open 826; trist fall (over)

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heya all (tw!!!!)

@tris vla on fridays and saturdays

@pawvoski i'm kinda dubious that trusting fast is a good idea

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early townpings on intutile

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skitt i feel like shiki's posting is a bit too mech-focused to be ai so far? for me it's harder to see her towny thought process in mech in open setups at least

wait intuile is shiki?

i didn't realize that ...
i still think lightly +town but not nearly as ai as i was thinking before

[skitter30]

We start at 80% town, unless we mistrust d1 this is only going to get worse and less town will have to be tricked by scum for a wrong discussion.

We don't need to take the whole do, just reach a decision about the rest of the game.

mm, this just feels like THE PLAN AS MAFIA to me

but that may just be because last iteration i had a very similar thought process during pregame

were you scum last iteration?

pedit hmmmm

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inutile do u think scum-meg would approach the game the same way you would ?

[skitter30]

early townpings on intutile

i retract this

We start at 80% town, unless we mistrust d1 this is only going to get worse and less town will have to be tricked by scum for a wrong discussion.

We don't need to take the whole do, just reach a decision about the rest of the game.

mm, this just feels like THE PLAN AS MAFIA to me

but that may just be because last iteration i had a very similar thought process during pregame

this post is *really* feeling weird to me and somewhat scummy
i don't know if meg's approach to the game is *right*, but i do like how they're thinking about the setup
and i dislike that inutile is just vaguely shading this whole thought process

[skitter30]

are you scumreading meg rn @inutile?

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i think it's a decent take

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We start at 80% town, unless we mistrust d1 this is only going to get worse and less town will have to be tricked by scum for a wrong discussion.

We don't need to take the whole do, just reach a decision about the rest of the game.

mm, this just feels like THE PLAN AS MAFIA to me

but that may just be because last iteration i had a very similar thought process during pregame

ok then i think this post is basically shade

[skitter30]

i don't agree that shiki shading there is scummy

how i'm reading it hte implication is that inutile is saying she doesn't like the plan, and thinks it's soemthing that more likely than not comes from mafia, as she had a similar thought process last game when she was mafia

the scummy bit is that she doesn't *actually* want to call meg scummy for it, so it's just generally casting shade for no good reason there

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with the knowledge of your alignment i don't really see how you think this is a decent take beyond like

'i am town and i think inutile is mafia'

yes that's exactly what i'm saying.
i think you're mafia, so it's a decent take

and reading our interactions i could understand how an outsider would come to the conclusion of tvs

[skitter30]

i note something as potentially coming from mafia > this player is definitely mafia!

i didn't say you had to definitely view her as mafia after that post, that's an overexaggeration of what i'm saying

i'm saying that you seem to be saying you think that plan comes from mafia but don't want to call her scummy for it, and that disconnect seems scummy to me

[skitter30]

I hope everyone enjoys their days and/or nights

you too!!! :)

how is "i think this is mildly scummy" not a valid perspective

PEdit: hi! i am

as far as i can tell she isn't calling it mildly scummy (or scummy at all), that's my issue

and @inutile, the way you wrote the 'the plan as mafia to me' bit makes it sound to me like you think this is a plan that mafia would approach the game with, which is why it reads ot me like the natural conclusion is that you would be finding her scummy here, so the fact that you aren't makes it seem like you want to call her plan mafia-adjacent without calling her scummy, so it reads as just shade with nothing deeper

i don't know how to explain this better

in other news i do like thor's entrance

[skitter30]

and @inutile, the way you wrote the 'the plan as mafia to me' bit makes it sound to me like you think this is a plan that mafia would approach the game with, which is why it reads ot me like the natural conclusion is that you would be finding her scummy here, so the fact that you aren't makes it seem like you want to call her plan mafia-adjacent without calling her scummy, so it reads as just shade with nothing deeper

oh was it just the capitalization? i just do that sometimes when it is like, a specific thing, for emphasis/to create a proper noun out of it, like how when people sometimes put 'tm' on the end of a similar statement,

like i still think it's noteworthy? i haven't unnoted it, i don't see what the expectation of me is here

ok, maybe i read more into it than was intended, but that is how i read it

i don't like this sr

that's fine!

pedit tw !!!!! hi :)

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yeah i think so too

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yeah i think so too

Skitter 2/2 agreeing with my garbage takes, cut it out or I'm gonna start trusting you

thanks for the headsup

@skitter why do you like thor's entrance (I do too but I am wondering if its for the same reason)

Will say that I don't think inutile is scummy for their suspicions of me. I am proposing something that I assume is radically different than how this setup is normally played.

i mean your proposal being different doesn't inherently make it scummy
also r.e. thor, i liked the vibes of 46, struck me as +town. it is possible to be faked by scum, and this is not a *super* strong read, but for p2 or whatever it was it was enough for me to make note of it

[skitter30]

that's fine!

this ok-ness feels like town!skitt for some reason

i actually thought u were gonna scumread me more for that

ok i'm glad someone else called skitter town first so i can be like "i kinda agree and it terrifies me"

terrifies you cuz it's me or just generically cuz it's a townread in this setup?

ok i'm glad someone else called skitter town first so i can be like "i kinda agree and it terrifies me"

Yeah skitter is a little scary. Something about them feels off. Reading their posts I can't pinpoint it but they are giving off weird vibes

well if u can figure it out and wanna talk abt it, lmk!

ok i'm glad someone else called skitter town first so i can be like "i kinda agree and it terrifies me"

it's ok i've never ever read skitter wrong

>.>

[skitter30]

ok i'm glad someone else called skitter town first so i can be like "i kinda agree and it terrifies me"

terrifies you cuz it's me or just generically cuz it's a townread in this setup?

probably about 62% / 38%

hmmmm ok

i don't think anybody should be townreading me yet tbh

~

also i think meg is p obviously town

[skitter30]

zealousness for their plan + general tone + calling me weird / not-townie + generally just good timing wrt the questions they're asking and their posts

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feels like a genuine read

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@faker: without knowing who inutile was, i liked how she was questioning meg's plan and trying to understand it
upon learning who she was, most of the townpings from that were negated because i think she would have done that as either alignment

i also had not yet read 21 at the time of my posting 22, so when infinity said intuile == shiki, i went back and read inutile's posts with that and mind and also saw 21, and realized i didn't like it, to the point where i wanted to take back the initial townpings i had given

inutile recognizing that other players do not think like it does is not a big stretch of the imagination. My initial reaction to its disclosure it thought of doing similar as mafia was "Wild, that's such a weird and doomed approach"

i mean the way i read the post was that she was calling meg scum for approaching the game similarly to how she did

in other news i do like thor's entrance

I absolutely hated it because it's blandly touching a tonal base and peacing. Town players do this all the time but unless Thor doesn't know how to post whatsoever as scum this doesn't seem indicative of a damn thing.

I would be voting both of you if this were a traditional game.

ok. like i said it isn't a very strong read or anything, but for p2 it was enough to give me some ping in some direction or the other, and i feel like sharing such pings at that stage is a good thing because it creates content and gets the game moving along

i can see why you don't think it's ai, and it's not a read i would base a trust on

Let me be a bit more direct with skitter.

It appears you have some experience with shiki/inutile and are drawing at least part of your read from meta.

What suggests to you that: A) inutile actively hedges that shade as scum rather than just goes for it if they want to B) inutile chooses to go after Meg in that instance to begin with?

idk this isn't really how i was thinking abt it so it's hard for me to answer the questions you posed here
i saw the post. i read it as inutile disliking meg's plan since that is how she approached the game in *her* scumgame, and calling meg scummy for it. but then later hedging around actually calling meg scummy, so it looked like she just wnated to make meg look bad without fully commiting to it

[skitter30]

ok i'm glad someone else called skitter town first so i can be like "i kinda agree and it terrifies me"

why am i kinda town

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Aw half the reason i joined this was to play with tw :(

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What did everyone have for breakfast?

Hey do u have any thoughts on the game?

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Sounds yummy!

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:)

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I strongly dislike this

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They're probably both town but i'm kinda annoyed that this is how you're choosing to play this

Pedit dont like you strongarming the game, especially at this stage

[skitter30]

look i as town townhunt very fast - i will be speedgaming this. Any who can't keep up can eat my shorts

I didn't choose to sign up for a game that is going to be 'speedrun' like this, and i dont particularly appreciate you repping in and choosing to play the game in a fashion that multiple people disagree with in a way that basically negates how other people would want to play this

[skitter30]

4) Also Infinity totally lied about never misreading skitter (cough perpetual mylo cough)

(i was joking cause i just misread her in radio buzz)

Yeah this was p clearly tongue in cheek

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Sorry u want to have you/koba trusted @faker

Why do u want that

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isolate and end means that faker/koba stay behind and the other 8 players trust each other and pair off and the game ends

faker is basically saying that he is going to hard-tunnel koba as scum and stay behind with Koba to gurantee the ending.

I mean koba is functionally not gonna be trusted now so i'm fine with that plan

Only annoying thing wouod be if faker is town cuz we'd be losing the potential for him to go earlier

(I do think he's probably town)

Or we can all mutually agree not to trust koba

[skitter30]

skitter lockscum ez game

I dont feel like i need to give this a response

[skitter30]

And if im town?

then you probly just threw the game for the town?

How so?

Noones trusting u now

If my strategy was disallowed there would be a limit on trust targets js

That's not inherently the issue here

[skitter30]

Koba probably town but gotta say i am *unhappy* with how they chose to play this

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no shit koba is town infy just scumclaimed

Yeah i saw it after

But i consider that a throw from koba

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Faker obvtown
And this was just so beyond dumb

Plz dont join games i'm in in the future #koba

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Infy just scumclaimed and isnt talking, she's scum

Koba just threw

Infy wouldn't have accepted if partnered with koba

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Infy isnt talking, that's almost more of an indicator than the fact that she took the trust

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Infy's scum

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you dont know the definition of gamethrow skitter stop talking about me.

I am ignoring you, plz dont join games i'm in in the future

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Who were the other 2 and did they post before infinity hammered?

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Thanks. Its probably thor

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Thanks. Its probably thor

P sure everyone else's reaction was townie
Pooky's maybe not townir as i would have liked but he called out infinity firsr

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Maybe it wasnt technically a throw

But u just played incredibly suboptimally in a way that screws over the other living townies in a way that several other players asked you not to

[skitter30]

Whatever its probably thor and now we need to go through several iterations of this

Meg/enchant are probably next
Faker/someone

Like idk coukd be pooky/inutile but i think it's thor

[skitter30]

Okay then, skitter is so confident she doesn't even want to interact with me

I'll be back later

How did you come to that conclusion?

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Thanks enchant, good perspective

I think ot could be shiki too tbh

Thor and shiki would be my last 2 trusted

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infinity would trust in meg/enchant and leave koba stuck here with us if meg/enchant are T/T

Hmmmm i'm not sure
Its possible she was worried koba would retract before she could make the meg/enchant happen

I think she saw the oppurtunity and just ran with it

Also i forgot aby pavowski, i would put them in mh inutile/thor grouping

[skitter30]

or koba is like hard throwing and trusted both scum immediately upon reping into the game and the two scum were busy laughing at them in their scum PT trying to figure out which one should take the trust.

Oh good point. Hmmmm

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i highly doubt koba retracts lol

I think it was somewhat instinctive tbh , she saw the oppurtunity and ran with it

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Also i dont know jf she was online right when the trust came out

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Wait she posted after koba's trust before hammering?

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For Skitter/Pooky:

I think the first Infinity post came from reading up as she went. 13 minutes elapsed between posts and she had just answered post 196, which is the page before Koba's trust. The strategic thinking was likely <10 minutes, and probably 2/3 minutes of that were just making sure that the trust was still valid.

Ah ok thanks, you're right, it does look like some stratgeg happened there

Then yeah meg/enchant probably arent clear

[skitter30]

Enchant probably is clear if they posted without hammering before infinty was trusted

^

I do kinda independantly townread meg too

[skitter30]

That's fine, i'm not asking you too

[skitter30]

i

could you put words to why i am at the bottom of pairings list please

if you want, don't really have to,

Yeah, but in a few hours, i gotta do some irl stuff

[skitter30]

i

could you put words to why i am at the bottom of pairings list please

if you want, don't really have to,

it's a combo of:
- poe (several people i thought had a *very* towny reaction to that debacle)
- infy's strongly objecting to my scumreading of you felt somewhat partner-y (or maybe white-knight-y. i'm still kinda mulling this over)
- feel like you didn't have *as* emotional reaction to koba as i might have expected

(i.e. i'm kinda replicating my reasoning for clearing ydra vs ceph in radio buzz after the ssbm self-hammer, people with strongly emotional reactions there are probably town)

[skitter30]

i think last scum is in thor/pavowski/inutile, and that faker should be in the next pairing

[skitter30]

faker/meg would probably be my ideal?
or faker/pooky
idk

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uh it's just in order of how strong i townread people, you're my strongest,and then it would be pooky or meg, probably meg

and i meant this phase, if i wasn't clear

pedit yeah i was thinking meg/enchant were unlikely to be scum given that infinity just took the first hammer but i'm feeling less confident in that now it's been pointed out she had time to strategize, so i'm just going by strongest townreads down

[skitter30]

ah ok, now that you said that i recall you saying something similar, early, sorry

ig we can try to find other pairings first, but i would definitely want you to leave before the equivalent of elo or whatever, i do think ur pretty townie

[skitter30]

well he's my strongest townread but doesn't want to leave >.>

i still townread meg for like pre-koba positng

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i don't know but at least one of meg/enchant is town and she didn'tn leave with either so for whatever reason she wasn't using that logic

also i forgot that enchant posted after the trusts but before infy did, so he's a townread too

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pooky are you objecting to both meg and enchant or just meg?

[skitter30]

ok just checking

i see your point, yeah. like i understand the reasoning but to me i just kinda feel like infinity just wanted to take the chance of a trust while it was open and before people talked koba out of it
i will say your point makes meg/enchant less clear than i thought initially, but it doesn't make me think *there is* scum in meg/enchant

[skitter30]

thanks @pooky for the explanation, i understand it now

i guess i'm kinda wondering if everyone views the tier system as you do (i, as we all know, am not the best with mechanics, and didn't get this until you explained it like that), so in the moment, i'm not sure that's how infinity was viewing it

i think she probably did just want to get her partner's OK to leave (irregardless of if the partner is meg/enchant), which is why she went to 'strategize'.
like i understand your logic, but i'm just not sure it's damning for meg/enchant

[skitter30]

i think she probably did just want to get her partner's OK to leave (irregardless of if the partner is meg/enchant), which is why she went to 'strategize'.

i town

she'd just instant accept with me as partner same as i would do were it me as mafia, like if you think i am likely or pooky is likely i don't really see what you think was happening in that time

i don't think it changes with who the partner is?

and i'm not confident enuf in you just yet to have you trusted

[skitter30]

ig i just feel like i need to sort you right by the end of the game, but that it doesn't necessarily have to be *right now*
and i'm a little wary of people asking to be trusted, since we have no margin of error anymore

i do think 561 is +town tho

[skitter30]

i don't really knwo if i'm ready to like functionally hammertest rn

[skitter30]

I believe Meg is very desperate to leave

ok
can you quote a post or two where you see this happeneing?

[skitter30]

ok pooky is town

[skitter30]

i would probably feel better ic'ing pooky if we're gonna ic anyone

[skitter30]

If Infinity/Meg are both town, it is strictly better for them to trust each other rather than trust Koba.

From either POV, if the other player is scum, they can escape with Koba, so hence the other player should be townier than Koba by default.

sorry why did you suggest infinity/meg here (vs infintiy/enchant, meg/enchant, etc)
was it random or was there something more to it

[skitter30]

I agree with thor for where the last scum lies.

Also I'm not sure I follow Pooky's reasoning fully, as assuming enchant/me is t/t, it would still make sense for inf to hammer there especially considering the proposed fall was me/enchant before the hammer. Why would inf interupt that if we were s/t.

Might be missing something though

^

Meg ignores here that Enchant/Meg is the proposed fall of KOBA.

Someone who is NOT trusted at all by the town - and would not be influential at all in the execution of our plan to leave Koba/Faker behind.

If the collective TOWN makes a decision about the two to trustfall together, it could easily be Meg/Infy who are assigned and this would be very bad for them if they are S/S.

Also even if Enchant/Meg trustfall together and it is T/S - it doesn't mean Koba falls with Infinity again once koba is proven wrong. If koba did then it would be a massive slew of reports for straight gamethrowing waiting for them.

ugh i read this like six times and i don't get it >.>
i'm a little slow tonight apparently

i'm a little slow tonight

[skitter30]

Enchant probably is clear if they posted without hammering before infinty was trusted

^

she is saying Enchant is trusted but she's really talking about herself through the same logical lens

Same logic doesn't apply to me
Assume I'm Scum:
By the time I posted Inf was already trusted, and so either scum could go out.

But for Enchant, they chose not to leave even before their partner would've been able to. (what I specifically asked about)

i think that this is a pretty salient point, and i don't think meg is trying to say she's town, but rather trying to say *enchant* is (and i don't think she's necessarily applying the logic from enchant to herself)

idk it is very possible i'm missing something obvious (like everything you're saying rn is a big 'does not compute' :/) but they still feel p townie to me

and night!

[skitter30]

ugh i think we're all very tilted from the events of earlier >.>

i think pooky and faker are town
probably enchant and inutile and meg as well
but i'm gonna sleep on this now, night y'all!

[skitter30]

I'm having coffee and a banana for breakfast, what about everyone else?

I'm a little dubious of 623

[skitter30]

This is an exceedingly rare event indeed

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No >.>

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>.>

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:)

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I think meg is probably town but this is also very premature and kinda and just a very instinctive reaction to disliking what pooky said

Kinda viewing this as a wash :shrug:

[skitter30]

Well then

I have *feelings* on this that i probably don't want to get into
But i'm personally not counting this as a real game that i played

But gj pooky, good reads

[skitter30]

I think in a setup like this fast-trusting like that strips the other players of their agency if they dont want it to end that quicklu

I suppose my frustration is partly on me, and i should avoid setups where i might not have any say in the outcome, but this was a frustrating experience

Koba plz dont rep into games that i'm in
Faker you basically did the same thing, and it was very frustrating go basically see you also strongarm the game into deciding what was going go happen today

Gg scum
(But i think this is still much more town losing than scum particularly winning)

[skitter30]

I will take the L and gladly do the autopsy afterwards for how I managed to fuck up that badly but for now I'm just amused that all of that meta, effort, and thought went straight to losing the game in the fastest possible way.

The thing is that other people may have actually wanted to play and not just take the L so that you can cavalierly tesf your own assumptions in functional elo

[skitter30]

it really just depends on the player list

this setup is very hard for scum if town doesn't have defectors who play noncollectively.

I think if you don't get fustrated at things outside your control it isn't that bad :3

I am just happy you finally townread me so i didn't have to pull out my skitter read jpg again :]

Yep, it doesnt really matter and i probably shouldnt be frustrated

And happy i got u rught this time!

Ad obviously the whole town cannot move in lockstep, and that's how scum wins, but i also think there ought to be *some* level of consensus when functionally hammertesting in the equivalent of elo, not just in the read itself but also in the willingness to end the day/game just then if wrong. Like it is pl dependant, but i'm talking abt the reactions this pl had to both

And my objection is 100% abt the process. I do think i was suggesting meg/faker, and that's wrong and fhat's fine. The issue is that i dont think that was the consensus, and i dont think most people were willing yo bet the game on that. I was not

[skitter30]

It's literally called "Trust Fall". You read a player, you talk about it, you grow in confidence, at some a town player risks it. This is not a majority vote game. You get dropped and proved a fucking moron.

I'm fine with that label of being wrong and a complete moron, but I don't think I disrespected the agency of any players or that I ignored the giant collective will. We had other players advocating for someone to YOLO trust them.

But this is fair too, i suppose i should avoid this setup in the future

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Faker you basically did the same thing, and it was very frustrating go basically see you also strongarm the game into deciding what was going go happen today

This wasnt fair
Sorry

[skitter30]

Dont think eithed koba or faker were a throw but k strongly disagree with both

Thanks tris

[skitter30]

Faker you're a cool dude and i liked your analysis and i hope to play with u again sometime

[skitter30]

And i probably overreacted earlier, sorry
I still disagree with the approach, but it didnt warrant me getting so annoyed

And hopefully we can all learn something from this for next time!