Micro 1029: 8-Ball (but with Wolves) Game Over

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ime town

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UNVOTE:

i have time for this laterrrrr

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alsooo hi worstie!!! Hi house! and hi BIngle!

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omg i love bats, second fave animal to toucans

pockieted

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Question to any: Is there any plausible reason that Wisdom may be the 8-Ball

Asking this for multiple reasons

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u are my favourite duck worsti

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What u think about me Taly

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Lmao this

the worst V Bingle

is so comical, it was not a 1v1 I would have foreseen to start off D2. I'll leave my commentary at that for tonight.

(Hint: I'm implying a read here.)

this is prolly town btw

btw btw this isn't my actual catchup im just on a break

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hard townread granted

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suppose i meant more about my slot as a whole

but i like what i see (^ω^ )

I skimmed random bits of the past few pages idly but i havent actually read-read yet

my predictiiiion is that Hiraki and Ali (Was it those two? At least Ali) got into a toxic TvT fight or something, and ali being town means e was a mislim

and like idk if Bingle defends Wisdom because "He's probably 8-ball" when that's unreasonable given D1 (I know at least Ali was obvious D1 lim) -- then maybe that makes worstie town and easy game bingle/wisdom. i dunno yet but just off the bat id guess that

Also i was kind of guessing town!House/ali anyway

thats why i was asking if its reasonable for one to think Wisdom may be the 8 ball

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@page 22 - I've seen both Mom and Ali get limmed D1

Not saying they're easy but it's practical. I wish I had experience with Wisdom to get the whole context here! This playerlist is scary as fuck now that u point it out

Question to any: Is there any plausible reason that Wisdom may be the 8-Ball

Asking this for multiple reasons

Yes. Ali/Wis/Imagine we’re the EOD pushes. Taly brought that up already D2.

I see, true. Although one of the players voting him was Ali, the player with 4 votes who you'd assume is the most likely

Also, why was Ali not killed D1 exactly?

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I’ve never eaten bat. They seem like a poor culinary choice, tbh.

:( i dont taste good

highest probability 8-balls fmpov are probably imaginality (doubly so if imaginality is scum), maybe momrangal. i'm weakly paranoid that i'm a decent 8-ball target here, but i'm not sure if that's compelling. it is possible to eliminate me, but i'm really cute, so it's kind of annoying.

Highest probability 8 balls are people under no suspicion D1 and person no one is pushing D2. Also I own the Golden Gate Bridge and would like to sell it to you.

Okay, I see now. This is a bit less cut and dry. Wisdom did have second most votes, so it is plausible for Bingle to think he's 8-Ball at the very least on a surface lvl

No elims are bad
Scum now have the info to change the 8ball into someone likely getting limd whereas it was a blind guess in pregame
Let's just flip Ali

Please tell me you're not still voting my slot on d2 after making this post on d1...
*goes to check*

VOTE: Wisdom

Lol

For the record, if I were scum, I always place the 8-ball on the obvious target. In my mind, that's like a 50/50. Town either goes for the obvious lim and thinks "No way scum picks the obvious target", or they go somewhere random. Closer to 1/2 odds rather than 1/7 or however many other targets there are, no? I guess context is important but i would never place the 8-ball on someone who like requires future seeing

Now, to be fair to Wisdom, if you think someone is scum, them being the 8-ball doesn't really matter. Although unsure if I'm sold on Ali/House

this is stupid I'm going to read from the start

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page 5 probably less likely mom with wisdom

Also i think my only commentary up til then is that taly comes off as towny there too

pedit: ty House much appreciated

undecided on the imaginality push on Wisdom -- i dont believe in scumslips although i can believe that imaginality finds Wisdom's confidence in Taly!town too high

ali is being prickly and difficult rather than towny -- ali has been towny as scum for me in the past TBH

Taly probably just has to not say anything about Ali and ali gets limmed D1 it looks like sooo

I'm not seeing what Wisdom is seeing about imaginality's push on him being scummy (page 10, he said it twice now). Maybe it's a little hyper-focused and tunnely, but I'm not sure what the obvious scum motivation is for that, reads a bit more like town that starts to conf bias no? "Manipulative" is strong

i've missed wisdom but like, he's scary as scum and i don't see the imaginality stuff at all

Exactly

Is it impossible imagine is scum, no, but does their push on Wisdom ring as actively more scummy, not really

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265 is the plot twist of the century LMAO WHAT. There's no way imaginality as scum predetermined that move, the positioning on Wisdom was so steadfast, and now they're helping Wisdom's reads. Nuts. Towny, I think. I think it's a misread of Ali though

amazingly I think Wisdom just turned the tables on Ali and imagine at the same time bottom of page 11 and came out on top. I think the swap from imagine was towny but wrong, Wisdom thinks it's wrong, insinuates it's scummy, and keeps the pressure on both Ali/imagine in the process. completely optimal positioning if he's scum! And I agree with him that imagine's wrong about Ali -- I just got a different conclusion

That was pretty cool though. Seems sort of convenient for scum!Wisdom but at the same time very convincing since I don't exactly disagree with what he's saying (besides the conclusions)

Imaginality's tone still feels manipulative to me

Read your ISO the past 2 pages, doll.

! are u referring to the same thing I just pointed out by chance? No, I don't think so actually.

I am definitely missing what is "Manipulative" about 262 according to imagine. I agree with Wisdom that it isn't. It reads to me like Ali is frustrated about being pushed and sort of blaming the pushers -- but im not sure how it's manipulative

Kind of townleaning imagine

VOTE: ali

I don’t really trust this sudden shift to Wis, makes me worried he’s an 8 ball, tbh.

WAIT WHAT

BINGLE SAID THIS ON DAY ONE?

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Hang on hang on hang on

The first 8-ball is chosen during pre-game

What scumteam chooses Wisdom, aka the player who everyone in this game seems to unanimously agree is hardest to mislim, in the pregame?

Also, it's literally just Taly spearheading Wisdom and I think Taly is town anyway.

Who is the "sudden shift to Wisdom" referring to exactly?

@Bingle

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House baby you're right forget what I said earlier

I thought Bingle was worried about Wisdom being an 8-ball DAY TWO

Which, I would understand. And I still understand that idea after reading up to this point.

Day one, though? Stopped me in my tracks when i hit that post

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So... Yeah. I think it's entirely reasonable that there was scum somewhere in {Taly/Alisae/duck/imaginality} and that was why the sudden interest in Wisdom at "the butt-ass last minute".

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Taly your posts are too long ill read the really long ones going forward but its unlikely to happen from me tonight actually im about caught up nvm

If you are town voting yourself makes zero sense
Especially if you happen to be the 8ball
You just take away the info of the 5th person on your wagon from us

But you're probably just scum so

Scum self-hammers

Demoralized town self-votes.

You're better than this.

I kind of feel bad if Wisdom is scum cause Ali's play (page 18) is just too hard for scum to go against lol. I don't think scum!Wisdom can concede Ali town

I don't really know House's gameplay outside of when he got eaten alive by hyperposting in my game as scum

Current hero solve

Taly/imagines

You're not the hero we deserve.

You're the hero we don't need.

Mom's hero solve is so far away from my solve that it probably makes her town, but maybe one of my backups if I'm wrong so far

VOTE: ali

I don’t really trust this sudden shift to Wis, makes me worried he’s an 8 ball, tbh.

This. Is. Not. A. Real. Thought.

No scum team picks Wisdom as 8-ball on d1, unless they know he rolled jester or someshit.

(Obviously I think this is huge now, i originally thought Bingle said that post D2)

Granted yeah House/Ali is defending his own slot, but I still think it's good he saw that. I don't know if I had the big reaction to Bingle's post because House saw it first and i remembered addressing it, or if that post genuinely was so pinging. Either way i see the same thing as house

VOTE: Wisdom + bingle

and you can take that to the bank

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VOTE: Bingle

I scumread that vote + reasoning even if Wisdom isn't scum

Was my catchup tainted by my interactions before reading thru or is it just reinforcement, I wonder?

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Well now I don't know because as I read I was already sort of thinking "Ali/Taly town, watch out for Wisdom"

And as I read, sure enough, I thought the same things.

To summarize I think Taly/imagine/Ali-House/Mom were all towny to extents

I probably would have thought Hiraki was a bit scummy cause i disagree with a lot of their reads but yeah

And Bingle now I kind of need to hear more from wait you probably already did that then let me look

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Hm. Perhaps I’m the only person in the thread not irrationally terrified by Wisdom.

He's an nk target, not mislim bait.

Well, as of the last time we played together, anyway. It's been years.

My point is that there really isn’t mislim bait in this list, so I could easily see scum picking someone who would normally be hard to eliminate as the day 1 8-ball. And the way EOD happened, it looked like could well have been wisdom.

Okay well as I said I thought Mom/Ali at the very least made more sense

But even then -- who is the sudden force switching to Wisdom you're referring to?

Imagine who was pushing there all day? Ali who was the main wagon who was obviously gonna vote there? And then like... Taly. Taly is the only person who makes sense for you to be talking about, Taly actively wanted to get not!Ali elimmed

If you DONT think Imagine is scum, then it's by complete luck that scum gets Wisdom as the 8-ball, no? That's why your idea makes no sense to me. And if you do think Imagine is scum, then lol I guess but also that's not a sudden swap, that's all-day tunnel on the 8-ball which is going to be exceptionally obvious if the elim even goes through which like... why would scum!imagine even expect that to go through? And how could scum!imagine predict Wisdom does something they can scumread?

I'm so confused and basically House saying "There's no way that's a real thought process" comes to mind. It just seems like you wanted to vote Ali.

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Now, to be completely fair -- I'm not sure if there was scum motivation to vote Ali or not. It seemed like the day was about to end. So maybe someone who is more familiar with D1 times could tell me if it seemed like Ali could die after that Bingle vote, or if it was total vanity by Bingle.

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Oh I also think Wisdom's reaction to Ali's self vote and stuff is a misread possibly by scum who wants Ali dead

Kind of same with Wisdom's read on imagine, i don't agree at all

Does that make wisdom scum by default, i guess not though

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Why're we voting Wisdom > Bingle out of curiosity

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Cause I agree i think the Bignle vote is scummy even out of a Bingle/Wis scumteam context

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I agree 100% it's a completely nonsense move as town and actually hurts us even more than a town self hammer would usually

I do see a theoretical scenario Ali was faking the hammer part, it was in the back of my mind as i read that

Although Ali's initial reaction to like, just one person voting her ("Leave me alone so i can do what i can do") just seemed frustrated and not particularly theatric to me

i've kinda seen it both ways from Ali so I suppose you immediately assuming Ali was doing it for scum reasons seemed sort of hard to believe from me

Also while i was searching thru the iso i saw this

Btw y’all know Bingle is scum cuz guy has t even made an attempt to read me and guy knows my scumgame and knows this ain’t it
But apparently I’m scum KEKW

Bingle didn't really try to read Ali and i think the reasoning for his vote was indirect intentionally (about wisdom push being too quick) cause apparently he is good at reading Ali.

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265 is the plot twist of the century LMAO WHAT. There's no way imaginality as scum predetermined that move, the positioning on Wisdom was so steadfast, and now they're helping Wisdom's reads. Nuts. Towny, I think. I think it's a misread of Ali though

Disagree
Scum "de-tunnel" way more easily because they are moved by opportunism
Town with a steadfast scumread is not very likely to reconsider to the point they sheep their scumread

I find it more likely scum doesn't think to abandon what they've been doing all day to sheep you, both because of how that can seem suspicious and also.. why?

As town I'd more expect a chaotic view of the gamestate that changes easily and has little regard for how it appears to those on the outside

However, if there was a reason for imagine to switch from pushing you to attacking Ali, then I could entertain it. I didn't really see that at the time though, it just seems like something that doesn't come from scum -- seemed like there was no good reason for scum to do it. scum!imagine gets a miselim either way, no?

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Now, to be completely fair -- I'm not sure if there was scum motivation to vote Ali or not. It seemed like the day was about to end. So maybe someone who is more familiar with D1 times could tell me if it seemed like Ali could die after that Bingle vote, or if it was total vanity by Bingle.

It was just hours left, I could definitely see it as town wanting to get a lim like I was asking

But the "wisdom 8ball" that accompanies it I dont like

If that's what it was, no reason to add the extra reasoning to it though.

Like i could definitely be sympathetic to that interpretation but it kind of just seems like a fake post to me. Combined with how Bingle (apparently, i could be corrected) can read Ali well. It didn't seem like a town settling on a less than optimal target to me

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Oh I also think Wisdom's reaction to Ali's self vote and stuff is a misread possibly by scum who wants Ali dead

Kind of same with Wisdom's read on imagine, i don't agree at all

Does that make wisdom scum by default, i guess not though

I'm just extra paranoid of manipulation
In both cases you see the surface (Ali being frustrated town, Imaginality being tunneling town) but I see possible scum plays
Especially in Ali's case because I know him to do such stuff as scum

Possible isn't the same as likely, though. Imagine's play on you seems less likely made by scum to me. Can it be scum, yes, although I don't see where the extra likelihood comes from.

Ali's self hammer/vote, yes, that can be manipulative. Ali asking for space is a bit more dubious... I'm not sure I see that play from scum!Ali being more likely. I think it's NAI or maybe towny since i think it comes off poorly and Ali I've seen try a little harder to seem towny as scum. I see Ali act this way as town all the time as well. Where does the possibility become a likelihood for you?

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I can agree Ali does weird AtE stuff before but i didn't notice a particular trend to alignment with it

I do find that scum!Ali tries harder to seem towny whereas town!Ali seems to just get pissed when things dont go eir way, more or less. May or may not be a good tell but whatever

Imagine spending all their time scumreading you and then seeing something Ali says, agreeing with you and voting there, just seems like a move that has no reason for scum to do. I didn't notice how it was opportunistic. Can it be scum, yeah, but more likely, i don't think so cause i dont see the scum motivation to it

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ye lets kill bingle woooooooooooooooooooooooooooo wisdom

And maybe, I can understand that reasoning, although as a move it just seems like something scum would be too self-conscious to do and generally still doesnt make a lot of sense to me compared to chaotic town not considering how they appear and going with what they feel

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I thought I had 4 votes on me still.
That's actually not as scary.

okay ya in that case I apologize for that.
I thought I was dying

apparently ali thought it wasn't as bad if it was a self-hammer? I'm not really sure why though. Apparently an apology was in order for a non self-hammer

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he does

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But imagineality was voting Wisdom all day and if their plan was to get 8-Ball wisdom killed why tf did they tunnel the 8-ball all day just to switch to the main wagon. what was even the plan if Wisdom did actually die? how did Imagineality know they'd be able to get a Wisdom push going? That's like literally the most obviously strange D1 in all of existence -- Wisdom gets hypertunneled and is somehow the 8-ball

Alisae, well, obviously Ali was going to vote not emself and nothing about their vote was out of nowhere or related to the 8-ball

The only person that makes sense for your argument is Taly, who was trying to get anyone-but-Ali killed, essentially.

it just seems like a wildly strange read on your part that doesn't seem like a genuine thought. idk. Why would Wisdom be the 8-ball and how could scum have predicted the stars align like that, it just doesnt make sense as a read to me

Also i see that wording wasn't you now oops lol

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Also i think Taly is town anyway

And also I think Taly's vote wasn't exclusive to Wisdom could be wrong, i think Wisdom was their best pick though. I do see my wording of "anyone but ali" isn't really right, although getting not ali off was important

Also I see imagine didn't even vote Wisdom?? So nvm basically you're just referring to Taly and Ali, no?

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And also I think Taly's vote wasn't exclusive to Wisdom could be wrong, i think Wisdom was their best pick though. I do see my wording of "anyone but ali" isn't really right, although getting not ali off was important

** getting not ali elimed

I don't know wtf that wording was

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i cannot for the life of me find the worstie posts

imagineality yeah although that's not a surprise from them at all is it? And also my previously stated reasoning for them targeting wisdom!8-ball being completely bonkers

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Of course, in all fairness, it's not so much whether or not it makes sense to me as whether or not it makes sense to you.

Which if you were under the impression people were piling on... maybe I guess. It still just seems very hard for me to swallow i suppose

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I'll do some rereading of the Bingle case today as I've just skimmed last couple of pages. One question I have for others who know him is, is he someone who'd hold back from hammering Alisae yesterday or Wisdom today? In both cases I think they were X-1 for a while and they can't both be his buddies.

I think if Ali was the 8-ball yesterday then hammering that (earlier in the day, not when it was a deadline crunch) would have looked really bad. Better to not associate with the wagon, not really give a read on Ali (Which is the impression I was getting from how Ali described Bingle? Correct if wrong though)

Don't know with regards to Wisdom -- yes he might be Bingle's buddy, also just not sure throwing down a hammer in a nightless setup and trading one-for-one is a good idea rather than trying to turn others' reads around.

Unless, of course, I am incorrect in my assumption that hammering (town) Wisdom today or Ali early yesterday would be perceived as scummy

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Are you playing differently from usual, Wisdom?

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at least someone agrees that was unbelievable af!!

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ah i forgot mom was in this game, the worst ending is mom is scum with like anyone completely random and a lot of our work is rendered pointless

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damnn the Wisdom wagon holds all three of my townreads

Also to confirm: was there a moment where Bingle could have hammered Ali yesterday that wouldn't have seen sus AF (In other words, not early on in the day where it impedes discussion). It seems to me like Bingle didn't really have much of a read towards Ali being scum anyway, but still someone mentioned him having to show that restraint

I do not believe Bingle could have killed Wisdom today and had that look natural from what i remember

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Maybe I'm not thinking critically about this, but I don't particularly feel the current points against

Bingle

? Other than the lazy D1 take on

Alisae

and otherwise left-field jump into

the worst

, that's as far as I'm thinking on his slot being potential scum.

I think

Wisdom

is a better push because I feel like his jump to

Alisae

D1 was opportunistic. His EoD1 replies felt as though they came from scum trying to sow doubt in arguments that were valid against them 356 and 357 and 398. I don't follow the

Bingle

vote [

MT

being the convincing vote on that wagon] and I don't think the 1v1 with

House

has accomplished anything for either slot IMO.

And it's unusual for replacements to have similar takes on certain aspects of the game as

Alisae

did (namely townreading me, thinking

House

is a likely 8ball,

Wisdom

being scum), so I don't feel like this wagon is without solid reason.

I agree I think Wisdom is a good push, although moreso because I think his responses to imagineality/Alisae were easily scum-motivated and also are different from my own assessments (I think both are town). I think Wisdom is more or less hand-waving you with those defenses too, though, yeah.

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It more or less feels like Wisdom needs his scumreads to go down in order to win, I'm not sure I buy his arguments to me that I'm thinking too surface level about Ali/imagine's D1 behaviour. Possibilities are different from likelihoods, and generally Occams Razor works. Is it possible Ali was doing a fake hammer play to score points, sure. The frustration post I think is decidedly NAI or slight town (I'm used to Ali!scum being townier than that, you see).

And with regards to imagine I just find it a pretty impressive read progression if faked because on a surface level it seems way too obvious for scum to do.

I'm a little less convinced Bingle/Wisdom exactly is the team. Maybe Wisdom + Mom/worstie more likely. I am starting to think you may be right that it was just a bad take by Bingle, perhaps.

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VOTE: Wisdom

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I'm not sure there was a real reason for Bingle to force a vote on Ali (Save for town voting at deadline to get an elim, perhaps). I still haven't thought of an answer to that

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LOL to clarify what I mean: it makes the reads seem strained rather than natural -- it feels like he can't change his reads on imagine/Ali, he has consistently kept both on the table and I'm not sure there's been anything that clues me in that he's genuinely trying to read them

Page 11 being a good example of him keeping both imagine/Ali as options open

I'm not sure there was a real reason for Bingle to force a vote on Ali (Save for town voting at deadline to get an elim, perhaps). I still haven't thought of an answer to that

There is zero incentive for town to force an elimination, was no elimination = no nk.

I don't buy that as an excuse at all.

Scum gets to switch the 8-ball, actually.

Additionally, if Bingle thought that it would be better than a no-elim, it doesn't exactly matter. I think he's conceivable that he would. It's possible he was just very awkward about it and I'm getting tripped up

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Like Wisdom has been steadfast in his evaluation of Ali/imagine and whenever evidence to the contrary pops up he says that he "reads the game on a deeper level" than i do but doesn't actually explain why he thinks his interpretation is more likely.

Add on of course that I don't think it's true scum!Ali is more likely to make that play. And I have been liking what I've seen of House. And it's the same for imagine.

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Bingle was definitely concerned about the 8-ball considering his vote reason, so it is plausible he would prefer an elim to a no-elim. I don't really mind the 8-ball getting swapped either can you can more or less ignore it if you think you're limming scum, but it does shake my confidence in voting Bingle -- I'm just not sure what the scum motivation to vote Ali is that close to deadline, especially when he has no previous scumread/lean on them.

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didnt see that one coming

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I suppose scum thought Wisdom was second biggest wagon and figured we wouldn't kill Ali due to that being too obvious -- we've been out WIFOMed

I'm guessing Mom(SS) and Bingle are most likely

Although im not so sure of any townreads yet going to review later

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No the kill was really obvious i mean i didnt see the Wisdom 8-ball coming

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Your slot has exactly 1 good thing going for it and that is that its hero solve was so out of left field it's hard to imagine scum saying it with a straight face

pedit: I forgot you were in the game at least twice, that's my guess (although i'm probably not the best person to answer that)

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Anyone happen to know why Wisdom was so sure worst is town? (or why anyone believes that would help)

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I don't think wisdom being the leading wagon is something that's like, particularly easy for scum to foresee.

Question to any: Is there any plausible reason that Wisdom may be the 8-Ball

Asking this for multiple reasons

Yes. Ali/Wis/Imagine we’re the EOD pushes. Taly brought that up already D2.

Which of these players is aware Wisdom is the 8-ball, I wonder

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Anyone happen to know why Wisdom was so sure worst is town? (or why anyone believes that would help)

Why did you vote him while wanting to know this and not knowing it?

What makes you think I wanted to know that then?

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What makes you think I wanted to know that then?

Well it wouldn't make any sense to want to know it

now

but not then, when it actually mattered.

It's a thought I had just now thinking about Bingle v. worstie

Previously I thought Wisdom was scum so I wasn't as interested as to why he townread worst (i figured worst was town)

Now though I know Bingle has been consistently pushing worst and no one else has been interested in that this game

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It was kinda bad

Bingle goes out of his way to be scummy at EoDs

The only thing is there is no reason to do it. I don't see why he votes Ali end of day 1 as scum or why he would feel the need to make sure 8-ball wisdom dies in such a rushed manner. Wisdom was gonna die anyway. It looks so bad rushing the elim on the 8-ball. Lol

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So in a way it wraps back around to seeming uninformed because if i were informed Wisdom were the 8-ball I damn sure wouldn't ask Wisdom a question then just go fuck it and kill him

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I don't follow the Bingle vote

The points against Bingle are not super good but poe right now suggests Bingle + Mom
It still won't surprise me a bit if House or Imaginality flip red but I can see the town points for both and accept them as town
Morning Tweet, you and duck are locktown for me
I wish Mom actually played so I had a better read there but yeah

I reviewed, Wisdom calls duck varying degrees of "town" to "locktown" but as far as i can tell never elaborates. Okay

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It seems like Taly had worstie as nullish or undecided yes

Either way I'm not sure there was a nightkill that makes sense other than Taly. He was locktown to basically everyone

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wulf

So Bingle you were suspecting Taly for his waving-off of your worst questions/points if i understand you?

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Previously I thought Wisdom was scum so I wasn't as interested as to why he townread worst (i figured worst was town)

Wouldn't that have helped you read him though?

probably?

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Is your point that it's suspicious I didn't engage with Wisdom enough or are you just nitpicking at me for not being meticulous enough in my approach

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To be fair I'm not the one who killed Wisdom and wisdom is also apparently notorious for not explaining reads

Whether or not I took any of that into consideration i could not tell you

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I mean I find it confusing and irritating that you are asking why Wisdom townread tw after helping to ensure that Wisdom isn't alive to explain it, and I wanted to understand why.

It's almost like I didn't have that question while Wisdom was alive

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Make your point SS

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If your question is why I didn't ask Wisdom why he townread worst, the answer is I didn't think of it

There isn't a more complicated answer because I literally don't remember thinking about that at all up til now

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Confusing and irritating as in I was intentionally ignoring Wisdom in order to elim him easier or whatever reason, or simply confusing and irritating with no further conclusion

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reaction to being epically pranked was kinda towny though smh

Mine or Taly's? I'm not gonna lie, Taly not realizing that was a joke post kinda threw me for a loop and I'm not sure what to think about it.

I now think Mom and Wisdom are town. what reality are we win smh.

VOTE: Wisdom + bingle

What happened here?

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(There are no posts about Wisdom anywhere in between or after those posts)

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Ok let's recap

well we now know that I didn't think to ask Wisdom to elaborate on his worst read yesterday, but today I'm interested in it

Is it because I was too busy thinking Wisdom was scum yesterday and more or less didn't think about worst, but now I'm thinking about worst today... or..

is it because I didn't actually care to sort Wisdom or worst and today I'm trying to judge how easily I can miselim worst, or am asking useless questions, or whatever scum oriented motivation you can imagine

If I had to read myself, I think it's probably NAI since I legitimately didn't really engage with worst at all yesterday or mention him at all. As town I was just not thinking about duck and tunneled on Wisdom, but as scum I could have done the same thing not thinking about duck

Should I have been more methodical, probably, maybe things would have been different. Is it confusing, not really, I think it's fairly cut and dry

[Morning Tweet]

So do you think further scrutinizing of worstie today is warranted?

[Morning Tweet]

It's probably worth noting worst has had the opportunity to engage with Bingle a bunch and recently -- it just that it was about bread, trips to Australia, and the golden state bridge

wellll time to wait for now i guess

[Morning Tweet]

So you figure you've got the 8-ball worst?

[Morning Tweet]

I agree Bingle is the 8-ball

I was curious why you feel his push on you is transparently agenda-driven and if the 8-ball played into that

[Morning Tweet]

Hot take I think both scum are on this page

[Morning Tweet]

Am i going to substantiate that

Maybe

[Morning Tweet]

Okay I'm glad we started a new page

What's going through my head right now:

I thought Ali didn't really seem anything like eir scum game. I haven't had any issues with House really. That's one

pedit: Are you sure? Taly and imagineality were diehard protectors of House-Ali, so if scum were to place the 8-ball on wagon #2 after day 1 and hope people dont go for Ali due to 8-ball fears.. well..

If Taly and imagine are both town, I'm town, hm...

[Morning Tweet]

That also is kind of ignoring Mom as a possibility for scum

It seems kind of crazy to suggest that the Wisdom wagon could go through without scum control. But Taly/imagine were the pushers, so.. I don't know

[Morning Tweet]

If the Wisdom wagon started with a strong base there's no reason really to join the wagon

Were there any attempts to create a CW aside from the Bingle push that you/me/Wisdom did at that one point? Was there a wagon before Wisdom? Why am I asking you this rather than looking?

Okay out of the gate it was a push on Ali by worst, me, and Wisdom

Taly went Bingle instead

Only Ali advocated for Wisdom at start of day. House ends up coming back into the game and voting Wisdom again (480). That does admittedly hit kind of different now

Okay and then Taly does the thing voting for Wisdom. Now I'm kind of figuring scum expected Taly/imagine to go for Wisdom, otherwise what's the point of the 8-ball. Worst joins the wagon. Imagine joins the wagon.

I come in and start Bingle again. Wisdom joins me. Worst gets of Wisdom to join me.

I switch to Wisdom (*sad clown noises*), then Bingle does the second worst EoD vote of the game on Wisdom.

So all in all, it's:

Wisdom << Alisae, House, Taly, worstie, imagineality, Morning, Bingle

[Morning Tweet]

Wisdom was comparatively the overwhelming favourite yesterday. I don't think you put both scum on that wagon, there'd have been no need.

Additionally..... every player except Mom voted for Wisdom, anyway. You can't see worst's vote in 721 but worst had Wisdom as scum and helped the wagon along.

Also, of course, if Mom is scum, they didn't even play D2 anyway. If Mom is scum, they're gonna be scum with someone who was on wagon at some point (since that's everyone)

That final VC is deceptive at hiding exactly worstie and Mom

[Morning Tweet]

Let me try to explain why i think Ali's behaviour didn't seem like scum!Ali making an emotional attempt to get townread, and instead seemed like an actual "You're all terrible i hate this game"

The short of is, eir posts are... actually not towny. To me. They're just spiteful. They seem more interested in bringing others' down than propping themself up. That's not something that sways minds. I can get examples if necessary.

Someone mentioned Ali has never self hammered as scum -- I've seen Ali feel defeated at scum, but it was because they were angry at eir teammate (I saw this in two games, I believe in both "One Night Stand" and "Donnie Brasco"). On the flip side I've seen Ali self destruct and start attacking others for their play as town quite often

"But they didn't self hammer" - 392 seems to suggest Ali thought it was okay for em to self hammer but not to self vote. I suppose this is a judgement call but I think they did intend to hammer, not self vote for emotion points. Eir play is just not conducive to making an emotional plea at all. Getting angry gets townread, i get it, but as someone who reads into emotion constantly, it didnt come off as towny to me.

Best I got there I think. It'd be a new look for me for sure. Admittedly I've read Ali wrong before, but that was because they were deepwolfing and being very town though, not.. this

[Morning Tweet]

Hot take I think both scum are on this page

That’s a less hot take when you realize it’s only two townreads, but I can hunt his partner after we’ve burned the

witch

duck

small pebble.

Moderately simmering take*

[Morning Tweet]

But yes I presently think House/imagine are town, one of you/worst are town, you are 8-ball.

[Morning Tweet]

I need more from imagine though. His progression on Ali/Wisdom felt particularly genuine to me as I've noted but I feel I need a little more to be comfortable, since I think Wisdom is a fine enough 8-ball for them and they can be partnered with mostly whoever.

I do think their strategy of gunning for Wisdom out the gate, abandoning it (for no reason that I can see), 8-balling Wisdom, then returning is a little bonkers.

Maybe it's because Ali was the 8-ball D1 and imagine's on a mission to be opportunistic.

But Ali didn't need the help D1. It was just a pointless move..

[Morning Tweet]

Oh my god

Imagine has quite possibly gunned for all 3 8-balls if my interpretation is correct. Not only that, their pushes are almost exclusive to those 3 (Ali D1, Wisdom D2, Bingle D3)

Granted they tunneled Wisdom early D1 and have spent 100% of their posts sussing Bingle today but havent committed there yet

[Morning Tweet]

Rereading 265 by imagine I actually don't like it anymore now it seems sloppy

Shit idk.

It still doesn't seem like it was necessary

The follow-up seems somewhat believable. I was a bit surprised imagine didn't perceive himself as tunneling, but after rereading, i think i might have misinterpreted the speed of the game or something, it doesn't seem like imagine focused *that* hard on Wisdom. Wisdom finds that bad, thinking imagine was trying to get people to vote him without being sure, I'm less sure of that interpretation.

This is hard, I'm scrutinizing a very small selection which I'm never good at doing

[Morning Tweet]

Necessary from a scum viewpoint, imagine. Even if Ali is 8 ball, I dont think a forced switch is necessary, especially to the vote of your current suspicion

[Morning Tweet]

Sloppy more or less as the reasoning didnt seem very good to me, or Wisdom or Ali for that matter. But your follow up posts did explain it better.

[Morning Tweet]

We lose if town 8 ball flips house

[Morning Tweet]

Why's that? You think scum were picking to predict you specifically?

I mean, I'd be a logical 8-ball... but I thought the same yesterday. :?

If you're a logical 8-ball that means there's no way you could push the 8-ball..?

[Morning Tweet]

Oh, I get you.

You should still tell me what you're thinking with regards to scum

[Morning Tweet]

This seems deliberately obtuse. My reason was explained at the time in #265, and various points thereafter.
What do you mean by 'returning'? Wouldn't that be me voting House today (i.e. returning to the Alisae case)?
Because I haven't done that. I think scum sat back and laughed at a TvTvT on D1. I think House is town.
Actually of the remaining players aside from myself, I think House is the least likely to be scum.

No, I meant returning to suspecting Wisdom on the next day.

I too think House is town.

It's X-lo if we mis-lim the 8-ball today. And I think because of the hammer, it's pretty likely Bingle is 8-ball, regardless of alignment. So in case I'm wrong in my suspicion, I don't want to slap a vote on just yet.

As for the 8-balls, I kind of doubt your theory just because I think the Alisae wagon was too easy and tempting to push over D1 if she was 8-ball. I don't think scum would have resisted unless both on the wagon. At one point, aside from Wisdom, the wagon was: {the worst, Hiraki(you), me}. Later it was {Hiraki(you), me, Bingle}. So if both scum were on the wagon at both those points, that means you and I are the scumteam and we both know that's not true.

So I don't think Alisae was the D1 8-ball.

Also, if your theory is correct, it's worth noting your slot also gunned for two of those 8-balls (Alisae D1, Wisdom D2). And as for today it's not like I'm trying to sneak an 8-ball on town. I openly admit Bingle is probably 8-ball, I just also think he's probably scum.

And I'm not voting Bingle because I'm trying to follow through my thoughts of 'if scum!Bingle, who's the partner?' and 'if town!Bingle, who's the scumteam?' because if a player is in both of those they might be the better elimination today.

Ah, so you aren't planning on pushing Bingle today, nevermind, I interpreted your posts that way. I agree Bingle is a highly likely 8-ball.

I still feel like Ali and Mom/SS were the best 8-balls D1. I never said both scum had to be on-wagon EoD of course. But yeah, it is speculative. And you would think scum would push the wagon 100%, through in theory.

Yeah I misunderstood you on Bingle for sure. And you make a fair point that most players really did gun Ali + Wisdom. So without that Bingle component, I'm not pinged.

[Morning Tweet]

@the worst:

i'd contest that bingle is like, very clearly driving an agenda-driven lim. i had a busy week and spent my time finding scum, rather than answering questions which didn't interest me much. not sorry.

Can you explain why you think Bingle's push on you is agenda-driven?

I wouldn't hold your breath, duck hasn't explained his read on Bingle all game

I vehehemently disagree both scum had to be on Wisdom wagon. That ignores worstie, who was on the wagon but later switched, as well as Mom, who didn't play at all.

You might say "its too lucky for scum to get that wagon with 0-1 people on it EoD" -- I disagree, Taly and imagine were bound to push the wagon, House/Ali was also bound to push it. 2-3 of those are town, pretty sure. As long as House wasn't elimed, Wisdom was actually pretty likely. I feel stupid for not seeing that

[Morning Tweet]

Why the different approach to this game?

...Because scum get massively rewarded for guessing people's reads?

It's Xylo anyway, no?

[Morning Tweet]

Any townreads, House? I'm literally going to locktown you if you make a vaguely towny-sounding comment cause I'm already pretty convinced -- and I also wouldn't mind hearing your input

[Morning Tweet]

You could... what

[Morning Tweet]

House who got nightkilled due to the 8-ball activation

[Morning Tweet]

Who did you think got killed out of curiosity?

In any case you don't gotta direct so much as obvtown so town isn't distracted

That being said, I don't think most town are scumreading you

[Morning Tweet]

It's Xylo anyway, no?

Only if we execute the 8-ball today.

Do you value scum not being able to try and WIFOM you over helping us not lose Xylo?

[Morning Tweet]

Who did you think got killed out of curiosity?

In any case you don't gotta direct so much as obvtown so town isn't distracted

That being said, I don't think most town are scumreading you

I had no clue.
Didn't even look tbh.

Been checked out since Wisdom flipped green.

I'm done with trying to push my opinion this game. I've done enough damage.

It's one wrong elimination and you're a replacement just like I am, I don't think it's such a big deal.

I just want to ensure you're not feigning demotivation as a way to ride to an easy win here. I don't think that's the case but I'd feel better if you tried a little.

[Morning Tweet]

Do you value scum not being able to try and WIFOM you over helping us not lose Xylo?

Yes. Also it's probably not xylo.

What makes you think scum values gaming your reads so highly? I'd probably try to miselim you as scum, not try and persuade you.

I disagree. It's at least 40-50% Xylo in my mind. There are only so many targets and if we vote 8-ball twice (as town) we lose.

[Morning Tweet]

Does it feel like both SS and worstie don't get into their reads hardly at all in order to avoid the 8-ball (at least in SS's case but worstie does it too for one reason or another i suppose), and yet, show relatively little worry for the 8-ball? Is that a reasonable observation to make?

What is the point of hiding your reads to mess up scum's kill but continuing to assume the 8-ball is an unlikelihood? You're getting the best of both worlds there, if that makes sense. You don't have to share your reads and if the 8-ball happens, it happens.

Granted, from town!worst's PoV, maybe Bingle is a good candidate for scum. He's also a fabulous candidate for town 8-ball. I suppose I'm not super hot on Bingle being scum as of right now. It does more or less read as Bingle screaming at a brick wall while duck reclines on the beach with a little umbrella drink in hand, totally unphased

[Morning Tweet]

I think there was a really good chance I started today pushing Bingle (since that was my idea yesterday). If I had done that, I'm pretty sure non-Bingle scumteams win. That's a big part of why I think he's the 8-ball.

If Bingle is scum, he still might be 8-ball, of course. Maybe I should try **really really** hard to read Bingle since that's probably going to say a lot about the game, but I haven't really gotten a good grasp of him -- aside from how his EoD votes are both completely abhorrent and somewhat unbelievable for scum to make. But I agree with the counterarguments from SS/imagine saying that's not a valid defense.

[Morning Tweet]

Well, my assumption is that we are going to play in a way that makes us unlikely to hit the 8-ball, since we should be doing this anyway.

How is sitting back and letting everyone else decide the elims going to make the 8-ball unlikely to hit, from your town PoV?

[Morning Tweet]

Unless that's not what you're planning on doing, but you would need to like, share reads, in order to convince people to join/leave wagons

[Morning Tweet]

Well, if scum puts the 8-ball on scum, that's hedging their bets and placing game to a 1/4 Xylo next phase if that scum dies. But if a townie is limmed when they place on scum, they just missed an opportunity to win.

As scum, if there's a win, and there's no real downside to trying for it, I'd take it. Especially if it's like at probably close to coinflip odds right now. I think it'd be a mistake not to take that.

Now if it was exceedingly obvious who we were eliminating today and that person were scum, then sure I think it'd be on them. There is no such target, though. I think they go for the win.

In any case I'm playing as if they did to be safe

[Morning Tweet]

I'm hitting another roadblock

I do think there is a good reason to withhold your reads temporarily. For the whole phase, no though.

I'm starting to hone in on viewing the game exactly one way but there's plenty of time and for a lot of slots I just don't have a lot of info on.

pedit: Meh I don't think it's unreasonable to possibly push Bingle. I don't know why I thought you were set on that though.

[Morning Tweet]

I do think there is a good reason to withhold your reads temporarily. For the whole phase, no though.

What's the point though if you don't maintain it into the night? That's when it matters.

To see what everyone else pushes first. That way, you might be able to get a read on the 8-ball.

Though I didn't do a good job of waiting to share cause I'm an impatient bat.

Does it feel like both SS and worstie don't get into their reads hardly at all in order to avoid the 8-ball (at least in SS's case but worstie does it too for one reason or another i suppose), and yet, show relatively little worry for the 8-ball? Is that a reasonable observation to make?

That seems to be SS's motivation but for the worst is that true? At least I don't think they've explicitly stated that anywhere.

You're right, I'm not sure what worstie's is. He said he "doesn't engage with scum" -- but I'm not sure he ever explained why Bingle/Wisdom were scum nor really engaged with Bingle at any point.

I do think that worstie doesn't care about the 8-ball and would just rather target his highest scum (796). Now, sure, that may be valid but if worstie is scum that just so happens to be game-winning to target Bingle.

[Morning Tweet]

And not showing his work as to why it's Bingle + not really caring that Bingle has 8-ball is just a strange combo to me

[Morning Tweet]

Of course, although you run the risk of scum intentionally manipulating their reads to agree with your wrong 8-ball scumread or right townreads.

In any case, that's why I might put the brakes on reads. I think avoiding giving your thoughts just so scum can't game you as well isn't worth

[Morning Tweet]

disagree with your right townreads*

I'm just gonna spoil it, it seems like worstie is scum who is vocally sympathetic to 8-ball Bingle's elim whereas the other scum is withholding those thoughts and will simply hammer when clueless town vote Bingle alongside worst's help.

I hear it already: "But Bingle could be doing the same thing!" or "Or Bingle is just scum!"

Yes yes well if Bingle is scum that would make me incorrect yeah. Kind of what I want to evaluate. I think this is a fabulous gameplan, I know at least myself would have been an obvious townie to use for a Bingle lim, would just need one more and that could prolly be anyone. Boom, win for non!Bingle team.

I don't think Bingle is doing the same thing though, I don't think scum!Bingle 8-balls worst, to be honest. No one listened to him yesterday, whereas there was a ton of traction on Bingle yesterday. I don't know if that team really expects to win that 1v1, I think Bingle is the favourite to elim. But, maybe, it is still a win if he does.

[Morning Tweet]

i remember ending the day thinking and mom and taly were kinda towny
i think i liked imaginality?
probably going to start by looking for 2 in MT, House, Bingle.

VOTE: House as a starting point.

honestly still just think bingle is scum and i'd rather a scum flip and staying in stressful ELo than elim someone kinda meh
i'll do some more reading when i'm not at work

Worstie's confidence in his townreads come across as backed by so little substance, it's surprising that he'd be willing to gamble on Bingle, no?

It doesn't help that there is definitely 2 town in MT/House/Bingle MAYBE 3

[Morning Tweet]

why am i hearing dark souls music

i'm sensing.... a duck 1v1 coming up (maybe)... not again!!

[Morning Tweet]

Damn I'm going to have to find someone else to 1v1, then

[Morning Tweet]

I didnt see that reconsideraction on Bingle coming

[Morning Tweet]

Worstie I was operating from you saying me/Bingle/house were scumminess but you just inverted your reads list so now I dont know what to think

[Morning Tweet]

Well I mean, I think it's SS + imagine/worst. That much I know I think

[Morning Tweet]

Well I mean, I think it's SS + imagine/worst. That much I know I think

Why on earth do I decide this is the most effective way to play as scum

Why on earth do you decide this is the most effective way to play as town?

I think having relatively little concern for the 8-ball, as well as not having to share reads, is really conducive to a scum wincon especially when you can use the guise of not wanting scum to game your reads

[Morning Tweet]

if i ever become predictable, please hold a hand out in the direction i'm about to walk so as to non-violently and politely donk me on the head.

pedit: that's understandable and my brain is an organism of sheer chaos. did you like our 1v1 theme anyway?

I love it and my excitement for the 1v1 we're not partaking in has increased tenfold

[Morning Tweet]

Well this is gonna be more annoying than I previously anticipated!!!!!

I agree with you that Bingle is seriously town, worst.

House, your reasoning for scumreading worstie might make more sense on a D1 when there's less to work with, but in this current context I don't think a guilty conscience read is something I'd put much weight in. What do you think about worst's posting last page -- particularly about Bingle and the 1v1 and all that

[Morning Tweet]

It's true, I suppose from when you joked about me being scum, and also had a Bingle/me/house scumbloc, and also the whole bingle push, I figured you were going to double down and we were gonna fite

Now it's more complicated than that

[Morning Tweet]

Okay, but who are you going to sheep

[Morning Tweet]

Rest well!

[Morning Tweet]

I want to throw out SS both because I think he is scum and also not the 8-ball

IN SPITE of Mom not pushing Wisdom (obviously)

If SS is both town and also 8-ball i would probably explode because who tf would give him the 8-ball other than meeeee

[Morning Tweet]

I wish Wisdom were here to explain to me why worst is locktown

[Morning Tweet]

(or even better yet, proclaim worst is locktown and say nothing else, but just have a mysterious air about it, that kind you can't help but believe)

[Morning Tweet]

What are you getting at exactly?

[Morning Tweet]

I seriously doubt it's worstie/Bingle since they're forcing themselves to bus each other today or have to do random gymnastics to retract their reads of each other. In worst's case it's the latter and in Bingle's I don't think he is letting up.

[Morning Tweet]

I have already commented that I anticipate some folks will see Bingle/me as s/s and given you're largely PoE'd I'm not surprised that's the position you've taken.

Hmm maybe it was just yesterday I realised I didn't really think Bingle was scum anymore. Felt like longer, long week.

Why did you vote Bingle then lol

[Morning Tweet]

'Throw out' = eliminate? or = present as a possibility?

Eliminate

Although throw out as a possibility works fine too.

I think SS works as a partner for you, worstie, and really anyone but I'm guessing one of you two

I don't think he's the 8-ball since only I have brought up eliminating him as far as I have seen (fingers crossed), so worst case we get another chance

[Morning Tweet]

Am I wrong about Bingle? I know others have been calling him town, and that does make me start to question myself. But my reasons are grounded more in wagon analysis than gut. I think of anyone on the Wisdom wagon he still stands out as the least genuine. So from that starting point: if I'm wrong about the worst and Bingle being the team, the other possibilities I see are Bingle and Something_Smart, or the worst and Something_Smart.

The latter pairing, though, that would imply scum have let town drive basically everything that's happened this game. And managed to stay off the 8-ball wagon completely (aside from the worst being on it then off it again).
Five town on the Wisdom wagon seems like too much luck for scum to have?

Not true! Scum got to decide who the 8-ball is, after all. They knew you, Alisae, and Taly would be pushing it.

Also! Worst did help the Wisdom wagon. He just switched before day ended.

[Morning Tweet]

If we eliminate inside worst/Bingle we have to be very sure because it seems to me we'll be running the risk of hitting the town 8-ball.

House/Ali is town (see my earlier posts on that) -- and if you're unconvinced uhhhhhh ill probably investigate more

and I'm town

That leavesssssss SS

[Morning Tweet]

You're missing somebody...

well it was more or less a post directed at imagine assuming imagine is town

In my present view personally im actually a bit unsure as to whether imagine is town or not, probably leaning towards town but if so that'd make worstie scum

[Morning Tweet]

(im buttering everyone up to voting u )

starting with imagine

[Morning Tweet]

I've got high hopes!

[Morning Tweet]

I think SS isn't town and isn't 8-ball

I think Bingle is town and is 8-ball

Imagineality or worstie are town, worstie has a bit of chances being the 8-ball but i dont think imagine is, I think worst wouldve 8-balled Bingle. imagine would 8-ball worst probably

House is town and not 8-ball

I'm town and not 8-ball

[Morning Tweet]

Side note, if 2 scum are in morning/ss/house and 8-balled worst, they win

VOTE: SS

[Morning Tweet]

@House

don't auto vote worst because SS will hammer it and win if worst is town!8ball

Let's talk things thru

[Morning Tweet]

I don't think scum 8-balls SS and does nothing else with him -- they probably expect me/worst/imagine?/whoever to go for Bingle. SS would be a total guess.

No one pushed SS but me. If you trust me those are good odds he isn't 8-ball

Worst and Bingle are way more dubious

[Morning Tweet]

Rising rapidly.

Can I take this to mean you believe my push of you is suspicious and 8-ball motivated?

[Morning Tweet]

If not, I find it really hard to believe that's a real thought from you

[Morning Tweet]

I do want to note focusing on potentially arbitrary numbers rather than reads is a convenient way to absolve yourself of responsibility for picking an elim (if that makes sense)

Why is worst a better pick than SS according to your calculations, imagine?

[Morning Tweet]

Okay im leaving. DONT. LOSE

For hte love of god House don't vote yet

[Morning Tweet]

Can I take this to mean you believe my push of you is suspicious and 8-ball motivated?

Imaginality's is, but same idea.

imaginalitys push on... not you?

[Morning Tweet]

I didnt see "Day 3" in the title and thought we just lost to something absurd like house/ss or something

yes I see now the title doesnt reflect phase

[Morning Tweet]

Oh I see what ur saying I guess, imagine was considering u

SS when are u gonna indicate who u suspect I'm in complete suspense

[Morning Tweet]

he voted worst tho

[Morning Tweet]

@MT do you think the 'a few days' vs 36 hours inconsistency from the worst is scummy or genuine misremembering?

didnt he say like "a week"? I kind of thought it was a joke cause it so ridiculous

[Morning Tweet]

he voted worst tho

Not when I posted that...

Oh lol

So anyway I should take it that you think one or two of imagine/me is pushing for 8!ball you, yeah?

[Morning Tweet]

Can I hammer S_S?

I want to see if Skittles really are candy-filled.

I would have asked to hammer the worst, but I'm allergic to duck blood.

im at the point where i dont think imagine/worst are a team

and i think you/Bingle are town

So probably

But I'd wait for Bingle's efforting and maybe SS to give a grand reads reveal

[Morning Tweet]

does imagine 8-ball wisdom after targeting Wisdom D1

i mean imagine didn't end on wisdom d1 nor started with wisdom d2 so probably i guess

[Morning Tweet]

I think I had a dream we eliminated SS, unfortunately i do not recall what the flip was

does imagine 8-ball wisdom after targeting Wisdom D1

i mean imagine didn't end on wisdom d1 nor started with wisdom d2 so probably i guess

I went after Wisdom from the start of D2 (albeit RL kept me from getting my teeth into D2 for 24 hours).
Aside from one post asking a clarification question of Taly, my next post #524 was voting Wisdom. (Worth noting that Alisae had been replaced by that point.)

From my point of view I was suspicious of Wisdom consistently, got sidetracked by Alisae's reaction, then since she got replaced I kept up my pressure on Wisdom while watching to see what Alisae's replacement was like.

Oh, I see -- I got you mixed up with someone else and you had a bit of a late start.

Out of curiosity, would you 8-ball Wisdom as scum?

[Morning Tweet]

fwiw scum!me still needs to acknowledge that he's in trouble and either

- divert attention off the 1v1 and :pray:

NGL, this seems like exactly what ducks has done. I don't really think my play today and yesterday is different at a me level. I am pushing ducks. I was pushing ducks. Largely over the same things, although I have brought up additional issues today as they've cropped up. The main difference in my play yesterday and today is MT giving me the time of day, but I don't see why that would lead to duckytown dropping his deathtunnel on me.

OTOH, ducky being set up to 1v1 me and then suddenly not having the support to see my elimination through and staring at his own instead going "Well akshually Bingle is bleeding town today" seems like a great move to not get limmed as scum. Maybe I'm confbiasing, but the reevaluation and back off definitely reads more like an "Oh shit" than a legitimate reconsideration of a read.

So to all those interested parties: why do you think duck is town here?

I suppose I am curious about duckie's sudden reversal that he misremembered slightly or a lot. His main saving grace is that I *do* think you're more or less bleeding town

I was expecting worst to all-in on you or me or both and then we were gonna 1v1 and it was gonna be cool but then he did the polar opposite of that and locktowned you and I, so.

You're right that worstie's reconsideration in of itself shouldn't be a townread but it was enough to deflect me back into having to think about things more. I suppose if he elaborated more on why you and I are town that'd be neat but I'm not sure if he'll have anything more to say

[Morning Tweet]

That does remind me, I'm pretty sure scum was getting ready to use at least me/House to lim Bingle and win today. Soyeah, it's a fair enough strategy to see "Oh no that's not going to work weewooweewoo plan B bus/mislim imagine"

[Morning Tweet]

@MT:

D1 I would likely just defer to my scumbuddy since I haven't played with most players on this list before. So if it were my choice alone my pick would essentially have been random but I don't think choosing purely randomly is the smartest play for scum. As scum I like wifom fun so I would have encouraged my partner to try to out-guess the town.

For D2 if I were scum and feeling defensive I would have gone with me as the 8-ball since I was coming under pressure in D1. Unless I was buddies with Alisae in which case I'd want to 8-ball her for similar reasons.

If I was feeling bolder however, I would have put the 8-ball on someone like Momrangal D2. She could easily have come under pressure D2. Choosing Wisdom D2 and continuing my push on Wisdom, I think would have seemed too risky/blatant for me to take that approach as scum.

Interesting, i wasn't under the impression you were in danger D2. What made you feel that way? (I promise I'm asking for a reason)

I somewhat agree and don't think you'd choose Wisdom. It's possible, since you could hide under the guise of "Scum obviously knew I would do that and gamed me", but still.

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Oh that's a good point I would have probably already won as scum, all I have to do is finish what I started yesterday lul

Maybe that's why duck doesn't push me

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Seriously Bingle you make it too easy, hammering Wisdom and almost hammering Ali in the scummiest ways physically possible

Is worstie/imagine a technically possible team that's playing a bit of damage control right now? Both indicated suspicion on Bingle start of day, with worstie voting. Guess I could be wrong on SS

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You know the way worstie/imagine are playing rn is like the only way I could think of that saves the game for that team, TBH. Maybe.

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UNVOTE:

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Well if you/me are a team I probably still kill 8!ball you

Unless we did a great prediction that momentum would swing away from you and now can just kill whoever

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can the town in worst/ss/imagine please stand up

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can the town in worst/ss/imagine please stand up

GTH I think it's smart atm, because the narrative duck and imagine are setting up of a duck/Bingle team looks a lot like trying to get me eliminated after duck flips.

I'm much stronger on the duck read than the imagine one and I'm not wholly convinced House isn't scumcoasting after seeing a distinct lack of blowback for tunneling, although I agree that that's probably just a paranoia read.

I don't think it's likely people were going to entertain worst/Bingle team

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Making Taly the nk was dumb.

If I was scum, I'd have kept Taly alive as 8-ball, started the day pushing Bingle, then randomly noted that Taly was the reason the lim swung off the d2 target onto the 8-ball.

Taly was obvtown read by quite possibly everyone other player in the game

But your slip that Taly was not only not nightkilled but also the scummiest player in the game somehow I find very believable

Hats off if you're faking this though lmfao

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i do kind of think Ducks' plan #1 was to win game today with Bingle push. I was really lost night but I did still suspect Bingle, and considering I started the vote on bingle yesterday, and considering Bingle commited such a scummy hammer, well..

Imagine also started the day asking others if they found Bingle's EoD sus. Of course he didn't vote Bingle like worst did, but still it was an easy wagon if I decided on Bingle.

It sucks because worstie's 180 out of nowhere is a good reeval if he's town but also doesn't come off as especially believable or hard to fake

Regardless the order was "ah dang bungle is town" and then "oh OK mt is town"

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now i'm kind of wondering if we were all secretly a little suss of taly and the scumteam just didn't clock that LOL

i definitely would have killed Taly so oopds

Open question: Who is least likely 8-ball in worsty/imagine/SS, who is least likely town etc etc even though im sure lots of people have decided already

I mean my 180 is literally real brain thoughts. but I can see why you're concerned, I'm a scary ducky.

counterpoint tho if I was planning to win today with a bingle push would I like.. not have pushed Bingle....

What would you have done, in theory?

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wot?

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I'm pretty sure Taly had the most townreads end of yesterday and was the most obvious NK due to being the least miselimable in theory

you not picking up on that and also thinking that Taly would have been a good mislim target and also not having realized he died suggests u haven't been thinking about nightkills

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but yeah i missed that Bingle didn't have an outspoken read on Taly and apparently worst was paranoiaing him to some extent

So I think i misjudged the thread's confidence a bit which would suggest i'm a good player to have nightkilled Taly >w< that's sort of what i was trying to say

To be honest though im not sure there's a better target than Taly anyway. Bingle is a no go. You're either a swing vote or a potential mislim (from other's eyes, i kinda thought ur slot is very town). SS can always be a mislim.

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Hang on i've got a post for this

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Spoiler: compilation of the last five times ive been accused of scumslipping (I'm town in all five)

Ok better question

How is this not a scumslip?

Siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigh yes but it will take a while to hunt them down

I think an easier thing to prove is that I have never been accused of scumslipping as scum. The reason for this is because my posts are very deliberate as scum and im rlly stressed about it, whereas im extremely off the cuff and stream of consciousness as town

My scum games:
Zoey's -- this is a rep-in game and the best example to compare with this game
Silent Star Royalty -- this is a little borked after D1 since i had to play scummy on purpose but still no scumslip accusations
Impeachment -- This game sucked but still townread and not accused of scumslipping
2132 -- First scum game coming back to the site, exceptionally nervous and deliberate.

It would be helpful if someone who has played with me a lot were in this game cause it's an easy thing to confirm that i get accused of scumslipping all the flippin time cause i dont know what's good for me

Well actually

I get positive feedback when i scumslip typically cause a lot of the ppl familiar with me know if im saying stuff that I would have deleted as scum, then its a pretty good town indicator

Also me being certain on a townread here is probably lightly town indicative maybe since scum!me needs to keep a lot of options open considering ive got a partner and 2 town need to die

I did not consider catboi flipping scum, in my mind it's like 30% odds i guess

that would make it a lot more believable that skitts/glory/xtoxm/fire have potential to be all town -- then it just takes one wrong townread of mine in the bottom group

see, it's rough that you say this because it looks so scummy, but scum doesn't say this kinda stuff, but they kinda do. idk

Lunar/MT both being town is something Hectic would definitely be taking advantage of too, so hmm

I think tomorrow's gonna be a good day

lmfao i realized later i was taking catboi as town for granted and immediately knew ppl were gonna have a field day with that at some point

Scum in general can say shit like that yeah, but for me as scum i actually go over my posts to ensure nothing can be taken as a scumslip or whatever -- and as town, well, you see what happens

Are you baiting me into scumslipping something like "I'm scum, just not with Para"?

pedit: I KNEW IT

So your saying that you were aware and have infact avoided slipping that your not partnered with para.

I love you tweetie and if you're scum you deserved the win and if you're town then I'm just sorry

How can we be aligned? The world is upside-down if we are. i really don't want it to be true

i love u too fyi

if you really love me after i die you will shoot lav and make datisi suffer <3

I would do it if I were scum. i hope they will too. i dont wanna lose Tanner !

scum slip. she says pooky is scum and now that its about to go thru she says she hopes "they" kill Law tonight. If scum!Pooky dies, there would be no tomorrow.
Bye scum.
HURT: Morning

Funnily enough, you have half-towntold in this game, but I'm not sure whether I should count those as proper "towntells".

Depends if i half town-tell as scum then I suppose

If you're town i guess that means i am evolving (>ω<)

is this a scumslip

Hmm this scumslip is pretty town-indicative actually

i legitimately searched "scumslip" in a bunch of my town games and I'm right at the top so much LMFAO

oh from top to bottom, FL v. Hectic, Normal Mafia, Chara's Folly, Forest Fire

So yeah I'm quite familiar with ppl attempting "Gotcha" scumslips on me and it's always been when im town. Interestingly, the accuser in all of those examples were also town though

Tea leaves is an alt of a player exceptionally familiar with me BTW

Subject: Open 791 | Forest Fire | Game Over

Reason being scum!Morning takes great care in what she writes. I think scum!her sees how that can be interpreted as a scumslip (I am evolving if you are town because I am scum this game and half town-slipped) while town!her writes whatever.

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Another fine scumslip for my collection

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And yes, I have never scumslipped as scum but I've done it in roughly 70% of my town games. It's a really good way to read me, but in the opposite way you think

Also, you're seriously more excited over a "scumslip" than anything else we've talked about?

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And yes, I have never scumslipped as scum but I've done it in roughly 70% of my town games. It's a really good way to read me, but in the opposite way you think

Also, you're seriously more excited over a "scumslip" than anything else we've talked about?

*been accused of scumslipping

Obviously I can't control what others say about me

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House if I were scum i already would have won this game by pushing bingle today he was literally my #1 scumread yesterday and worsty/imagine were suspecting bingle start of today

i don't snag #1 poster and play 5D chess for no reason. I would just win the game

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I make quite possibly the least sense as scum of anyone in this entire game and me not mentioning myself as a nightkill target is a really poor reason to ignore that

For the record..

I think... I'm a bad target if you want to get Bingle killed. If Bingle is scum, I'm maybe an okay target. I don't like to do this sort of NKA much, I think scum tends to just kill the hardest to elim players aka taly. I will grant you that I'm probably fairly hard to mislim but I think I'm probably easier to kill than Taly

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This is why I think scumslips don't exist I get this hammered into me every game

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Unless you don't make Bingle the 8-Ball since he'd be the obvious suspect.

Well you saw how avoiding the easy suspect ended up yesterday

Also even if Bingle isn't 8-ball I'd still kill him, no?

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I'm probably easier to kill than Taly

Demonstrably untrue.

Elaborate

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You should have done this before worstie 180'd and me and Wisdom, maybe it would have baited him into pushing me

Probably not though because scumslipping has been and always will be a completely unusable way of reading me and probably most people

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I'm probably easier to kill than Taly

Demonstrably untrue.

Elaborate

You've admitted misreading just how easy it would have been to mislim Taly.

Untrue, Bingle and worstie never voiced their suspicions of Taly. Taly was still consensus town, and from what I gather, worstie was more paranoiaing anyway

The only thing pointing to me being scum is that I totally would have killed Taly, sure, but a team trying to mislim Bingle also kills Taly like every time so

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Also do you really think Taly gets eliminated over anyone else today, anyway?

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Also do you really think Taly gets eliminated over anyone else today, anyway?

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Discredit..? I'm saying the idea that scumslips work as a read is wrong, not that your reads are unreliable.

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Despite never being a wagon or getting voted all game? Or even being a vocal scumread like hardly ever?

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Ima be honest I didn't really read into Hiraki much. I'll bother to defend if someone 180s on me

At least I think this is +town for you because there is no way I'm 8-ball and I buy that you've been demotivated up til now

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Taly chose the Wisdom wagon on D1 though, it's a very easy rebuttal to say that scum targetted Wisdom since Taly/imagine/Ali were already sussing Wisdom

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I am so fucking indecisive but I'm pretty sure you're town, House, so let's try this.

Who is my partner more likely to be, worstie or imagine?

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At this point I am convinced as I will ever be in SS/worstie/imagine having them all but for the life of me I cannot figure out what is the most logical non-8ball or most likely team

Right now I am leaning worst/imagine cause their current strategy makes a lot of sense and mayyybe SS is town

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I'm a liiiiittle annoyed and feeling impulsive, who is my partner

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Idrc what Hiraki did but yeah I mean i can weigh in if it's scummy or not if i really have to

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VOTE: imagine

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(only way this loses if 2 scum are in House/SS/Bingle)

Bingle got me this game and he would have gotten worst too so whatever

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Oh but imagine also has to be 8-ball, forgot about that. So actually I think this is safe

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it could be worst/SS >.> but they can't quickhammer since worstie is already voting

Ughhhh they wouldn't 8-ball imagine would they, I dont know

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I kind of don't want worstie guiding my vote and would prefer it be Bingle, but you're the boss

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Taly chose the Wisdom wagon on D1 though, it's a very easy rebuttal to say that scum targetted Wisdom since Taly/imagine/Ali were already sussing Wisdom

Hiraki pushed Wisdom, then flipped DURING HIS 1v1 and SHEEPED his scumread's push on my slot.

You can't defend that. You weren't even here, yet.

Hey wait, that's what imagine did. How's this fair?

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House are you thinking of imagine's 180 on Wisdom to sheep on you during their 1v1??