Micro 1029: 8-Ball (but with Wolves) Game Over

[the worst]

it's like I'm magically reading you both the same way and it's not something I can totally qualify

[Bingle]

Am I the only one getting the impression that duck is actively trying to make my brain explode?

@Duck

[imaginality]

Taly, Bingle, Mom
Do you think there are two scum among {me, Alisae, Wisdom}? If yes who? If no which pair are the most likely to be TvTing?

I think there is 1 scum in that group,

Wisdom/Imaginality

S-S is far-fetched, really doubt it's

Alisae

.

I feel weird about how

Wisdom V Imaginality

heated up only accelerated

Alisae's

wagon, who was already voted by one of them. That trajectory doesn't read as sincere or logical because

Alisae

didn't actively fuel one side of the argument over the other. I get that that is what

Wisdom/Imaginality

scumread

Alisae

for, but I don't think it's unlikely that town would refrain from giving a solid stance, or not have one.

Wisdom, you were calling my earlier post manipulative. Ali's #262, now that's manipulative.
I buy the popcorning scum theory.

VOTE: Alisae

Ali warning you not to push her to decide between us too soon makes me think I'm the 8-ball and she's wanting to see if there's enough interest to get me eliminated over you while perfectly happy to see you go also.

How does this thought change with

Alisae

voting

Wisdom

?

I saw that as a reaction to her feeling pressured by the focus on her as scum.

Oh also, explain where I "pull Alisae's teeth for a vote when she's at L-1 or L-2" because that's a blatant misrep.

Oh sorry... you didn't pull

Alisae's

, you agreed with

Wisdom's

theory that

Alisae

was scum for not wanting to be pushed into voting you...

What were your expectations of both slots, assuming you considered town motivation for both of them?

By expectations do you mean how I expect they'd play as town?

I expected Alisae, if town, not to blow up at Wisdom for the 'popcorning scum' theory especially considering his vote was already on her. I don't see what prompts that sudden shift in levels of aggression in a town player in that position.

For Wisdom it's trickier because I can see his point coming from scum wanting to find a reason to swing people's focus away from him. But also motivation to do the same as town. So there's motivation for him to make the 'popcorning scum' post from both sides.

I felt around that time that he was trying to make sense of me more genuinely than before. E.g. 225 read worse to me than 253. Though I think this player list is smart enough that you can't push a bad case on someone so to me it's hard to read much into the arguments people make (me included). That's why Alisae's reaction to the popcorning scum comment struck me, it gave me a scum read on her based not just on words but emotion too.

[imaginality]

Quote fail again...
"I saw that as a reaction to her feeling pressured by the focus on her as scum." <- that was my response to the first question

[imaginality]

i've missed wisdom but like, he's scary as scum and i don't see the imaginality stuff at all

VOTE: imaginality

hiraki and bingle fascinate me

What led you to change your read on me?

it's like I'm magically reading you both the same way and it's not something I can totally qualify

Do you mean you see them as the same alignment (if so, what?)
Or that you're using the same method to read them both?

[imaginality]

Starting to second guess things and wonder if scum are outside me-Ali-Wis, and this is a TvTvT nightmare.

I do that though, over think and second guess myself. Ultimately of all the posts today I still feel the #262 popcorn reaction from Ali is the post where I went "woah that feels scummy".

If Ali isn't scum I think it's 2 of {Wisdom, Mom, Bingle}.

Hiraki and Taly both seem town to me. the worst I have less of a read but gut says town.

[Wisdom]

I just don't understand why scum-

Alisae

would vote

Wisdom

here.

The only town-motivated reason I can think for

Wisdom

to try and get

Imaginality V Alisae

going was to see if they were partners or if

Alisae

would take a bite out of

Imaginality

for survivalism.

Walk me where you think Ali/Imaginality S/S is possible.

Theyre two of my three scumreads
But even disregarding that I dont see where you take issue
If Ali is town

I'm asking him to go for my other scumread and convince me to vote there

If Ali is scum

Im making him vote one of my other scumreads

There's only 2 scum in this game. One of your scumreads must be incorrect.

Your assessments strike as odd to me because your trying to point

Alisae

towards going after and eliminating someone you ALREADY THINK is scum.

Not to figure out if there's a fallacy in your reads.

The threat that you want to eliminate

Alisae

:

Ali you wanna live?
Read my points about Imaginality and vote there

Followed by expecting them to vote there for their survival is largely a behavior I would associate to be scum. So your interaction with

Alisae

felt like a

"gotcha"

moment when they didn't vote

Imaginality

for you.

You just don't understand how I play

[Wisdom]

I'm going to bed, but I think I've thought as far as my bird brain will take me and I think I've given

Wisdom/Imaginality

enough to address to help me sort.

Honestly I don't feel like addressing anything because you just don't like my playstyle and find it scummy

[Wisdom]

Hiraki and Taly both seem town to me. the worst I have less of a read but gut says town.

Agreed with this but I'll include Bingle

Mom is still doing nothing and could easily be red
Between you and Ali I still prefer Ali

[Wisdom]

Your assessments strike as odd to me because your trying to point Alisae towards going after and eliminating someone you ALREADY THINK is scum. Not to figure out if there's a fallacy in your reads.

There, let's try again because I don't wanna be rude. I'll try to spell out my thoughts as much as possible.

I scumread Ali and Imaginality (individually)
Theres a big wagon on Ali
Theres a chance I'm wrong on Ali and I am missing out on liming Imaginality
Ali is online
I try to get Ali to convince me he is town and Imaginality would be a better vote
Ali interacting with me in real time might other than the above also make me more/less confident in whether hes scum

So yes Taly, asking him to do that was both to read him better, to have him help me read Imaginality if he is town, and in general to improve my reads, remove the fallacies and get the best lim possible

[imaginality]

Current hero solve

Taly/imagines

You say this, yet you're still voting for the worst? With 10 hours to deadline?

If you think I'm scum vote for me so you can be held to account when I flip town. Don't fingerpoint from the sidelines.

Or better still, vote your buddy Alisae to get some towncred for bussing.

[imaginality]

I mean, if

Imaginality

wanted to push the notion that

Wisdom

TMI'ed me as town, then comments like:

It's obvious I think Taly isn't obvtown (I do lean town in Taly but I don't see anyone as obvtown yet).

are lukewarm in sorting me, and not congruent with the strength of suspicion towards

Wisdom

. Is this true,

Imaginality

?

Sorry, missed this earlier. My point was, I saw you as

probably

town but Wisdom's thinking back then sounded like he

knew

you're town and hadn't bothered to think through the scenario where you flip scum. And I didn't think you were obvtown enough for a townie to not think through the possibility you're scum. Whereas his post wouldn't have seemed suspicious to me if you were clearly obvtown.

At the time of #229 which was before the recent drama llama fun, not much had happened to shift my view of you from that "probtown but not obvtown" notch. Although my comment in that post referred to my read on you at the time of #107 I'd have said if my read had shifted since (in either direction).

As for Wisdom, I'd now say based on the Alisae / Wisdom play, I think it's more likely I'm wrong in my Wisdom scumread than my Alisae one. Hence my vote being on Alisae.

[Alisae]

VOTE: alisae

[Alisae]

ig i will be irrelevant this game.

[Alisae]

really would have liked it if people just let me hang out on the side lines and watch but I have a feeling I'm the 8ball, and if it was, it was never going to happen.

[Taly]

Fuck. Why does scum-

Imaginality

even throw out

Imaginality/Wisdom/Ali

as a T/T/T possibility this close to deadline. He's opened himself for scrutiny and is at threat of elimination the most outside of

Alisae

.

My guess is, he doesn't. So that's a towny reply.


Don't think Wiadoms "you just find my playtime scummy" but he does justify himself still so that's a point in his favor

[Taly]

VOTE: alisae

ALI NO

[Taly]

VOTE: Momrangal

[Taly]

HOLY SHIT THATS L1NOT HAMMER

THANK FYCK

ALMOST HAD A HEART ATTACK

[Alisae]

if people decided to actually do things instead of just sit around and do nothing for several days this conclusion could have been avoided, but the only real development that happened was imgainality v wisdom and by the time that happened it was too late.
Real shame because I'm pretty sure wis is either town who thinks he is right on scum (and the guy is scum cuz imaginality was scummy) or imaginality just trying to pressure me into voting his scumread.

[Alisae]

VOTE: alisae

ALI NO

deadline is in 5 hours

[Taly]

I've eliminated people with no votes on them quicker.

[Alisae]

ur not getting a flashwagon in 5 hours on this website I'm sorry but that's not possible you need all 5 players to vote and I'm going to bed.
No one cares about what you have to say Taly.

[Alisae]

Like ur the towniest player in the game and no one gives a fuck

[Taly]

I've done some stunning elo plays with worse thread dynamics.