Mini 672 - Tranquility (Game Over)

[Lord Gurgi]

The Sixteenth Votecount - Ten alive, six to lynch

Kmd4390 (3) - SpyreX, Porkens, Nameless

camn (2) - Kmd4390, Stef
charter (2) - camn, melikefood
Porkens (1) - charter

Not Voting (2) - ZazieR, Rishi

[Kmd4390]

I'm saying, like I did before, that the hammer isn't inherently scummy. I'm also taking umbrage at the "You wont get far without me" business.

I really think he was saying that you wouldn't last because the hammer would be too suspicious. I don't think he was saying we can't win without him. Charter, clarification please?

Read this again and see why "The Gambit" and how its affected your play is not a good thing and can easily be a scum coverup.

The only point I saw about how the scum could use it would be for them to catch newb townies. I already said that it can't be used that way because the Gambit puts newbs in their own group. Explain to me how scum could twist my Gambit in their favor.

FURTHERMORE, by the context of these softclaims they are all claiming 'investigative' roles (Tracker, Watcher, Cop).
I am unequivocally calling BS on at LEAST one of these claims. Hell, part of me says all three are junk, but. So, Camn, for now you're off the hook. I think the cases are readily available on each of Rishi, KMD and Charter. I support any of the above lynches (the one I currently have my vote on holds precedence).
Again, 3 investigative softclaims. Not buying it. Pro-lynch.

Not sure where you get tracker, watcher, cop from. Please don't say who you think is what. PR speculation only helps the scum.

[SpyreX]

The only point I saw about how the scum could use it would be for them to catch newb townies. I already said that it can't be used that way because the Gambit puts newbs in their own group. Explain to me how scum could twist my Gambit in their favor.

There are more newb townies than dumb scum. But thats not the point I'm making.

Either you are right or you are wrong. It really didn't help in giving even highly-probable scum catching. It also gives you every reason to focus on Camn at the expense of others. It has warped your play this game in a negative fashion.

Not sure where you get tracker, watcher, cop from. Please don't say who you think is what. PR speculation only helps the scum.

I may be missing some wacky ones but it REALLY doesn't even count watcher..and, honeslty, if its tracker I dont get it either. ALL THREE of you, in response to some question or another, have went "I have secrete information in regards to that."

Considering the only secrete information you could have would be well...an investigation.. I'm calling BS.

As for PR speculation helping the scum. Sure. I wasn't the one who started this with softclaiming.

[Nameless]

Please don't say who you think is what. PR speculation only helps the scum.

Wait, wasn't this in response to SpyreX actually calling BS on the softclaims? (Why yes, it was.) Again with the trying really hard to score townie points.

[Kmd4390]

Either you are right or you are wrong. It really didn't help in giving even highly-probable scum catching. It also gives you every reason to focus on Camn at the expense of others. It has warped your play this game in a negative fashion.

Why? Because you keep bringing it up? I've seen several scummy things from Camn. So have other people, including you. I am also suspicious of Porkens right now. I'm a little suspicious of Nameless too. If Porkens is scum, I will be more suspicious of Nameless and maybe you. I see that you are trying to call me out for tunnel vision. I do have other suspicions though.

I may be missing some wacky ones but it REALLY doesn't even count watcher..and, honeslty, if its tracker I dont get it either.

ALL THREE of you

, in response to some question or another, have went "I have secrete information in regards to that."

Wait, you think I soft claimed a PR??? Where?!?

I wasn't the one who started this with softclaiming.

I didn't softclaim...

Wait, wasn't this in response to SpyreX actually calling BS on the softclaims?

Yes and no. He said he is calling BS on "at least one" of the softclaims. That leaves the chance that 1 or 2, he could believe. I don't like the discussion, but I'm sure he is going to continue with it, force a fullclaim from a real PR, and get them killed either via calling BS and getting them lynched, or getting them NK'd. If you think someone is scum, and you see a softclaim, I'm sure there are other points you can look at. If they get close to a lynch and need to claim, they will. (assuming no one speed-hammers.)

[camn]

@KMD:

My honest answer would affect the town in a negative way.

Thats more of this awesome soft claiming.

Although I don't really think that this is much of a claim.... this is what Spy was referring to, KMD.

[SpyreX]

Answer me this:

What information could one possibly have that is relevant that would be negative to the town to know?

The only answer that makes ANY sense is a PR. KMD, Rishi and Charter have all done this stunt. They either have a PR or have lost their minds.

Again, I DID NOT go fishing or do this. All of this was of their own volition.

[Porkens]

I'm honestly still perplexed by KmD's current, paranoid reaction to discussing the soft claims. Now, I agree that day 2

is

a bad time to discuss PRs, but if someone soft-claims (and there is a big difference between soft-claiming and bread-crumming imo), it's it

that individual's

bad? Doesn't a claim bring up the discussion?

I mean, it's preposterous that a claim, soft or not, should be rewarded with a free-pass.

Especially

when it's day two and

double especially

when it's not even called for?

By not called for, I mean, it's not L-1, on anyone, and Rishi, KmD, charter, all said things that could be perceived as a soft claim as a response to a simple argument with someone else, or to back-up a case with little/no evidence.

In these cases, I have no compunction about asking for clarification, and I don't think the stink is on

me

for asking 'why' when someone demands 'don't argue with me.'

I'd like to see more from charter, at this point. Your last couple of posts left a very bad taste in my mouth. You vote, for me, and pre-emptively say "I don't care if no one believes me, and I'm not going to put much effort in trying to explain." What little explanation you did give; my 'unbelievable' case of camn and KMD slap-fighting and calling them scum doesn't hold water for me because you then proceed to make a similar case on myself and Nameless. Charter is really getting close to taking my vote off KMD at this point, so I'd like to see another post from him to solidify my decision.

Also, since this morning, Rishi has started to come apart at the seams for me. I'll go ahead and call all Rishi's day one stuff close to null. The terminology argument, for example, I don't think we are going anywhere with at this point. But his last post, in which he accuses SpyreX of tunnel-vision, rings as very, very over-defensive to me. Asking SpyreX to cast his net wider is reaching; as SpyreX has posted up on almost everyone. So, Rishi, can we get your thoughts on the other situations in the game? What do you think of Charter, Kmd, and Steff at this point?

Melikefood is getting away with murder, whether he is town or scum. I peg him as majority right now. The alternative is minority with BRASS BALLS. It's hard to take off the tin-foil hat, though.

I'd love a prod on Stef.

[charter]

This is why I'm doing this with you too - I've asked for a solid formulated case on Nameless when you had it there (so we could discuss it) and you FINALLY gave it...after you voted for Porkens. See why its not making sense to me?

The post where I requoted it was my first post in this game in pages. I told you already, it took so long because this game has really put me off. I gave you the case because you asked, and I voted porkens because I think he's scum. I don't understand what doesn't make sense to you.

I told you, that's cronological. I said I had scum vibes on rishi, what, six pages ago? On the last page he had a post that makes me think he's town.

What post and why? Explain these statements, please.

Post 485. I also don't understand what there is to explain and why you're so interested in my thoughts on Rishi. I had gotten scum vibes from Rishi a while ago, and that post cleared them up. I think that it was a post made by a townie (uninfor. maj.), not scum.

Yes, they are too long. However, you are strawmanning here. Long posts don't make you scum.

Length isn't the problem, it's the comparatively minimal content within it that's somewhat scummy and moreso annoying with Kmd's posts.

So how is it scummy to make long posts with a poor content/useless fluff ratio?

Scum are Porkens, nameless, camn in that order.

I like that after your long and unsuccessful campaign to have me lynched you finally shift your vote to someone else on the basis of an 'argument' that you admit isn't convincing anyone. Good luck with that.

A campaign? I didn't keep hounding you over trivialities, but made my case, no one else thought it had merit, which is fine. I'm not about to go and make up reasons you're scum to try and win them over.

Also, no need to take things not even directed at you nameless and try and turn them into attacks against me. It's not going to work.

Porkens quickhammer was not protown. However, it also wasn't anti-town. It was null. 100% null.

False, what if stormer was a cop or doc? It is most definately not a null tell. I'm not going to argue this either, if you don't see this it's clearly a matter of opinion of which neither of us will budge.

But, why does this get me. Lets look at it.
- You're accusing nameless of being scum and spreading suspicion around.
- You're voting for Porkens saying that kmd and camn are putting up a huge facade.
- You're saying nameless suspected everyone but Porkens and Drake.

(Aside from none of these being scumtells to me)...
I have done EVERY one of the above. I was the one who first brought up the kmd-camn business as a scum ploy. I made it very clear day one that I suspected everyone but, essentially, Porkens, Drake and Nameless. I put suspicion on every player in this game.

Moreso, I've been far more vocal about it.

I'm not just looking for scumtells and immediately assuming that person is scum. I've seen scumtells from everyone in this game (myself easily included) but that doesn't make them scum. I already told you that I look for which actions benefit scum and which do not. I then base my suspicions off of who is doing the scummy actions that benefit scum. I think it's fairly obvious that I think that you're not doing much in this game that benefits scum and nameless and porkens are.

So, Why Porkens or Nameless and not me? Its not adding up and, honestly, it really makes it feel like you're not even trying to hunt.

I think they are scum and you are not. Their actions are different than yours. If you actually think that, I'm sorry, but once again, you are wrong.

I think that if you actually thought Nameless was scum, you would ride his a$$ at every opportunity. you would twist everything HE says into making him look bad. But no, this game you are almost being....nice! And I don't like it. It is suspicious to me. You are going WAY too easy on him AND porkens to convince me you actually think they are scum, which makes me think you know who the scum actually are... ergo, you are scum.

If I played the exact same in every game I'd be a pretty poor mafia player. I've already explained, but here it is again. This game with it's massive posts puts me off and I just don't put as much effort into it as I have with others.
Also, your 'I'm not twisting what they say to make them look bad so I must be scum' is scumlogic.

Charter, clarification please?

One quickhammer is bad. Two is unforgivable.

[Porkens]

Ok, Charter, can you please elaborate on this:

Porkens is scum, believe me or don't but this right here is him knowing the two are not connected in (scum) alignment. I'm not trying to convince anyone that Porkens is scum (with this point) so save your breath from saying I'm OMGUSing or using craplogic.
##unvote, ##vote porkens

You are saying here (I think) that you're voting me because of A: my assertion that KmD and Camn are minority-buddies and B: "?"

Is that fair to say? Can you elaborate on the B?

[SpyreX]

I'll deal with other words later:

My honest answer would affect the town in a negative way.

There may be other reasons why I might have had a change of position on melikefood. Think about it and let me know if you still want this question answered.

I'm onto something but horribly wrong in my entire read of the game? What am I wrong on and more importantly.. WHY do you think so?

You know I cant answer this right now.

Explain these statements. Period.

[charter]

No. I'm not answering it today.

I didn't list another reason when I voted you, but if you want one it goes back to Nameless's suspicion spreading and leaving you out of it.

[charter]

The first part of that directed at spyrex and the second part at porkens.

[Nameless]

So how is it scummy to make long posts with a poor content/useless fluff ratio?

Because you're disguising the fact that you're helping the town very little, and distracting from more important discussion. Now will people please stop asking stupid questions?

Also, no need to take things not even directed at you nameless and try and turn them into attacks against me. It's not going to work.

Oh, that's right, I'm sorry, I'm only allowed to point out the scummy things you do when you specifically address ME. My bad.
As for the campaign, I was referring to the way you were overly sure I was the most scummy player for quite a while.

I think they are scum and you are not. Their actions are different than yours.

Elaborate this statement, please, as you didn't exactly answer SpyreX's questions.

Explain these statements. Period.

SpyreX, given we already have MORE than enough to lynch several scummy players, I'm not sure forcing this issue today is going to be of any benefit. Also, I'm somewhat worried it's only going to distract from actually lynching somebody by deadline ...

[SpyreX]

But all three of them are scummy. So it helps... watch!

##Unvote: KMD
##Vote: Charter

[Porkens]

I didn't list another reason when I voted you, but if you want one it goes back to Nameless's suspicion spreading and leaving you out of it.

Ok, so, you are saying relying on connections is scummy, but your whole case against me is a connection with nameless.

##Unvote: KMD

##Vote: Charter

Fake Edit: Spyrex beat me to it.

[charter]

Porkens, you aren't even trying to read what I say. You don't even respond to what I say. All you do is make up crap that you think people will believe.

Speaking of cases, where is yours on me porkens? Oh you don't have one? That's convenient.

[SpyreX]

Ok, now for real words.

@KMD:

Why? Because you keep bringing it up? I've seen several scummy things from Camn. So have other people, including you. I am also suspicious of Porkens right now. I'm a little suspicious of Nameless too. If Porkens is scum, I will be more suspicious of Nameless and maybe you. I see that you are trying to call me out for tunnel vision. I do have other suspicions though.

Of course I'm going to keep bringing it up because you keep holding onto it. Yes, there are other things Camn has done that I and others have seen.

I think thats two or three people now that have seen some mystical connection between Porkens, Namless and I. Wanna know the connection on my end? They are the two other most pro-town players in the mess right now.

I didn't softclaim...

Then respond to my question.

Yes and no. He said he is calling BS on "at least one" of the softclaims. That leaves the chance that 1 or 2, he could believe. I don't like the discussion, but I'm sure he is going to continue with it, force a fullclaim from a real PR, and get them killed either via calling BS and getting them lynched, or getting them NK'd. If you think someone is scum, and you see a softclaim, I'm sure there are other points you can look at. If they get close to a lynch and need to claim, they will. (assuming no one speed-hammers.)

At least one - IF NOT ALL. I'm still very leaning to all 3 being BS because of the timing.

@Charter:

The post where I requoted it was my first post in this game in pages. I told you already, it took so long because this game has really put me off. I gave you the case because you asked, and I voted porkens because I think he's scum. I don't understand what doesn't make sense to you.

You gave a case on Nameless and nothing really on Porkens -- in fact, some of it as you have said is the connection you see between Nameless and Porkens. Yet you vote Porkens over Nameless.

Post 485. I also don't understand what there is to explain and why you're so interested in my thoughts on Rishi. I had gotten scum vibes from Rishi a while ago, and that post cleared them up. I think that it was a post made by a townie (uninfor. maj.), not scum.

Why am I interested? Because I think there's a decent chance you are both scum together. The fact that you'd cite 485 (where he accuses me of tunnel visioning) as the pro-town post is just flabbergasting, honestly.

So how is it scummy to make long posts with a poor content/useless fluff ratio?

Really?

False, what if stormer was a cop or doc? It is most definitely not a null tell. I'm not going to argue this either, if you don't see this it's clearly a matter of opinion of which neither of us will budge.

Pressure coming on, not claiming. In fact, he mostly lurked or came out with nothing. I see nothing wrong with moving on versus stalling the game. If he was the cop or doc I'd have been pissed - because having power role != playing like a crazy person.

I'm not just looking for scumtells and immediately assuming that person is scum. I've seen scumtells from everyone in this game (myself easily included) but that doesn't make them scum. I already told you that I look for which actions benefit scum and which do not. I then base my suspicions off of who is doing the scummy actions that benefit scum. I think it's fairly obvious that I think that you're not doing much in this game that benefits scum and nameless and porkens are.

Again, the actions you have cited as your case on both of the above have also been done by me. I do not understand how the same set of actions makes me town and them not. In fact, the self-same actions are part of the reason I think THEY are town as well as me.

One quickhammer is bad. Two is unforgivable.

What's three? Thats a new goal I'm shooting for then!

SpyreX, given we already have MORE than enough to lynch several scummy players, I'm not sure forcing this issue today is going to be of any benefit. Also, I'm somewhat worried it's only going to distract from actually lynching somebody by deadline ...

Ahh, but see they're already scummy - in fact, sans Camn, they are my main suspects! Until those questions are answered this is going to be my new crusade - I am totally explain-or-die with that whole mess. Maybe if the Charter wagon gets some steam I can unvote and then powerhammer. That'd be sweeeeet.

[Porkens]

Ok, charter, I'm honestly not sure what you're trying to say then; honestly.

This is what I'm talking about:

Connections

Porken's saying that you and kmd are scum putting up a huge facade is the wildest and most untrue thing I've seen said this whole game. However, I can see how most people might buy in to it (except you and kmd).

I read this as 'trying to identify a connection between KMD and Camn is scummy.'

But in the same post:

Also, I'm going back to Nameless's suspecting everyone but porkens and drake. I still think Nameless is scum, and I still think porkens was omitted for a reason (because they are scumbuddies). Porken's quickhammer was not protown.

I read this as 'Porkens and Drake are connected.'

Also;

Porkens is scum, believe me or don't but

this right here is him knowing the two are not connected in (scum) alignment.

I believe this was in response to me saying "I think at least one of KMD or Camn is scum."

How does that give you the idea that I

know

they are

not

connected?

While we are at it; I guess I really don't get this next one, either:

I'm not trying to convince anyone that Porkens is scum (with this point) so save your breath from saying I'm OMGUSing or using craplogic.

So...I don't know man. Are you just really frustrated with the game? This one seems to be a 'giving up' post.

Finally; why did this happen:

@ Charter: If you were in a 3 man endgame with Kmd and Porkens, who would you vote?

Meh, think I'd go with a Porkens vote.

I really haven't seen a whole lot that porkens has done that was scummy (though I can go back and check I suppose).

I actually said nothing about Porkens at the start of day two.

So, in summary, from

reading

your posts, my impression is this:

1.

With the one hand you are drawing a line from Nameless to myself while, with the other hand, you are demonizing me for doing the same thing with KmD and Camn.

2.

You're happy to tell people they are wrong, but don't want/can't explain why.

3.

Rather than discuss your points, when questioned, you are overly defensive and tell people "OMFG YOUR NOT EVEN READING."

Trust me, I am reading your posts, and I want to understand what you mean. I'm not attacking you for crap logic; I don't understand what logic you are using.

I'd like to see this discussed, but you've said you don't want to do that. I'm not intentionally trying to put stank on your posts but man, but I did read them, and I thought I understood them, but now I'm confused again.

[charter]

You gave a case on Nameless and nothing really on Porkens -- in fact, some of it as you have said is the connection you see between Nameless and Porkens. Yet you vote Porkens over Nameless.

Why would doing this make me scum? Hint, it doesn't.

Why am I interested? Because I think there's a decent chance you are both scum together. The fact that you'd cite 485 (where he accuses me of tunnel visioning) as the pro-town post is just flabbergasting, honestly.

You are tunneling so bad it's not even funny. How many people are we up to that am I scum with now? Seriously, you're doing the same thing as Nameless where you're finding more scum than there are. Guess what the explanations is, they aren't all scum.

Really?

It's unhelpful, but I don't see any scum motive behind posting obvious fluff. Perhaps if that's all kmd was doing, but it's not. The explanation I was given as to why you guys think it's scummy the first time around was crap as well.

Pressure coming on, not claiming. In fact, he mostly lurked or came out with nothing. I see nothing wrong with moving on versus stalling the game. If he was the cop or doc I'd have been pissed - because having power role != playing like a crazy person.

This is all crap too. You're assuming nothing happened to him in real life, he didn't also find this game a drag, a million other things. Just because you have a power role doesn't mean you have to play cautiously. Having a power role doesn't affect your play.

Again, the actions you have cited as your case on both of the above have also been done by me. I do not understand how the same set of actions makes me town and them not. In fact, the self-same actions are part of the reason I think THEY are town as well as me.

Of course they are going to buddy up to you. You're also going to keep making it through the night. Night after night, because you are wrong and you have tunneled in on the wrong people.

As for the rest of your post, you are being a complete fool.

[charter]

Ok, charter, I'm honestly not sure what you're trying to say then; honestly.

This is what I'm talking about:

Connections

Porken's saying that you and kmd are scum putting up a huge facade is the wildest and most untrue thing I've seen said this whole game. However, I can see how most people might buy in to it (except you and kmd).

I read this as 'trying to identify a connection between KMD and Camn is scummy.'

You read wrong, it was what I said. The theory that camn and kmd are scumbuddies putting on a huge show is completely ridiculous.

But in the same post:

Also, I'm going back to Nameless's suspecting everyone but porkens and drake. I still think Nameless is scum, and I still think porkens was omitted for a reason (because they are scumbuddies). Porken's quickhammer was not protown.

I read this as 'Porkens and Drake are connected.'

Once again, you're not reading what I'm saying, you're reading what you want to read. I made a connection between nameless and porkens, and I made a connection between nameless and drake. I didn't make any assumptions between drake and porkens. The fact that you are now suggesting that makes me oh so much happier with my vote.

Also;

Porkens is scum, believe me or don't but

this right here is him knowing the two are not connected in (scum) alignment.

I believe this was in response to me saying "I think at least one of KMD or Camn is scum."

This is ridiculous

I bolded so someone might read this. Porkens is now just making up crap out of nothing. IF YOU HAD READ MY POST THAT YOU QUOTED, YOU WOULD HAVE SEEN ONE LINE UP WHERE IT WAS YOUR CAMN-KMD SCUMBUDDY SHOW THEORY THAT IT WAS IN RESPONSE TO. I don't recall you ever saying at least one of kmd-camn is scum, you've always had them together. Seriously people, Porkens is scum trying to change his story because he's under suspicion.

How does that give you the idea that I

know

they are

not

connected?

Because no townie would ever put forth such a preposterous theory.

While we are at it; I guess I really don't get this next one, either:

I'm not trying to convince anyone that Porkens is scum (with this point) so save your breath from saying I'm OMGUSing or using craplogic.

So...I don't know man. Are you just really frustrated with the game? This one seems to be a 'giving up' post.

Stop trying to tell me what my posts are. If I was giving up I'd just get replaced. I realized that others might not see how scummy your kmd-camn idea is and might not agree with it. So what do I do? I look for other stuff that they will agree with.

1.

With the one hand you are drawing a line from Nameless to myself while, with the other hand, you are demonizing me for doing the same thing with KmD and Camn.

No, your putting forth the idea that kmd and camn are scum putting on a show is what I'm "demonizing" you for. The fact that both you and Nameless got so worked up about it, and then attacked me for 'doing the same thing' when it's clearly a different scenario reaffirms that I'm right.

2.

You're happy to tell people they are wrong, but don't want/can't explain why.

Can't, which I've already said, so why do you keep pushing it?

3.

Rather than discuss your points, when questioned, you are overly defensive and tell people "OMFG YOUR NOT EVEN READING."

I try not to even acknowledge crap cases put out against me, however, I see I'm fairly close to being lynched, so I might have to start shooting them down.

Trust me, I am reading your posts, and I want to understand what you mean. I'm not attacking you for crap logic; I don't understand what logic you are using.

Then start reading what I actually write instead of what you want to read.

Good work with your quoting me out of context and adding your personal timestamp to my posts as well. I suggest if anyone else is going to read anything porken's writes, go back and check to make sure he's telling the full story, I doubt he is. As he isn't in this case as well.

[camn]

I got a question for you, Charter.. now that things are getting serious:

you said:

Porken's saying that you and kmd are scum putting up a huge facade is the wildest and most

untrue

thing I've seen said this whole game....

Also, you said:

Ugh, to elaborate on why I'm

suspicious

of

camn

and Porkens....

And

Also, your 'I'm not twisting what they say to make them look bad so I must be scum' is

scumlogic

My question is this:
Do you think I am scum?
If so.. why is Porkens calling me scum scummy?
Or is it Porkens trying to link me to KMD that is scummy, because you are so confident of KMD's innocence?

[Nameless]

I only have about two minutes before I'm off to work, so ...

## Unvote: Kmd4390
## Vote: Charter

[SpyreX]

As for the rest of your post, you are being a complete fool.

I'm going to start with this because, really, the INTERNET GAUNTLET HATH BEEN THROWN. I actually felt bad for "pushing" too hard - I thought perhaps it was making the game not fun for players. Now, honestly, I dont care. When it comes to this kind of point.. I just dont have words.

However, I have plenty of other words.

Why would doing this make me scum? Hint, it doesn't.

See, this game Mafia involves a larger group that doesn't know each other (referred herein as the "majority") versus a smaller group that does know each other (referred herein as the "minority"). The minority wins when they become the majority. Now, how do they do such a thing? By persuading the majority that they, IN FACT, are part of said majority and pushing lynches during the day (and killing at night).

Alas, the table seems in favor of the minority, does it not? Well, the majority has one great tool to sort out the good from the bad: logic!

By looking at who is pushing what, and for what

reasons

, the town can discuss and see if there is a chance of ulterior motive. HOWEVER, for such a plan to work there has to be reasons - "gut" doesn't do the majority any good in really delving into the methods behind the madness.

Now, how does that little story equate to you being scummy?

Going "Here is the case on Nameless. This is why I think he may be scum" is GOOD. It gives us reasons. However, before the case going "HURF DURF BUTTERFLIES VOTE PORKENS" does NOT give us reasons.

Now, would that in and of itself be scummy? Only slightly - mostly just anti-town. However, when the target is someone who has "had suspicions" and could, potentially, be a late wagon if the game stalls it becomes scummy.

You are tunneling so bad it's not even funny. How many people are we up to that am I scum with now? Seriously, you're doing the same thing as Nameless where you're finding more scum than there are. Guess what the explanations is, they aren't all scum.

I love this. I just do. See, where I come from words HAVE meanings. Tunneling, in context, implies focusing my attentions on a person - hell, I'll be generous and say two could still be considered tunneling. However, when I have had four major suspects this word no longer means what you think it does.

As for them all not being scum? Sure. DOES THAT MEAN THAT THE CORRECT ANSWER IS GOING "HAY, SCUM IT UP ITS OK. SOFTCLAIM ROLES, DONT GIVE REASONS FOR YOUR ACTIONS, JUST HURF IT UP BECAUSE WELL YOU CANT ALL BE SCUM!"

Nope. It sure doesn't. Yes, in a perfect world there would be X number of people scummin' it up when X = number of suspected scum. Alas, when that isn't true then you do the only thing you can - you hang the whole mass, one at a time. You decided you wanted to be first and that is A-OK with me!

It's unhelpful, but I don't see any scum motive behind posting obvious fluff. Perhaps if that's all kmd was doing, but it's not. The explanation I was given as to why you guys think it's scummy the first time around was crap as well.

You can't see a scum motive for posting obvious fluff? You can not see a scum reason for appearing active while, in fact, not providing information that moves the game ahead? I'd say I was surprised, but that'd be a baldfaced lie.

This is also the first time in this post you've decided to use the elegant and helpful word "crap" to describe something. Perhaps, maybe, just maybe, you could explain what is wrong with it so we could talk it through and find flaws or come to a consensus? Nah, doubt thats happenin' though.

This is all crap too. You're assuming nothing happened to him in real life, he didn't also find this game a drag, a million other things. Just because you have a power role doesn't mean you have to play cautiously. Having a power role doesn't affect your play.

ALAS, once again you have caught me on my "crap". I didn't take into account a million things

that are not part of the game

or

brought to our attention by the aforementioned Stormer as problems that could delay his play.

I mean, yes, he could have been hit by a meteorite and only able to use his pinky and that made typing really hard so instead of playing like a rational person he does "WHO IS AM COP" and I am so COLD AND CALLOUS for not thinking of such a reason for said behavior. Or, the fact that he wasn't playing and was doing scummy things warrants a lynch - and every step of the way up that lynch gave me no reason to question the hammer, fast or slow.

As for the latter half. Yes, having a power role doesn't mean you have to play cautiously - however, it is not a shield for playing

badly

. Stormer was playing badly. I'm not going to sit and bite my nails hoping and waiting for a response - I would have hammered it too.

Of course they are going to buddy up to you. You're also going to keep making it through the night. Night after night, because you are wrong and you have tunneled in on the wrong people.

I really like how this set of words seems like it is missing a larger and much more important set of words for it to make sense in conjunction with what you quoted.

I went: What you have called A and B scummy for are a set of actions that I have done either more obviously or first or just more vocal. Yet, you think they are scum and, due to the fact you haven't said so, think I am not. Also, as an addendum, these behaviors you find scummy I find as pro-town behavior - hence the same things they are doing that I am also doing make me believe that they are town.

You reply: Of course they are buddying up to you! You have no free will or ability to think on your own! You ARE THE TOOL OF THE PROLETARIAT AND WILL BE THE DOWNFALL OF THE MASSES. WEEP FOR SPYREX, FOR IN HIS FOOLISH FOOLISHNESS HE SHALL BE THE ENDER OF WORLDS AND WE WILL BE UNABLE TO STOP HIM. WEEP YE IN DESPAIR AS SPYREX SENDS THEE TO THE GALLOWS. HE WILL NEVER BE KILLED. HE CAN NOT BE STOPPED. WE ARE POWERLESS AGAINST HIM.

(Slight emphasis added).

Alas, one and all, he is right. I am the fool. Unable to see the chasm ahead of me for I stare into the sun. Sadly for all of you, who are apparently charmed by my bells into total submission - I am your Pied Piper and I will lead you merrily of the cliff in the Abyss itself.

You know what? If I had more votes I'd put all of them on you but one, ask you for a claim, then scream "JUST KIDDING" and throw the hammer down.

I asked a simple question that led into this. You didn't want to answer and gave no adequate reasons for not wanting to answer.

I think you're scum. I think your play has been suspect.
However, that aside, after the last set of events short of having a mod-confirmed cop say he had a mod-confirmed innocent result on you I'd throw the hammer down.

A vote for Charter is a vote for freedom. Hell, it's just delaying the inevitable because it is I who have dominion. I will play my pipes and you will dance - why try to fight it?

[SpyreX]

P.S. - Probably not posting again tonight.