Mini Normal 2239 | AQAtPimP | Game Over

[Datisi]

VOTE: datsi

there can be only one!

[Datisi]

VOTE: mewtaph

[Datisi]

alright, here's something to work off of:

10 was wordy in a way that's (in my opinion) more likely to come from scum, but it's so *slightly* more more likely to come from scum that it might as well just be personality, and i don't know you, so it's nai overall.

12 however, seems forced. it was made 40 minutes after 10, meaning that you had read 3 at the time you first posted in the thread, but chose not to say anything about it - implying 12 wasn't your first though when you read 3, and instead it was thought of 40 minutes later. considering noting much happened from 10 to 12, it gives off an impression that you wish to give off the appearance of solviness rather than actually being solvy naturally, if going by the assumption that a town player wishing to solve would've immediately thought of writing 12.

furthermore, 12 sets up some future expectations for margot and t3. while it potentially could be some sort of reaction test, to me it reads more as posturing for potential future pushes around those two players. especially since it seems like you don't know either of them - why would you be putting trust in margot to read t3 correctly then?

considering you said you saw votes coming, it means you're at least on some level aware you're coming off as slightly scummy now. whether it's because you're a town player who's aware of how he's coming across, or a scum player who's tmi-ing his own alignment, remains to be seen. i don't know your skill level - if you're a more skilled player, i'd be slightly more likely to assume the former, if not, i'd assume the latter.

and finally, the fact that omega voted you gives me vaguely positive vibes from him, since if he's arrived at the same conclusion that i did ("mewtaph is worthy of a vote"), that slightly increases the odds that omega and i had a similar thought process getting there, and as i am town, it makes him slightly more likely than random to also be town in my eyes.

i can't believe i paused my game to type up page 1 analysis that's likely to be worthless by the time we hit page 5, but here we are.

pedit: or that. maybe that would've been a better idea to post.

[Datisi]

@mewtaph, well then, let me know when you're ready to fully explain your first vote. if nothing i'm curious, and it seems like it will be easier to read you once that is out.

part of me is wondering why you chose to use the opening you're aware has increased potential to send votes your way, when you also apparently don't do well under pressure, but i'm not sure if i can call this "contradiction" scummy. surely scum!you would think of not making that post in the first place.

[Datisi]

I’m a Miller btw

spicy. is this a serious claim? i'm guessing it is, since i've never seen n_m troll by claiming miller, but to make sure.

[Datisi]

VOTE: T3

One of these days I'll be right. Going by the math

Sounds like you two have history. Anything we should know about T3's town game? I trust that you'll be able to read them particularly well.. unless..

TMIing something??

what could he even be tmi-ing there?

[Datisi]

Evidently I think you're more likely to be town than not because I don't think mafia!you steps on my toes as boldly as you have but I've been wrong before.

in what way does salsa's posts towards you make you think it's unlikely to be scum stepping on toes, that doesn't make you feel so from me/omega?

also, can was there a reason you picked her - taking a cursory glance at your topics, i don't see you've played together before?

[Datisi]

I’m a Miller btw

Woa same

oh no

not again

if i'm thrown into a game with two millers again i'm not gonna be happy

[Datisi]

also as i dislike an unannounced nm-1 and don't want there to keep being an nm-1

VOTE: dwlee

i mildly like mewtaph's responses. i think usually it wouldn't be enough to make me change my vote but /shrug

[Datisi]

actually i'm not sure scum ever cc's miller there

and i don't hate salsa'a posting either

let's vote uhhh

VOTE: innocentvillager

always a good choice

[Datisi]

Also should mention I will not show up to a role cop as "Miller"

is this a genuine misunderstanding on how miller works or a cheeky meme scumclaim, my brain is being fried so sarcasm detectors are worse than usual

[Datisi]

okay either you're fucking up a fakeclaim or playing some galaxy brain reaction test that i don't get bc universal miller isn't normal and miller can only be called miller in a normal so like idek

[Datisi]

sigh

[Datisi]

i assumed t3's miller claim was a meme, considering he also claimed mason, and i'm hmm at you taking it seriously(?)

[Datisi]

after looking at that iso for a whole 5 seconds, i can vote margot

VOTE: margot

[Datisi]

okay either you're fucking up a fakeclaim or playing some galaxy brain reaction test that i don't get bc universal miller isn't normal and miller can only be called miller in a normal so like idek

sigh

Never ever kill Datisi. idc if there is a cop guilty, kill the cop.

may i ask why?

[Datisi]

So, it’s possible to have multiple millers?

yep, i played in a normal game a bit over a year ago with two millers

both claimed day 1 and it was a shitfest, 50 pages of getting nothing done because we were arguing which miller to yeet

[Datisi]

i don't disagree with you, i'm just not sure how you're seeing that from my confusion at you butchering the basics of normal games

[Datisi]

Reaction test success

me pestering a townie who has a weird townread on me is not out of my scumrange, but you can just say "meta bad" and keep townreading me if you want

(I'm assuming the end of that reaction test is that you're townreading me considering you're not voting me, lemme know if i am wrong)

[Datisi]

Well, I've a question to ask, find this on wiki:

A Miller (sometimes called an Outsider) is a role or role modifier such that the player passively returns an unfavorable result (i.e. Guilty) if investigated by a Cop.

So, this role is totally useless for town thus we should claim the role on D1? Or this can have modifier which can make the role powerful?

millers are supposed to claim day 1 so that any potential cops know not to check them. it can have modifiers or additional roles, but in the vast majority of cases, it's the best to claim being the miller as soon as day 1 starts.

[Datisi]

you know i could never be evil against you ^_^

unlike someone here...

[Datisi]

Datusii's analysis feels too deep to come from town him

?

[Datisi]

v/la the next 24-36 hours

got a busy day tomorrow. i'll try to post when i can but it's also possible i simply won't feel like it. try to not kill anyone while i'm gone.

[Datisi]

it's true i have a n0 inno on roden

[Datisi]

did t3 did something outside of usual-t3 into scum-t3 territory? if it's a yes, can someone explain it to me pls i wanna join in on the fun

[Datisi]

i want to join on voting scum but like i genuinely don't get why he's picking up votes because he reads to me classic t3 so far

[Datisi]

dwlee, should i be getting worried you're being so buddy-buddy with me this game?

[Datisi]

yes, i did indeed see that

that is scum!t3 because...?

[Datisi]

i understand that he's lying

my question is why does that make him scum as opposed to normal t3

[Datisi]

I’m a Miller btw

Same here! Don't we also have a masonry? Why haven't you posted in there?

i don't think this post sounds believeable at all and pretending it does is weird as hell to me, and if t3 is green i think kyouko deserves a closer look

rereading the t3 claim, not only is mason miller a nonsense role combination, he's apparently outing his mason buddy too, and how can you think any of this is serious

actually yeah
VOTE: kyouko

mason miller immediately outing his partner makes no sense

scum locking themself into such a powerful claim so early on makes even less sense

[Datisi]

like, if you're a miller, ok
if you're mason miller, why out that you're also a mason
if you're outing that you're a mason, why out a partner as well

if you're mafia seriously fakeclaiming for no reason, why the hell would you do any of that

and going "yeah that seemed like a serious scum fakeclaim to me" feels like it's coming from scum who's grasping at reasons to wagon someone rather than town actually thinking things through

[Datisi]

I didn't remember 27. My vote is solely because T3 tried to claim something that is not likely in a daytalk active setup and is now trying to walk it back as a joke

ok, now that i have reminded you, what is your opinion on t3?

pedit: very well then
still completely missing my point but ok

[Datisi]

I think it was serious, because it sounds like the kind of convoluted role that gypyx normally puts into his games. Outside of a gypyx game, where N_M hasn't already claimed Miller, I'd believe it's a joke. In this case though I think it's clear he's walking back a gambit gone wrong.

like just because it's somewhat more likely a convoluted role combination such as that exists, it still doesn't mean that it's pro-town for town to actually claim it or pro-scum for scum to fakeclaim it, which means it's still blatantly more likely to be a joke

[Datisi]

like which scum player seriously fakeclaims main with a buddy on page three or whatever for literal no reason aahhhh

[Datisi]

fakeclaims mason*

knowing my luck t3 is scum who was making a joke and i'll look like an idiot on d2

[Datisi]

Stay on Margot @datisi

convince me kyouko isn't purposefully being ignorant about the likelihood of scum seriously claiming mason unprovoked on pg3 and i'll switch back tomorrow morning

i need to sleep now, see ya

[Datisi]

like, if you're a miller, ok
if you're mason miller, why out that you're also a mason
if you're outing that you're a mason, why out a partner as well

if you're mafia seriously fakeclaiming for no reason, why the hell would you do any of that

and going "yeah that seemed like a serious scum fakeclaim to me" feels like it's coming from scum who's grasping at reasons to wagon someone rather than town actually thinking things through

You argue that T3 making that claim would never actually be done by scum, but it's just as easily argued that scum would never actually believe a town player would make that claim, which is what you're accusing me of now.

You say I'm scum that is grasping for reasons to push T3. If you think it's ridiculous or unbelievable that I actually think T3 is lying here, but you dont realize that what you are postulating looks just as ridiculous, you're the one not thinking clearly.

Going to have to disagree with you on T3.

no, i'm arguing that claim would never be *seriously* made by scum. and again, no, i'm not arguing you're scum who believed town!t3, i'm arguing you're scum who saw town!t3 was doing some bullshit nonsense, decided to play dumb, pretend you believe it, and then pretend to debunk it after "taking it seriously". see the difference?

[Datisi]

Someone isn't scum because they don't detect a joke

(1) nsg would disagree with you

(2) i was never saying that, my whole argument is that she very well knew it was a joke and is pretending otherwise in order to shitpush t3

i am wondering if i'm wrong because the push on ic seemed genuine enough, i imagine scum talked about him by now, and dunno if scum thinks to fake suspecting the ic

[Datisi]

it was a complete joke not a reaction test, but kyo miserably failed the reaction test.

though what's hilarious is that i actually kinda don't like this so fuck me i guess

town

why?

[Datisi]

IV no post

this was my idea for voting him the first time, ik he was around the site and i guessed he would've at least popped in as town

VOTE: innocentvillager

[Datisi]

theoretical disagree on "town doesn't care about looking good", but that's besides the point now - do you think kyouko was aware that her push on t3 was shaky and so scum!her wouldn't have made it in the first place? because it seemed to me like she was convinced her push was great and made sense so dunno if i agree there

[Datisi]

He's even said similarly in past games.

haven't heard this one before, mind linking the source?

i'm open to the idea of t3 being scum, hell i sure don't townread him, but the resons that kyouko had for pushing him were bad >_>

[Datisi]

ssbm_Kyouko
Has come out swinging in about four different directions in very rapid succession. Unclear if trigger happy or

was this a stylistic choice or did you forget to complete the read on this slot?

[Datisi]

i'm getting positive vibes from margot and i'm interested in what my evil clone thinks of her now

[Datisi]

With Kyouko, I haven't really noticed her ever reach for town cred when town. She mainly just pokes and prods, and then starts walling when she's got a better grasp of the game state. I'd like to see one of her scum games though to note the differences.

my immediate reaction was due to me being a player who highly cares about my own image as either alignment. then gets into shitfights with people who start accusing me of being scum because i care about how i look. since apparently not wanting to get yourself yeeted and directly hurt your own win condition is solely a scum trait. >_> /rant

anyway, haven't played with kyouko, so dunno about the meta there. though i'm sure there are players who don't reach for towncred as either alignment, so i'm not taking that as a surefire sign she's town.

[Datisi]

Why datsi? I think they made some pretty good posts which I believe was coming from town atm.

what posts of datsi did you like? i don't think i saw anything super townie

[Datisi]

ssbm_Kyouko
Has come out swinging in about four different directions in very rapid succession. Unclear if trigger happy or

was this a stylistic choice or did you forget to complete the read on this slot?

@margot

i dislike salsa's 253. not always coming from scum (and there has been some stuff from salsa later on i liked) but the "you are scumreading both me and this person that i voted once in very early game?? in what universe can we possibly be scum together?!?" as if that vote actually meant anything or is any kind of anti-partner indicative lol

IV no post

this was my idea for voting him the first time, ik he was around the site and i guessed he would've at least popped in as town

VOTE: innocentvillager

What do you mean? They're silent as scum?

yes and no - i know iv *hates* playing scum, and yesterday me/dwlee/datsi/iv all came out of a game where iv was scum soloing and he hated it so. my guess is that if he rolled scum twice in a row, it's likely he's exhausted from it and has no willpower to post.

re 261: salsa, can you explain the townreads on me and t3? this was originally the post that i thought i liked when i was speekskimming earlier, but i'm now not sure i do. needs a bit more elaboration on like. almost every read.

[Datisi]

to clear up the thing in 272:

i expressed myself a bit confusingly in 215. at the time of making both 215/208, i did believe you were making up your conviction about t3 being scum because of the fakeclaim (i no longer necessarily think so, mainly bc of your ic push, but that's besides the point right now). 215 isn't a contradiction to that, it was meant to be taken as "i think that kyouko, if she's scum, believes her t3 push to be townie-looking, therefore the

'she's not scum because she doesn't care about how she looks'

read doesn't apply to her there".

like, me saying "she was convinced her push was great and made sense" meant that i thought you believed that push would make sense from an outside perspective and would make people townread you / not think you're shitpushing,

not

that you genuinely believed t3 was scum because of his fakeclaim.

[Datisi]

yes and no - i know iv *hates* playing scum, and yesterday me/dwlee/datsi/iv all came out of a game where iv was scum soloing and he hated it so. my guess is that if he rolled scum twice in a row, it's likely he's exhausted from it and has no willpower to post.

See this sucks because I don't want to read IV this way but also I can't ignore this

there's been times where i rolled scum multiple games in a row and it made me want to move to the mountains with no access to internet, but it happens sometimes and it's a sucks2bu situation and it sucks overall but like, i can't simply just ignore it because i've seen first hand how much iv hates playing scum so

i know it's not a slam-dunk because town!iv also sometimes lurks and real-life is a thing and blah blah but like, i can't just ignore it >_>

[Datisi]

also t3 can you pls do something k thx

i asked why you called me town earlier on, can you get to that

[Datisi]

This post is reading way too deep into stuff

yes
almost as if it was made halfway through page 1 of the game
what's the point of this comment

i dislike salsa's 253. not always coming from scum (and there has been some stuff from salsa later on i liked) but the "you are scumreading both me and this person that i voted once in very early game?? in what universe can we possibly be scum together?!?" as if that vote actually meant anything or is any kind of anti-partner indicative lol

If the vote didn’t mean anything, they why did you vote

Mew

or a deep analysis of the vote? And later, you mostly probably said you were liking their reasoning behind it. So, you're reading them based on something that

actually meant nothing[/b] according to you?

MR

later said, it’s not SvS which I read that post later. I was surprised to see that she put both of us in the scum list which indicates scum!me and scum!

Mew

started the game by theatring which is ridiculous.

because i am aware that the "deep analysis" i make on page 1 about 2 posts is going to be meaningless soon. it's already meaningless now, i don't even remember what bullshit i said there. it's meant to get discussion going, but you can bet that once we're past the initial rvs stage, i'm not gonna be basing almost any of my read on mew on the analysis i made in 17.

later on, i said i liked his response. that's got nothing to do with his votes in the game, i thought his responses to my analysis and other people voting him were townie enough.

stop twisting my words. i didn't say that nothing mattered there, i said that your vote on mew will soon hold no significance whatsoever, or arguably already doesn't hold any significance whatsoever considering you're not even voting him anymore. so saying "me and mew cannot be scum because i voted him early game" is wrong and maybe purposefully ignorant. after thinking for 10 seconds, i can show you at least 2 games where scum entered the game theatering, probably more if i put any more brain into it.

and considering you're far from a newbie now, i'd expect you to know that scum very much can enter the game with throwaway votes on each other. so the fact that you're pretending that you voting mew somehow clears you from being partners is ridiculous, if not outright scummy.

[Datisi]

There are a few players being cautious around locking in as town too early, T3 and Datisi. I think both are townier than not right now but that also just gives me pause.

does this mean that you read us as town, but you're cautious about committing to the read? if so, what about us is giving you pause (and what do you find townie about t3?)? if that's not what you meant, can you rephrase?

[Datisi]

soo what’s going on guys anything interesting happen or nah

start reading the game and solving or i'm voting you out day 1

especially as you *just* did the "idk i don't feel like reading rn hehe" as scum

[Datisi]

This post is reading way too deep into stuff

yes
almost as if it was made halfway through page 1 of the game
what's the point of this comment

@t3 i would like you to actually answer things

[Datisi]

i wasn't trying to be rude towards you, i saw you (either purposefully or accidentally) misrepping me and i'm gonna react accordingly to that. i guess excuse me for not assuming good faith from a person i am suspicious of, in a game of mafia, where i know there are people that will not have good faith towards me?

the "i'm not that confident in doing theatre early so i wouldn't do it" seems like a maybe townie thing to say, unless salsa is pretty ballsy scum, and she doesn't strike me as such?

[Datisi]

If you're not sure about if I misinterpreted you deliberately or not then why do you behaved like that without questioning me first?

partly because i was already suspecting you prior to that for having underwhelming and underexplained reads, and i thought there would be more value in seeing how you react towards a direct, more aggressive accusation rather than a carefully worded tame question. partly because i am an asshole.

[Datisi]

hi dwlee, is salsa town or scum? i'm currently a bit ??? there and i want a second opinion

[Datisi]

salsa, why are you annoyed at us not being able to read you yet? do you think you've done very townie things that we should be able to see?

[Datisi]

i find it a bit odd that you're thinking in terms of scumranges when you've never seen scum!me (or town!me for that matter) before? unless you've done your research on me, i'd assume you don't know what my scumgame is like, so why the thought around it?

[Datisi]

if you pull up gamma emerald(datsi)'s iso, he doesn't talk very much about NM, just a throwaway comment about not remembering NM claiming miller before

hasn't this been the case for pretty much everyone here - i don't think anyone talked about n_m further than "oh look miller claim". why do you think it's partner indicative? or rather, do you think town!gamma *would* have spoken about n_m more?

[Datisi]

it's one thing to have history with someone, but i don't think having history with n_m means that someone would actually be attempting to... talk to him. like i have history with n_m and i'm likely to just ignore him for the time being, unless he does something very interesting. do you have any games you're thinking of as examples where gamma did interact with him early on?

pedit: this is @aristeia

[Datisi]

Nm is miller and therefore confirmed town very cool

i like to imagine this post was meant for the scum pt

[Datisi]

iv buddy you know i'm gonna murder you if you don't give an actual explanation for that scumread of me and if it's not a very good one, so

[Datisi]

can you please condense this into one post? comments on like every post since page one is gonna be annoying as hell

[Datisi]

can't wait for 5 pages of bloat that nobody is gonna wanna read, yay

[Datisi]

after looking at that iso for a whole 5 seconds, i can vote margot

VOTE: margot

Why?
None of Margot's posts pinged me either way.

yes
i think it was also something about her mentioning about having scumreads but not voting them, but that vote was mostly a "meh this person it's that town i can vote there and see what happens from it"

[Datisi]

Do I even have to say how towny Datisi is?

how is 291 the post that makes you say that?

Disengagement on day 1 is actually pretty strongly indicative for me because meta

town or scum indicative?

[Datisi]

shotgun reads?

[Datisi]

oh my god
the idea of the quotewall in the first place was so that you don't make 300 separate posts catching up and clogging the thread
and you didn't even have the decency to spoiler it

[Datisi]

i'm a bit busy for the next 4-5 hours so i'll properly read and respond to all the posts then (i've skimmed a bit), but i wanted to out a hot take in the meantime:

iv is likely scum. the fact that he hasn't returned from his catching up yet from yesterday (and that catchup was like 5 pages with non-explained reads? lol) is indicative that he doesn't want to be in this game. and as much as it pains me to say, if iv is red, aristeia is somewhat likely to be a partner. mainly because her reads seem to be kind of consensus-y/yeetbaity players, but there's absolutely no mention of iv anywhere, who i think would fit that description rn. her last game with me made me think she's anti bus, so i could see her be trying to divert attention from iv here.

[Datisi]

yeah, iv's use of the term shotgun reads pinged me for parroting so I searched his ego and he's only used it once before, also in a game with Datisi, also he was using the term to reference Datisi's usage of the term. They were both town.

i'm probably about to go off at iv myself but like in what universe is that scum!indicative? or town!indicative for that matter? even if he had never heard that term before, saw me use it, and decided to use it himself, how does that potentially reveal anything about his or my own alignment here?

[Datisi]

if you want me to vote iv you need but ask

i don't *want* you to vote iv, i want to see what you say about him without my direct prompting, and it seemed like that answer was "nothing"

did you have no thoughts on him prior to his posting on the last page?

[Datisi]

fun fact, that is the third time someone called me Darius on this site
also stop it

VOTE: InnocentVillager

That's e-1. What's your role?

i usually hate using the word, but this actually feels a bit opportunistic, especially with n_m in game. were you suddenly fine with ending the day?

[Datisi]

ok i'm gonna cram a response to iv's 570-573 here:

that's not the basis for your push, the basis was that you were gone from the game for 2 days, returned with lukewarm unexplained takes, then dipped again. that's just adding fuel to the fire. why could i not think that you're just scum here? you mean, after 9:12 where you were similarly often dipping towards the end and where you made sure to tell us how much you hate playing scum, you're suddenly *surprised* that i think your absence is scum!indicative for you?

afair, you were always active during my late afternoon to night into morning. maybe it just so happened that yesterday you were busy, which like, it's not impossible, i even said as much. but i am not going to be ignoring you absence here and i think you should've gotten concerned had i *not* said anything

also like lol why are you blaming me for your ass almost getting yeeted? last time i posted here, you were at 2/7 votes. i said i think your absence is scum!indicative and offered a partner. then i left the game to go to my driving lessons. and people decided to pile on. the fuck you blaming me for the flashwagon? saying i tried to push a fast one on you is fucking laughable, i wasn't even here!

yeah, i have a great explanation for this - you weren't here for 2 days, then you came with uttershite takes that you didn't explain at all, then you dipped at the time where i historically know you are active. *after* a sour scum loss in a game you admitted you hated and admitted how much you love playing town more. the fuck am i supposed to think? you want benefit of the doubt? the fact that i wasn't pushing for your head right this instant is that benefit of the doubt. (you can point at the flashwagon, but like come on. saying i was strongmanning it when votes just piled on like nothing is bad and we both know it.)

again, calling this an aggressive push from me is laughable, you know damn well this ain't even close to how my pushes can look. the answer is above. i know i tend to scumread you regardless of your alignment so i'm not going by your tone but instead by your takes and the amount of your presence. and so far it's been underwhelming, to say the least.

re 573 - would it have killed you to write that out at the time you were spitting takes? i'm not sure i immediately buy this read comes from town but at least it shows you have *some* sorta thought process. now, what towngame of mine are you thinking of / comparing it to when you say guiding the game with less presence?

[Datisi]

i need to go eat, i'll read the rest later

first thought is that there's scum on iv's wagon regardless of his own alignment, but i'll see later

[Datisi]

VOTE: T3
The stuff you’re saying about him makes sense though

i find it kind of odd that you're lowkey sheepng aristeia on t3 when she's pretty adamant in saying you're scum? do you have any opinion on that?

[Datisi]

Scum will subconsciously or intentionally copy town players, or players that are perceived to be town, both to pocket/buddy that player, and to appear more like that consensus TR to everyone else.

i think this sort of thing is pretty nai overall, but maybe i'm biased as a person who often picks up words and phrases other people use, both online and irl.

anyway, i want to point out that, after sleeping on it a bit, i don't get or like 420. mainly, what seems to be the case that he said opposite things on early analysis as town and as scum, therefore he holds the opposite opinions as town and as scum. and this game he did 10/12 because it is "townie" in the mindset he has as scum, therefore he's likely scum this game.

but here's where this kind of breaks down imo - i think it's fair to assume that we're more often likely to lie as town than as scum. so i'd also assume that, when he called early analysis townie when he was scum, he was saying that because he was lying and wanted to get something out. and likewise, when he said he finds it a waste of time as town, that that was what he genuinely believes.

so i'm not sure if it would make sense that he, if he's red here, made those posts in order to grab towncred for moving the game out of rvs. because i don't think someone's opinion on a thing (moving the game out of rvs) magically change once they rand the other alignment - only their words around it might. and as i feel like it's more likely he was being honest about it as town (that is, he doesn't find it to be townie), not sure the assumption that he would be doing that technique here as scum to grab towncred is a solid one.

if i'm misunderstanding the case, lemme know, but i'm not sure the "he has opposite opinions of early analysis as town and scum" is something that fully like, makes sense? the point about his reaction to my 17 is okay, but i don't think he was townreading me for that anyway? (i'll recheck at some point.)

i think a few people have said that kyouko has a flat scumgame or that they can read her by meta, and have said that she's townie here, and ii'm not willing to strongly go against that as i have had playstyle clashes before. but i do wanna point out i'm getting bad vibes from her and for others who know better to check my work and see if i'm seeing nothing or what.

[Datisi]

did you not read the part where I said I forgot this game existed

i did read it, and excuse me for not having blind faith that you're telling the truth about it?

i'm gonna be pestering you until you start developing takes. i don't think this is a secret by now, like i said this a lot in mbos, if i know a person who loves town and hates scum, and i see they're underperforming, i'm gonna be on their ass about it.

[Datisi]

getting narrativy and stretching here but maybe you were hoping the flashwagon woukd happen due to ur influence and could ultimately claim no responsibility. apparently the game thinks u are town for some reason. guess it’s in the 20 pages I didn’t read idk

i mean, if i'm scum and you're town, a flashwagon happening on you and ending in a hammer after i wrote one (1) "btw guys i still think iv is scummy" post and then dipped the thread is absolutely scum!me's wet dream. but i think scum!me would also have to be very unrealistic to expect that to happen, so the idea that i made that post with exact thought of "hah, maybe this one post will make a sudden flashwagon and hammer and i won't have to do anything else today" is like lol?

[Datisi]

it’s one thing to pester me about it until I develop takes and another to push strongly for my elim 24 hrs into my entrance

do you really think scum me would fake forgetting about the game? why would I do that/whats the scum indication behind it for you?

i never pushed to kill you. i never asked for a hammer, i said myself the flashwagon was odd and probably had scum on it. don't misrep me.

yeah, i don't see why you wouldn't? like, 9:12 literally just ended, i can see scum!you being tired and deciding to just Not Post to then later on go "hehe sorry guys i like totally forgot about this game lol"

in that case i'd assume you also have at least some faith in your partners to not fully fuck up but eh, that's too far out there to speculate i think

[Datisi]

also, I gave initial first impression takes and why were they shit again? just because I had you as lolscum and didn’t explain them? I hope you are calling out any read with no explanation as shit then because if not I don’t see what in particular made mine bad

you know me much better than to call me scum like that. if you're seeing something i'm doing as scummy, you better have a proper explanation for that because if not, i will be left to wonder if it's scum!iv changing his tactic with me when he couldn't pocket me by townreading me last game

[Datisi]

i love when they fight about me

[Datisi]

okay maybe not that very exact scenario but certainly there’s plenty of scum!motivation for u to start pushing me right when I’m not responding and u are townread no? I think ppl expressed concerns with my catchup or whatever idk it all just seemed like kind of opportunistic timing maybe baiting an early wagon on me

certainly this scenario that actually arose was a really good result for scum!you

ah yes, this scenario, where now half the game is townreading you for throwing a fit for being wagoned early, exactly like scum!me planned

why couldn't think have happened in 2175

[Datisi]

why couldn't this* have happened in 2175

ok this was a bit of a shitpost, but that's actually making me thonk on whether iv is town here if the general public is actually reading him as townie?

still need actual reads tho

[Datisi]

i'm getting the same feeling from t3 i got in mbos

t3 can you do something readable pls

[Datisi]

i just can't imagine scum!me going "ugh im so exhausted, im literally going to NOT POST and pretend i was just gone, instead of at least checking in with the thread and joining RVS"

i mean, i dunno, i actually could see that happening

ugh. is it bad that i'm getting cold feet on iv now? like, i don't think the "forgot about the game" is necessarily a lie (since i remember a game where a town player forgot about a game). IF it's not a lie then i think it's town!indicative since scum would also post in the scum pt so smaller odds of forgetting. but i can't really tell if he's telling the truth about forgetting or not

the ate from iv is a bit annoying i won't lie, but it seems to be going much further than it did in the recently finished 9:12, but i know that's not something i should base my read on

[Datisi]

then again, i know i just said i could see that happening, but surely scum!iv would know that me/datsi/dwlee would be paying a tree to him, especially as we just witnessed him saying how much he hates scum, and that we would start getting suspicious of him when he wouldn't be posting, so he'd be entering the game with some pressure on him already and uuuuuugh

[Datisi]

Also, his read on me is like, honestly the biggest towntell I can pinpoint, my play here is literally the antithesis of the game he’s comparing to where I was scum, so regardless of your read on me IV should be obvious town

can you explain this? why is iv town for noticing a difference in your play between the two games?

[Datisi]

Someone pointed out you get a day start pm so it's weird to me he didn't post RVS seeing that pm

so i went to check, the game i'm thinking of also had a daystart role pm, and a town player still somehow forgot about it so /shrug

i guess it's theoretically possible

[Datisi]

VOTE: t3

too many slots feel like mud right now, this game is tiring. i feel weird feelings about mew? like he's plenty active in the game but i cannot figure out what he's trying to do and whether he's trying to do anything in the first place. it's weird.

also, i am kind of disappointed nobody tried to interact with my discussion of kyouko's case. or to convince me she's town. oh well.

[Datisi]

tldr what are your reads then?

[Datisi]

Datisi, datsi, T3, ssbm_Kyouko, innocentvillager, Salsabil Faria, Dwlee99.
^ my town read list.

the tldr on datsi/iv/salsa/dwlee? sorry if you explained already, just link if you have (or alternatively yell at me to find it myself)

[Datisi]

why is salsa hard town and why are you voting a null town?

[Datisi]

VOTE: t3

too many slots feel like mud right now, this game is tiring. i feel weird feelings about mew? like he's plenty active in the game but i cannot figure out what he's trying to do and whether he's trying to do anything in the first place. it's weird.

also, i am kind of disappointed nobody tried to interact with my discussion of kyouko's case. or to convince me she's town. oh well.

datisi i feel like we have some kind of opposing reads so id like to reconcile that a bit?

i think T3 is townish for reasons explained

mew at least seems like very open with his thoughts and is willing to explain everything i guess and not really playing in a lamist way so that slot seemed fine on gut? isn't it good that you can't really find an "agenda" from him so to speak?

if ur that disappointed on the kyo thing can u quote me and ill take a look?

alright, let's dance

my t3 read/vote stems from a few things. one is recent meta of games i have played with him (mini normal 2226, town vs mbos 13, scum). mainly, in the town game it was kind of obvious very quickly that he's town because he was putting in genuine effort to meta me, actually made a case, etc. in mbos 13, i did townread him during d1-2, but most of his iso here kinda reminds me of that there, like there's obvious "solving" and "giving opinions on posts" and stuff but i'm missing the actual passion behind it, it feels kinda half-assed

now i know this has some odds of being wrong since meta changes from game to game etc but it's the mode i'm operating on rn, and also his vote of you was a bit oof so. i reread your points for townreading him in 694 and honestly the only thing i can say is "/shrug" because you might as well be right, but i absolutely do not see it

i can't find an "agenda" from mew sure, but frankly part of his posts reminded him of me when playing scum, when i'm not sure which direction to push the game in or i'm not sure if i'm in danger of dying, so i make longer posts detailing my thought process that don't exactly lead anywhere or shake the ground too much. like he's explaining everything sure, but it feels like there's something missing there. again this might be party unfair of me because saying that he doesn't have reads is wrong and i did like some of his early responses, but. call it gut i guess.

the kyouko thing was 629.

[Datisi]

okay
i feel like i'm struggling this game because a lot of slots fall into the "you did some not good and not bad and all together it's a mess" category of reads and that's bad

@aristeia, what's your reads looking like right now? thoughts on iv since his recent batch of posts? townreading everyone outside of your solve, or?

[Datisi]

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=87504 is my most recent scumgame.

i don't do second hand meta
elaborating on your existing reads would do you more favours

Fire and Blood:

T3, IV

what do you think of iv's recent batch of posts?

[Datisi]

IV also just never goes to ELo without a confirmed inno on him, because if he's town then he'll be mis-elim bait for the rest of the game.

disagree with this, i think iv generally does make his alignment more obvious as the game progresses, i think he loses steam as scum somewhat quickly

kind of disagree with 858, i feel like a scum!player who's actually thinking of changing the ic's mind would've just explained where the ic was wrong immediately than wait to be asked about it. could be an ate attempt i guess, but that overall kinda strikes me as a post more likely to come from town?

i feel kinda dumb writing this out when i haven't even properly thought about mew's earlier responses to me but whatever

This is especially given the fact that all of IV's reasons for voting back at me are bizarre when you actually stop and think about it for five seconds. Like, asking for a claim is scum indicative? Trying to vote out someone you think is scum is scum indicative? What isn't scum indicative in your book IV? Anyone voting for anyone is scum. Is the only Townie in this game N_M?

this feels a bit dishonest. like it feels like iv's reasons for scumreading her, but dumbed down and out of context to the point of being nonsensical.

i would also like for you to talk more about your iv scumread other than "yep, still scum". and why is iv/mew voting you scum!indicative for you? do you genuinely believe that two scum got so scared of you they're tying themselves together in order to push you?

ok i see there's also the "iv went after you and t3" which uh, hasn't iv been vocally defending t3 for like, a long time now?

bottom of page 35, need a break bc brain hurt, be back in a bit.

[Datisi]

The way Mewtaph is essentially going "I'll say why this is true later" is reminding me of RC in another game. Very similar play in regards to that, both players had returned from a hiatus.

you mean like in that game where rc was scum and you were his partner?

[Datisi]

On Kyouko, I read what you wrote on them and I largely agree if that makes sense. I don't know if my townreads exactly lines up in the realm of things scum!Kyouko wouldn't do and I want to relook my read there at some point, maybe even D1 if you're specifically looking there for potential scum.

i don't think there's any pressure/hurry to do this, but if you've got free time to invest in the game, this might be a good idea. i don't wanna push kyouko because of two reasons (1) derp on ic (2) most people seemed to townread her and claim that she has polarizing play, and they seem to know better than me. otherwise, i'm really not impressed with her slot i guess... i would like her to adress my 629? (*cough* @kyo)

[Datisi]

datisi what do you think of mew's latest posts? i kind of think they're open and genuine and super weird in a way that scum wouldn't be able to fabricate well.

ironically enough, mew is also reminding me of rce that game i mentioned above... in the sense that he's definitely reading the game and has reads and is solving, but my eyes are completely glazing over everything and none of it is properly registering as ai. which may be my fault, idk.

can you point out what posts you find open / genuine / super weird for scum specifically? you might as well be right, i just don't see it rn

[Datisi]

also, my own take currently is that t3 is scum and at least one person going "idk lol i just don't see why t3 is scummy" is a partner

[Datisi]

My scumdar is broken this game apologies

i am both relating to this very hard and annoyed that you're not doing anything rn (not a scumread, before someone says that)

you talked about your vote on aristeia?

[Datisi]

Currently my readlist is like this:

Sweeter than the first Dewdrops of the Morning:

Datisi

Foamy Ocean Waves upon the Sand:

Dwlee, Salsa, Kyouko

A Forest Blooming in the Springtime:

Margot, Mewtaph

The taste of ash in the air after a Great Fire:

Datsi, Not_Mafia, ChaosOmega

Fire and Blood:

T3, IV

Aristeia
ssbm_Kyouko
datsi
T3
ChaosOmega
innocentvillager

If this list contains all scum I get bragging rights post-game

er, other than kyouko and aristeia herself, your thoughts seem pretty aligned actually? like

what slots do you feel so misaligned on you're voting her?

[Datisi]

I like how dwlee's posting has depth that feels closer to [their] town game than [their] scum game. I also don't think scum![them] would approach my slot by voteparking me because I don't think scum![them] really wants to push town!me since [they've] played with me before.

Also idk when Aristeia has seen my scum game to know this

this seems like an alt problem and not a scumread problem

unless you're saying what she's saying is wrong? but it would feel odd to lie about meta in order to townread someone

[Datisi]

are you claiming she is doing that, or does 902 have no relevance to your read on her?

[Datisi]

is she telling lies there? because if not, i don't feel like prying about a potential alt is gonna net you any good

good catch on n_m though, @aristeia?

[Datisi]

interesting, shame i can't offer meaningful discussion there

The way Mewtaph is essentially going "I'll say why this is true later" is reminding me of RC in another game. Very similar play in regards to that, both players had returned from a hiatus.

you mean like in that game where rc was scum and you were his partner?

thoughts on this post? i thought it was funny

[Datisi]

he said he townread mew because mew reminded him of rce last game (and spoiler, rce wasn't town)

i don't want to say this is a surefire scumslip because like, other than the game being widely available, there's three people from that game here, but like, what is that lmfao

[Datisi]

lol fuck lmfao

which game did you play with RC?

[Datisi]

lol fuck lmfao

which game did you play with RC?

An offsite game, run by none other than shellyc.

ah, so that's where RC plays now? thanks

[Datisi]

while i don't disagree, i feel like miller claim is at least somewhat town!indicative from n_m

thoughts on t3? on my thoughts on t3? i don't think you townread him, why ignore that in favour of n_m?

pedit: @gamma

[Datisi]

why are we fighting when we could be voting t3

seriously he's jumping on any viable vote with minimal explanation

[Datisi]

what was the slip again?

[Datisi]

i notice now that margot didn't address the things i sent her way and is overall still being largely underwhelming so

VOTE: margot

preferred vote still t3 but i don't feel like i'm getting anything done vanity wagoning there

[Datisi]

He said something was scummy cause of a lie but in a different game had said provable lies aren't scum! indicative.

didn't this happen in mbos and not here? unless he did the same thing here somewhere and i missed it?

[Datisi]

VOTE: t3

in the 15 minutes since my margot vote, i've convinced myself that both t3 and margot are scum and that i'm a god of mafia so consider this a "i currently prefer voting t3 but margot is next on my list if she don't step up real soon"

[Datisi]

their* meta

also iv since when do you do meta research? i lowkey cannot remember you doing that as either alignment

[Datisi]

i mostly skimmed through it because it didn't really seem productive - looking back now, i don't agree with ari's take that you're being like, carefully manipulative or whatever, but her play otherwise vaguely reminds me of 2226 (and i'm still unsure if i have a solid townread on you) that i didn't feel a need to interfere

[Datisi]

i don't know, i don't really townread her either, my reads are fucked rn

[Datisi]

y'all just *really* want to kill any desire i have to play this game, huh?

[Datisi]

My reasoning is in 526, and was expanded upon in later posts.

where. i looked through your iso, the only post could find that actually elaborated was the one i quoted previously and said i hated?

IV came into the game late, and made reads that were completely out of step with the rest of the game. It looked to me like Scum coming in late and making reads based on what they wanted from the game state rather than what was actually going on in the game. Everything that has happened since then has cemented that view in my mind.

why did his reads give you that impression when he did almost nothing to actually push them through? like, that was my original issue with him, nonsensical reads that had no backing whatsoever. how much thought did you put into this read? and how has the rest of the game ~cemented~ that for you?

Also, T3 is Town. Sorry.

why.

[Datisi]

so we're approaching 3 days left to deadline, and the wagons are completely scrambled. t3 and margot are still my preferred votes but i'm getting a sinking feeling they're town. iv doesn't feel like scum and n_m is a complete policy that i also think is town. fuck me

????? VOTE: dwlee ?????

[Datisi]

idk

i'm still anxious about how soon you tried to be pals this game and also you've been doing very little which feels uncharacteristic so uh idk

[Datisi]

agh

i'm still sick and i woke up at 3am for the second day in a row and my brain is not at full capacity, i skimmed the past two pages and ahsksjakaj i guess i don't wanna vote dwlee anymore?

going back to my early suspicion VOTE: kyouko

i will say that i have kinda liked gamma being solvey but i would be kidding myself if i said i actually knew how to read him

where was i going with this i don't know

oh yeah, margot better appear real fucken fast if she wants to convince me t3 is town because at some point i am going to start acting stupid and voting there because my caring is getting lower and lower this game

ok i'll be around hopefully, yell if i am needed

[Datisi]

Datisi I'm not sure if he's town but if he's scum he doesnt have the influence to power wolf and if he's town will be NKed at some point so not limming there at all toDay.

how do these two things go together? like, if i'm town, you think i'm so important that scum will have to kill me, but if i'm scum, i don't hold influence to powerwolf?

[Datisi]

Also also, if I ever hydra with Datisi I really hope he’s played Ace Attorney: Spirit of Justice because my leading idea for the hydra name is probably spoilery for that game.

oooh i just saw this
i have not but if opportunity arises i could figure out how to play it or find a playthrough or something

[Datisi]

oh, t3 voted margot, interesting

dwlee, can you respond to 1100 i am actually interested in that

[Datisi]

i'm sorry aristeia, my fever got worse today and i am not my usual charming self right now the only reason i am her eis bc deadline is soon, my current brainpower is below zero otherwise

[Datisi]

the only reason i am here is bc deadline is soon

unfortunate typo

[Datisi]

t3, why did you vote margot

i kinda expected you to vote iv there

should i check t3 iso before posting this

yes

will i

no

[Datisi]

oh, t3 voted margot, interesting

dwlee, can you respond to 1100 i am actually interested in that

No I don't disagree with it really

why did you vote her for it?

[Datisi]

ok, my fears of a certain thing happening have been proven wrong, i can vote t3 now

VOTE: t3

y-2, aka nm-1

[Datisi]

i would lie if i said i'm not getting cold feet here, with how lethargic this game has been, it kind of feels like scum are just fine with what's going on and t3 has been on the radar for quite a while now

but not like there haven't been other pushes to counter him

ugh

[Datisi]

ask me a bit later

[Datisi]

ngl i also wouldn't mind voting margot out, or at least running her up, i just feel kinda bad pressing people for reads when they're having a hard time irl

[Datisi]

not a bad case. agreed with kyouko that the times given are probably nai. my one issue is that it's looking at older posts and not new ones, but /shrug. not completely happy with the iv yeet, but we need one, so. consider this agreement to vote iv if needed.

[Datisi]

well i was gonna wonder what in the fuck was that n_m vote switch but oh well

also lol he lies about being miller

anyway

t3 had chance to vote iv when his wagon was growing and yet he didn't

VOTE: t3

[Datisi]

that post has too many mistakes but whatever i'm phoneposting and gotta run

we should kill t3

[Datisi]

Wait so why do you think the wagons were SvS?

Datisi has talked about this in other games
if there are 2 competing wagons and the wagons are avoiding voting each other like the plague then they're s/s

aka the iconeum tell

i have made notes if needed but tldr is that at 1190 t3 was leading wagon and iv was main counterwagon and t3 didn't vote iv despite iv's wagon being the best odds of saving himself and decided to sit on a vanity

then iv did the same thing essentially except he voted himself

two people as main wagons avoiding each other like the plague is more likely to be s/s who don't want to bus (@dwlee, i called out kerset/cakez for this on d1 in that c9++ game if you remember)

[Datisi]

it's not a slam dunk by any means but with n_m dead and a few people seeming kinda not aligned with iv, my poe is narrow and i don't townread t3 at all so idk

[Datisi]

But didn't you do that tell in MBOS and it was wrong?

don't think i did, considering that by the time we had the first scum flip in lylo, i already had the correct solve for other reasons

i sometimes call this out as "oh wow these two people don't wanna vote each other" but until one of them flips scum, it doesn't actually mean anything

[Datisi]

yeah, sometimes i make notes of people who suspiciously don't vote each other when i feel like they should

but i won't actually scumread someone for it until one of the pair has flipped red

[Datisi]

ik early on in the game i said ari might be iv partner but rn i'm not sure i see it

she did spend quite a bit of time arguing and calling him manipulative and i'm not sure if it was really planned for him to go down so yeah idk i think she's town rn

[Datisi]

i'm not about that life, but if you have something you want to be seeped on, i can hear you out now

[Datisi]

sheeped on

what is proofreading

[Datisi]

@t3 why are you voting chaos

@dwlee who do you want to vote today that isn't t3

[Datisi]

i see you want a chance to kill me before outing your "reads" because you know i would see right through them

that's fair

[Datisi]

considering chaos was a pretty early vote on iv and his content seemed fine otherwise, i'm gonna need a bit more than "poe"

[Datisi]

considering chaos was a pretty early vote on iv and his content seemed fine otherwise, i'm gonna need a bit more than "poe"

i forgot he voted iv

do you intend to say anything substantial this day phase or are you already going into antispew mode

[Datisi]

Do we wanna just kill t3 and regroup tomorrow?

We have a VT claim that we don't want to live to ELO. Running up anyone else we could out a PR, so we should just kill t3

this post is mostly a prodge but also me endorsing the above

idk if there is a point in talking about things today if we're def killing t3, just gives scum more ammo to aim the nk. just yeet t3 and go from there imo

[Datisi]

i was about to enter this day with "dwlee gives me same vibes they gave me in a different game recently and they were scum, and enchant possibly hammered their partner" and then >_>

i was barely paying any attention to this game on d2, will properly go over some things later irl today

[Datisi]

Datisi
MargotRosa
Salsabil Faria
Aristeia
ChaosOmega

2 scum in this 5 I think. Probably not Chaos I feel, he seemed too real in some posts iirc

why is gamma the only person you're clearing here?

[Datisi]

Datisi votes for T3 -> 5 votes <says it's NM-1, it's not>

5 votes (with 7 to yeet) *is* nm-1 though

i'm gonna write freely and see where i end up

alive people are -

datisi

, margot, salsa, ari, kyouko,

enchant

, gamma, chaos
i'm town, enchant is ic, that leaves 2 scum in the remaining 6

if we're in the easy world - margot is town for her post that buried iv, kyouko is town for the relatively early vote on iv, ari is town for her attacks on iv and accusing him of manipulation, and chaos was attacking iv for a long while and didn't budge.

in that easy world, that leaves gamma and salsa. i am interested in what those two will present today.

however, the other two i kinda wanna be cautious about are kyouko and margot. kyouko is *probably* not scum because i recall someone saying her scumgame is flat and that she was efforting this game or making cases or whatever, but eh. margot, while her post on iv was pretty solid and helped convince our ic to vote there, it keeps nagging at me that that vote was made a bit lateish on the wagon, in a position where she couldn't have voted t3 since she kept defending him

(sidenote, this is what i was thinking of on d1 when i said i was feeling cold feet on margot/t3, i thought there was a mason soft there)

i'm still not feeling like playing mafia right now so these are notes for people to know vaguely where my head is at if they want to interact with me / for me to know what i want to look at later

vote-wise i'll start here: VOTE: salsabil

[Datisi]

I know Aristea and Margot had interactions with IV that make them both look not partnered. I feel like Datisi did too. The problem with that is it only leaves Salsa, and there are 2 scum left. Somewhere amongst those 3 there is scum theatre.

why is gamma town.

[Datisi]

okay, explain

[Datisi]

i am tired because irl so let's call this a semi vla and i am getting to this game tomorrow and putting together something coherent goddammit

kyouko, i assume there's no point in asking you to *actually* explain your gamma read?

gamma, where's your head at today?

salsa, you have townreads on like, everyone except one person in the game, yet you don't seem too concerned about that?

[Datisi]

okay i had another day that was shite metal-health-wise but i am making an effort in this game god fucking dammit

re 1380 - i'm asking about solid proof. something that i can use. now i know people have their own meta tells that they use and don't wanna give away but this does not convince me whatsoever.

That thought was constructed during the night phase tbh
And there were others off wagon (but in reality I do think that initial assessment was probably wrong)

can you elaborate on this? like, i know you walked back and said you think it's wrong, but if it's something you started thinking during the night phase, that means there was some more thought to it, no? i'd like to hear about it if possible

I don't remember of telling that I have townread on everyone.

post 1367. you said you're townlocking me and margot. you say one scum in datsi/ari (where you think ari is town, so you think datsi is scum). then you say one scum in kyouko and chaos, where you then say you have a townread on both of them. and it kind of looked like you weren't *too* concerned about it. i get not feeling like efforting but it still struck me as odd and potentially scummy. maybe a tad opportunistic? you don't wanna distract from datsi now that his wagon is finally building up? i dunno, i will decide later.

ok, new page, there's one extra vote on datsi besides you, maybe not. though 1411 feels... icky, i guess? like, bussing is a thing that exist, do you think your one vote on datsi is that clearing from you two being s/s?

oh no, i need to actually reread about datsi and ari to make a decision here, pain.

though, reading the ari/chaos argument, i gotta say i'm not sure i see what scum!aristeia is doing here. i kinda feel like if she were scum with iv, she'd either have shut the fuck up when the ic was townreading iv for his emotional outbursts, OR she would've shaded iv and then went through with the bus. doing one but not the other feels like a move that would be done solely for the "see i never do that!" wifom points, and in my experience, scum does that very rarely, as it generally doesn't really pay off.

the only issue i have with the above theory of mine is that i called out aristeia as a possible iv partner a bit before that (iirc). i think that could've been a good incentive to start distancing early, especially if they weren't sure they'd be able to pocket me / couldn't kill me due to the existence of the ic.

why the fuck are we massclaiming and outing a clearable townie (vig)
we're not doing that, stop it

mmm, does a datsi partner say 1467... actually probably? would anyone ever buy that ari/datsi are s/s if datsi were to flip red anyway? probably not. so sure, why not.

salsa I'm just hanging on to my earlier TR

this is also gonna need some more elaboration. can you link/tl;dr what's so townie about her? and how her current posting compares?

alright, i'm caught up. gonna take a break, then relook at salsa (to see if i scumread her enough that i feel like forcing people into having that conversation) and datsi/ari (to see where i fall in that arguement). if anyone has any q's for me in the meantime, lemme know.

[Datisi]

skimmed salsa's iso. didn't see anything that made me want to move my vote nor something that gave me enough confidence to actually push it. whoever has a strong read on her slot, sell me on it.

@salsa, can you elaborate on your read on iv throughout day 1? it went from townreading him for an emotional outburst (i think? it's a bit late here) to not townreading him for reasons and i want a bit elaboration here

[Datisi]

i also kinda went through gamma and aristeia, and brain empty. i feel like my reasoning for ari!town is at least somewhat solid (at least until tomorrow until i hopefully gain more strength to actually read through what she was pushing against iv and the context around it), and gamma does look bad i guess, but idk. i'm not vibing with that read either. maybe the fact he townbinned quite a bit of people in that one post? i thought scum would've been using my absence to push me? maybe not necessarily. anyway, subject to change when he addresses whatever i asked him in the bigger post.

what are the odds the solve is something stupid like salsa/margot?

[Datisi]

for what it's worth, you would not be alive if I were scum.

please elaborate on why i wouldn't be alive if you were scum here, considering our current nightkills have been an innocent child and a person who was HEAVILY softing investigative.

[Datisi]

What happened in mini 2226?

One of Aristeia’s strong SRs (MegAzumarill) was eliminated D1 and flipped town, and D2 she lacked any conviction to her play. This whole game she’s been pushing me and T3 as partners, T3 flipped town yesterday, and she’s shown none of the same doubt she had in that game. And before you ask Aristeia was town in mini 2226.
I also feel like there’s similar tonal indicators to her play in MBOS 13.

my issue with this is that aristeia's pushback against iv being townread for ate heavily reminded me of her pushback against prism controlling the game in 2226. and how does she tonally remind you of mbos?

[Datisi]

That thought was constructed during the night phase tbh
And there were others off wagon (but in reality I do think that initial assessment was probably wrong)

can you elaborate on this? like, i know you walked back and said you think it's wrong, but if it's something you started thinking during the night phase, that means there was some more thought to it, no? i'd like to hear about it if possible

also you missed/ignored this

[Datisi]

gonna be another lazy day because i am tired

i thought how if i were forced to vote between ari and datsi, that i would be voting datsi, but i still have a preference for voting outside. datsi's recent play (and lack thereof) doesn't strike confidence though, so i'm fine with getting a claim and going from there.

i guess the reason why i'm getting cold feet there is that datsi just seems unaligned with a lot of people? like, he's not partners with ari. don't think he's partners with kyouko. who's left? salsa, who just decided to votepark her partner today and townbin everyone else (?) chaos, who had 3 scumreads on day 1, 2 of which were his buddies (??) margot, who murdered iv and took away his chance at quickhammering t3 (???)

i guess salsa would make *some* sense as a partner who would be hoping that the town yeets someone else without her help, but eh. i'd be lying if i said i have any better ideas (that i'm certain in) on who should at least be claiming right now.

[Datisi]

come on, i make a show when i'm bussing, this would be way too boring.

pedit: hmm. actually not sure how much of a fan of that post i am considering i've been doing basically nothing since shortly before the end of day 1?

[Datisi]

can you point out the crumb you saw?

[Datisi]

huh. i'm confused on how you can tell that that is exactly a track (considering i don't think i've ever seen a tracker crumb as blatantly as that), but 1282 is gamma's second post during d2, it definitely feels like some sorta crumb. though if gamma is scum, i don't get why he would crumb something like that and then not claim it once he's asked for a claim.

[Datisi]

well yeah, I don't get why he would even vote you if he set up this elaborate crumb to make you think he's a tracker who knows you're the vig? eh, we're probably gonna have to yeet him now anyway.

[Datisi]

so what was apparently the point of 1282 then?

[Datisi]

also, @margot, i think saying that i was "very confident" you were scum at that point is a big exaggeration, but.

Spoiler:

VOTE: T3

One of these days I'll be right. Going by the math

VOTE: T3

One of these days I'll be right. Going by the math

Sounds like you two have history. Anything we should know about T3's town game? I trust that you'll be able to read them particularly well.. unless..

Given my limited experience, what I will say is that if you think T3 is definitely scum, they are probably town. If you think they might be scum, they are probably town. If you think they are town, contact mods, bc they have been hacked.

Not a huge fan of Dwlee, or SF right now. There is also a lot of ATE coming from Mewtaph's slot that I really don't like. Nothing is grabbing me hard yet though. May just be frazzled by the three quarters of the ELO of the game I just lost being present

UNVOTE:

@Dwlee Sorry, I just read through page 3 properly lol. I didn't realise you had been conf towned by a conf town

What happened there though. That was fukn weird as

this was your iso up to that point. it was mostly fluff / unengaging posts, except for the one post, where you were talking about t3 meta (so again practically nothing important), and shading a few people but were not voting any of them or trying to sort through those reads. it felt like a fluff post meant to make you look busy but not actually doing anything. which is good enough for a page 4 vote.

[Datisi]

also i doubt town has a tracker or another pr after 2 ICs and a 1 shot vig

yeah, that.

ugh. i'm anxious about this yeet, but i don't have any better ideas that i'm confident in actually pushing through.

@ari, do you actually think salsa/gamma is likely?

[Datisi]

who else do you think is a viable gamma partner here?

[Datisi]

i would never roll scum and break your heart, i am not like that >_>

[Datisi]

i'm worried because chaos' day 1 scumreads were iv/dwlee/datsi. is he crazy enough as scum to do that?

[Datisi]

thank you for self hammering while i was still trying to re-evaluate your slot, that was real nice. yes, i am aware i probably wouldn't have made a difference, but it's still annoying.

so... is this grounds for massclaim?

[Datisi]

2 ic's, a 1-shot (?) vig, and some protective/blocking fuckery. it is a gypyx setup after all...

i think the appropriate course here is massclaim, considering we just got saved from a 6p mylo. if someone strongly opposes this, speak up i guess.

@ari, what are your thoughts on the game after datsi green flip?

[Datisi]

also

@mod

(and @everyone else), i'll be v/la practically every tuesday and thursday going forward. uni started, and those two days have hell of a schedule for me. i'll probably be able to pop in here and there during those days, but don't expect much.

[Datisi]

true, but we already have two conftowns, you and enchant. i feel like the third one would really be useful right now. they did the job if getting us back to evens (meaning we get an extra yeet), and it's very unlikely they will stop two more kills to get us another yeet.

of course, one of you/enchant could be the something that stopped the kill, in which case i don't necessarily see the harm in outing because again, very unlikely you stop two more kills and you are already a target anyway, but /shrug.

[Datisi]

they did the job of* getting us back to odds*

whoops.

[Datisi]

mmm, i guess, they can claim if we run them up after all. aight, bed time, see y'all at some point. i'll try to Actually Effort this damn game today.

[Datisi]

The only way I see this happening is if scum has a one-shot second night kill

this is not possible.

quick things i wanna put out: i want everyone who is voting salsa to give a case on who her partner is. doubly so for people who are certain in that vote. my biggest issue with yeeting gamma yesterday was that he seemed unaligned with pretty much everyone, and none of his voters actually took this into consideration. and he flipped green. so i'm forcing the issue now.

second, now that margot has hinted at a power role but apparently not a blocking/saving role, i am very skeptical of her. a newbie just finished (that i was backup modding) where she as scum purposefully no killed and then fakeclaimed pr. i haven't read most of that game, so idk how associates/tone compare, but i plan to take a look tonight when i come home from uni.

also, something about 1635 rings wrong, how she's listing the known town power and saying it's already unbalanced, while not taking into consideration her own role and how it compares.

granted, that could be a 9000 iq play of a protective who did get a save, in which case lol sorry, but that's not the vibe i'm getting rn and i have to say that.

be back tonight, maybe i'll pop in here and there if anyone has burning questions for me. cheers.

[Datisi]

im honestly very scared that kyouko is right

i would like to sheep what enchant/kyouko think because I know I can't trust myself to be objective about Datisi

this feels like utter bullshit.

VOTE: aristeia

i don't believe at all that you'd actually have trouble reading me right. your read on me is never based only on emotion, you've shown you know how to read my play. if you think i'm scum, say that i'm scum. give your arguments. but you won't, because you know i'm not, so you're going to hide behind the conftown who happens to scumread me and then tomorrow cry over what you've done and push another misyeet, yeah?

i'm on mod duty rn, so i'll respond to margot/kyouko after that, but i wanted to pop in to call out whatever this is.

[Datisi]

its not my fault you are never around

?

take a stance. what is your read on me.

[Datisi]

like you will show up to complain about things after we stumble but you aren't invested in stopping us from stumbling.

even now you feel extremely reactive and its weird that your read on me would flip that much.

the first part can only be applied to gamma, realistically. i said why i wasn't "invested" in stopping that yeet, i didn't have anything else that i felt confident enough to strongarm through when it was pretty clear the game was locked on him and wouldn't be able to properly continue without his death and his flip because if the day's yeet was wrong, y'all would've gone back to him.

i'm invested now. those of you who aren't conftown are to give actual partner reads now. the way everyone pretty much handwaved my worries about gamma's yeet was bad.

call me reactive, but tell me why is that supposed to be scummy. and my read on you didn't flip solely because of your suspicion on me. it flipped because gamma flipped green (second misyeet in a row you pushed through), you entered the day egging on a salsa yeet (despite her being pretty much your only suspect besides gamma yesterday and gamma flipping green - no reevaluation anywhere?), and as soon as you're able to egg me on and hide behind a conftown, you jump on it. it's getting worse and worse.

[Datisi]

if your read on me flipped when gamma flipped green then why did you ask me about who i susp and then do nothing when salsa got run up?

you really were ok with me running up yet another player when your read on me had already flipped and salsa was getting votes?

??????

she got "run up" to two votes, and then margot unvoted - both of those things happened while i was asleep. by the time i checked the thread, she was on one vote, and she told everyone to wait for her to post things. what exactly do you expect for me to do there? like, i literally said "i want everyone who is voting to give a clear stance on who is the partner of the person they're voting", what do you imagine i was gonna do there when she was on one (1) vote and on standby while we were waiting for her to get back?

[Datisi]

like you're saying i was ok with you running salsa up, but (1) by the time i checked the thread, her being "run up" is an exaggeration, (2) i literally said i want more justification from people who are voting so what is your issue here?

[Datisi]

my reads are a mess rn, my priority was getting out what i thought at the time about margot and to give a general "pause and give me better justification for your votes".

pedit: she was on one vote and a general "i will post later, pls don't vote me rn" agreement when i checked in - that is not run up

[Datisi]

id guess salsa because she seemed to be trying to set up me/datsi dichotomy yesterday

beyond that im clueless

I'm spiritually voting salsa but I am also kind of worried in general and I want to give Datisi/Enchant the chance to actually participate.

this is you very obviously being in favour of her yeet. i'm not exactly impressed by "hey guys we should wait for the ic and the widely townread v/la player to have a chance to give their thoughts "

[Datisi]

"salsa is my top suspect and i'd be voting her rn but like pls don't rush this hehe" is egging on

[Datisi]

general response to the mess that is 1652:

first of all, your order of votes is wrong. i didn't join you in voting dwlee, you were the one that joined me.

then, your points about me trying to find alternatives for iv makes no fucking sense. i was the first vote on dwlee, my reasoning for voting them was literally "lol idk" and i had nothing to actually push them with, and iirc they weren't really that low collectively. do you think scum!me actually thinks that that wagon is gonna get me anywhere?

then, my vote for you in 1092. you say t3 wagon was dying down, but it's right up there, tied for first. freshly supported by the ic. i can jump on, and iv isn't even on, so i can tell him to jump on too. that is much more likely to go through, then a kyouko wagon, since who was scumreading you at that point in time? me and gamma? like, your "datisi was trying to make me an alternative to iv" and pointing to my 1092 as evidence to that, when there is a vc right before that post that shows that that is probably one of the dumbest votes i could be making if my goal was to save iv, it's frankly confbiased to shit.

you don't actually say what about my posts is partnery with iv, so i don't have anything to actually respond to here, but. iv and i have been scum once, we theatered a lot, and then i jumped off him to push a different misyeet. but you know how we played that when we were actually partners? i jumped off only when i was sure that i had something else to force through! you could argue i jumped off early and didn't think it was gonna end up back at him, but voting you/dwlee, wagons that have no chance of actually existing, is just not something i do. i either bury iv and reap in the towncred, or i actually force something else through. i've done that a lot of times, i can tell if a wagon has odds of happening or not.

the reason why i voted iv when i said "always a good choice" was because he and i were in a different game at the time, and he was posting there but not here. obviously i couldn't say that. his continued no posting was scummy, and once there was a wagon there again, i voted there to hopefully get him into the game.

i was absolutely rolefishing when i was pressing you on your gamma townread, and you know why? because at that point in the game, there have been 2 ic's and a vigilante. that's already 3 confirmed towns (minimum! maybe an extra yeet from the vig too!). something else that can also be confirmed town or get clears would be overkill, and i wasn't letting that slide. i didn't think it's possible you were an alignment cop, because not even gypyx is insane enough to put two ic's, a vig, and a fucking alignment cop / friendly neighbour in the game. but scum thinking they're being slick by faking some pr bullshit? that's a different story.

[Datisi]

jesus i am fucking annoyed now

first y'all shitpush gamma out and ignore me saying that he's unaligned with too many people

now i'm being voted for shitty vca and for being concerned about there being way too much town power

[Datisi]

"i am worried and want other people to weigh in" is not egging on the wagon.

that specific part is not egging on the wagon, sure. good job, 100% of your posts aren't egging on her wagon. "i am still spiritually voting there" absolutely is. and not like you don't have the option of saying "yeah ok we can yeet salsa now" after me/enchant say whatever we want to say and we decide to go through with it. or you just don't say that and let us do it, either works.

[Datisi]

one person is voting for you

and that one person is confirmed town and has a cas eon me so bad that it was enough to piss me off - if it were some rando than whatever, but the fact she's cofntown means people are automatically gonna be taking that read into consideration more than usual and i have to waste time and brainpower to defend against it

[Datisi]

re margot: the fact that you did confirm to having a role day 1 does make me hesitate, but it's not enough. mostly because last time i thought "holy shit this is too much town power" i ended up being right and kicking myself for it later. and 2 ic's + vig seem really difficult to balance with 2 additional town roles. granted, i have no clue what your role *is*, and partly i don't want to force that issue today because i know you'll have to claim tomorrow and either have a really REALLY good story ready or face the yeet, so.

you didn't answer my other question, though. you seemed very sure in salsa flipping red. do you still feel that way, and who's the partner and why?

[Datisi]

If it's Aristeia (I don't think it is), who would her partner be here?

scrolling through parts of the game for a few minutes, margot. i don't think it's omega, considering he was voting her a lot in the past few days (though he did seem to always end up unvoting her, will take a look at that soon), and i don't think it's salsa, considering how long ari's been trying to yeet her. margot also makes sense because ari's been hard defending her for that one post against iv, and i know ari is pretty solidly anti bus.

i will take a closer look at possible ari pairs (and shit, all pairs) tomorrow. it's almost midnight here, i need to get up early tomorrow morning, and i'm tired.

It's absolutely ridiculous that you think I'm trying to egg on her wagon

you mean the person you've been suspecting / soft pushing for a while? just because you weren't opportunistically jumping onto her wagon and screaming to kill her right now doesn't mean you weren't egging her on.

[Datisi]

I don't understand why you'd get pissed off from one person voting you but ok

you don't understand why i'd get pissed off because of the conftown voting me with a case that was horrible and made no sense but is more likely to get listened to because it's coming from the conftown? really?

like this 0->100 mph response to a single vote is really not a good look for you

yeah, getting utterly pissed off and antagonizing the conftown is a great strategy. or do you wanna claim that i don't get emotional as town?

[Datisi]

If she's town why would I even bother pushing Datsi yesterday when I can just sheep you on Salsa and make you the bad guy?

because you've been pushing datsi for the whole game? because there was a counterwagon on you and you thought this one was easier to make? i don't know.

[Datisi]

no, of course not. but when it's (1) suspicion full of factual errors and nonsense arguments (2) coming from the confirmed townie, i'm going to get annoyed.

call it an overreaction, sure. but you know how annoyed and survivalistic i get as town. if you're trying to claim that's scum indicative for me, i'm gonna get seriously worried >_>

[Datisi]

yes, but the "am i wrong though?" has been running in the background of my brain since i wasn't able to get a clear case on your potential partner.

[Datisi]

actually very little, considering how good your read on me usually is, if memory serves.

do you wanna point out why me getting pissy is actually the bad look you're making it out to be, or...?

[Datisi]

but after the shitshow that is the last three pages I think it's you.

why. you're both saying it's bad but neither of you are actually giving any justification. use your words.