Open 828 | The Brethren Coalition | Game Over!

[Save The Dragons]

i also might be good with enchant? I don't know if scum pulls that play

Enchant getting mad over not being town read and trying to put scum in the five is not playing to town wincon.

doesn't make him scum but i don't have to put him in my list

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Also, just on the win today / win later argument, my understanding is that after D1 if our coalition fails (contains scum) the game basically becomes mountainous... Town just knows there was >0 scum in the coalition.

So it's not like we can just eliminate the coalition and win if 2 scum were inside. Scum can still night kill and may well kill outside the coalition in that case.

Maybe math disproves me on that but I'm phone posting from work and just wanted to get this out there.

@ssbm pav said it if you anit reading and you anit helping you are scum.

327 is what got me thinking on that train of thought, but I did not repeat what he said.

[cyrus62]

HEAL: Cyrus

And this is going agesnt what you just said I am the hardest to read most people say I should be vig or just voted off

[cyrus62]

I'm telling you lot I am scum gee how many times do I have to say it.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

HEAL: yessiree
That puts my 5 to:
Kyouko, Cyrus, Pavowski, Farren, yessiree

[cyrus62]

Better more fun game convice me I'm town .

[ssbm_Kyouko]

HEAL: Cyrus

And this is going agesnt what you just said I am the hardest to read most people say I should be vig or just voted off

I don't think you're hard to read

[cyrus62]

I think my Poe is at this point enchant ssbm and yessiree

[Save The Dragons]

briefly skimmed, I think for now I'm okay with this

HEAL: yessiree, STD, pavowski, cyrus, farren

can elaborate if needed

thinking about this post i don't know that i like it so much it doesn't seem like a lot of effort was made to sort people into the coalition

[cyrus62]

HEAL: Cyrus

And this is going agesnt what you just said I am the hardest to read most people say I should be vig or just voted off

I don't think you're hard to read

Said the one who thought I was town on the big board game war. Or convice people to vote me off in the market.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

briefly skimmed, I think for now I'm okay with this

HEAL: yessiree, STD, pavowski, cyrus, farren

can elaborate if needed

thinking about this post i don't know that i like it so much it doesn't seem like a lot of effort was made to sort people into the coalition

Since he has himself in there do you think that implies he is scum and his partner is outside of his 5, implying the other 4 are town? If so, who would you swap yessiree for? (I think your coalitions are similar)

[cyrus62]

Going be fun watching people use the I'm scum post to vote me later lol.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

HEAL: Cyrus

And this is going agesnt what you just said I am the hardest to read most people say I should be vig or just voted off

I don't think you're hard to read

Said the one who thought I was town on the big board game war. Or convice people to vote me off in the market.

I've had games to learn from now

[cyrus62]

I think nathann has at least tried to help. Even going as far as hurting him self when asked to do so.

[cyrus62]

I would remove yessiree and add nathann.

[Save The Dragons]

briefly skimmed, I think for now I'm okay with this

HEAL: yessiree, STD, pavowski, cyrus, farren

can elaborate if needed

thinking about this post i don't know that i like it so much it doesn't seem like a lot of effort was made to sort people into the coalition

Since he has himself in there do you think that implies he is scum and his partner is outside of his 5, implying the other 4 are town? If so, who would you swap yessiree for? (I think your coalitions are similar)

i don't know yet

[Save The Dragons]

i guess nathann since he's in mine and not in yessirree's but i don't have farren.

[Hakai]

Hakai do you scumread me?

No.

Because we not winning D1.

Town has won plenty of times day 1 in the past.

Nathann can you hurt me and add hanki to your 5.

HURT: All

I stopping caring from this moment.

You opened eyes to me, that i am wrong. TOWN CAN AND WILL WIN D1!

Yes! Especially with me and you out of Coalition, Town will quess 5 other townies! From 7 people, which contain 5 townies exactly! Yes. You quess them ideally. I believe in your godlike scumreading.


Either way. I ignoring Cyrus for whole game. Go kill me, it's better that explaining something to him.

VOTE: Enchant
This feels like scum who is slowly being boxed into a PoE and knows they will lose day 1.

HURT: STD

Why?

---

Also, where are the townreads on Farren coming from?

[Enchant]

Hakai if you scumread me, why i am still in your coalition?

[Nathann]

Nathann can you hurt me and add hanki to your 5.

Nope, he's very close to the bottom of my reads, if not at the very bottom. Convince me he's Town?

It's his play stateing I'm out of my scumrange is puzzling to me. But I think scum wouldn't give up a easy elemation like that.

Weren't you already more-or-less widely Townread by that point?

Okay, I went back to check. Hakai was the first to give you any sort of a Townlean (41). However, he was not the first to Townread you. By the point of him saying you're far out of your Scumrange (105), you practically had 5 Townreads on you already: Enchant, yessiree, Pavowski, Nathann, and Farren (52, 55, 59, 65, and 104 respectively).

I don't think Hakai Townreading you is Town!indicative for him due to "giving up an easy elimination", you were more or less the most Townread player at the time! If anything, it's seeing someone who's very likely to end up in the Coalition (or maybe even not, considering you were against putting yourself in it!) and deciding to take a hard stance there because it's definitely much easier than going against 5 people.

Now, I'm not saying Hakai is 100% Scum who did that, but I feel that your reasons for Townreading him are... not really reasonable.

[Nathann]

Also, just on the win today / win later argument, my understanding is that after D1 if our coalition fails (contains scum) the game basically becomes mountainous... Town just knows there was >0 scum in the coalition.

So it's not like we can just eliminate the coalition and win if 2 scum were inside. Scum can still night kill and may well kill outside the coalition in that case.

Maybe math disproves me on that but I'm phone posting from work and just wanted to get this out there.

This is town to me.and I agree. All we would know is one or two of the five is scum. Then we would fight over who we think is scum out of the five.

While I think Pavowski is Town for other reasons, I really don't think stating the obvious mechanical conclusion of the setup is particularly Town!indicative.

I think nathann has at least tried to help. Even going as far as hurting him self when asked to do so.

Gonna stop you right there, that "even going as far" would've happened regardless of my own alignment. Not telling you you're wrong, but use the right reasons to Townread me, lol.

Okay, I'm caught up, I see Kyouko also hasn't bothered to respond to me. Getting onto the things that I had to do now.

[Nathann]

Re my Farren read:

Rereading the ISO up until the 300's, I think this read was more of a "other people look worse" rather than "they look good". And I'm partly wondering if I'm getting pocketed due to him being the only person to Townread me while I was gone. However, I can point out some posts that I did like.

162 - while "putting people who are putting themselves out there" is a potentially lazy take, I feel like it's pro-Town. The idea itself that more discussion = easier sorting if the Coalition fails is Townie, but not that difficult to fake. However, I feel like using votes as such early is promoting a healthier gamestate, in a sense? Rather, I feel that Townies who are being put in Coalitions are more likely to effort (I certainly felt it was a bit easier for me to get back into the game when I saw at least someone wasn't grilling me) and increases the odds that the Townies will end up in the final Coalition? This made a bit more sense in my head.

207/237 - While I disagree with the read on Kyouko, I find this kind of read/reasoning to be Townie. I don't see the obvious Scum!motivation for defending a generally Scumread player, and the reasoning feels pure? Like something Town would come up with, while Scum probably wouldn't bother.

249 - I know, I know this is defending me, but I liked the attempt at assessing my motives. And again, assuming Farren/Kyouko isn't a thing (and I'm guessing it isn't), Scum!Farren would be defending universally Scumread Town slots for what gain?

Okay, so typing this all out, I feel like my Farren Townread is more of a gut / in the moment read than one based on analysis. I

guess

I could see Scum!Motivation in defending Town slots likely to be outside the Coalition if Farren is planning to be inside the Coalition and his partner outside and he's angling to Scumread his fellow Coalition members... But eh. Still above the null line for me.

Though this did make me wonder - @Farren, what's your current read on Hakai, and what did you like about him initially when you put him into the Coalition? (Assuming it was more than the fact he was active.)

[Pavowski]

I don't think it was already said. Putting it out there because it's factoring into my decisionmaking now. I think it would be useful for others to consider as well. Put players that might be harder to read outside the coalition to force scum into NKing them if they are town. makes scum reduce their own chances in ELO.

I usually don't speculate too much about what scum will do, but isn't this kinda what we're doing anyway? The less certain I am about a player, the less likely I am to have them in my top 5.

[Nathann]

And please elaborate more on the bad vibes. I think I understand where they're coming from, but I want to hear it from you.

The exact reasons will have to wait a bit, but. I just reread her ISO, and I think quite literally the only read she did explain was the utterly bad read on me? Actually, she did Townlean Pavowski for a joke.

It's just, I'm reading this ISO and my eyes are glazing over. Most of these posts are either mechanics / self-meta (which don't advance the game), unexplained read on people (save for the above 2), or just plain filler. I will admit that coming out and saying "I am obvious Town when Town" is pretty brave in this setup if she's scum, but if there are people here familiar with her meta (and not like it can't be checked anyway), maybe Scum!her thinks it's her best bet to take some refuge in audacity, I don't think it's clearing at all.

And by her vote on me and later posts ignoring me, I think it's safe to assume her read on me hasn't changed. But I find it really hard to believe that she is

that

certain on a tonal read on one post where I repeated the words "theoretical disagreement" twice (because god forbid I make it clear we're disagreeing on mafia theory and not something actually practically relevant to the game) that the entirety of the rest of my posts warrant ignoring. But even if she was that certain on that read, why isn't she doing anything to convince other people? Or at least voice her disagreement with those people? Everything about it rubs me the wrong way.

[Nathann]

I just noticed Kyouko has yessiree in her Coalition, so. @Kyouko, but also @anyone who Townreads yessiree: why?