Mini 2240: SCP Upick (SCP 682 Ending)

[Cephrir]

[one-liner]

VOTE: dwlee

[Cephrir]

VOTE: StrangeMatter

Alas, I'm too slow today to be a trendsetter.

[Cephrir]

I think this might actually be scum?

[Cephrir]

Something about the way that post is worded and what it chooses to focus on just doesn't sit right with me, idk.

[Cephrir]

you did the right thing imo

VOTE: infinity zero

[Cephrir]

we really gonna come out here and pretend sm's reactions didn't look scummy now huh. reading people is easy when you've seen their flip

[Cephrir]

i decided to vote them at the top of the page, scrolled down to see 3 more votes or whatever, and didn't see why that should stop me. i don't think running people up to e-1 early is bad. you're only mad about it because some genius quickhammered

[Cephrir]

i was not planning to end d1 within the first 24 hours. you're taking out your frustration on me because the person who is at fault isn't here

[Cephrir]

both zyla & roden look town here tho i guess

[Cephrir]

i don't agree that that was literally all they said. not sure there is much point in relitigating it now though.

[Cephrir]

i think you're missing that those posts are scummy

i also don't love the way they focused mostly on mechanics and talking about other games in their other posts

[Cephrir]

other than myself, those reads seem pretty good

happy with my vote

[Cephrir]

This feels like a reach, there just wasn't enough content or posts at the time to say they looked scummy, RVS had barely even ended at the time.

I feel like it's kinda not my problem if you dont read as deeply as I am reading

[Cephrir]

ceph, would love it if you could briefly walk me through your mindset at the time - specifically what was going through your mind when they claimed cop

I am surprised this is so controversial tbh. I thought cop was likely to be a scare away claim, especially as I was not expecting a straight up cop to exist in what seems like a complex setup. I felt the way that they claimed it didn't seem like it was coming from a town mindset and some of their other posts (which multiple other players keep pretending didnt exist???) Were bad as well. I can get more detailed momentarily

[Cephrir]

Huh, that RVS ended very quickly for a lot of people or felt like it.

Don't claim your scp flavor, it's linked to the breach mechanic. It's likely that more dangerous subjects have more dangerous breaches.

Don't be afraid to not use an ability as town if it uses up d-class or security personnel. I don't think all town players are supposed to use their abilities every night.

I like this post.

I agree both of what Dunnstral has said. The Upick is likely designed for not everyone to use their roles and flavor as balance if the roles are probably town favored. However, can't really say if this is town or mafia trying to look good with two fairly reasonable ideas out there, so I'm going to put a pin in this for now.

This post is pretty useless

Huh, that RVS ended very quickly for a lot of people or felt like it.

VOTE: strange matter

This is a scum tell

I want to hear what this tell is by the way.

I think this is when I decided to vote this person. The main goal of my vote was pressure, but I felt that caring about why someone has an issue with them on page 4 is a scum trait. if i were scum, i might have been scared to e-1 someone and draw attention to myself and definitely would have provided a nice looking reason for my vote, but ok let's do level 1 thinking and pretend i couldn't do that for some reason because i'm so bad

Yeah ok.

Btw I can confirm it is a PR role a newbie game would probably have, which is Cop, which I use 5 D-Class to check if they are Town or not.

Either way I don't think my role will be useful anymore unless we happened to have a doctor.

i really didn't like this post. the weasel wording around getting to cop was weird to me, what is the point of telling us this. it seemed like a desperate attempt to link it to something they were already talking about? and discounting their usefulness made me think they were scum who was going to pretend to be roleblocked so they wouldn't have to produce helpful results. so i suggested that they might actually be scum. which was a completely normal thing to do for someone who couldn't see into the future. i wanted to talk about it more and keep them under pressure.

I think this might actually be scum?

I mean go ahead, follow the scumtell with almost no objections to it which nobody has stated and I don't know, kill PR and have another member of Town die.

this is fearmongering which i also feel is a scum trait

This wagon just stinks of Infiltrators if anyone asks me. If you need my flip to confirm it I don't know what to tell you.

this is omgus

I'm not going to claim what my flavor is at this point. Only 5 pages in and town has already screwed themselves over, and I'm already annoyed at this game.

and this is being deliberately unhelpful. thought a cop should want to play and not take their ball and go home after a barely post rvs nothing wagon. they crumbled under pressure and it looked like scum. again, i didn't plan to elim them on page 5, but if i saw someone act like this in another game i would vote them again. i'd be right 8 times out of 10.

[Cephrir]

"I dont like the places scp 999 has decided to - " gonna stop you right there chief- you're going the level 1 route of assuming disagree = mafia

idk why you would assume don't like doesn't mean "i think it's scummy". it usually does

[Cephrir]

I'm probably going to scum read Cephrir for life because of another game we played in so I have to be careful with him that I don't confbias myself.

i feel like im going to townread you for life for the same reason, bc i was pushing on stuff there that i legitimately believed tended to come from scum and now i know you just do those things

although im not townreading you yet here i guess!

[Cephrir]

disagree but that can be a postgame discussion because I have strong opinions about it and it would derail the game. Basically i think the "scummy" part is debatable in terms of player accuracy level in finding actual scumtells

ok well for future reference if i say i dislike something it means i think it's scummy or coming from scum and the opposite goes for liking

[Cephrir]

I won't be around for the rest of the night, so here's a readslist

LLD - Lock Town

Dunn, Galron - Town
Ampharos - Light Town
Roden - Null Town
Dwlee, Infinity, SCP - Null
Sir Cakes - Scum Lean
Cephrir - Scum

GIF - Definitely Scummy, all of his posts are major TMI

why aren't you voting for me then

[Cephrir]

Ceph why did you feel the need to justify your vote on someone who is already dead?

because i was being harassed about it

[Cephrir]

i don't know that i think that's genuinely a slip but i still think that slot is scum anyway so i don't really care

[Cephrir]

hey cakez - why am i scummy?

why was my vote scummy?

You remind me of leon kuwata

[Cephrir]

I guess probably no one but gamma will understand that post

[Cephrir]

Cakez feels town here :3

[Cephrir]

to put my earlier thought into understandable words

i feel like scp's response to pressure seems to consistently be to ask a ton of basically bad faith questions in an attempt to bury the person suspecting them because it takes longer to answer a question than to ask one so when they can't answer them all scp has "won the argument"

[Cephrir]

it's like getting all up in their face in real life

why'd you do that huh?
what's with this huh?
[without waiting long enough for them to answer] why arent you saying anything huh huh huh?

[Cephrir]

to put my earlier thought into understandable words

i feel like scp's response to pressure seems to consistently be to ask a ton of basically bad faith questions in an attempt to bury the person suspecting them because it takes longer to answer a question than to ask one so when they can't answer them all scp has "won the argument"

how are they bad faith?

its literally asking people to ellaborate their thought process - this is how you find town.

maybe you should listen to people who have consistent wins as town like i have been - they tell me the same thinga -look for the thought process, don't look at just the actions.

you can do that without asking 17 questions

cool brag and inexplicable attempt at negging me like i've never played mafia before

[Cephrir]

jk it's not a brag i misread

[Cephrir]

it's like getting all up in their face in real life

why'd you do that huh?
what's with this huh?
[without waiting long enough for them to answer] why arent you saying anything huh huh huh?

i say the last thing when people decide to start other conversation topics without answering - point out where i do so without the other person posting.

you've been playing mafia since 2006, had perhaps a higher expectation of you to understand basic mafia concepts.

are you always this fun to interact with

[Cephrir]

i don't know why you've decided i don't look at thought processes and am a stupid idiot just because i'm not loving the style of your lines of questioning

[Cephrir]

"complaining" is not a fair characterization, i am attempting to decide whether this is a scum motivated tactic

[Cephrir]

ah, i see, questioning you is proscum. i didn't realize. my b.

[Cephrir]

is it? you're going on about the importance of thought processes but when i start thinking about yours suddenly that sucks and is bad

[Cephrir]

Cakez feels town here :3

do you think cakez is town because he is doing agreeable things that you are seeing or is there something deeper here?

as in we preflipping people or nah?

ill be honest i said that 30% because of a nice vibe from like 1 post and 70% to see if it would annoy you

[Cephrir]

hey cakez - why am i scummy?

why was my vote scummy?

You remind me of leon kuwata

I guess probably no one but gamma will understand that post

While it’d probably be fun to gab about this I also kinda don’t wanna when your SR on me is in terrible faith? Like, you are clearly blind to the fact the same shit you seem to be pushing us for is the same shit you pulled.

-Gamma

you can't just call everything you don't like bad faith. it's not a good way to start a conversation when i literally know for a fact that it is not in bad faith.

i don't really have any idea what you're talking about though.

[Cephrir]

i'd like it if you could try to explain this when you're calmer because the signal:noise is very low right now

[Cephrir]

How the hell else am I supposed to take you calling your approach to SM acceptable and then slamming us when we’ve basically done the same damn shit in that department? I don’t think mechanics and meta talk are fair things to push us on when the game had barely started generating real content when SM got hammered and meta is basically the backbone of my playstyle, as much as I try to fight it.

i don't feel that we have done the same shit in that department. different posts are different even if they include the same votes. i also feel that this pissiness from you is your scum meta, but i know that hearing that isn't going to help

this game is so weird why is everyone fixated on the weirdest shit

[Cephrir]

Could someone please tell me why the hell we’re actually getting sussed? The most I’ve seen was Ceph saying that we’re “focused on mechanics” which at least on my part I don’t feel like I have been, and I think picking at me for talking about other games in relation to this one is the dumbest fucking thing ever for Cephrir who’s played me plenty enough to know that’s how I am. And everyone that isn’t Cephrir has done jack-fucking-all to rationalize SRing us.

-Gamma

on a quick skim of your iso this is the only post i see that fits the above description, but i could be missing something.

it's true that you do like to talk about other games a lot.

i'll think on it some more. i haven't lockscummed you forever and am feeling chill about the whole thing at this exact moment

[Cephrir]

Theres only 1 unaccounted for dclass and i am already a town protective - and for me to DISABLE my ability is 2 dclass so I'm having trouble believing this vig claim - especially since its 1 shot and so gated supposedly.

can you think of any reason why you have this ability? i can't

[Cephrir]

oh right. nvm.

[Cephrir]

Towniness isn't based on actions for me, galron and dunn both didn't have bad vibes

Can you elaborate on both parts of this?

[Cephrir]

Ok this is a random question for everyone : but who feels that Roden has flown really hard under the radar?

Sure. I liked his opening today but that's really the only time I've had a thought about him at all.

[Cephrir]

ok like full honesty i want to switch to roden 100% but like im afraid of people then flipping it as me trying to "save a partner" [zyla] and then like end up mislimming today and then tomorrow is even worse and we snowball into a loss - so i'm being careful trying to make sure we can cooperate - but if people are willing to listen and be convinced, I'd like to shine light on Roden here right now.

Obviously I want the information, we can decide what to do afterwards

[Cephrir]

@Cephir, I have possibly the least experience playing with you - only doing so by proxy via Team Mafia iirc - what would you say are key differences in play when you are scum vs when you are town? - I'm basically asking you to explain why you are town for sure here. I am asking this from a place of townreading you - but I'm currently at a point where everyone feels *good* to some degree and I need to start raising the bar more.

I'm a good scum player, at least as far as avoiding the lim. I excel at sounding town tonally and imitating my town game.

At a baseline, I tend to play more confident and care more as scum and be kind of a sideline/support player as town (though I still post plenty usually), but I'm aware of this so will sometimes project lower confidence and/or wim on purpose. Perhaps unfortunately, having bad reads is probably a towntell. As for how to tell the difference, I honestly don't know, but some people seem to manage it. I'm probably better at sounding town on my own than managing associatives?

[Cephrir]

genuine but not overblown frustration about the d1 elim; good mechanics spec

-infinity

but this is not a good holistic reason to townread ?

thats not how effective scumhunting works - you should know that.

The former is basically what I liked as well. Dude has 20 posts, I can only work with what I've got. And I mean as expressed above I'm not actually a good scumhunter so nyeh.

[Cephrir]

now we're really nitpicking huh

[Cephrir]

worrying about dunn right now seems like a waste of energy

[Cephrir]

I know I'm pretty checked out right now. Sorry. I probably shouldn't be playing mafia with everything I have going on right now, but I'm gonna do it anyways.

[Cephrir]

VOTE: Zyla

Every post they make hurts me inside.

[Cephrir]

I don't know about clearing Zyla tbh I couldn't even follow that but if y'all want to move that's fine.

VOTE: LLD

No. VOTE: Galron

[Cephrir]

interacted with an scp here meaning... used a night action? or something to do with flavor?

[Cephrir]

hm. ok.

[Cephrir]

no one is going to have an answer for that and you know it

it's still a foolish direction to pursue right now

[Cephrir]

i feel like half the slots in this game are basically empty and i'd probably be willing to vote for any of them

maybe that's just a passing gripe

[Cephrir]

1) there was only 1 kill. I am a self protective who self disabled protection. Occams razor can conclude with known information that there is an equal chance that there was a save and that there was no vig shot.
2) lld claimed 1 shot. We have no future way to verify the claim now according to her.
3) the only proof of ability used is resources drained. The win con for scum is to gain a majority/plurality or drain all resources. It is reasonable to think there is a chance they have resource draining abilities.

all of this makes the claim NAI and should NOT be at all factoring into your read on her - like seriously i have not once mentioned that I scumread her off the claim and that the fact theres no proof just maintains plausibility.

nah

i agree that scum vigs are possible, but they're not the most likely thing, and so it's enough to look past the slot especially when there are plenty of others i have equally no reason to townread

i don't think scum took a shot on someone who was going to come under fire today with their normal nightkill

[Cephrir]

VOTE: Dwlee

off the top of my head this slot feels the emptiest to me out of the empty slots

[Cephrir]

galron is pretty close to that title though, can't remember anything either of them has posted. at least i remember sircakez and roden existing at least once

[Cephrir]

then it's even worse that i don't remember any of it

[Cephrir]

inspiring!

[Cephrir]

Roden/Galron/Ampharos
one of these can go

Why isnt dwlee in this group for you?

[Cephrir]

Nothing to read into.

oh well in that case i have no further questions

[Cephrir]

i don't think you can sheep "whoever" lol that's not a thing

[Cephrir]

are we so time crunched that pursuing something else isn't possible? doesn't seem like it to me

who *is* the scummiest in your POE, then

[Cephrir]

Dunnstral
Lady lambdadelta
Ampharos

SirCakez

SCP 999

Infinity Zero (Infinity 324 + Gamma Emerald)
Cephrir
Roden
Zyla
Galron

Unordered in tiers

I want to stick with this, and if I trust koba's townreads by extension of my own townread on them, then I think that leaves me with
VOTE: Roden
Queue roden malding after that t3 game
Hey, it's not a tunnel this time :^)

I hate that your sheep meta means you're probably just town here.

Why do you trust Koba when they still have their vote on you?

Koba (and I ) just had a really good game in a recently finished large normal and something something hot hands. But same deal with poeing it down to who is evil, and I think we're onto a similar thing here this game at this point

doesn't this actually make no sense? you're trusting koba because of hot hands, but they're voting for you? do you mean they have a hot hand at rolling town, because lol

i don't know that i would even characterize their play as poeing until like, very recently

[Cephrir]

Why are you still stuck on me

[Cephrir]

Yeah we still vote that

[Cephrir]

UNVOTE: while i decide if that's a slip

[Cephrir]

No. It's almost as dumb as why me fry me.

i still like that one tbh

[Cephrir]

VOTE: Roden

I think their post was indeed meant for the scum pt. It would be weird for them to be talking about another game while simultaneously thinking about this one by making posts right before and after; I think it is all meant for the same game.

This is good enough for me.

I have no idea what the vc is but consider this intent to vote, I guess.

[Cephrir]

Interesting your mind jumps to self-hammering rather than claiming?

-Gamma

Good point

[Cephrir]

"something something fakeclaim something eternity" --DrippingGoofball

[Cephrir]

that kind of ability is bad game design, but it's probably either a legit role or a legit fakeclaim, so here we are

[Cephrir]

i do not know scps and i don't even remotely care enough to try to deduce which one it is

[Cephrir]

that kind of ability is bad game design, but it's probably either a legit role or a legit fakeclaim, so here we are

I don't see why it has to be town, though.

It doesnt