimizes both their own agency and that of other, mistake-prone players in favor of group rule. There's towncred to be won but I wouldn't say any of this advocacy smacked of "desperate to leave"

I didn't read the first couple of pages of the game at that point.

I said the desperation feeling came from my sense of her posting after infinity left with koba

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #640 (isolation #126) » Tue Sep 14, 2021 5:38 am

In post 637, Faker wrote:If Meg is so eager to leave, Infinity hasn't shown up at this point. Just take it. Retracting trusts is both potentially fatal, especially in a Infinity/Meg world where in Pooky's view they are apt to be paired off.

I don't think trust retraction is a valid fear when it comes to someone like koba.

also once an opportunity has been presented it kind of sticks to you.

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #643 (isolation #127) » Tue Sep 14, 2021 5:39 am

In post 636, Faker wrote:There is no issue with the "tiers" of trust presented by Pooky, at least as a useful tool of thinking about the game, though it is critical to understand that the tiers do not actually equate to being town.

I am aware of the argument that Infinity thought strategically rather than left myself and Koba to our own devices. I think this assumption is a mistake, because it relies on all of the town deciding to move forward with that plan and it not getting changed up. This is a big assumption — there's a reason I briefly entertained Infinity accepting as town. I was very worried that people would townread Koba for throwing (and indeed, those people would have been right)

It also depends on Infinity being able to successfully convince a second townsperson to trust her. One world has her partner in Meg/Enchant, and being scared of pairing with the wrong one. Similarly, Meg/Enchant pairing up leaves her out, and pairing outside leaves her with a chance of going with her partner.

The final element of this is just the time constraint. Skitter responded to my timestamps by pointing out there was
some
time to strategize, however this was very minimal, no more than 7/8 minutes at most. It is very difficult to work through all of the pairing suggestions, possibilities, etc. in that time even if you take the above assumptions as a given. Infinity would not, which adds some stress. She showed up, she read, and she made her decision all in the span of that 13 minutes.

yea you're probably right that it's more like infinity made a snap decision rather than planned deeply in a few minutes or had pre-planned anything

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #645 (isolation #128) » Tue Sep 14, 2021 5:41 am

In post 641, Faker wrote:
I trust Meg

Don't accept if you're town, just acknowledge and move on, can lead a horse to water but can't make this dude get his head out of the sand and think for 5 seconds.

well if this loses the game I get to say I told you so and if this is fine then you saved me a lot of time

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #646 (isolation #129) » Tue Sep 14, 2021 5:41 am

In post 644, Faker wrote:If I am wrong and Meg is scum it's a wellearned win.

kinda disagree but w/e

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #648 (isolation #130) » Tue Sep 14, 2021 5:42 am

we're here to play a game and lay out our thought process.

if you are not interested in playing the game then ~shrug~ ?

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #649 (isolation #131) » Tue Sep 14, 2021 5:43 am

like I've played scum with infinity,

one thing she loves to do is give out easy townreads like candy.(when she's scum)

but she won't tie herself to her teammate cuz it's bad for associatives and also its kinda shitty for 2nd scum.

if meg is sooooo obvtown, why does infinity's early iso not include a meg townread?

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #651 (isolation #132) » Tue Sep 14, 2021 5:45 am

I am only stubborn because I don't want to make a mistake

if I didn't give a shit I wouldn't even be talking to you

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #652 (isolation #133) » Tue Sep 14, 2021 5:46 am

also this unilateral decision making is the same sort of shit you ragged on Koba for.

Regardless of whether your read on Meg is correct or not - it's better for us collectively as a town to get everyone's opinion/read on Meg rather than you deciding unilaterally to flip Meg's rolecard over to see whether we survive or not.

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #654 (isolation #134) » Tue Sep 14, 2021 5:47 am

lol

i should stop caring about games that people treat like memes

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #660 (isolation #135) » Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:08 am

In post 610, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:i'm very good at scumreading townies!

I already said I could be wrong here ^

I'm not in love with my reads and I don't really care about winning/losing.

Honestly I'd have preferred if you just let everyone else express their views on meg because even if meg is town it would help me read everyone else better.

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #662 (isolation #136) » Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:20 am

I am not critical of you and I'm sorry if you took my comments as criticism.

I start the game meming in order to vibe and feel people out.

I do not meme when I actually do "trust" or ask people to "trust" each other.

That's not at all the same thing.

I am engaging with your case. If I didn't want to engage with you I wouldn't even be talking to you.

I don't care about winning/losing.

The result is separate from the journey for me.

I care about how I play, I don't care about the result.

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #664 (isolation #137) » Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:24 am

you scumread pavo/thor and you think thor could be town for reasons

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #665 (isolation #138) » Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:25 am

you think this game probly ends in a town win if everyone leaves pavo/thor behind

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #667 (isolation #139) » Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:29 am

let's say Pavo is town and has a strong townread on Meg - wouldn't him expressing that townread and trying to convince me that Meg is town help you get a better read on Pavo?

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #670 (isolation #140) » Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:36 am

I think it's probably best if we don't speak with each other if you're going to take everything I say as a personal attack of some sort.

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #686 (isolation #141) » Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:20 am

oh so it was meg?

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #688 (isolation #142) » Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:21 am

man i should really believe in myself more

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #689 (isolation #143) » Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:21 am

hahahahaha

thats so funny

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #690 (isolation #144) » Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:21 am

no hard feelings buddy

love ya long time

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #693 (isolation #145) » Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:22 am

p sure this is GG

i'll have to find some music for this

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #695 (isolation #146) » Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:23 am

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #696 (isolation #147) » Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:23 am

thanks for the music inutile! <3

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #697 (isolation #148) » Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:24 am

oh man I can't wait to dunk koba for having both scum as scumreads 1/2 rofl what a giant throw hahahahahah

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #699 (isolation #149) » Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:25 am

thanks meg : )

really funny ending =]

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #705 (isolation #150) » Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:31 am

I was actually thinking about trusting every person other than meg in order to force my read through but I thought that might be too much of a bad manners move lol

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #706 (isolation #151) » Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:32 am

no guts no glory

this is the perfect ending either way

seriously this was fun faker

*hugs*

no hard feelings on my end

hope you r not mad I am like an overbearing asshole when I get super invested :<

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #707 (isolation #152) » Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:33 am

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #717 (isolation #153) » Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:46 am

it really just depends on the player list

this setup is very hard for scum if town doesn't have defectors who play noncollectively.

I think if you don't get fustrated at things outside your control it isn't that bad :3

I am just happy you finally townread me so i didn't have to pull out my skitter read jpg again

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #718 (isolation #154) » Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:48 am

I think even if you waited Meg probably still gets to leave so it didn't matter about the ultimate result.

Skitters complaint isnt about the outcome, just about the process - she didn't really get to play the game cuz it ended so fast.

PookyTheMagicalBear · Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:50 am

sorry tw :<

i dont know why you got mad at me I was mostly joking with you :<

PookyTheMagicalBear · Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:12 am

thanks Tris! : )