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[ChaosOmega]

I never said I wasn't up for killing datsi today. I only have one vote and I wanted to dig into you a bit.

UNVOTE:

I'm not sure if massclaim today is the right play. The main role we expose is the vig, but claiming today prevents mafia from CC'ing, and we're on evens right now, one more shot before getting NK'd to put us to odds seems fine. With the 2 ICs, there's probably not a ton of town power hiding away. I'm fine either way, not sure what the optimal play here is.

[Aristeia]

I doubt we have any more power than the vig because 2 ICs + vig is already pretty strong and we obviously don't have a protective since the first IC died on d1.

Is there anything else you would like to ask me?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

UNVOTE:

[MargotRosa]

Swamped with work, and getting a bunch of archival material sorted, so I've been very absent last day and a half, so I apologise

Is there a way we can do mass claim on vig, rather than mass claim in general? Like, if there is Town power worth hiding, maybe claiming whether or not you are vig rather than any role beyond VT is the good middle ground?

[MargotRosa]

I thought Enchant was the vig given N_M was shot over T3 - seemed like a shot coming from someone that missed the context of the wagons, also if he was a vig or potentially an IC vig with (?) modifiers he's super confirmable and wouldn't give a fuck about hammering IV with his first post lmao. I could see Gypyx putting in a wild role like that and giving scum the 2 different finder abilities to trick them into thinking the IC and Vig are different players.

Or maybe Datisi given his reaction to the N_M kill *shrug*

If this is actually true, then maybe mass claim is not necessarily a good thing? I'm trying to roll things over in my head a bit and work out what logically makes sense for Town...

Ok:

Case 1) IC is also Vig, no other Power Roles -> Mass claim is good for Town. Scum kills Enchant either way, and we don't have to worry about someone claiming something silly at Melo

Case 2) IC is also Vig, other Town Power Roles -> Mass claim is good for Town for reasons above, and because we gain the benefits of the additional PR on the following day, unless the other Power Role is something game breaking, and keeping them off Scum's radar is better for Town. I doubt this is the case, unless there is a ridiculous Scum Power Role we don't know about. Either way, one would imagine we'd have revealed something about either of them at this point. So, on balance, I think still good for Town.

Case 3 and 4) IC and Vig are different -> Actually, this basically amounts to the same thing as case 2. Whoever isn't targetted by scum is solid, and useful final day

Ok, I feel alright about mass claim if everyone else does, unless I'm missing something crucial here.

[MargotRosa]

I guess it just comes down to the likelihood of having a Town PR that is more useful than an IC, and I don't think that's likely

[MargotRosa]

I guess the only other consideration is the fact that Scum don't currently know who vig is, and this is the only way to let them know. Like, for Town to win, if we don't kill Scum today, we still have to go through at least two Melos depending on how many Scum are on the Scum team to win, and if we reveal Vig now, we likely lose our last conf Town (unless there's another IC lol) on the second last day.

[MargotRosa]

I still think I'm in favour of mass claim, if everyone else is.

[MargotRosa]

I also think it might be for the best if we all cool it on the PR hunt stuff - I think at this stage enough has been said, and we are quickly straying into 'further discussion on the topic can only help scum' territory

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I changed my mind. I was inspecting Datsi and I think my read was misplaced. I was TRing him for a couple of specific posts that looked like crumbs but if I ignore those and look at him as a whole (thanks Koba) I feel like I'm looking at scum. There's not really any drive here. There are some deeply charged posts directed right at me, just like there were in OMB. There's also a lot of suspicion being cast around at just about anyone.

VOTE: T3
The stuff you’re saying about him makes sense though

i find it kind of odd that you're lowkey sheepng aristeia on t3 when she's pretty adamant in saying you're scum? do you have any opinion on that?

I feel like she raises valuable point against T3 and wanted to see how she responded to me voting there
ngl, not exactly a fan of what I saw

I noticed this post 630 and it didnt feel right. His explanation is that he was sheeping her because she had a good point and wanted to see how Aristea would react, and that he wasnt a fan of what he saw. Initially I was TRing Datsi for this post. When I do the work though, there is nothing Aristea says or does in reaction to Datsi's vote. She makes 2 posts, both in response to Datisi. Neither address his vote. There's been no reaction. This feels like the classic "It was just a RT and I got something out of it (I swear)" that scum is wont to say when challenged on a suspicious play. I think he's just making it up.

I also think he's been softing something that is not vig, which is why I'm asking for massclaim today. Specifically I want Datsi to claim, but I didnt want to rouse his suspicion.

There's another post of his that I'm inclined to believe is likely wine specifically for me:

What’s the case for Margot again
I pretty much have had my entire perception of her vanish into thin air

He knows that I know that this is exactly the kind of post scum!Gamma makes about his partner. There's a possibility Margot has a more useful PR than IV and that Gamma and Margot worked together to counter Margot's wagon, and that it ended up with a town-led IV wagon. It's also possible that Margot is a victim of circumstance here and scum!Gamma would have made this post about any towny with a wagon to WIFOM me. I intend to review Margot more deeply should Datsi flip scum.

For now, I want to lim here, and I want a claim
VOTE: Datsi

[MargotRosa]

I changed my mind. I was inspecting Datsi and I think my read was misplaced. I was TRing him for a couple of specific posts that looked like crumbs but if I ignore those and look at him as a whole (thanks Koba) I feel like I'm looking at scum. There's not really any drive here. There are some deeply charged posts directed right at me, just like there were in OMB. There's also a lot of suspicion being cast around at just about anyone.

VOTE: T3
The stuff you’re saying about him makes sense though

i find it kind of odd that you're lowkey sheepng aristeia on t3 when she's pretty adamant in saying you're scum? do you have any opinion on that?

I feel like she raises valuable point against T3 and wanted to see how she responded to me voting there
ngl, not exactly a fan of what I saw

I noticed this post 630 and it didnt feel right. His explanation is that he was sheeping her because she had a good point and wanted to see how Aristea would react, and that he wasnt a fan of what he saw. Initially I was TRing Datsi for this post. When I do the work though, there is nothing Aristea says or does in reaction to Datsi's vote. She makes 2 posts, both in response to Datisi. Neither address his vote. There's been no reaction. This feels like the classic "It was just a RT and I got something out of it (I swear)" that scum is wont to say when challenged on a suspicious play. I think he's just making it up.

I also think he's been softing something that is not vig, which is why I'm asking for massclaim today. Specifically I want Datsi to claim, but I didnt want to rouse his suspicion.

There's another post of his that I'm inclined to believe is likely wine specifically for me:

What’s the case for Margot again
I pretty much have had my entire perception of her vanish into thin air

He knows that I know that this is exactly the kind of post scum!Gamma makes about his partner. There's a possibility Margot has a more useful PR than IV and that Gamma and Margot worked together to counter Margot's wagon, and that it ended up with a town-led IV wagon. It's also possible that Margot is a victim of circumstance here and scum!Gamma would have made this post about any towny with a wagon to WIFOM me. I intend to review Margot more deeply should Datsi flip scum.

For now, I want to lim here, and I want a claim
VOTE: Datsi

I feel comfortable backing this

VOTE: Datsi

I also think it's worth saying that I feel pretty confident that Ari is Town. She's been Town reading me all game, which is not Town indicative in itself, but read in combo with the following quoted post, it kind of necessitates Scum!Ari deciding at game start that she is going to buddy up to me as a strategy.

I'm still not sure about T3. I'm not going to stand in the way of it, because I'm out of *hard* reads right now, but this just reads too much like WIFOM. Like, if T3 is scum, why in the world don't they vote each other as contingency?

If T3 is town, why does IV not vote him and let NM hammer rather than take the fall himself?

It's not the most outlandish idea in the world, especially given the fact that I've been pretty susceptible to that kind of thing in past games, but we haven't played together before, and so it only makes sense if she'd done a deep meta dive on me, a player who has been on the site for all of a couple of months to see if a specific strat would work on me. I just don't think it's likely, and so the only explanation that makes sense to me is that she is Town.

Either that, or I'm falling for the same buddy-buddy strat three games in a row. And I doubt it

[MargotRosa]

That's e-1 btw

[Aristeia]

Margot I assure you my heart is pure <3

[Aristeia]

Spoiler: For Datisi

[Gypyx]

votecount 3.2

Datsi (4) :

Salsabil Faria ; Aristeia ; ssbm_Kyouko ; MargotRosa

Exe-1

Salsabil Faria (1) :

Datisi

Aristeia (1) :

datsi

Not voting (4) : ssbm_Kyouko - Enchant

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to executed someone, day 2 ends in (expired on 2021-10-18 07:04:25)

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Anger is Power, unleash it !

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Just did some light rereading to understand 806 better as I'm fairly confident Datsi is scum and am wondering whether Margot is town or scum.

Updates from page 13 to bottom of page 17 (These take me a while, and I have a meeting to get to in half an hour, so can’t finish. Apologies)

Kyo:

382 makes me like her better. A lot of the justifications comning out of this aren’t necessarily justifications I buy, but the post comes across as Townier than other slots. The Mewtaph meta stuff is very interesting. Feel like the Datsi stuff might be correlating for the sake of correlating though.

Aristeia:

I like this slot a little less. 383 is a wild reason to FoS datsi. Don’t know what to make of it; I don’t like Datsi either, but reading NM and Datsi as scum because NM was read as null, with his posting 2 (3 at a stretch) genuine content posts before this one, seems very strange.

In the case of both of the above, I don't think it would change anything necessarily. They are both Null still, but these are just things that I'm keeping an eye on.

As I've explained previously, Dwlee is now in my sum reads. But, to bring it home;

InnocentVillager:

I haaaaaate everything from 395 to 416. Me aside, the fact that Salsa and Datisi are the only other scum reads, despite everything in the preceding pages, blows my mind. Mind is further blown by the Town reads on Dwlee, mewtaph and gamma, all of whom, at least up until this point, have been scummy as shit. It reads so much like scum jumping in with no idea of the game state and throwing reads around based on the first few pages.

May switch vote after reqarding the rest of the thread and working out where the votes are atm

I started around here. This is the readslist that is soon to be followed by Margot E-1ing IV. I figured the wagon on Margot would start around here but it actually doesnt come for a while.

i'm a bit busy for the next 4-5 hours so i'll properly read and respond to all the posts then (i've skimmed a bit), but i wanted to out a hot take in the meantime:

iv is likely scum. the fact that he hasn't returned from his catching up yet from yesterday (and that catchup was like 5 pages with non-explained reads? lol) is indicative that he doesn't want to be in this game. and as much as it pains me to say, if iv is red, aristeia is somewhat likely to be a partner. mainly because her reads seem to be kind of consensus-y/yeetbaity players, but there's absolutely no mention of iv anywhere, who i think would fit that description rn. her last game with me made me think she's anti bus, so i could see her be trying to divert attention from iv here.

553 is around where the IV wagon takes off. Datisi starts a push, followed by Roden, Aristea, T3, and Margot. I think from context that at the time of 553, Dwlee and Datisi were already voting IV.

VOTE: innocentvillager

you are so silly datisi

if you want me to vote iv you need but ask

VOTE: iv

i would do anything for you

VOTE: innocentvillager

VOTE: InnocentVillager

That's e-1. What's your role?

Margot puts IV to E-1. The request for a claim doesn't feel natural but from what I understand Margot is not neurotypical and I'm willing to chock the tone up to that.

i'm a bit busy for the next 4-5 hours so i'll properly read and respond to all the posts then (i've skimmed a bit), but i wanted to out a hot take in the meantime:

iv is likely scum. the fact that he hasn't returned from his catching up yet from yesterday (and that catchup was like 5 pages with non-explained reads? lol) is indicative that he doesn't want to be in this game. and as much as it pains me to say, if iv is red, aristeia is somewhat likely to be a partner. mainly because her reads seem to be kind of consensus-y/yeetbaity players, but there's absolutely no mention of iv anywhere, who i think would fit that description rn. her last game with me made me think she's anti bus, so i could see her be trying to divert attention from iv here.

okay this is the basis for my push?

Datisi idk wtf ur doing here I hope you don’t actually believe this

I have been playing this game for less than 24 hours phoneposting and I am like 20+ pages behind or whatever

Granted the late start was my fault but I don’t see how You could think I’m just scum here

My catch was done in the middle of the workday which I don’t really have a real break I’m taking time out to play this

If you MUST know what I was doing last night I am with my partner celebrating a holiday and I don’t really want to be playing mafiascum during that

Was I seriously about to die because I hadn’t posted for like 16 hours?? Hello what the fuck Datisi? And how did people agree with that?

I swear dogshit like this makes me want to go back into hiatus I don’t have like 2 hours every day to devote to this and I shouldn’t have to explain myself every time I go away for a very reasonable amount of time

Datisi you are scum here trying to push a fast one on me while I am still in catchup more or town doing idk what maybe trying to tilt me into this. like I’d like to think Town gou isn’t this bad how can you possibly show so much confidence in this read just based on that. I hope you have a great explanation for this or I am vote parking you the rest of the game

actually one of the most ridiculous flashwagons I have seen in my life

Margot is also scum here or needs to go back to Newbie queue for intentionally putting me at E1 this early on AND asking for a claim especially with NM in the game but maybe not even

I will put a little bit of time into this tonight but if I’m going to get killed because im not poring over this for hours a day like cmon that’s just ridiculous

But looking at this post, IV singles out 2 people: Datisi and Margot. He probably spends about 80% of his post focused on Datisi and 20 on Margot. While Datisi has the more substantive read and Margot's vote is clearly easy to push as scummy, IV chooses to focus Datisi. This is something that indicates to me that possibly Margot is scum, because of how IV treated her in comparison to Datisi, who seems to be town.

I was very clear about why I don't like IV. I wanted a claim out of them. Maybe e-1 wasn't the best idea in the world, but it actually got them talking, and (albeit briefly) actually got pressure mounting. Which only works if people maintain it, rather than backing off.

I've been very clear that I need data to read, because I have not been playing on this site for long enough, nor am I nearly neurotypical enough to effectively read tone in an online forum. I'm genuinely annoyed that everyone backed off there so easily, and honestly frustrated that suddenly everyone is town reading someone who has been well described as scummy, by me and others.

Honestly more concerned at everyone backing off as acting in a way I'd consider scummy right now.

these are Margot's reactions to the counter push on her. She doesnt name any names here, and I dont think she follows up with anyone that backed down (Dwlee, as Roden is IC and cant be pushed).

To be clear, I'm not frustrated that people are FoS'ing me. I'm frustrated that people seem so resistant to getting a player up against a wall d1

Also at this point I hadn't noticed any FoS except maybe from IV, and again, Margot does not name names.

Updates from page 13 to bottom of page 17 (These take me a while, and I have a meeting to get to in half an hour, so can’t finish. Apologies)

Kyo:

382 makes me like her better. A lot of the justifications comning out of this aren’t necessarily justifications I buy, but the post comes across as Townier than other slots. The Mewtaph meta stuff is very interesting. Feel like the Datsi stuff might be correlating for the sake of correlating though.

Aristeia:

I like this slot a little less. 383 is a wild reason to FoS datsi. Don’t know what to make of it; I don’t like Datsi either, but reading NM and Datsi as scum because NM was read as null, with his posting 2 (3 at a stretch) genuine content posts before this one, seems very strange.

In the case of both of the above, I don't think it would change anything necessarily. They are both Null still, but these are just things that I'm keeping an eye on.

As I've explained previously, Dwlee is now in my sum reads. But, to bring it home;

InnocentVillager:

I haaaaaate everything from 395 to 416. Me aside, the fact that Salsa and Datisi are the only other scum reads, despite everything in the preceding pages, blows my mind. Mind is further blown by the Town reads on Dwlee, mewtaph and gamma, all of whom, at least up until this point, have been scummy as shit. It reads so much like scum jumping in with no idea of the game state and throwing reads around based on the first few pages.

May switch vote after reqarding the rest of the thread and working out where the votes are atm

I feel pretty good about this post rn (minus calling me and dwlee scummy)

I grabbed this because it was the last time Gamma interacted with or mentioned Margot before the 806 post.

just some brief thoughts i had on my skim

townlean i guess

T3 - I remember meta'ing this guy back in DEFCON mafia but i feel like he's way different now this doesn't resemble either his town or scum game. Guy doesn't care he's posting every thought and just vibing. which is kind of what i do as scum sometimes too but i don't think it's something most ppl do. Being open about feeling disconnected from the game feels +town and i some of his content looks bad on the surface but he doesn't give a fuck and i think some of his takes were reasonable. The "mindmeld" with salsa post felt real and i think the excitement was genuine idk that was kinda townpingy i guess. flashvote on me was bad but he could just be trigger happy.

north of null

kyouko - anyone who proactively and early does a meta dive scumcase that clearly laid out with no bullshit can be a townlean, unless it's someone who i know can put in the effort as scum like datisi. maybe kyouko's a good scum player too so idk but fine keeping that slot around for now. i feel meh about trusting these kinds of tells because i think they tend to be mean-reverting more than ppl expect but i like the spirit

datsi - concise and nonpostury takes are very non-lamist. i think scum!gamma might be more lamisty and wordy which is the vibe i got from him in LN something

mew - idk i take back the faker comparison he seems to be very open about his thoughts and is very willing to explain everything he's thinking which is a plus - maybe he's scum good at faking this kind of stuff even under pressure tho idk seems redeemable at least

idk

datisi - i honestly have no idea on datisi nothing he's done makes me think town or scum. push on me was bad but i can see it from scum him too. sorry dayteezee i know u are good at getting ppl to townread you but not me yet. i feel like as i keep interacting with you ill get a better sense for your alignment

salsa - i get a T3/unabombah vibe from this slot very spammy and ico style catchup lol. granted una was scum in the game im thinking of but vibe here is very frazzled. idk i can't really put into words here yet but meh.

dwlee - i think some of their earlier posting was fine and reminiscent of our recent game but i wasn't exactly trying to read dwlee there so idk this reread dwlee didn't stand out like at all. idk

I feel like IV is treating Salsa's catchup and Gamma's catchup differently. I also kinda think town!Gamma is more verbose so I'm suspicious of the TR, considering Salsa does not get one.

VOTE: margot

VOTE: MargotRosa

Yeah I'm kind of not up for waiting 24-48 hrs just for 786 and 787 again.

2 quick votes appear for Margot near the top of a page. Gamma hasn't posted since near the end of 2 pages prior. He has either been reading the previous page without commenting, and decided that Margot votes were worth commenting on, or he checked the thread, read everything since his last post, and decided none of the last page was worth responding to, but that the Margot votes were.

What’s the case for Margot again
I pretty much have had my entire perception of her vanish into thin air

The problem I'm having with what he chose to respond to is that IV directed a question straight at him and he ignored it. He also didnt respond after he commented on Margot. Then, IV directs yet another post at Gamma and Gamma still does not respond. IV also makes no indication he is bothered by Gamma not responding to his first question, in fact he treats him rather cordially. Here are the 2 posts. I think the scumteam has agreed to bus IV and Gamma got concerned that Margot was getting pressure, so they had Margot make that wall post condemning IV since he was essentially a dead man walking already.

The posts:

Also, his read on me is like, honestly the biggest towntell I can pinpoint, my play here is literally the antithesis of the game he’s comparing to where I was scum, so regardless of your read on me IV should be obvious town

can you explain this? why is iv town for noticing a difference in your play between the two games?

It’s the way he noticed it, I feel like there’s ways he could have spun it to not TR me for it, so unless he’s literally trying to pocket me specifically I think he’s just town

honestly i don't really get it either

what specifically do you think scum!me does differently if i have to bullshit a read on you?

What’s the case for Margot again
I pretty much have had my entire perception of her vanish into thin air

basically the E1 and direct ask for claim at that point was rolefishy, opportunistic, unnecessary and therefore bad

i could totally see someone just outing their role and claiming there

also for how much she complained about pressure alleviating on me where the fuck is she to put more pressure on me?

not trying to be a hypocrite so this part comes with a grain of salt but it’s been 3 days since the flashwagon and she’s barely been here, does she really care about this

meh it’s mostly about the Claim I just want an answer to at this point. Less that I actually think she’s like lockscum

[ssbm_Kyouko]

UNVOTE: going to unvote as I dont want him sitting on E-1 before a chance to claim, but vote is on Datsi in spirit

[ssbm_Kyouko]

^Because Chaos is off wagon and is in the PoE. I dont think Datisi is scum but Chaos could be if I'm off-base.

[Aristeia]

I think the scumteam has agreed to bus IV and Gamma got concerned that Margot was getting pressure, so they had Margot make that wall post condemning IV since he was essentially a dead man walking already.

I strongly disagree with this take

When Margot posts her "case" on IV at 1192

The VC prior to her dropping that case on him, the VC is

6 votes for T3 (e-1) - NM had just voted for T3 putting him at E-1 (moving his vote from IV to T3)
3 votes for IV

At this point IV himself had not yet voted for T3

He could easily hammer T3 at this point with survival as the excuse.

IV was definitely NOT a dead man walking.

Her case at 1192 made it 6-4 and then Roden unvoted T3 to make the danger of T3 getting elimmed disappear and signaled he would switch his vote to IV in the future which he later does.

[MargotRosa]

With respect to why I almost certainly overreacted after my e-1 on IV, I was responding to the following posts, which are varying shades of 'that looks scummy'.

I was honestly more frustrated that people were backing off the wagon completely, and was probably avoiding blaming myself for it.

Sooo that flashwagon happened and I'm reading IV as pretty hard town after that.

fun fact, that is the third time someone called me Darius on this site
also stop it

VOTE: InnocentVillager

That's e-1. What's your role?

i usually hate using the word, but this actually feels a bit opportunistic, especially with n_m in game. were you suddenly fine with ending the day?

VOTE: innocentvillager

VOTE: InnocentVillager

That's e-1. What's your role?

Explain please....

i need to go eat, i'll read the rest later

first thought is that there's scum on iv's wagon regardless of his own alignment, but i'll see later

Sooo that flashwagon happened and I'm reading IV as pretty hard town after that.

Yeah same, I think it's TvT between

iv

and

Datisi

.
What do you think about

T3

and

MR

's vote on

iv

? I'm always paranoid about

T3

,

MR

's putting them E-1 not liking it, on the other hand

Aris

also vote

iv

which I don’t know if it’s buss or not.... My brain will explode anytime soon!

Sooo that flashwagon happened and I'm reading IV as pretty hard town after that.

Yeah same, I think it's TvT between

iv

and

Datisi

.
What do you think about

T3

and

MR

's vote on

iv

? I'm always paranoid about

T3

,

MR

's putting them E-1 not liking it, on the other hand

Aris

also vote

iv

which I don’t know if it’s buss or not.... My brain will explode anytime soon!

MR's vote is a lot worse than T3's.

[MargotRosa]

I also don;t quite understand whether you are scum reading either just me, or datsi and me. At various points in your post you seem to jump between the two.

On first brush, other than what I said above, I think that if you want to chalk the whole thing up to theatre, then surely IV spending less time defending against my push, but focussing on Datsi's should take suspicion off of me?

At various points in your post, which I had some trouble following, you seem to be going in multiple directions, and basically weave a story about a wagon on Town nearly succeeding but ultimately being derailed by a wagon pushed heavily by Scum on another Scum because of the theatricality which plays out one way, but then plays out in a different way, in which Scum focussing their attention on a player A is scummy for A, but also Scum giving very little time to player A is also scummy for A.

May I also point out that, the d1 wagon on Town player which I played a big part in derailing got up and succeeded again the following day, which I was explicitly against on d2

[MargotRosa]

Just did some light rereading to understand 806 better as I'm fairly confident Datsi is scum and am wondering whether Margot is town or scum.

Updates from page 13 to bottom of page 17 (These take me a while, and I have a meeting to get to in half an hour, so can’t finish. Apologies)

Kyo:

382 makes me like her better. A lot of the justifications comning out of this aren’t necessarily justifications I buy, but the post comes across as Townier than other slots. The Mewtaph meta stuff is very interesting. Feel like the Datsi stuff might be correlating for the sake of correlating though.

Aristeia:

I like this slot a little less. 383 is a wild reason to FoS datsi. Don’t know what to make of it; I don’t like Datsi either, but reading NM and Datsi as scum because NM was read as null, with his posting 2 (3 at a stretch) genuine content posts before this one, seems very strange.

In the case of both of the above, I don't think it would change anything necessarily. They are both Null still, but these are just things that I'm keeping an eye on.

As I've explained previously, Dwlee is now in my sum reads. But, to bring it home;

InnocentVillager:

I haaaaaate everything from 395 to 416. Me aside, the fact that Salsa and Datisi are the only other scum reads, despite everything in the preceding pages, blows my mind. Mind is further blown by the Town reads on Dwlee, mewtaph and gamma, all of whom, at least up until this point, have been scummy as shit. It reads so much like scum jumping in with no idea of the game state and throwing reads around based on the first few pages.

May switch vote after reqarding the rest of the thread and working out where the votes are atm

I started around here. This is the readslist that is soon to be followed by Margot E-1ing IV. I figured the wagon on Margot would start around here but it actually doesnt come for a while.

i'm a bit busy for the next 4-5 hours so i'll properly read and respond to all the posts then (i've skimmed a bit), but i wanted to out a hot take in the meantime:

iv is likely scum. the fact that he hasn't returned from his catching up yet from yesterday (and that catchup was like 5 pages with non-explained reads? lol) is indicative that he doesn't want to be in this game. and as much as it pains me to say, if iv is red, aristeia is somewhat likely to be a partner. mainly because her reads seem to be kind of consensus-y/yeetbaity players, but there's absolutely no mention of iv anywhere, who i think would fit that description rn. her last game with me made me think she's anti bus, so i could see her be trying to divert attention from iv here.

553 is around where the IV wagon takes off. Datisi starts a push, followed by Roden, Aristea, T3, and Margot. I think from context that at the time of 553, Dwlee and Datisi were already voting IV.

VOTE: innocentvillager

you are so silly datisi

if you want me to vote iv you need but ask

VOTE: iv

i would do anything for you

VOTE: innocentvillager

VOTE: InnocentVillager

That's e-1. What's your role?

Margot puts IV to E-1. The request for a claim doesn't feel natural but from what I understand Margot is not neurotypical and I'm willing to chock the tone up to that.

i'm a bit busy for the next 4-5 hours so i'll properly read and respond to all the posts then (i've skimmed a bit), but i wanted to out a hot take in the meantime:

iv is likely scum. the fact that he hasn't returned from his catching up yet from yesterday (and that catchup was like 5 pages with non-explained reads? lol) is indicative that he doesn't want to be in this game. and as much as it pains me to say, if iv is red, aristeia is somewhat likely to be a partner. mainly because her reads seem to be kind of consensus-y/yeetbaity players, but there's absolutely no mention of iv anywhere, who i think would fit that description rn. her last game with me made me think she's anti bus, so i could see her be trying to divert attention from iv here.

okay this is the basis for my push?

Datisi idk wtf ur doing here I hope you don’t actually believe this

I have been playing this game for less than 24 hours phoneposting and I am like 20+ pages behind or whatever

Granted the late start was my fault but I don’t see how You could think I’m just scum here

My catch was done in the middle of the workday which I don’t really have a real break I’m taking time out to play this

If you MUST know what I was doing last night I am with my partner celebrating a holiday and I don’t really want to be playing mafiascum during that

Was I seriously about to die because I hadn’t posted for like 16 hours?? Hello what the fuck Datisi? And how did people agree with that?

I swear dogshit like this makes me want to go back into hiatus I don’t have like 2 hours every day to devote to this and I shouldn’t have to explain myself every time I go away for a very reasonable amount of time

Datisi you are scum here trying to push a fast one on me while I am still in catchup more or town doing idk what maybe trying to tilt me into this. like I’d like to think Town gou isn’t this bad how can you possibly show so much confidence in this read just based on that. I hope you have a great explanation for this or I am vote parking you the rest of the game

actually one of the most ridiculous flashwagons I have seen in my life

Margot is also scum here or needs to go back to Newbie queue for intentionally putting me at E1 this early on AND asking for a claim especially with NM in the game but maybe not even

I will put a little bit of time into this tonight but if I’m going to get killed because im not poring over this for hours a day like cmon that’s just ridiculous

But looking at this post, IV singles out 2 people: Datisi and Margot. He probably spends about 80% of his post focused on Datisi and 20 on Margot. While Datisi has the more substantive read and Margot's vote is clearly easy to push as scummy, IV chooses to focus Datisi. This is something that indicates to me that possibly Margot is scum, because of how IV treated her in comparison to Datisi, who seems to be town.

I was very clear about why I don't like IV. I wanted a claim out of them. Maybe e-1 wasn't the best idea in the world, but it actually got them talking, and (albeit briefly) actually got pressure mounting. Which only works if people maintain it, rather than backing off.

I've been very clear that I need data to read, because I have not been playing on this site for long enough, nor am I nearly neurotypical enough to effectively read tone in an online forum. I'm genuinely annoyed that everyone backed off there so easily, and honestly frustrated that suddenly everyone is town reading someone who has been well described as scummy, by me and others.

Honestly more concerned at everyone backing off as acting in a way I'd consider scummy right now.

these are Margot's reactions to the counter push on her. She doesnt name any names here, and I dont think she follows up with anyone that backed down (Dwlee, as Roden is IC and cant be pushed).

To be clear, I'm not frustrated that people are FoS'ing me. I'm frustrated that people seem so resistant to getting a player up against a wall d1

Also at this point I hadn't noticed any FoS except maybe from IV, and again, Margot does not name names.

Updates from page 13 to bottom of page 17 (These take me a while, and I have a meeting to get to in half an hour, so can’t finish. Apologies)

Kyo:

382 makes me like her better. A lot of the justifications comning out of this aren’t necessarily justifications I buy, but the post comes across as Townier than other slots. The Mewtaph meta stuff is very interesting. Feel like the Datsi stuff might be correlating for the sake of correlating though.

Aristeia:

I like this slot a little less. 383 is a wild reason to FoS datsi. Don’t know what to make of it; I don’t like Datsi either, but reading NM and Datsi as scum because NM was read as null, with his posting 2 (3 at a stretch) genuine content posts before this one, seems very strange.

In the case of both of the above, I don't think it would change anything necessarily. They are both Null still, but these are just things that I'm keeping an eye on.

As I've explained previously, Dwlee is now in my sum reads. But, to bring it home;

InnocentVillager:

I haaaaaate everything from 395 to 416. Me aside, the fact that Salsa and Datisi are the only other scum reads, despite everything in the preceding pages, blows my mind. Mind is further blown by the Town reads on Dwlee, mewtaph and gamma, all of whom, at least up until this point, have been scummy as shit. It reads so much like scum jumping in with no idea of the game state and throwing reads around based on the first few pages.

May switch vote after reqarding the rest of the thread and working out where the votes are atm

I feel pretty good about this post rn (minus calling me and dwlee scummy)

I grabbed this because it was the last time Gamma interacted with or mentioned Margot before the 806 post.

just some brief thoughts i had on my skim

townlean i guess

T3 - I remember meta'ing this guy back in DEFCON mafia but i feel like he's way different now this doesn't resemble either his town or scum game. Guy doesn't care he's posting every thought and just vibing. which is kind of what i do as scum sometimes too but i don't think it's something most ppl do. Being open about feeling disconnected from the game feels +town and i some of his content looks bad on the surface but he doesn't give a fuck and i think some of his takes were reasonable. The "mindmeld" with salsa post felt real and i think the excitement was genuine idk that was kinda townpingy i guess. flashvote on me was bad but he could just be trigger happy.

north of null

kyouko - anyone who proactively and early does a meta dive scumcase that clearly laid out with no bullshit can be a townlean, unless it's someone who i know can put in the effort as scum like datisi. maybe kyouko's a good scum player too so idk but fine keeping that slot around for now. i feel meh about trusting these kinds of tells because i think they tend to be mean-reverting more than ppl expect but i like the spirit

datsi - concise and nonpostury takes are very non-lamist. i think scum!gamma might be more lamisty and wordy which is the vibe i got from him in LN something

mew - idk i take back the faker comparison he seems to be very open about his thoughts and is very willing to explain everything he's thinking which is a plus - maybe he's scum good at faking this kind of stuff even under pressure tho idk seems redeemable at least

idk

datisi - i honestly have no idea on datisi nothing he's done makes me think town or scum. push on me was bad but i can see it from scum him too. sorry dayteezee i know u are good at getting ppl to townread you but not me yet. i feel like as i keep interacting with you ill get a better sense for your alignment

salsa - i get a T3/unabombah vibe from this slot very spammy and ico style catchup lol. granted una was scum in the game im thinking of but vibe here is very frazzled. idk i can't really put into words here yet but meh.

dwlee - i think some of their earlier posting was fine and reminiscent of our recent game but i wasn't exactly trying to read dwlee there so idk this reread dwlee didn't stand out like at all. idk

I feel like IV is treating Salsa's catchup and Gamma's catchup differently. I also kinda think town!Gamma is more verbose so I'm suspicious of the TR, considering Salsa does not get one.

VOTE: margot

VOTE: MargotRosa

Yeah I'm kind of not up for waiting 24-48 hrs just for 786 and 787 again.

2 quick votes appear for Margot near the top of a page. Gamma hasn't posted since near the end of 2 pages prior. He has either been reading the previous page without commenting, and decided that Margot votes were worth commenting on, or he checked the thread, read everything since his last post, and decided none of the last page was worth responding to, but that the Margot votes were.

What’s the case for Margot again
I pretty much have had my entire perception of her vanish into thin air

The problem I'm having with what he chose to respond to is that IV directed a question straight at him and he ignored it. He also didnt respond after he commented on Margot. Then, IV directs yet another post at Gamma and Gamma still does not respond. IV also makes no indication he is bothered by Gamma not responding to his first question, in fact he treats him rather cordially. Here are the 2 posts. I think the scumteam has agreed to bus IV and Gamma got concerned that Margot was getting pressure, so they had Margot make that wall post condemning IV since he was essentially a dead man walking already.

The posts:

Also, his read on me is like, honestly the biggest towntell I can pinpoint, my play here is literally the antithesis of the game he’s comparing to where I was scum, so regardless of your read on me IV should be obvious town

can you explain this? why is iv town for noticing a difference in your play between the two games?

It’s the way he noticed it, I feel like there’s ways he could have spun it to not TR me for it, so unless he’s literally trying to pocket me specifically I think he’s just town

honestly i don't really get it either

what specifically do you think scum!me does differently if i have to bullshit a read on you?

What’s the case for Margot again
I pretty much have had my entire perception of her vanish into thin air

basically the E1 and direct ask for claim at that point was rolefishy, opportunistic, unnecessary and therefore bad

i could totally see someone just outing their role and claiming there

also for how much she complained about pressure alleviating on me where the fuck is she to put more pressure on me?

not trying to be a hypocrite so this part comes with a grain of salt but it’s been 3 days since the flashwagon and she’s barely been here, does she really care about this

meh it’s mostly about the Claim I just want an answer to at this point. Less that I actually think she’s like lockscum

Probably also worth pointing out that, after the posts you went through ssbm, and which I had forgotten, by Datsi actually gets off the IV wagon

votecount 1.9

Innocentvillager (4) :

T3 ; MargotRosa ; Aristeia ; Roden

Exe-3

Aristeia (2) :

Salsabil Faria ; Dwlee99

T3 (2) :

Datsi ; Datisi

Mewtaph (1) :

ssbm_Kyouko

Not_Mafia (1) :

Not_Mafia

MargotRosa (1) :

innocentvillager

Not voting (2) :

Mewtaph ; ChaosOmega

Day 1 ends in (expired on 2021-09-30 20:18:31) or when a wagon reaches majority at 7 votes

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Prodding Not_Mafia

flavor

Another life wasted in the pursuit of glory and gold.

[MargotRosa]

I did not mean to quote your post, again, and I apologise. However, the 1.9 vote tally is still there. It wasn't until my wall much later on that the IV wagon actually took off.

[MargotRosa]

So your theory relies on, likely just me, unilaterally deciding to actively support a wagon on IV twice, when neither IV nor myself were in danger of being eliminated, and indeed when I was actually creating pressure to put on myself. It also selectively picks out posts to make Datsi look scummy, but only in the world of your theory in which Scum is bussing their team member, a Scum PR no less (irrespective of how useful the PR actually was), for basically no reason.

I don't see how it makes any sense at all, and honestly almost makes me want to reconsider your slot, just by virtue of how odd I find that argument.

[Enchant]

Aren't mafia always bus each others on day 1?