Manatee's Pokemon Large Theme | Game Over

[mastina]

Yo, will be back here to read and give reads later but for now just wanted to claim this;

I am a 1x reflexive role-copier

; I will get a one-shot copy of the first power to target me. So,

if you think your power is pretty damn strong especially if a second player can use it, you should target me N1

.

[mastina]

Alright, am here now, so reading now.

[mastina]

@Mastina: do you know what happens if you get targeted by multiple people in the same night?

I do, the interaction's laid out in my role PM. Not sure if I should share it tho. Do you think I should?

[mastina]

(Okay that wasn't me catching up, that was me jumping ahead. But NOW catching up from page one.)

[mastina]

VOTE: wisdom
let's murder him before he gets back from V/LA

VOTE: SirCakez
Even though I'm not scumreading this opening (not townreading it either but not scumreading it, is null), SirCakez draws scum in 100% of his games it seems so we may as well save him the misery of another scumgame and vote him out.

[mastina]

I'm very happy with my assigned Pokemon.

Wood

you believe that my pokemon's one of the most appropriate for me?

I wanna be the very best like no one ever was

DUN DUN DUN

Town.

VOTE: sir cakez
first person who posts is always scum. i think thats like mafia facts

Firebringer. (I can't read Firebringer and won't pretend that I can, tho I will say that this would be 'town' alongside the above by natural inclination.)

I wanna be the very best like no one ever was

your avatar looks like a pokemon

Scum?

[mastina]

I'm just literally town blocking anyone who sings with me

Would this count as singing with you?

Here is my new cat I got her today. her name is mirri.

Spoiler: D'awwwwwww

I think this photo should be enough to give me a pass to d2.
also VOTE: sleepo

<3
Kitteh <3
Heart melted.

Pass to D2? Try pass for the whole game.

[mastina]

PS: how did I completely miss the fact mastina is in this, I definitely looked at the playerlist multiple times and definitely did not see her name there o_O
-q

If it makes you feel any better, I completely and entirely forgot that I signed up for this game until I received my role PM.

[mastina]

can we put early pressure on mastina and see their reaction?

I mean, you

can

, but it aint gonna do you much good given that I've all-but-fullclaimed already so I really don't have anything more to give ya.

[mastina]

im putting on bet now that 90% of alexandrites posts will be gamma so i don't think any of u need to be worried about thinking "who is posting this?"

I'd take that bet but I'd lose given that that's pretty much exactly the amount I'd guess would be Gamma.

I still think mastina pressure is never bad

Oh I imagine it'd work wonders if I actually ever drew scum but since mods seem to want me to always be fairly confirmable town......

They kind of fall apart on their own as scum lately. Though I always feel bad saying that.

I mean, it's

true

, so no need to feel bad saying that, but I also tend to fall apart faster as scum when pressured so Wheme's not wrong.

Also in my experience pressuring mastina means she will respond to the pressure 2 weeks later when catching up and not acknowledge you continuing to talk to her in real time in the thread. She'll get to that in 2 more weeks.

I feel called out.

...But not unjustifiably as this is

also

true.

[mastina]

seems random

Speaking of random, have my readslist!

Milobird
Save the Dragons
Firebringer
Thestatusquo

Truth Innuendos Lies
Sharing the Brain Cell

Kitty Trauma Team
Dwlee99
Ralts

The Goat
Gypyx
Alexandrite
chowchow
WhemeStar
Woolax
Wisdom
SleepyKrew

imaginality
T3
SirCakez

[mastina]

I can't decide if this a town reach or a scum reach tho.

If it helps I hated that post which immediately put imaginality in my bottom 3 reads. (Which, in spite of how I jested about the randomness of my readslist, was not in fact actually random. Well, mostly. I actually was stopping myself from posting readslists every page because I wanted to have a readslist where I manually added names as they posted rather than a readslist where I copied the names from the OP and rearranged them, but I caved in when I saw a mention of 'random' and couldn't resist. The names not posting at that point were basically random, the names having posted tho were not.)

[mastina]

What if multiple people target you mastina

Then it works in the way laid out in my role PM. Will claim that interaction if more folks think it's a good idea for me to.

Milobird
Save the Dragons
Firebringer
Thestatusquo

Wisdom
Truth Innuendos Lies
Sharing the Brain Cell

WhemeStar
Kitty Trauma Team
Dwlee99
Ralts

Alexandrite
The Goat
Gypyx
chowchow
Woolax
SleepyKrew

imaginality
T3
SirCakez

Town enough, lean town, null-positive null-to-null-negative (bottom names were almost lean scum), scum enough.

[mastina]

thinking about it, mastina, maybe you should put a reduction to the number of peeps who should visit you? Like, restrict it to half the PL or something, cuz i doubt we'd gain much worth from 4-5 of our powerful PRs taking a shot on you on the long term

I mean the problem with that is, the only way we'd have to know who should be the PR targeting me is if we had a D1 massclaim--with that obviously being something we shouldn't do, that means we have no way of coordinating it. We don't know who the best person to target me would be. And we have no way of limiting the number of players targeting me, either.

So my solution was just to leave it to the PRs in question, that if they think their role is strong especially with a second person getting a 1x copy of it, to have them target me.

[mastina]

has Mastina changed her habit of never fake-claiming though?

Nope!

Didn't mastina do like exactly this in ydrssal and get mod killed

I've made my stance on that modkill being bullshit quite clear.

Anyone posting in the thread without explicitly discussing me and std is scum claiming

Actually I'd say it's closer to the opposite.

I am aware that both you and STD are experienced enough scum players to make a SvS or SvT fight look TvT, HOWEVER:
I think you are town by your posting;
I think STD is town by his posting;
I think the fight between you and STD looks town on both ends;
I think the people who have said the fight is TvT directly are, overall, a group

more

likely to contain scum rather than less.

[mastina]

I don’t like her readslist.

I admit I'm not happy about the amount of nulls and I'm not happy how weak my townreads are.

However, I am actually

quite

confident in my scumreads.

imaginality
T3
SirCakez

I talked about imaginality already, but my thoughts on T3 were immediately that this looked like T3's scum meta rather than his town meta. I'm not positive, obviously, so I'm less sure of T3 being scum than I was, but I'm still leaning scum meta more than town meta.

As for SirCakez?

I wasn't joking when I said that I legitimately, genuinely, think that SirCakez is just scum this game. I think this is SirCakez's scum meta as literally every post of his is screaming "this is SirCakez as scum". But beyond the generic things, I can actually point you to something more specific that I found highly damning:

VOTE: wisdom
let's murder him before he gets back from V/LA

VOTE: SirCakez
Even though I'm not scumreading this opening (not townreading it either but not scumreading it, is null), SirCakez draws scum in 100% of his games it seems so we may as well save him the misery of another scumgame and vote him out.

fuck this is like Peta and I's dynamic

If SirCakez were town, the response from my post saying "he's always scum so we may as well vote him out" I would expect to be: " ", or maybe " ".
Though not as town as he could do it as scum as well, it could even have ben "lol".

It's something that, if SirCakez were town, I'd expect him to take in good humor, laugh along, and find amusing.

But this response was basically dead serious, and the dead serious treatment of the "SirCakez is always scum", rather than treating it in good humor, is what makes me think that SirCakez is scum here.

So my vote there is dead serious.

[mastina]

Yo, will be back here to read and give reads later but for now just wanted to claim this;

I am a 1x reflexive role-copier

; I will get a one-shot copy of the first power to target me. So,

if you think your power is pretty damn strong especially if a second player can use it, you should target me N1

.

hmmmmmm

This seems like a good time to mention I'm back to thinking T3's scum by meta.

Milobird
Save the Dragons
Firebringer
Thestatusquo
Wisdom

Truth Innuendos Lies
Sharing the Brain Cell

WhemeStar
Kitty Trauma Team
Dwlee99
Ralts

Alexandrite
The Goat
Gypyx
chowchow
Woolax
SleepyKrew

imaginality

T3
SirCakez

[mastina]

is "wood" really a crumb....knowing mastina it probably is but w/e

Wood

n't you like to know.

I think T3 is town now.

I don't. T3's posts just are lacking something to them. The content within is fine, it's just that the content is just...lacking something that T3 has as town.

[mastina]

I am aware that both you and STD are experienced enough scum players to make a SvS or SvT fight look TvT, HOWEVER:
I think you are town by your posting;
I think STD is town by his posting;
I think the fight between you and STD looks town on both ends;

I think the people who have said the fight is TvT directly are, overall, a group more likely to contain scum rather than less.

That conclusion seems backwards given the sentences before this.
Did anyone in this group catch your eye?

It's not backwards, because in a TvT fight the scum are more likely going to say "this fight is TvT" and do nothing about it--I realize I didn't work to defuse it, and I realize there could be and will be town who similarly didn't work to defuse it, but I still think that there would be scum who just called it TvT and did nothing about it.

I'd need to go back to that section of the game to check for the names more likely to be scum calling it TvT tho.

[mastina]

I can't read Mastina for shit on day one, just gonna call her town

I do have a flowchart for that, yaknow.

edit while reading further : yeah okay saw your answer to ralts, not a huge fan of admitting that you yourself are scummy but like i don't know how to play mafia so idk

I wasn't saying I was scummy, I was saying that I was aware that I was displaying the trait I'd expect that scum displayed but also acknowledging that I know it wouldn't be

only

scum displaying that trait.

I don't like Gypyx and Ralts jumping on mastina's comment about the people who see TSQ v STD as TvT being more likely scum than not.

I mean on the one hand I do think Gypyx's comment absolutely sucks.

On the other hand the Gypyx wagon gives off terrible vibes and feels like it fucking sucks, with scum latching onto it.

When I'm in a better mindset (hella tired right now, just reading to stay caught up, not really capable of good critical thinking), will be able to give that better thought.

Not Voting:

The Goat, mastina

MOD:

VOTE: SirCakez

I've not changed my vote once in the game; I should be on SirCakez

.

Goats entrance feels off to me so far. Complains about pages (frequent scum tactic when they're behind and need to say something) makes vague comment about the largest wagon maybe being scummy (how would you know? Maybe because buddies are talking about it in pt?)

Valid, tho I'd like to also say SleepyKrew did fairly similar so I'd be willing to yeet either of them.

[mastina]

Mastina, are you going to be generally active this game?

Active? Mostly--I'm starting a new job tomorrow, and League Worlds 2021 is going on right now, both of which will cut into my activity a little, but I

should

be able to be here fairly often and be fairly active overall. (I'm close to my limit in gaming, but while fatigue is a risk, I'm not exceeding the limit.)

Contributing? Well, not

tonight

(not in the headspace for it), but we'll have to see. Hopefully, with luck, yes, but potentially will lack if I am struggling to get a good town core.

I have a good scum core I feel, but not a good town core, so I've got better than nothing but not as much as I want to have.

[mastina]

the one time i've seen scum mastina she said the most random things i don't know if that's the case with scum!mastina but it's definitely different from my (admittedly only one) example

I mean to be fair.

The difference between you and Shea is that you have experienced recent scumastina, where I can't scum worth a damn.

Shea has experienced old scumastina, where I was at my prime and fully capable of actually playing scum.

The difference between current scumastina and the scumastina of when I was in my prime is just as night/day as the difference between my towngame and my scumgame in that prime-scumastina is nigh-indistinguishable from my towngame (not quite, obviously, even at my prime there were clear scumastina markers because different alignments wanted to do different things and used different methods but it was surface-level at least visibly very similar requiring nuance to distinguish) but current scumastina is obvious as fuck.

That having been said.

I don't think I'm actually out of my current-scumastina range, so the strong townreads on me are a bit baffling. Yeah, I'm town, so yeah, the reads are accurate, but how the fuck are people thinking that I'm not being my lazy apathetic scum self here? I've not power-towned yet (I'll get there obviously, eventually, but I'm not there

right now

), so I actually don't understand why I look town to folks. I AM town, but if *I* don't think I look town as town, if *I* don't think I'm out of my scumrange (and that says something when I'm talking about not being out of my

current

scumrange), chances are, I'm not actually out of my scumrange soooo...I don't understand the townreads there.

i think i downplayed the "randomness." she literally quoted random posts and was like "Town." "Scum?" "Town!" "scum." to them it was bizarre.

I've got some bad news for ya.

[mastina]

[quote="In post 1091, Kitty Trauma Team"I suddenly have a million questions about her claim and how it would relate to being targeted by my own ability because I'd REALLY hate to have to be the one to NAR that[/quote]Well if you were the first/only person to target me, I'd get a copy of your ability.

Granted, I haven't asked about success vs. attempt in terms of targeting me, didn't think of it until now, will do that after submitting this post. The role PM says 'targeting', which implies it doesn't need to succeed in order for me to copy it, but not every mod is as fond of strictly adhering to semantics as I am so the wording of targeting in spite of implying success isn't needed, may still require success, so need to ask about that.

I'm looking at the playerlist and honestly realizing I'd be forcing a read on like 75% of these players if I try to make a readslist
A lot of players are blending together

While I empathize with this as it's true of me, too, I still think Cakez is scum here anyway.

[mastina]

I suddenly have a million questions about her claim and how it would relate to being targeted by my own ability because I'd REALLY hate to have to be the one to NAR that

Well if you were the first/only person to target me, I'd get a copy of your ability.

Granted, I haven't asked about success vs. attempt in terms of targeting me, didn't think of it until now, will do that after submitting this post. The role PM says 'targeting', which implies it doesn't need to succeed in order for me to copy it, but not every mod is as fond of strictly adhering to semantics as I am so the wording of targeting in spite of implying success isn't needed, may still require success, so need to ask about that.

I'm looking at the playerlist and honestly realizing I'd be forcing a read on like 75% of these players if I try to make a readslist
A lot of players are blending together

While I empathize with this as it's true of me, too, I still think Cakez is scum here anyway.

Fixing my broken quote here, but also adding;
I suppose I should point out that, technically speaking, my role specifies that I gain a copy of the first

move

, but I figure that every power this game is probably a move.
(I honestly didn't read the game mechanics at all, like I said, I had completely forgotten I signed up for this game in the first place. I didn't remember until I got my role PM, so. Reading game stuff just wasn't something I had as a priority.)

[mastina]

Your good scum core is cakez crew and goat?
That's lackluster

That'd be lackluster if that was my scum core but thankfully it is not.

Milobird
Save the Dragons
Firebringer
Thestatusquo
Wisdom

Truth Innuendos Lies
Sharing the Brain Cell

WhemeStar
Kitty Trauma Team
Dwlee99
Ralts

Alexandrite
The Goat
Gypyx
chowchow
Woolax
SleepyKrew

imaginality

T3
SirCakez

Since then:
Kitty Trauma team has become more town.

Goat has become more scum;
Woolax is a little more scum;
SleepyKrew is more scum.

So my actual scum core is more like:

(locktown at least for D1)
Milobird
Save the Dragons
Firebringer
Thestatusquo
Wisdom

(almost locktown, is strongly town for D1)
Kitty Trauma Team
Sharing the Brain Cell
Truth Innuendos Lies

(various shades of ambivalence)
WhemeStar
Dwlee99
Ralts

(various shades of null)
Alexandrite
chowchow
Gypyx

(south of null by an undefined amount)
Woolax
imaginality
The Goat

(lean scum)
SleepyKrew

(lockscum)
T3
SirCakez

I realize that having only two lockscum isn't ideal and that my townreads aren't as sure as they should be, but I'm overall happy with having the scum

pool

be what it is;
{Woolax, imaginality, Goat, SleepyKrew, T3, SirCakez} is a group that I think should have at least 2 scum in it. Obviously, I'd hope for more, I'd think 2-4 in there total, but there should be a

minimum

of two scum in there.

I'm happy with a scum

pool

of six, with 2 of them being lockscum.

It's not where I'd

prefer

to be on D1, but I'm at least

content

with it.

[mastina]

Why is Firebringer lock town?

I explicitly cannot read Firebringer.
However, while that may be true, I can't exactly afford to have a player in a "policy refuse to read" tier, at least, not in this game on D1. (I

can

get away with it in

some

games, but this is not among them.)

Given that I can't afford to just not try, I need to still try, in spite of knowing I can't read Firebringer worth a damn.

And literally everything Firebringer has done and said has screamed being town to me. The tone Firebringer has had, Firebringer's content, thoughts, trolling, etc. All of it just looks town.

Is it? Fucked if I know, I can't read Firebringer.

But with it looking town and me not being able to afford not reading Firebringer in spite of knowing I can't read Firebringer, I'm going to call it as I see it.

[mastina]

Can you explain both your T3 and Imaginality reads? I think T3 seems really townie and how is Imaginality different here than in OMB?

For imaginality,

I highly doubt scums fake claim are an entire separate Pokémon and not just a new version of actual flavor

This seems to come from an informed perspective.
VOTE: Milobird

No it doesn't. I can't decide if this a town reach or a scum reach tho.

I can't decide if this a town reach or a scum reach tho.

If it helps I hated that post which immediately put imaginality in my bottom 3 reads.

imaginality just has seemed like a lot of IIoA with the content being fairly lackluster and not seeming town. I realize that this is what I more or less thought of imaginality IN OMB, which is why imaginality is in 'south of null' rather than 'scum'.

For T3, this is basically giving off MBOS-T3 vibes. T3 just seems to lack a certain spark to him that I usually see from him when he's town. His content looks town, but it also rings empty--it doesn't have a passion, a flare, a fire, to it, ringing hollow. He feels like he's going through the motions rather than believing things. He's just not showing the things I expect him to show when he's town. He's hitting basic T3 things, but he's not hitting any T3 TOWN things.

[mastina]

What does “first move” mean exactly? I was under the impression that your role says you get to copy the role of the first pr who visits you.

The former is the actual wording used (first move), the latter (first role) was how I interpreted and paraphrased it.

Which reminds me, I did ask the mod about if it's attempts or success and for me to copy a move, the move

must

succeed.

[mastina]

Yeah this worked for you in Chrono trigger real well lmao

For the record I'm not really impressed by ssbm (not scum just, not really feeling town) but I feel the need to mention I'm moving Truth/Innocent/Lies to top town OF the top town going from near-locktown-for-D1 to first-permanent-locktown.

[mastina]

Why didn't the Brain Cell wagon give you scum vibes when more of your scum reads are (or were, I'm not sure the current vote count) on that?

Because it didn't.

Vibes of a wagon are separate from reads on players.

You can have a vibe of a wagon being shitty in spite of thinking the names look good;
You can get a lack of a vibe on a wagon in spite of scumreading the names on it.

Admittedly: you can't get a good vibe on a wagon filled to the brim with scum, and the most common vibes are "good vibes with the names being town" and "bad vibes with the names being scum", but you can still get a vibe of a wagon being terrible without scumreading folks (Gypyx wagon), and you can still fail to get vibes from a wagon (the wagon on BrainCells gives me absolute static--literally

nothing

, neither good nor bad, just zilch) in spite of it containing scumreads.

The two are entirely different concepts.

[mastina]

(permanent locktown)
Truth Innuendos Lies

(locktown at least for D1)
Milobird
Save the Dragons
Firebringer
Thestatusquo
Wisdom

(almost locktown, is strongly town for D1)
Kitty Trauma Team

(various shades of ambivalence)
WhemeStar
Dwlee99
Ralts
Sharing the Brain Cell/ssbm

(various shades of null)
Alexandrite
chowchow
Gypyx

(south of null by an undefined amount)
imaginality
The Goat

(lean scum)
SleepyKrew
Woolax

(lockscum)
T3
SirCakez

[mastina]

VOTE: woolax

For the record: I support the Woolax wagon and am incredibly tempted to vote there as I think the slot is scum.

But I kinda just wanna keep my vanity vote on SirCakez right now just as a statement that, no, I'm not joking with my scumread there; yes, I am serious; yes I think he is scum; yes I want to eliminate him.

But while that's all true, Woolax is also probably just scum so isn't a bad vote. In fact is explicitly a good vote that I support.

If the Woolax wagon were to die down in fact, I WOULD switch my vote there just to make sure it DIDN'T because I don't think the Woolax wagon SHOULD die down, I legit think that the Woolax wagon is probably the best wagon we can get today.

I'm just being stubborn and feel like my vote is best used elsewhere right now.

[mastina]

I AM CAUGHT UP

For the record if this is SleepyKrew's peak in content, if the post I am quoting is the extent of the sort of thing SK can bring, if the best SK can give is 1488 - 1491 and that is the extent of SleepyKrew's content.

I maintain that SK is a decent yeet because SK is probably just scum.

Explicitly, I think all four of {SleepyKrew, Woolax, T3, SirCakez} have a very high chance of being scum.

Explicitly, I think voting any of them would be good.

I'm

currently

vanity voting SirCakez as a statement as I want it put on the record that, yes, I do in fact think he's scum that strongly.

But I'll vote any of the four names there, especially the being-wagoned-Woolax.

[mastina]

OMG MY POKEMON IS SO CUTE
ALSO I READ THREAD B4 CHOSING TO REPLACE IN AND KYOUKO IS TOWN

I'm sad to see Shea leave and hope everything's good for Shea, but I'm happy to have ya here.

I'm not that fond of ssbm's posting,

but

, it doesn't look strongly town/scum to me so I'm definitely willing to sheep you here since I think you're town and I've got a healthy scum pool.

[mastina]

Cakez being at the bottom is solely off of him reacting angrily to your vote or there's more to it?

Gut, that this is SirCakez's scum meta. It just has the vibes of being SirCakez as scum again.

[mastina]

You should put Goat in there as well

Oh yeah I would vote Goat, too. Goat's not a slot I as strongly think is scum, but I do see scum there, just not as strongly as the other four. Would vote tho so you're right, my vote pool is:
{SirCakez, T3, Woolax, SleepyKrew, The Goat}.

[mastina]

Do you think scum T3 openly flavor speculates like that?

I don't see why not.

What I don't like about this though, is she didn't try to resolve it or dig deeper into it. She just threw the read out there. And my impression of mastina's town play from OMB is she likes to be very analytical and over think things, so I feel like for her to not analyse that contradiction goes against that. Because I don't believe she didn't notice it.

I mean I wasn't paying close enough attention so the first time I noticed it was when you brought it up.

As to why after that I didn't dig into it:

I didn't feel like it.

That simple.

[mastina]

VOTE: Alexandritegamma

I do think that slot has a decent chance of being scum so add them as #6 on my list of will-vote.

[mastina]

Woolax (12): Truth Innuendos Lies, Save The Dragons, ssbm_kyouko, Wisdom, Firebringer, chowchow, Imaginality, SirCakez, SleepyKrew, Gamma, wheme, T3
Wheme was hammer, T3 is overkill if I missed a moved vote somewhere

Let's add another for good measure.
VOTE: Woolax
L+2.

[mastina]

Hi, so, like, I'm not gonna be able to be here for a bit. I've got a lot to do between work stuff and other obligations so I can't be able to be here (especially not when I'm as tired as I am right now). If I CAN, I'll be around sooner, but if I can't, you can expect me on either Wednesday or Thursday night to catch up and so on and so forth.

However, first off.

Callout:

What the fuck, guys.

Unless the mods failed to notify me (I did ask them about this to be sure), literally nobody targeted me? Like. I literally TOLD y'all that I can duplicate a power if targeted by it. But as far as I can tell, literally nobody did.

Y'all are Dragon Tails / Circle Throwers / Whirlwinds in reverse. (I hope the intended meaning comes through.) I wasn't lying about my role so I do mean it; you SHOULD be targeting me if you have a strong role. (That said, I suppose it's possible Gypyx targeted me and his role prevents me from using my role but oh well, only the mods know.)

As for what now.

my vote pool is:
{SirCakez, T3, SleepyKrew, The Goat}.

Can't read per the above, so can't get good D2 reads, but I'll still do this;
VOTE: SirCakez
May as well vote in the pool I mentioned before and reiterate; I'll vote anyone from there. You'll see more from me at latest, on Thursday, but this should suffice for now.

[mastina]

Yo, at work, and as a reminder, I won't be able to be here with content until Wednesday night at the EARLIEST (far more likely is Thursday), but I asked the mod about my lack of result, and the mod confirmed that there was a processing error; I do in fact have a move, a quite powerful one at that.

I'll probably be holstering until midgame tho, because I don't know who to use my role on, yet.

[mastina]

also i successfully evolved and now im a rolestopper poggies

Huh that's fascinating considering that the role I received last night is in fact a rolestopper.

VOTE: Valkyrie Dimension
(saw the claimed inno on SirCakez from Firebringer, so onto this)

Really damn sad kyouko got killed because I wanted to genuinely work with her now that THAT ONE FUCKING GAME is over!

Also I should mention I've had the Gamma hydra as a secret yeet I'd support even though I never listed the slot in my yeetpool, so consider Gamma to be in for stuff like this.

My pool rn is (imaginality, KTT, Milobird, Goat-slot)

Mine is {imaginality, Goat-Slot, SleepyKrew-slot, T3, Gamma Emerald}, I think.

I do admit I'm being pretty lazy with this game tho. I'm not really efforting here yet.
Truth Innuendos Lies
Firebringer
SirCakez

Milobird
Thestatusquo/DKKoba
Wisdom

Kitty Trauma Team

WhemeStar
Dwlee99
Ralts

Save the Dragons
chowchow

imaginality
The Goat/Titus
T3
SleepyKrew/Valkyrie Dimension
Alexandrite/Gamma Emerald

Actually want to do this.
VOTE: Gamma Emerald

[mastina]

Memestar is such a lazy nickname pooky I’ve heard that more than I’ve heard wizard of oz jokes when I tell people I’m from Kansas

You could say you're a...

...ThemeStar.



Truth Innuendos Lies
Firebringer
SirCakez

Milobird
Thestatusquo/DKKoba
Wisdom

Kitty Trauma Team

WhemeStar
Dwlee99
Ralts/PookytheMagicalBear
Save the Dragons
chowchow

imaginality
The Goat/Titus
T3
SleepyKrew/Valkyrie Dimension
Alexandrite/Gamma Emerald

(Same list as last time just with me remembering to add in Pooky having replaced Ralts + removing the gap between my nulls which wasn't really meant to be there.)

[mastina]

You think T3 openly flavor speculates with his buddy inthread instead of in the scum pt?

This wasn't at me, but I would explicitly expect that post from T3 regardless of his alignment.

While I'd argue T3

not

making it would, indeed, have been a scumclaim as it'd be in the scum PT, T3 is smart enough to make a post that there's a duplicate version in the scum PT, out in the open, to avoid it damning him. (In other words, absence of the post would be scum-indicative but the presence of the post is null because T3 would make it as scum to avoid the scumclaim from having

not

made it.)

Also do you see T3 defending his buddy so much?

Explicitly so, yes.

With a dead Woolax, pointing towards Gypyx does not look like a scum thing to do

I'm gonna be blunt.

I'm not really interested in giving any slots any towncred for pushing one or both of the dead scum, here.

Just on vibes, it wouldn't surprise me if the entire scumteam is basically distancing/bussing each other.
Granted, not a surefire thing. They

could

be among the slots not distancing/bussing each other, or it could even be a mixture of both, with some scum bussing and some scum defending each other.

But I'm more interested in townreading folks for being town, more than townreading folks for having pointed out flipped scum were sus.
Now, if the

way

they pushed the scum to me looks incredibly likely to be town (for instance, Wisdom, you are in that list), sure, I'll townread them, but the

presence

of saying the flipped scum are sus, even (or sometimes,

especially

) if the logic is sound, isn't going to earn them a townread from me.

Granted, this is something that can change with future looks into them, deep dives, extra flips, etc. There's a big difference between a player pushing one scum who went to L+3 and a second scum who was vigged (remember, scum had no way of knowing Gypyx would die), and a player pushing like three or four flipped scum. The former can and likely does contain scum distancing/bussing; the latter is actually more likely to just indicate the slot is town.

New poe: {Pooky, Titus, Dwlee, KTT}

That said, the only name I'm not really interested in sheeping you on here is Kitty Trauma Team. Would vote the other three.

[mastina]

Quick announcement: we initially forgot to give one player a message they should have gotten at daystart. It has been corrected now, sorry for the confusion.
VC coming up soon.

Unless the mods failed to notify me (I did ask them about this to be sure), literally nobody targeted me?

I asked the mod about my lack of result, and the mod confirmed that there was a processing error; I do in fact have a move, a quite powerful one at that.

NGL I think that the mod announcing this error is actually itself a worse mod error than the initial fuckup because by announcing this, it basically conftowns me.

(I'll take the conftown status from it tho.)

Not finished reading up but I would like to confirm if Kitty got my fruit.

(ngl this kinda just looks like scum-Titus to me)

[mastina]

Sorry, work got in the way yesterday.

Big mood. (Working four days in a row is actually making me heavily consider not signing up to play in any mafia games unless my shift changes because while I have

some

time on Sundays, I still am dead tired and playing catchup everywhere for all four days since I need to go to bed before 4 am every day and get home from work at circa 9 pm meaning I realistically only have ~5 hours of free time those days.

I'll make it work

somehow

, just haven't figured out how yet.)

Imagine, I have to reach conditions to evolve. I can't just pick to.

I will likely evolve tonight. I have to if the conditions are met.

This looks like a scum fakeclaim to me.

[mastina]

Maybe their fakeclaim is a protective

I'm not sure how explicit I should be but if Dwlee is softclaiming what I think they are softclaiming then they might just actually be conftown from it.

[mastina]

cuz im bad
bad to the bone

You heard it from Pooky, folks; Pooky's a Team Rocket Cubone.






(

Does

Team Rocket get a Cubone or Marowack at any point? I remember one being in the series but I don't remember what happened.)

[mastina]

Yeah, I don’t understand why Mastina keeps voting him.

Because SirCakez never rands town, except somehow apparently he did this game, but I didn't know that until today.

[mastina]

YO
SHUT UP AND MAREEP ME
VOTE: T3

Btw kinda want to just locktown Wheme for this.

Does this meta apply to all days? In Owner's Market Blitz mastina only mentioned it as a D1 meta.

I was under the impression it was a D1 tell that Pooky has never bussed a scumbuddy on D1 before.

Past D1, I would assume he

has

, although I'd expect it to still be a rarity, but I've no way of really knowing for sure.

Dwlee99*
Truth Innuendos Lies
Firebringer
SirCakez
WhemeStar

Wisdom
Milobird
Thestatusquo/DKKoba

Kitty Trauma Team

chowchow
Save the Dragons
Ralts/PookytheMagicalBear

imaginality
The Goat/Titus
T3
SleepyKrew/Valkyrie Dimension
Alexandrite/Gamma Emerald

*Conditional on me being right on what I think Dwlee is softclaiming

(did a slight reordering of the nulls to be more accurate since chowchow is the towniest and Pooky the least townie of them, and also have a couple promoted reads, but mostly the same here)

[mastina]

Wait koba
You said rolestopper right

Is it gated or how does it work

Is it gated or how does it work

Ungated

I don't believe you

So you should tell me if this is a gambit or if you're real claiming

Dwlee - you may have been role blocked. Just reread public infi and evolving is blockable

No that's not why I think you're BSing

Dwlee if you're also a protective i suggest you stop broadcasting it to everyone

You expect so little of me

Mmmm

Basically, I also believe this, rather strongly so in fact.
I'd prefer if Dwlee confirmed my suspicion but if I am right I do legit think Dwlee is like conftown levels of town here.

[mastina]

The reason I reacted like that is because Koba's role sounds stronger than mine for a bunch of reasons but I townread them so it's not something I need to figure out rn

Basically what I am at, now.

I think that Dwlee is town here if they are what I think they are softclaiming. Like, strongest townread, town, here.

DKKoba's claim would be suspicious to them if I am correct on virtue of the claim itself...

...But like Dwlee, I am townreading DKKoba anyway in spite of the sketchy claim from Koba so I think it doesn't matter. DKKoba's probably town anyway and Dwlee's also probably town anyway, in spite of Dwlee's (softclaimed) counterclaim to DKKoba.

Dwlee99*
Truth Innuendos Lies
Thestatusquo/DKKoba
Firebringer
SirCakez
WhemeStar

Wisdom
Milobird

Kitty Trauma Team

chowchow
Save the Dragons
Ralts/PookytheMagicalBear

imaginality
The Goat/Titus
T3
SleepyKrew/Valkyrie Dimension
Alexandrite/Gamma Emerald

*Conditional on me being right on what I think Dwlee is softclaiming

[mastina]

VOTE: Valkyrie Dimension

Very good vote btw.

SleepyKrew was a slot that already was pretty damn sketchy, and the replacement has only continued to do increasingly scum-indicative things imo.

So like.

VOTE: Valkyrie Dimension

Actually probably best vote now.

[mastina]

mastina talk me through why KTT and Dwlee are that high

At the time, Dwlee wasn't high; Dwlee was null.
Now, I'm like 99.99% sure that Dwlee is town off of role and play of that role tho.

As for Kitty Trauma Team: I genuinely just don't get the scumreads there at all. Everything I've seen has made me think that this is kuribo as town and even Mala I'd say more town than scum here. Plus I think their role is likely to be town.

I

get

that reasons for them being scum have been

posted

.
I just genuinely don't "get" the scumread there, and genuinely they just look town to me.

Not strongly so, not locktown, and in fact in the grand scheme of things they're a weak townread comparatively speaking; they're the townread I am most likely to be wrong about, and thus, I'm not going to die on the "KTT is town" hill, in that I'm not really interested in defending them, here.

But while I'm not really interested in defending them because they're my weakest townread and the townread most likely to be wrong, I've zero interest in wagoning them because they still

are

a townread to me, even if a comparatively weak one.

[mastina]

People are not expected to flavor spec

Most people aren't.

T3 is.

A lack of flavor spec

would

be scum-indicative for T3.

But presence of it is nai because T3 is aware that a lack of flavor spec would be scum-indicative so he does it as scum to mimic him doing it as town.

[mastina]

Why cant you be scum with the same role and the same mod error

The method by which it was handled + the nature of the role being a role that is basically required to be town (because scum can basically get a second copy of their role if I was scum and scum targeted me) + the nature of my posts in the thread about it + lack of scum PT involvement + scum actions are usually coordinated and confirmed in a scum PT and thus mod errors in action resolutions are usually on town slots.

Explain? Evolution conditions are confirmed to be a thing from Kyouko's flip

Sure, but I think that Titus's claim specifically looks like a scum fakeclaim made after the revelation of the town mechanic rather than a true realclaim.

Plus I think their role is likely to be town.

Scum. have. fakeclaims.

Sure, but I think that their claim is real and from town and not fake and is a role inherently more likely to be town than scum and is a genuine real thing.

[mastina]

Yo, don't have the mental strength to be around right now, will respond to things when I'm able to, but for now, just gonna drop this;
VOTE: T3
I see T3 votes; I see a wagon there; I see vindication for my D1 scumread there, so I vote.

[mastina]

(If T3 is too close to elimination y'all can have someone unvote but T3 is a slot I've wanted to vote/wagon since D1 so...not a wagon I've any interest in missing out on.)

[mastina]

Awww I was hoping Koba could predict the scum kill.
(Be around later.)

[mastina]

Oh forgot to place a vote.
VOTE: Critter
I'm still not quite here

yet

, but I'll be around very very soon.

[mastina]

Mastina vote Dwelee, thanks.

How about we

don't

vote the player who I think is so conftown that if someone claimed a guilty on them I'd vote the person claiming the guilty?

Dwlee's my strongest townread.

[mastina]

(Again still not reading reading, will be around to properly read/respond/etc. later tonight. Just busy elsewhere now.)

[mastina]

Ig unless mastina didn't use it on firebringer but I figure she would

I didn't use my action on Firebringer because I thought DKKoba would stop the nightkill with their ungated rolestop claim + being more in the game than I am + being able to predict the kill better than I could.

[mastina]

They’re scum.

They're not.

Dwlee is a rolestopper of some form who targeted me N1 because I got a rolestopper N1 and Dwlee basically counterclaimed DKKoba yesterday and I was able to put 2 + 2 together and realize that Dwlee targeted me N1 as a rolestopper and was suspicious of DKKoba claiming the

exact

role, of rolestopper.

However, in spite of me knowing Dwlee was a rolestopper and DKKoba claimed rolestopper, I came to the same conclusion Dwlee did: that Dwlee is town and a real rolestopper but gated by being pre-evolution, and DKKoba is town and a full rolestopper by having evolved.

[mastina]

also i successfully evolved and now im a rolestopper poggies

Huh that's fascinating considering that the role I received last night is in fact a rolestopper.

Koba you said you can commute or something right? This game is gonna be fun

no i evolved lol

I said i could commute so no one would target me so i could evolve. No comment on what my original ability is because I can cc someone still

Wait koba
You said rolestopper right

Is it gated or how does it work

Is it gated or how does it work

Ungated

Is it gated or how does it work

Ungated

I don't believe you

So you should tell me if this is a gambit or if you're real claiming

Dwlee - you may have been role blocked. Just reread public infi and evolving is blockable

No that's not why I think you're BSing

Dwlee if you're also a protective i suggest you stop broadcasting it to everyone

You expect so little of me

Yo, at work, and as a reminder, I won't be able to be here with content until Wednesday night at the EARLIEST (far more likely is Thursday), but I asked the mod about my lack of result, and the mod confirmed that there was a processing error; I do in fact have a move, a quite powerful one at that.

I'll probably be holstering until midgame tho, because I don't know who to use my role on, yet.

And as a reminder, that was in fact:

also i successfully evolved and now im a rolestopper poggies

Huh that's fascinating considering that the role I received last night is in fact a rolestopper.

So to be explicit.

I started the day (D2) with no PM from the mod at all.

I asked the mod about it.

I was told there was a processing error and that I should have received that I was now in possession of a rolestop power. Not something similar to a rolestop power. Literally a rolestopper. As in, full on, "stop a player from being visited", rolestopper.

So I was confused that DKKoba claimed an evolution into the role that I knew targeted me N1, and Dwlee all-but-explicitly claimed that they were the rolestopper who targeted me N1. Which I said here;

Wait koba
You said rolestopper right

Is it gated or how does it work

Is it gated or how does it work

Ungated

I don't believe you

So you should tell me if this is a gambit or if you're real claiming

Dwlee - you may have been role blocked. Just reread public infi and evolving is blockable

No that's not why I think you're BSing

Dwlee if you're also a protective i suggest you stop broadcasting it to everyone

You expect so little of me

Mmmm

Basically, I also believe this, rather strongly so in fact.
I'd prefer if Dwlee confirmed my suspicion but if I am right I do legit think Dwlee is like conftown levels of town here.

[mastina]

Mastina, rolestoppers can be scum. Especially in a game with a vig.

Not one who can only block scum abilities

Uh that? I didn't get that.

Nothing in my role mentioned an inability to block scum abilities. It just says I stop the player from being visited, it doesn't say "from being visited by scum".

[mastina]

Mastina, rolestoppers can be scum. Especially in a game with a vig.

Not one who can only block scum abilities

Uh that? I didn't get that.

Nothing in my role mentioned an inability to block scum abilities. It just says I stop the player from being visited, it doesn't say "from being visited by scum".

(Am asking the mod a few questions about this tho. My role said it copies the move and I assumed that meant all the details of the move but I need to confirm it with the mod, obv.)

[mastina]

(also still not fully here in spite of the illusion that I am--trust me when I AM fully here it'll be quite obvious by the quote walls which're quoting old content
Which is coming, just...not at this very moment, still busy elsewhere.)

[mastina]

VOTE: Dwlee99
This is gonna be fucking messy but here goes. I’m the rolestopper who mastina got the shot from. That’s why I’ve been certain she’s town. I pretty much knew from the moment she claimed I wanted to target her N1.

...Oh.

Now for the million-dollar question: why wasn’t I on FB? I THOUGHT KOBA WAS ACTUALLY GOING TO TARGET SMARTLY SO I TARGETED MILOBIRD!

Ditto, this would also be why I did not use my rolestop on someone like Firebringer; I thought DKKoba would be able to stop the nightkill.

VOTE: Dwlee99

[mastina]

VOTE: Dwlee99

(For the record: I'm not

sure

Dwlee is scum here, obviously, but between Gamma claiming that the rolestop I got N1 is his, not Dwlee's, Dwlee claiming a rolestop variant that I did not get, and the guilty claim, I genuinely believe that just on policy, we need to eliminate Dwlee. Dwlee's not lockscum but for Dwlee to be town requires a series of events that are incredibly unfortunate and unlikely. Two rolestoppers both in the game with different modifiers, targeting me, on top of a third player evolving into a rolestopper, on top of whatever would cause a wrong result from the investigation on Dwlee. It's not impossible and if Dwlee flips town we'll know that it did in fact happen in spite of how incredibly improbable they were, but by following Occam's Razor, the simplest explanation is Dwlee as scum and anything other than Dwlee-scum is less simple.)

[mastina]

Well please wait to hear from Milobird before any action.

On that note I want DKKoba posting today, too; we shouldn't end the day before they've chimed in here.

[mastina]

HHAHA the leading scum must have targeted me ...
SO
I SELF TARGETED N2
my full ability:
nonconsecutive delayed rolestopper
essentially:
anyone who visits my target(i can self target) will be roleblocked the next night!
i self targeted night 2 - expecting to die or at least be visited by a scum

Uh.

I kinda doubt you stopped the scum kill, DKKoba, considering I rolestopped you N2.
If your rolestop on yourself is delayed until N3, I'm

pretty

sure that it should've failed due to me rolestopping you N2 and you self-targeting.

I'd trust whoever Gamma rolestopped to be conftown, no offense.

[mastina]

well we had no deaths last night so im assuming that was because of my rolestop unless we got a roleblocker claim - I was already BP so i doubt it, and my slot seems to be 1 designated protective.

Not a role

blocker

, but I role

stopped

you N2.
Meaning all other actions on you N2 aside from mine should've failed--including your delayed self-rolestop.

I'm not sure if this is something I can get a response of out of the mods but I'll try asking about it to see if I can get an answer there on that interaction tho.

[mastina]

Btw lemme know if this is wrong.

Living players:
Milobird (notscience + Bell)
Save The Dragons
Wisdom
imaginality
Gamma Emerald Alexandrite (MegAzumarill+Gamma Emerald+Yume)
WhemeStar
Titus The Goat
chowchow (Anonymous Hydra)
mastina
Truth Innuendos Lies (Nancy Drew + Marashu + Auro)
Malakittens Kitty Trauma Team (kuribo + Malakittens)
PookyTheMagicalBear Ralts
SirCakez
DkKoba Thestatusquo
MathBlade

Milobird has no clear but this is Bell's townplay and also notty looks insanely town af anyway.
Gamma Emerald's the rolestopper who counterclaimed Dwlee and is thus basically conftown here.
Truth Innouendos Lies is both obvtown from play and also the source of the cop guilty on Dwlee and thus IS conftown here.
SirCakez has a clear*, and is thus incredibly unlikely to be scum.
MathBlade has a clear*, and on top of that is a role incredibly likely to be town.
Titus is a friendly neighbor and is thus conftown.

*godfather's not flipped but confirmed to exist so all clears are not 100%

So removing that, it leaves:
Save The Dragons
Wisdom
imaginality
WhemeStar
chowchow (Anonymous Hydra)
Malakittens / Kitty Trauma Team (kuribo + Malakittens)
PookyTheMagicalBear / Ralts
DkKoba Thestatusquo (has roleclaimed but this roleclaim doesn't affect my read)

From there, I still have a townread on STD and Wisdom (I realize this isn't universal) and think that Malakittens and DKKoba are still less likely to be scum from play alone.

Which leaves my personal initial "PoE" (it's not really one since some of the names here aren't so much scumreads as much as "I personally cannot get a read there RIGHT NOW even if others can and think the slot is town") as:
{imaginality, WhemeStar, chowchow, Pooky} for 2 scum remaining.

[mastina]

I jailed pooky.

Pooky was not visited by anyone either

You mean you also watch who you're jailkeeping?

Yes

So uhhh...unless Gamma's rolestopped target was the scum's nightkill...

...Isn't that like, evidence Pooky's just scum here?

VOTE: Pookythemagicalbear

[mastina]

Mmmmmk I see a semi-guilty so I figure we should claim
Pooky and I are the vig - we have a hood and we had a joint shot to kill someone that we used to kill Gypyx. Since Pooky repped in night 1 I gave him a list of like five different people I thought we could vig and he chose Gypyx. If Pooky is scum he definitely could have chosen someone else who was town in the pool I gave him.

UNVOTE: Pookythemagicalbear

Well that's enough to take Pooky from scum candidate to conftown to me (as well as confirm SirCakez is innocent aside from the Firebringer result).

Pooky never busses on D1 and I'd like to think that a N1 vig shot counts as an extension of D1 in bussing, so like. Shooting scum IS indeed a hard-clear to me when it comes to Pooky.

So I guess scum just shot at TIL.

[mastina]

But someone said Pooky doesnt bus so ugh

Well, Pooky's never bussed on D1 ever.

I imagine bussing after D1 has happened albeit probably more of a rarity, and

technically

, a N1 vig shot isn't D1 so Pooky COULD be scum without breaking the sacred no-bus-D1 rule, but given it's literally a vig shot on a fairly strong scum PR, I'd certainly think that it's not Pooky as scum and that N1 counted as an extension of D1 in that it's still before D2 info comes to light so like. Not 100% hard-cleared but I'd still go like 99%.

So that brings me, personally, to:

Milobird has no clear but this is Bell's townplay and also notty looks insanely town af anyway.
Gamma Emerald's the rolestopper who counterclaimed Dwlee and is thus basically conftown here.
Truth Innouendos Lies is both obvtown from play and also the source of the cop guilty on Dwlee and thus IS conftown here. Not to mention was likely the scum nightkill last night.
SirCakez has a clear*, and is thus incredibly unlikely to be scum, plus is half of the vig.
MathBlade has a clear*, and on top of that is a role incredibly likely to be town.
Titus is a friendly neighbor and is thus conftown.
Pooky is half of the vig and from a list of five from which Pooky could select anyone, Pooky selected a strong scum PR to kill and is thus, 99% likely town.

*godfather's not flipped but confirmed to exist so all clears are not 100%

So removing those, it leaves:
Save The Dragons
Wisdom
imaginality
WhemeStar (has roleclaimed but roleclaim isn't clearing tho it DOES influence my read)
chowchow (Anonymous Hydra)
Malakittens / Kitty Trauma Team (kuribo + Malakittens) (has roleclaimed but roleclaim doesn't affect my read)
DkKoba Thestatusquo (has roleclaimed but this roleclaim doesn't affect my read)

From there, I still have a townread on STD and Wisdom (I realize this isn't universal) and think that Malakittens and DKKoba are still less likely to be scum from play alone.
I also think that WhemeStar's claim is incredibly likely to be a town one.

Which leaves my personal initial "PoE" (it's not really one since some of the names here aren't so much scumreads as much as "I personally cannot get a read there RIGHT NOW even if others can and think the slot is town") as:
{imaginality, chowchow} for 2 scum remaining.

But I suppose to be objective, the objective pool should be,
{

WhemeStar

,

DKKoba

,

STD, Wisdom

, Malakittens, imaginality, chowchow}
Where underlined are incredibly unlikely to be scum by role/play, and italicized are personal townreads of mine of significant strength.

If it's a given that {Malakittens, imaginality, chowchow} contains two scum, I, personally, would think the town of the three would be Malakittens so I suppose I should do this:
VOTE: imaginality

(Again tho feel free to correct me if I am wrong on things here.)

[mastina]

mastina was scum who was unknowingly roleblocked by me

I thought of that but I think mastina's stop would resolve first since it directly affects your action

Depends on the wording used in the delayed PM, per the mod.

If DKKoba's role said, "choose a player, on the next night...", I wouldn't prevent the action.

If DKKoba's role said, "target a player, and on the next night...", I would prevent the action.

[mastina]

mastina, why'd you target dkkoba and only out that fact this day phase? Beforehand it seemed like you were good to hold your shot n2, why'd you use it?

I used it because I thought that DKKoba was going to either be the nightkill that night OR be roleblocked by the scum that night, and both were things my rolestop could prevent from happening and guarantee that DKKoba's rolestop action that night went through.

As for why I didn't claim it until today:

Well please wait to hear from Milobird before any action.

On that note I want DKKoba posting today, too; we shouldn't end the day before they've chimed in here.

There was a good reason for this. As much as I think DKKoba is town, I didn't want DKKoba to, if they are scum, be able to bullshit a fakeclaim, e.g. claiming that they were roleblocked last night. I wanted DKKoba to have posted so that they were locked into not being caught in a lie.

Now for the million-dollar question: why wasn’t I on FB? I THOUGHT KOBA WAS ACTUALLY GOING TO TARGET SMARTLY SO I TARGETED MILOBIRD!

Ditto, this would also be why I did not use my rolestop on someone like Firebringer; I thought DKKoba would be able to stop the nightkill.

Which I also hinted at here.

Ig unless mastina didn't use it on firebringer but I figure she would

I didn't use my action on Firebringer because I thought DKKoba would stop the nightkill with their ungated rolestop claim + being more in the game than I am + being able to predict the kill better than I could.

And here. I used my wording carefully, "I didn't use my action on Firebringer", because I used it on DKKoba to guarantee DKKoba could stop the kill with their ungated rolestop claim.

[mastina]

If Pooky literally never buses his buddies D1 doesn't that cross into a trust tell? Like instead of "I'm always town if I say I am" it's "I'm always town if I say 'vote X' and X flips scum D1"?

It's not a trust tell because it requires a lot of things that Pooky could break at any time, it's just disadvantageous for Pooky to do so. Pooky never bussing on D1 is true for the like 20 years Pooky's been playing, but any scum game

could

be the first, it's just that so far every game Pooky's attacked scum on D1 Pooky was town and every time Pooky has been scum, bussing scum on D1 would've been a very bad idea and borderline gamethrowing.

Just because a play has never been done before as scum does not mean the user is deliberately avoiding doing it as scum.

Like, this is a big thing for me, too. I never fakeclaim as scum, but it's not a trust tell from me because while I never have fakeclaimed as scum, I always

could

, it's just that it just so happens that in that particular game, fakeclaiming always is the wrong play where I would be at a disadvantage so telling the truth is me playing to my wincon.

If Pooky believes that bussing on D1 would be playing against his wincon as scum and that the optimal move to play to his wincon is to not bus, then in spite of his history of never bussing on D1, he will still not bus because in that game, it's the wrong call.

I can sum it up as basically this:
You are always to play towards the wincon in your

current

game.
If Pooky believes that a bus on D1 as scum is playing against wincon, then it doesn't matter that Pooky's never bussed on D1 before as scum, he's still playing to his perceived wincon in the current game. It happens to benefit his towngame, but just because it benefits his towngame does not mean it is sabotaging his scumgame.

That's the difference between a meta tell and a trust tell.

A meta tell is a tell that you could in theory break at any point, but you have reasons to have not done so. (Those reasons could be you genuinely don't know about the tell, but could just be that as town/scum you have different playstyles because you need to accomplish different things.)

A trust tell is a tell that you deliberately an actively enforce even when it is detrimental to your wincon to have done so, and the only reason to use it is to continue to abuse it in future games.

[mastina]

VOTE: imaginality
Really dislike that claim

Yup, especially the target.

Why Milobird, the slot which by meta is one of the towniest in the game? Did imaginality expect that a super duper secrit deepscum that was way out of their scum range would make the nightkill and risk being caught when they are super duper secrit deepscum that is way out of their established scum range?

It's literally one of the worst possible targets.

[mastina]

It’s amusing that Math didn’t believe my role because too many cops and then Imaginality claimed another one. So we have now: Fire, me, Math and apparently now Imaginality?

That on top of my role which could be any of the OP roles, albeit a oneshot version of them. I ended up with the rolestop, but I could've gotten any of {Your role, Firebringer's role, imaginality's role, DKKoba's role, WhemeStar's role}. Only one of them but still, I'm basically a +1 to either an OP investigative or a strong protective in this game.

And then we have the fact that WhemeStar is claiming a combined jailkeeper-watcher and that Gamma Emerald is a nearly unlimited rolestopper (with the slight gate of not the same target twice in a row).

While, per you, the scum have a godfather, what on earth in the scum's power is designed to counter 3.5 (+1 possible 1x) town investigatives and 3 (+1 possible 1x) town killstopper roles?

We eliminated a scum roleblocker (I am an idiot I forgot about this when deciding to rolestop DKKoba) who had a votesteal D1, but like...a roleblocker could only deal with one of those and even then not that effectively.

We eliminated a scum universal backup N1 to the vig, but like...that doesn't give scum extra counters to the town power.

We eliminated a scum rolestopper D3 who could help limit things and said rolestopper could take down a town role with them, but like...that's still not much in the way of counters to the town power.

The scum's tools don't give them much in the way of answers to the amount of strength the town power roles have.

[mastina]

then i feel confident mastina will jump on Imaginality too

I almost didn't because I actually missed imaginality's original claim as I tunnelvisioned in on the "isn't this a trust tell?" part of the post and actually deleted the claim from said post because I was too focused on making the point of it not being a trust tell.

...But then between you and DKKoba quoting it I spotted it and yeah it's probably a fakeclaim.

But that said I was voting imaginality

before

the claim

anyway

for a separate reason (imaginality being in the POE). So I technically didn't jump on due to the claim.

I am staying on there due to it tho!

[mastina]

see i see a world where a defeated scum!chowchow is just memeing at this point

I have a perhaps even better theory:
imaginality is the scum godfather with a botched fakeclaim and chowchow is the non-godfather scum, who knows it's all over if imaginality goes down but is hoping/praying that if imaginality doesn't die today that imaginality can talk the town out of eliminating the final scum tomorrow.

[mastina]

And believe me Imaginality, we did not go from Pooky to you because of that. It was your bad fakeclaim. You literally claimed scum there.

I mean it was the same post regardless.

Shit push on Pooky, bad fakeclaim, both came from the same post anyway.

[mastina]

◓ At night, you may dive after another player, and will be informed the type of move your target used (Protective, Killing, Investigative, Misc.)
◓ The night after you evolve you may use this move to target 3 different players at once
◓ You may not use this move two nights consecutively

So Wisdom was literally, with only one scum left, a fullblown cop.

And y'all eliminated him before he could post. (Or for that matter, before *I* could post.)

Meaning that any innocent or guilty he had, was lost, because SOME people were, hmm, is there a nonoffensive way to say "feeling themselves too much"?

Because that's what you were doing.

So what have we learned, here, today?

I mean, *I* didn't learn anything because *I* thought Wisdom was town and *I* wasn't a part of the wagon and *I* didn't even get to post because of you.

But what did those who voted Wisdom learn?

Maybe...oh, I dunno.

Don't fucking rush the damn day and throw away a lead in a game that

would

have been won yesterday if we had done what *I* wanted:
VOTE: chowchow

[mastina]

VOTE: mastina
My spicy take is mastinas ability is supposed to combo with hoothoot to spam use all the abilities they captures

Your spicy take requires me to have bussed basically my entire team. And for them to have interacted with me in a way that basically everyone says is clearing of me. And for me to actually be scum when I'm out of my scumrange by a considerable margin.

And you can fuck off with that take because I am FURIOUS at the Wisdom elimination because *I* townread Wisdom for the WHOLE FUCKING GAME and you fucks didn't listen to me.

[mastina]

theory: KTT/mala slot were trying to get themselves limmed over woolax to preserve the strongman as they are the weakest scum pr - considering all the flipped scum PRs we have so far.

Alternatively,

see i see a world where a defeated scum!chowchow is just memeing at this point

I have a perhaps even better theory:
imaginality is the scum godfather with a botched fakeclaim and

chowchow is the non-godfather scum, who knows it's all over if imaginality goes down

but is hoping/praying that if imaginality doesn't die today that imaginality can talk the town out of eliminating the final scum tomorrow.

Also KTT/Mala are conftown, sooooooo.

[mastina]

Did y'all forget that on the day we were set to eliminate imaginality, chowchow was basically deliberately trying to get themselves killed instead of imaginality?

Because I sure as fuck didn't.

And I sure as hell would've reminded you of this yesterday if I had gotten a chance to post.

[mastina]

VOTE: imaginality
Really dislike that claim

Its safe as hell
He doesn't even confirm anyone as he claims targeting Milo who was rolestopped
And it doesn't make any sense not to use it on n3
Or to claim it with a shot still available

I dont feel like giving him any breathing room
He feels obviously scum with that claim

(partially quoting this to rub it in your faces, THIS IS THE SLOT WHO BASICALLY GOT US IMAGINALITY and you rewarded him with a fucking elimination, but also, this is part of me illustrating why chowchow's scum here)

Its safe as hell
He doesn't even confirm anyone as he claims targeting Milo who was rolestopped
And it doesn't make any sense not to use it on n3
Or to claim it with a shot still available

Yes it’s extremely suspicious that he wouldn’t use it last night. This reminds me of SS’ fakeclaim in OMB. I can probably find it but both Gamma and Mastina can probably comment on that as well.

VOTE: Imaginality

VOTE: Imaginality

VOTE: Imaginality

VOTE: imaginality

After this, we get these from chowchow:

VOTE: chowvote

chowchow?
why is chowchow murdering chow?
-chow

Chow they are sleeping...
~chowchow

chowchowchowchowchow

(and so on and so forth)

You might wonder why that's important.

see i see a world where a defeated scum!chowchow is just memeing at this point

VOTE: chow

Which is why I said it and will say it one more time:

see i see a world where a defeated scum!chowchow is just memeing at this point

I have a perhaps even better theory:
imaginality is the scum godfather with a botched fakeclaim and chowchow is the non-godfather scum, who knows it's all over if imaginality goes down but is hoping/praying that if imaginality doesn't die today that imaginality can talk the town out of eliminating the final scum tomorrow.

[mastina]

Milobird has no clear but this is Bell's townplay and also notty looks insanely town af anyway.
SirCakez has a clear, and is thus incredibly unlikely to be scum, plus is half of the vig.
MathBlade has a clear, and on top of that is a role incredibly likely to be town.
Titus is a friendly neighbor and is thus conftown.
Pooky is half of the vig and from a list of five from which Pooky could select anyone, Pooky selected a strong scum PR to kill and is thus, 99% likely town.
Malakittens has a clear (on top of being town)

So removing those, it leaves:
Save The Dragons
WhemeStar (has roleclaimed but roleclaim isn't clearing tho it DOES influence my read)
chowchow (Anonymous Hydra)
DkKoba Thestatusquo (has roleclaimed but this roleclaim doesn't affect my read)

From there, I still have a townread on STD (I realize this isn't universal) and think that DKKoba is still less likely to be scum from play alone.
I also think that WhemeStar's claim is incredibly likely to be a town one.

Which leaves my personal initial "PoE" (it's not really one since some of the names here aren't so much scumreads as much as "I personally cannot get a read there RIGHT NOW even if others can and think the slot is town") as:
{chowchow} for 1 scum remaining.

But I suppose to be objective, the objective pool should be,
{

WhemeStar

,

DKKoba

,

STD

, chowchow}
Where underlined are incredibly unlikely to be scum by role/play, and italicized are personal townreads of mine of significant strength.

Updated this btw.

It's literally just chowchow here, with the

possibility

of being others, but it's just chowchow.

[mastina]

Uh wheme is dead…?

Oops.

Milobird has no clear but this is Bell's townplay and also notty looks insanely town af anyway.
SirCakez has a clear, and is thus incredibly unlikely to be scum, plus is half of the vig.
MathBlade has a clear, and on top of that is a role incredibly likely to be town.
Titus is a friendly neighbor and is thus conftown.
Pooky is half of the vig and from a list of five from which Pooky could select anyone, Pooky selected a strong scum PR to kill and is thus, 99% likely town.
Malakittens has a clear (on top of being town)

So removing those, it leaves:
Save The Dragons
chowchow (Anonymous Hydra)
DkKoba Thestatusquo (has roleclaimed but this roleclaim doesn't affect my read)

From there, I still have a townread on STD (I realize this isn't universal) and think that DKKoba is still less likely to be scum from play alone.

Which leaves my personal initial "PoE" (it's not really one since some of the names here aren't so much scumreads as much as "I personally cannot get a read there RIGHT NOW even if others can and think the slot is town") as:
{chowchow} for 1 scum remaining.

But I suppose to be objective, the objective pool should be,
{

DKKoba

,

STD

, chowchow}
Where underlined are incredibly unlikely to be scum by role/play, and italicized are personal townreads of mine of significant strength.

It's literally just chowchow here, with the

possibility

of being others, but it's just chowchow.

[mastina]

I dunno how I feel about Mastina blame gaming. She’s right, but everyone knows that so why say it

Because I tend to not take it kindly when the town fucking eliminates one of my strongest townreads and they flip town especially if they flip a strong town PR and especially if they did this without allowing the player to claim.

And I am a vindicative bitch. You tick me off, I WON'T let you forget it for the rest of the game. And I AM pissed.

[mastina]

Wait did both uses of my ability get stopped LMAO

Well, when the town rushes through an elimination without coordinating actions......

[mastina]

Chow
Std
Pooky
Sircakez
Mastina
Koba
Titus
Milo
Math
I

chow--has made something vaguely resembling a claim but is deliberately obfuscating the full effects of it.
STD--has claimed pokemon and current role albeit not the flavor for his first/second role actions or the flavor for his current action and hasn't outted his first target (second was MathBlade, but this failed due to Gamma)
Pooky--half of the N1 vig, via a neighborhood with SirCakez. Basically conftown.
SirCakez--half of the N1 vig, via a neighborhood with Pooky, and modconfirmed to be town via being targeted N1 by Firebringer's role.
mastina--Sudowoodo, move Mimic; I gained a 1x copy of the first move (read: role ability) to target me (if targeted by multiple moves during the same phase, which move I got would be randomized, later clarified that the ability needs to

succeed

in order to count so all abilities that targeted me but failed wouldn't be eligible for me to mimic); thanks to Gamma targeting me N1, I got the ability to stop a player from being visited (read; rolestop).
DKKoba--I don't remember the pokemon/flavor but some form of initial-BP? that evolved into a form of delayed rolestopper-of-sorts functioning like a roleblocker (it makes sense when you read DKKoba's iso, so this summary not the best).
Titus--Friendly Neighbor; modconfirmed conftown'd.
Milo--might be unclaimed but is town.
MathBlade--modconfirmed conftown'd by TIL; conftown'd Malakittens.
Malakittens--modconfirmed conftown'd by MathBlade; some form of permanent busdriver between self and target, evolved into new unclaimed role.

[mastina]

Also, no. I'm never clearing Pooky this game without a cop clear. I just can't.

Well then you're doing exactly what scum did because this should be all you need for proof of why Pooky is town:

If Pooky literally never buses his buddies D1 doesn't that cross into a trust tell? Like instead of "I'm always town if I say I am" it's "I'm always town if I say 'vote X' and X flips scum D1"?

Ugh. I just don't believe scum target TIL which would mean hoping Gamma targeted someone else. When scum have presumably used Perish Song on someone. Like, who else would Dwlee realistically have used Perish Song on?

And if there's a town power that could direct the scum kill onto Pooky surely someone would have claimed that?

So VOTE: Pooky

There must be some games where it would have been more beneficial for Pooky to bus scum D1. If it's just a case that he's not needed to do far, then why do people place so much weight on it? "Pooky has never bussed D1" feels fine to me in a way which "Pooky never busses D1" doesn't.

There must be some games where it would have been more beneficial for Pooky to bus scum D1. If it's just a case that he's not needed to do far, then why do people place so much weight on it? "Pooky has never bussed D1" feels fine to me in a way which "Pooky never busses D1" doesn't.

You continuing to push Pooky isn’t doing you any favours. He’s practically confitown for the one shot vig thing.

Clearly not everyone agrees with you.

I just feel there's something off when people are treating it 100% confirmation of Pooky town. If other people are loudly proclaiming this every game it happens then Pooky not advertising it himself is irrelevant. Effectively town's getting an extra N1 cop inno result in a quarter or so of the games Pooky's in.

I don't know, it just annoys me we've gone from about to lim Pooky to about to lim me just because of this tell that everyone treats as gospel.

Read what imaginality is saying there and read what you're saying now and think about that for a second.

Pooky is town.

[mastina]

You can have this position as scum too tho.

Can?

Yes. (It's within my theoretical capabilities to fake-rage or show real rage at the town's idiocy even if said buffoonery was to my benefit. Theoretically, that's something I'm capable of, so 'can' is accurate.)

Have?

I fucking DARE you to find a scum game where I show rage.

(They don't exist btw.)

[mastina]

mastina you didnt start out as Bonsly? (Im not shading you i know youre clear i just find it strange)

Nope, just Sudowoodo. Got no evolution, nothing, no prior form, am just Sudowoodo. AKA Usokkie. The imitation pokemon. Pokemon #185. With the move Mimic, which is a move to learn one opponent's move, which is for that battle only.

[mastina]

◓ Each role is based off of a specific Pokémon from the franchises

second and third

Generation.

[mastina]

Side note: Math isn't technically conftown but I'd bet he is town.

Um, investigated by the delayed cop, and with the Godfather flipped already?

How would MathBlade NOT be conftown?

Because I am pretty sure that being investigated, successfully, by the cop, when we know who the godfather was, means that MathBlade is conftown.

[mastina]

(I'll compile and combine both of my important posts this day phase, 4882 and 4903 with a side of 4909 once I am home from work. I need to update both of them to account for all the info, since neither post is perfectly written.)

[mastina]

Math claimed bus driver....

No, that was Malakittens. Who is a permanent bus driver between herself and Milobird.

MathBlade is a modified Universal Backup, basically my role from GIFs FFXIV game, where he got a 1x copy of a dead town's move of his choice.

[mastina]

(And before you ask, MathBlade conftown'd Malakittens, not Milobird. Not that it matters much because both the Malakittens and Milobird slots are obvtown by play.)

[mastina]

Then how did Milobird get my friendly neighbor?

Another mod error?

Titus are you forgetting

your own role

?

Milo got it in spite of the busdrive because of you being strong willed. You literally already confirmed that your role would bypass/override redirection actions.

[mastina]

Malas role never went off because gamma rolestopped me.

Okay so I might need to put a little more time/effort into my revised post, listing not only all claimed actions but also their interactions with each other.

[mastina]

Still tho.
SirCakez is conftown.
Malakittens is conftown.
Titus is conftown.
MathBlade is conftown.
These clears above are 100% indisputable FACTS.
Pooky is basically conftown.
This is a 99% clear.

Milobird is obvtown.

If you take the above to be true, the pool of possible scum is quite small.

[mastina]

Still tho.
SirCakez is conftown.
Malakittens is conftown.
Titus is conftown.
MathBlade is conftown.
These clears above are 100% indisputable FACTS.
Pooky is basically conftown.
This is a 99% clear.

Milobird is obvtown.

If you take the above to be true, the pool of possible scum is quite small.

Then pick one in that small pool

I did.
I'm voting chowchow.

[mastina]

Comprehensive List of Claims/Reads

, Version 1.0

T3

Pokemon:

Makuhita

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Bulk Up

Role:

extra attack for evolution

(speculation: evolution was an X-shot vig?)

Actions:

N1, did nothing? (not confirmed, but role wasn't evolved so presumed).

Notes:

(None)

Wisdom

Pokemon:

Huntail

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Dive

Role:

Nonconsecutive Follower (sees type of move target used, from Protective/Killing/Investigative/Misc.; couldn't use two nights in a row)

Actions:

Guess we'll never know, huh?

Notes:

Fuck y'all for extending the game because with Wisdom not speed-limmed we'd have already ended the game in a town win.

Alexandrite/Gamma Emerald

Pokemon:

Blissey

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Heal Pulse

Role:

Indecisive Rolestopper (prevents target from being affected by any move/role; cannot target the same player consecutively)

Actions:

N1, rolestopped mastina (granting her a 1x copy of his role); N2, rolestopped Milobird; N3, rolestopped Truth Innuendos Lies (this is the source of the failed nightkill); N4, rolestopped MathBlade; N5, ???; was nightkilled.

Notes:

(None)

WhemeStar

Pokemon:

Gardevoir

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Imprison

Role:

Fruit Vendor->Strong-Willed Friendly Neighbor

Actions:

N1, ???; N2, ???; N3, targeted PookyTheMagicalBear (nobody targeted Pooky N3), N4 ???; was nightkilled.

Notes:

(None)

The Goat/Titus

Pokemon:

???

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Splash?

Role:

Combined Jailkeeper Watcher (Targets a player; target is protected but roleblocked; learns whoever visited target)

Actions:

N1, targeted Kitty Trauma Team/Malakittens and evolved. N2, Friendly Neighbor'd Milobird. (Milobird confirmed.)

Notes:

(None)

Truth Innuendos Lies

Pokemon:

Absol

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Future Sight

Role:

Informed 3-shot Delayed Cop (targets a player; receives their role the next night; could use this action three times; knew there was a Godfather in the game, later revealed to be

imaginality

)

Actions:

N1,

Dwlee

; N2, investigated SleepyKrew/Valkyrie Dimension/Critter/Mathblade, received the result of them being

town

; N3, ??? (but was killed before results); N4, was nightkilled.

Notes:

Was the N3 nightkill, due to Gamma Emerald's rolestop being the only killstop effect to work that night.

Kitty Trauma Team/Malakittens

Pokemon:

Remoraid->Octillery

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

???->???

Role:

Neighborizer-permanent-Busdriver(busdrives self and neighborized target permanently)->???

Actions:

N1, ???; N2, targeted Milobird (this action failed due to Gamma Emerald's rolestop); evolved; N3, ???; N4, ???; N5, ???

Notes:

Was confirmed as town from

MathBlade

using a

Loyal Neighborize

on them N4.

SirCakez

Pokemon:

Solrock

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Wonder Room

Role:

Neighbor-Vigilante with

PookyTheMagicalBear

Actions:

N1, Vigged

Gypyx

.

Notes:

Was confirmed as town from

Firebringer

using a

Loyal Neighborize

on him N1.

SleepyKrew/Valkyrie Dimension/Critter

Pokemon:

Lotad->Lombre->Ludicolo

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Mega Drain->1x Dragon Dance->???

Role:

???->modified 1-Shot Universal Backup (chooses who to back up the role of)->1-shot Loyal Neighborizer (targets a player, forms a neighborhood with them; action fails if targeting scum)

Actions:

N4, neighborized

successfully

Kitty Trauma Team/Malakittens

, conftowning them.

Notes:

Was confirmed as town from

Truth Innuendos Lies

investigating him N2 and receiving this result N3.

Sharing the Braincell/ssbm_Kyouko

Pokemon:

Azurill

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Attract

Role:

Lovedizer (target takes one more vote to eliminate)

Actions:

N1, ???; was nightkilled.

Notes:

(None)

Firebringer

Pokemon:

Rayquaza

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Dragon Dance

Role:

1-shot Loyal Neighborizer (once in game, targets a player, forms a neighborhood with them; action fails if targeting scum)

Actions:

N1, neighborized

successfully

SirCakez

, conftowning him.

Notes:

(None)

Ralts/PookyTheMagicalBear

Pokemon:

Lunatone

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Wonder Room

Role:

Neighbor-Vigilante with

SirCakez

Actions:

N1, Vigged

Gypyx

.

Notes:

Pooky never busses D1 so is basically conftown. Even if he weren't,

Spoiler: consider this

Also, no. I'm never clearing Pooky this game without a cop clear. I just can't.

Well then you're doing exactly what scum did because this should be all you need for proof of why Pooky is town:

If Pooky literally never buses his buddies D1 doesn't that cross into a trust tell? Like instead of "I'm always town if I say I am" it's "I'm always town if I say 'vote X' and X flips scum D1"?

Ugh. I just don't believe scum target TIL which would mean hoping Gamma targeted someone else. When scum have presumably used Perish Song on someone. Like, who else would Dwlee realistically have used Perish Song on?

And if there's a town power that could direct the scum kill onto Pooky surely someone would have claimed that?

So VOTE: Pooky

There must be some games where it would have been more beneficial for Pooky to bus scum D1. If it's just a case that he's not needed to do far, then why do people place so much weight on it? "Pooky has never bussed D1" feels fine to me in a way which "Pooky never busses D1" doesn't.

There must be some games where it would have been more beneficial for Pooky to bus scum D1. If it's just a case that he's not needed to do far, then why do people place so much weight on it? "Pooky has never bussed D1" feels fine to me in a way which "Pooky never busses D1" doesn't.

You continuing to push Pooky isn’t doing you any favours. He’s practically confitown for the one shot vig thing.

Clearly not everyone agrees with you.

I just feel there's something off when people are treating it 100% confirmation of Pooky town. If other people are loudly proclaiming this every game it happens then Pooky not advertising it himself is irrelevant. Effectively town's getting an extra N1 cop inno result in a quarter or so of the games Pooky's in.

I don't know, it just annoys me we've gone from about to lim Pooky to about to lim me just because of this tell that everyone treats as gospel.

Read what imaginality is saying there and read what you're saying now and think about that for a second.

Pooky is town.

That should be enough to elevate him to conftown levels for you.

Milobird

Pokemon:

??? (unclaimed as far as I know)

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

??? (unclaimed as far as I know)

Role:

??? (unclaimed as far as I know)

Actions:

N1, ???. N2, targeted Wisdom. N3, targeted Malakittens. N4, ???. N5, ???.

Notes:

Obvtown by play.

mastina

Pokemon:

Sudowoodo

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Mimic

Role:

Reflexive Role-copier (the first player to target me, I get a one-shot copy of their move/role)->One-shot rolestopper

Actions:

N1, received a rolestop (later revealed to be Gamma Emerald's); N2, rolestopped DKKoba.

Notes:

Well I know I'm town but objectively I've technically only got circumstantial evidence clearing me between my interactions with scum, scum's interactions with me, the unlikelihood of scum having both my role and Gypyx's, and that I am out of my scum range, but *shrug*, SOME fucks still don't see me as town so make of it what you will.

Thestatusquo/DKKoba

Pokemon:

??? (for DKKoba having said they've fullclaimed, I can't seem to find their pokemon.)

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Sturdy->???

Role:

Bulletproof->Nonconsecutive Delayed modified-Rolestopper which is a form of Roleblocker (targets a player; anyone targeting that player that night is roleblocked the following night)

Actions:

N1, evolved. N2, self-targeted (this failed due to me, mastina, rolestopping them); N3, could not act; N4, targeted MathBlade (this failed due to Gamma Emerald rolestopping them); N5, couldn't act.

Notes:

Personal townread. Claim doesn't seem like bullshit that was made up, and doesn't seem to be a scum role, either.

Save the Dragons

Pokemon:

Mareep->Flaafy->Ampharos

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Light Screen->Growl->Cotton Spore

Role:

Protection from non-Normal(type) moves (with link to Normal-type moves)->protect from harmful moves, prioritizing non-killing moves (one action stopped/night)->treestumps a player after their death.

Actions:

N1, evolved. N2, evolved. N3, targeted an unknown(unclaimed) but conftown player. N4, targeted MathBlade (however, this failed due to Gamma Emerald's rolestop).

Notes:

Personal townread. This feels like the same STD as I saw in Final Fantasy XIV, although I admit that objectively, he's within the POE.

chowchow

Pokemon:

Allegedly, Wurmple->Cascoon->Dustox (allegedly due to scum flip)

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Allegedly, Confusion?

Role:

Allegedly, Roleblocker that doesn't stop kills?

Actions:

Allegedly, evolved N1; Allegedly, evolved N2; Allegedly, no-action'd N3/N4/N5.

Notes:

The amount of 'allegedly' here should clue you in to chowchow's obstinance here as they've refused to claim without the use of pictures or gimmicks in their words whatsoever. They used pictures, then they used various 'chows' in their terms, so they've stubbornly refused to claim their actions without a gimmick making this hard to lock down for sure.

Is by POE probably just the last scum.



Version 1.0 because it took me an hour and a half to type this (started at 1:30, is now 3), and I am tired, I'm posting it, in spite of how it probably contains factual errors that I'll need to correct in 2.0, butyeah this is everything I think assuming I didn't make any errors.

[mastina]

I don't like having Milobird in the clears pile unless they are actually cleared
strong town by play sure but that's not a clear
@Mastina

I didn't have them in the clear pile. Green = clear, blue = not CLEAR clear but very close to.

I wasn't ever a jailkeeper. I was a fruit vendor Mastina.

Sloppy copy-pasting error on my part, I copied Wheme's for yours and missed a line on editing. When home from work, will updated it in 2.0.

Btw, while I'll leave determining who's scum to the conftown (I legit can't tell who it is between STD and DKKoba),
HURT: Save the Dragons
I basically told myself "if scum kill the non-stumped conftown it's probably DKKoba afraid to confirm STD's role; if scum kill the stumped conftown it's probably STD wanting to confirm his role", and since the latter happened, if forced to choose, that's where I'd go.

But, gotta leave for work now so be back later tonight.

[mastina]

i didn't out my target and look what happened

you really think as the last scum i big brained a kill on my target so that i'd look townie

Yes, that's actually a big part of why in DKKoba vs. You, I think that the Titus kill implicates you.

If the scum wanted to kill conftown that they knew was killable, they could've killed MathBlade.
DKKoba can't protect the same person twice in a row, so killing MathBlade was safe. And your stumping of MathBlade failed due to the rolestop, so there was zero risk of killing MathBlade.

…So why didn't the scum kill MathBlade in spite of knowing that it was a 100% free, safe kill guaranteed to work without consequences? It's not like Titus is more conftown than MathBlade; they're both equally as confirmed.

Which means that the kill is more likely to be deliberately designed to confirm your role.

Also, as an aside, I'm pretty sure that I can take issue with your choice of target being Titus in the first place. I'll probably need to be at home to verify my mental math here tho.

[mastina]

Math, why would scum!STD stump me when he could stump a PR?

The stump only applies after the slot has been killed. It doesn't remove the player's role.

That's precisely why I take issue with the Titus target. There was a slot who was confown on D2 who is a PR. Maybe multiple by D3. (Again, need to check my mental math, here.)

Why not treestump a conftown with a PR and/or an investigative? Imagine how we'd be if TIL was given the tree stump N3.

[mastina]

outside chance of Milo or Mastina

if it makes you feel better, we can ask Milobird to claim. Fullclaim.

[mastina]

titus was cleared
i was never choosing pooky because he wasn't hard cleared

Okay but SirCakez was cleared D2, a full day before Titus was.

[mastina]

We both think it's Mastina.

Fuck off.

[mastina]

Side note:

Math

isn't technically conftown but I'd bet he is town.

I don’t think

cakez

is a hard clear either

is

mala

cleared? i forgot

the PoE is 100% exactly [Me, StD,

Mathblade

] - i include mathblade because i think the way mathblade is playing this here is very much the way someone who wants to avoid entering PoE after suspects are confirmed flipped green play - but this is not something i see likely so mathblade dont omgus me bc i dont think thats likely its just a backup theory.

And here I thought y'all voting Wisdom was the biggest possible throw you could do this game.

If you're going to suspect literal 100% beyond all shadow of a doubt conftown here and at any point act on that suspicion, y'all literally deserve to lose for being literal 0-IQ gameplayers.

Malakittens was, successfully, neighborized by MathBlade, using a copy of Firebringer's Loyal Neighborize. As the scum godfather is dead and the scum backup is also dead, this is a 100% guaranteed clear.

MathBlade was, successfully, cop cleared by Truth Innuendos Lies. As the scum godfather is dead and the scum backup is also dead, this is a 100% guaranteed clear. "But mastina, what if MathBlade busdrove himself and someone else?" A valid theory in theory, but that falls apart when you realize that the night the result came in was the night that scum nightkilled TIL (but Gamma stopped them from doing so). If MathBlade was going to get a cop-generated false-clear on himself, why would he kill the cop before the cop actually generated said false-clear? We know that the scum killed TIL N3, and TIL received the cop clear on MathBlade D4, so MathBlade couldn't be scum here because he wouldn't have killed the cop before the cop generated the false-innocent. So this is, in fact, a 100% guaranteed clear.

SirCakez was, successfully, neighborized by Firebringer, the original Loyal Neighborizer. As the scum godfather is dead and the scum backup is also dead, this is a 100% guaranteed clear.

[mastina]

@mastina when you see this can you explain the thought process you went through to reach those reads so we can put this tinfoil to rest?

Sure can!

I'm in absolutely ZERO mood to do so tho.

I'm literally in the middle of a, once again, basically 1.5 hour long update to the List of Claims. I started it even before I made 5314, like at least 15 minutes before that post, and it is now an hour later meaning I've been at it for the better part of an hour.

I've ZERO fucks to give about defending myself when I've spent my time more

productively

in doing something actually

scumhunting

.

I'm fully

capable

of going through my entire iso if you'd like, step by step, and laying out the entirety of my thought process at every single stage! I can't

always

pull that off, but for some reason, in this game, right now, I actually AM capable of that feat!

I've zero desire to right now because frankly: I've got better uses of my time right now. Namely, solving the game.

[mastina]

actually nvm mastina you dont have to ^ milo please this is genuine and town as fuck

Side-note:
This is actually just me continuing Wisdom's work.

I opted for a more readslist-styled format (where I put everyone conftown in the order of the playerlist and everyone not-conftown in the order of my readslist, i.e., Pooky > Milobird >>> DKKoba > STD with me listed in there among DKKoba/STD due to me objectively not being conftown and me needing to make the list comprehensive), but where do you think I got the idea to do it from and got most of the notes which I used?

I literally took Wisdom's series of posts, the last being 4259, and adapted it to be more mastina-styled. I couldn't do what I wanted to with Wisdom's table format so I took my own, because I wanted to incorporate extra notes from my 4882, 4903, 4909, and 4958 into a single post.

Still tho.

I remain bitter as fuck that you're calling MINE "genuine and town as fuck", when really--Wisdom's was just as much if not more.

[mastina]

Comprehensive List of Claims/Reads

, Version 2.0

T3

Pokemon:

Makuhita

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Bulk Up

Role:

extra attack for evolution

(speculation: evolution was an X-shot vig?)

Actions:

N1, did nothing? (not confirmed, but role wasn't evolved so presumed).

Notes:

(None)

Wisdom

Pokemon:

Huntail

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Dive

Role:

Nonconsecutive Follower (sees type of move target used, from Protective/Killing/Investigative/Misc.; couldn't use two nights in a row)

Actions:

Guess we'll never know, huh?

Notes:

Fuck y'all for extending the game because with Wisdom not speed-limmed we'd have already ended the game in a town win.

Alexandrite/Gamma Emerald

Pokemon:

Blissey

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Heal Pulse

Role:

Indecisive Rolestopper (prevents target from being affected by any move/role; cannot target the same player consecutively)

Actions:

N1, rolestopped mastina (granting her a 1x copy of his role); N2, rolestopped Milobird; N3, rolestopped Truth Innuendos Lies (this is the source of the failed nightkill); N4, rolestopped MathBlade; N5, ???; was nightkilled.

Notes:

(None)

WhemeStar

Pokemon:

Gardevoir

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Imprison

Role:

Combined Jailkeeper Watcher (Targets a player; target is protected but roleblocked; learns whoever visited target)

Actions:

N1, ???; N2, ???; N3, targeted PookyTheMagicalBear (nobody targeted Pooky N3), N4 ???; was nightkilled.

Notes:

(None)

The Goat/Titus

Pokemon:

Milotic->Milokaross

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Splash->Disarming Voice

Role:

Fruit Vendor->1-shot Strong-Willed Friendly Neighbor (cannot be prevented, but could be redirected)

Actions:

N1, targeted Kitty Trauma Team/Malakittens (this action's failure is unexplained) and evolved. N2, Friendly Neighbor'd Milobird. (Milobird confirmed.); N6 was nightkilled.

Notes:

(None)

chowchow

Pokemon:

Wurmple->Cascoon->Dustox (allegedly due to scum flip D1)

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Confusion

Role:

Roleblocker that doesn't stop kills

Actions:

evolved N1; evolved N2; no-action'd N3/N4/N5.

Notes:

...Oops?

Truth Innuendos Lies

Pokemon:

Absol

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Future Sight

Role:

Informed 3-shot Delayed Cop (targets a player; receives their role the next night; could use this action three times; knew there was a Godfather in the game, later revealed to be

imaginality

)

Actions:

N1,

Dwlee

; N2, investigated SleepyKrew/Valkyrie Dimension/Critter/Mathblade, received the result of them being

town

; N3, ??? (but was killed before results); N4, was nightkilled.

Notes:

Was the N3 nightkill, due to Gamma Emerald's rolestop being the only killstop effect to work that night.

Kitty Trauma Team/Malakittens

Pokemon:

Remoraid->Octillery

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

???->???

Role:

Neighborizer-permanent-Busdriver(busdrives self and neighborized target permanently)->???

Actions:

N1, ???; N2, targeted Milobird (this action failed due to Gamma Emerald's rolestop); evolved; N3, ???; N4, ???; N5, ???; N6, ???

Notes:

Was confirmed as town from

MathBlade

using a

Loyal Neighborize

on them N4.

SirCakez

Pokemon:

Solrock

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Wonder Room

Role:

Neighbor-Vigilante with

PookyTheMagicalBear

Actions:

N1, Vigged

Gypyx

.

Notes:

Was confirmed as town from

Firebringer

using a

Loyal Neighborize

on him N1.

SleepyKrew/Valkyrie Dimension/Critter/MathBlade

Pokemon:

Lotad->Lombre->Ludicolo

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Mega Drain->1x Dragon Dance->???

Role:

???->modified 1-Shot Universal Backup (chooses who to back up the role of)->1-shot Loyal Neighborizer (targets a player, forms a neighborhood with them; action fails if targeting scum)

Actions:

N4, neighborized

successfully

Kitty Trauma Team/Malakittens

, conftowning them.

Notes:

Was confirmed as town from

Truth Innuendos Lies

investigating him N2 and receiving this result N3.

Sharing the Braincell/ssbm_Kyouko

Pokemon:

Azurill

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Attract

Role:

Lovedizer (target takes one more vote to eliminate)

Actions:

N1, ???; was nightkilled.

Notes:

(None)

Firebringer

Pokemon:

Rayquaza

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Dragon Dance

Role:

1-shot Loyal Neighborizer (once in game, targets a player, forms a neighborhood with them; action fails if targeting scum)

Actions:

N1, neighborized

successfully

SirCakez

, conftowning him.

Notes:

(None)

Ralts/PookyTheMagicalBear

Pokemon:

Lunatone

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Wonder Room

Role:

Neighbor-Vigilante with

SirCakez

Actions:

N1, Vigged

Gypyx

.

Notes:

Pooky never busses D1 so is basically conftown. Even if he weren't,

Spoiler: consider this

Also, no. I'm never clearing Pooky this game without a cop clear. I just can't.

Well then you're doing exactly what scum did because this should be all you need for proof of why Pooky is town:

If Pooky literally never buses his buddies D1 doesn't that cross into a trust tell? Like instead of "I'm always town if I say I am" it's "I'm always town if I say 'vote X' and X flips scum D1"?

Ugh. I just don't believe scum target TIL which would mean hoping Gamma targeted someone else. When scum have presumably used Perish Song on someone. Like, who else would Dwlee realistically have used Perish Song on?

And if there's a town power that could direct the scum kill onto Pooky surely someone would have claimed that?

So VOTE: Pooky

There must be some games where it would have been more beneficial for Pooky to bus scum D1. If it's just a case that he's not needed to do far, then why do people place so much weight on it? "Pooky has never bussed D1" feels fine to me in a way which "Pooky never busses D1" doesn't.

There must be some games where it would have been more beneficial for Pooky to bus scum D1. If it's just a case that he's not needed to do far, then why do people place so much weight on it? "Pooky has never bussed D1" feels fine to me in a way which "Pooky never busses D1" doesn't.

You continuing to push Pooky isn’t doing you any favours. He’s practically confitown for the one shot vig thing.

Clearly not everyone agrees with you.

I just feel there's something off when people are treating it 100% confirmation of Pooky town. If other people are loudly proclaiming this every game it happens then Pooky not advertising it himself is irrelevant. Effectively town's getting an extra N1 cop inno result in a quarter or so of the games Pooky's in.

I don't know, it just annoys me we've gone from about to lim Pooky to about to lim me just because of this tell that everyone treats as gospel.

Read what imaginality is saying there and read what you're saying now and think about that for a second.

Pooky is town.

That should be enough to elevate him to conftown levels for you.

Milobird

Pokemon:

Meditite->Medichan

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Detect(only???)->???

Role:

2-shot nerfed/ORIGINAL-Motion Detector (also known as a weak-voyeur, not weak-modifier, but literally

weakened

-voyeur; may be getting an official NRG-rebranded-name soon) / Activated Bulletproof->Flavor Cop / Rolecop (depending on target's evolutionary status); checks what someone evolves into and if they’ve evolved/can still.

Actions:

N1, immunity, triggering evolution. N2, targeted Wisdom (result: two evolutions, one neighborizer one follower). N3, targeted Malakittens (result; evolved). N4, targeted STD (result, STD is a 2-evolution pokemon). N5, ???. N6, ???

Notes:

Obvtown by play, but not conftown.

Milobird where's the N5/N6?

mastina

Pokemon:

Sudowoodo

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Mimic

Role:

Reflexive Role-copier (the first player to target me, I get a one-shot copy of their move/role)->One-shot rolestopper

Actions:

N1, received a rolestop (later revealed to be Gamma Emerald's); N2, rolestopped DKKoba.

Notes:

Well I know I'm town but objectively I've technically only got circumstantial evidence clearing me between my interactions with scum, scum's interactions with me, the unlikelihood of scum having both my role and Gypyx's, and that I am out of my scum range, but *shrug*, SOME fucks still don't see me as town so make of it what you will.

Thestatusquo/DKKoba

Pokemon:

Phanpy->Donphan

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Sturdy->???

Role:

Bulletproof->Nonconsecutive Delayed modified-Rolestopper which is a form of Roleblocker (targets a player; anyone targeting that player that night is roleblocked the following night)

Actions:

N1, evolved. N2, self-targeted (this failed due to me, mastina, rolestopping them); N3, could not act; N4, targeted MathBlade (this failed due to Gamma Emerald rolestopping them); N5, couldn't act.

Notes:

Was a personal townread. Claim doesn't seem like bullshit that was made up, and doesn't seem to be a scum role, either.

Save the Dragons

Pokemon:

Mareep->Flaafy->Ampharos

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Light Screen->Growl->Cotton Spore

Role:

Protection from non-Normal(type) moves (with link to Normal-type moves)->protect from harmful moves, prioritizing non-killing moves (one action stopped/night)->treestumps a player after their death.

Actions:

N1, evolved. N2, evolved. N3, targeted

Titus

. N4, targeted MathBlade (however, this failed due to Gamma Emerald's rolestop).

Notes:

Was a townread. It felt like the same STD as I saw in Final Fantasy XIV, but today's events and last night's events make him look more suspect. Why Titus instead of SirCakez? His treestump only activates on the player's death. Treestumping Titus N3 didn't make Titus die N3; Titus was still able to vote and if she had a role, could've used it, up through N6.

In other words, using it on the known player whose role was expended instead of elsewhere is rather suspicious. Why not on SirCakez? He was clear but his role was unknown. Why not on TIL? They could've given us a third inno. Why not on WhemeStar? You get the idea. Plus, beyond that? The scum knew that MathBlade wasn't treestumped and wasn't able to be protected by DKKoba. Why was MathBlade NOT killed by the scum N6? And why did the scum know to target Titus?

Last night, aside from MathBlade, we had three conftown. Even with Malakittens not conftown on N3 (which diligent scum would be able to figure out), that's still a 50/50. How did they get it right?

I have my concerns about STD, and there's more not listed there (from other players who I read their points and didn't quote in my iso to +1 them, oops, but their points are valid and add to mine), so STD has some very ??? things going on.

[mastina]

Yo Milo I saw you read my post.

Milobird

Pokemon:

Meditite->Medichan

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Detect(only???)->???

Role:

2-shot nerfed/ORIGINAL-Motion Detector (also known as a weak-voyeur, not weak-modifier, but literally

weakened

-voyeur; may be getting an official NRG-rebranded-name soon) / Activated Bulletproof->Flavor Cop / Rolecop (depending on target's evolutionary status); checks what someone evolves into and if they’ve evolved/can still.

Actions:

N1, immunity, triggering evolution. N2, targeted Wisdom (result: two evolutions, one neighborizer one follower). N3, targeted Malakittens (result; evolved). N4, targeted STD (result, STD is a 2-evolution pokemon).

N5, ???. N6, ???

Notes:

Obvtown by play, but not conftown.

Milobird where's the N5/N6?

So like, having read my post could you answer this?

[mastina]

I want fire to full claim his inno

im a neighborizer who can only neighborize town. i tricked cakez into buying a duplex in my neighborhood at 15% interest rate. Was a wise investment if u ask me.

Firebringer clearing Goat but not dwlee means Firebringer is scumconf smh

i also cleared cakez. does that make me breakeven

just gonna announce this because i don't crumb.
sircakez is town conf.

Firebringer was found KO'd overnight, and despite your best efforts to revive him you were unable. His role was...[/b][/color]

DRAGON DANCE:

The user vigorously performs a mystic, powerful dance.
◓ Once, during the night you may perform a dragon dance while targeting another player. This will open a Private Thread that you can communicate in.
◓ This move will fail when targetting someone that appears as

Team Rocket

I'm

pretty

sure we've got more than SirCakez's word here, Mala.

[mastina]

(I am quickly realizing precisely why the town pulled such a moronic move as mislimming Wisdom one of the players who should never have been eliminated before he could claim.
I am getting the distinct feeling I'm literally the only townie who is actually

paying attention

to the things said in the game.)

[mastina]

(At least the bright side to this is that the scum can't exploit the stupidity of the town because most of it is coming from the conftown--they need to kill the conftown to win which means they can't afford to kill the source of shutting down stupidity a la nightkilling me. So as long as I live I'll continue to keep players from gamethrowing more than they already did. But hey, if you listen to Milobird and MathBlade, there's an easy fix for the scum's issue!)

[mastina]

You know what, fuck off.

I wasn't speaking about you, Malakittens.

I was speaking about basically the entirety of the town.

You're just the latest to have forgotten critical facts in the town.

I wasn't speaking about you. It wasn't directed at you.

It was directed at literally everyone, because it seems that the same shit keeps cropping up. "(Player who is literally conftown) is at least partially sus".

You did it, sure--but so has DKKoba, so has Save the Dragons, so has Titus, and while one of {DKKoba, STD} has a fairly high chance of being the last scum the other is town so that means at least three town players have said a player who is conftown, they suspect to some extent.

So I think I have the right to be miffed about at least 3 town players displaying potentially-gamethrowing behaviors which wouldn't be there with reading the game.

It's not you.

It's literally half the living players.

[mastina]

ok that percentage was totally made up

(technically, if you're town, the odds are 1/4 today, 1/3 tomorrow, and 1/2 in lylo, which you CAN write as .25 + .33 + .5 = 1.08, meaning if you accept this logic and don't point out the critical flaw in it we have a 108% chance at winning the game)

[mastina]

Btw,

Titus:

Genuinely curious, could you do your VCA here?

We have 3/8 living players that are conftown 100% (aside from Pooky basically being that but technically not being conftown).
We have had four flipped scum. A guilty on Dwlee throws off VCA for D3 but for the other days you'd have plenty of material and am genuinely curious if your VCA has any pointers for final scum.

[mastina]

Btw,

Titus:

Genuinely curious, could you do your VCA here?

We have 3/8 living players that are conftown 100% (aside from Pooky basically being that but technically not being conftown).
We have had four flipped scum. A guilty on Dwlee throws off VCA for D3 but for the other days you'd have plenty of material and am genuinely curious if your VCA has any pointers for final scum.

(Obviously, this isn't a high priority thing, but would potentially be helpful to see.)

[mastina]

Spoiler: D1 VCs

VC1.02

Firebringer

(1):

Ralts/PookyTheMagicalBear

Save The Dragons (5):

Thestatusquo,

Sharing the Brain Cell/ssbm_kyouko

,

Woolax

,

chowchow

,

SleepyKrew/Valkyrie Dimension/Critter/MathBlade

Milobird

(3):

Kitty Trauma Team/Malakittens

,

imaginality

, Save The Dragons

Sharing the Brain Cell/ssbm_kyouko

(6):

SirCakez

,

Firebringer

,

WhemeStar

,

Wisdom

,

Gypyx

,

Truth Innuendos Lies

Truth Innuendos Lies

(1):

Dwlee99

WhemeStar

(1):

Milobird

SirCakez

(1):

mastina

Not Voting:

T3

,

Alexandrite/Gamma Emerald

,

The Goat/Titus

VC1.03

Save The Dragons (4):

Thestatusquo,

Sharing the Brain Cell/ssbm_kyouko

,

Woolax

,

SleepyKrew/Valkyrie Dimension/Critter/MathBlade

Milobird

(2):

Kitty Trauma Team/Malakittens

, Save The Dragons

Sharing the Brain Cell/ssbm_kyouko

(7):

SirCakez

,

WhemeStar

,

Wisdom

,

Gypyx

,

Truth Innuendos Lies

,

Dwlee99

,

T3

Gypyx

(6):

Alexandrite/Gamma Emerald

,

Milobird

,

Firebringer

,

Ralts/PookyTheMagicalBear

,

imaginality

,

chowchow

SirCakez

(1):

mastina

Not Voting:

The Goat/Titus

VC1.04

Gypyx

(7):

Alexandrite/Gamma Emerald

,

Milobird

,

Ralts/PookyTheMagicalBear

,

imaginality

,

chowchow

,

WhemeStar

,

Sharing the Brain Cell/ssbm_kyouko

Sharing the Brain Cell/ssbm_kyouko

(4):

Wisdom

,

Gypyx

,

T3

,

Firebringer

Save The Dragons (2):

Woolax

,

SleepyKrew/Valkyrie Dimension/Critter/MathBlade

Milobird

(2):

Kitty Trauma Team/Malakittens

, Save The Dragons

Alexandrite/Gamma Emerald

(2):

SirCakez

,

Dwlee99

Firebringer

(1):

Thestatusquo

SirCakez

(1):

mastina

SleepyKrew/Valkyrie Dimension/Critter/MathBlade

(1):

Truth Innuendos Lies

Not Voting:

The Goat/Titus

VC1.05

ssbm_kyouko

(5):

Wisdom

,

Gypyx

,

T3

,

Firebringer

,

Dwlee99

Gypyx

(4):

Alexandrite/Gamma Emerald

,

Milobird

,

Ralts/PookyTheMagicalBear

,

WhemeStar

Save The Dragons (2):

Woolax

,

SleepyKrew/Valkyrie Dimension/Critter/MathBlade

Woolax

(2):

Truth Innuendos Lies

, Save The Dragons

Milobird

(1):

Kitty Trauma Team/Malakittens

Wisdom

(1):

ssbm_kyouko

Alexandrite/Gamma Emerald

(1):

SirCakez

Firebringer

(1):

Thestatusquo

SirCakez

(1):

mastina

mastina (1:)

imaginality

Not Voting:

The Goat/Titus

,

chowchow

VC1.06

Gypyx

(4):

Alexandrite/Gamma Emerald

,

Milobird

,

Ralts/PookyTheMagicalBear

,

WhemeStar

Woolax

(4):

Truth Innuendos Lies

, Save The Dragons,

ssbm_kyouko

,

Wisdom

ssbm_kyouko

(3):

Gypyx

,

T3

,

Firebringer

Milobird

(1):

Kitty Trauma Team/Malakittens

Alexandrite/Gamma Emerald

(1):

SirCakez

Firebringer

(1):

Thestatusquo

SirCakez

(1):

mastina

mastina (1:)

imaginality

Save The Dragons (1):

Woolax

Not Voting:

The Goat/Titus

,

chowchow

,

Dwlee99

,

SleepyKrew/Valkyrie Dimension/Critter/MathBlade

VC1.FINAL

Woolax

(11) HAMMER:

Truth Innuendos Lies

,

ssbm_kyouko

,

Wisdom

,

Firebringer

,

chowchow

,

imaginality

, Save The Dragons,

SirCakez

,

SleepyKrew/Valkyrie Dimension/Critter/MathBlade

,

Gamma Emerald

,

WhemeStar

Gypyx

(2):

Milobird

,

Ralts/PookyTheMagicalBear

Gamma Emerald

(2):

T3

,

Gypyx

SirCakez

(1):

mastina

Save The Dragons (1):

Woolax

Wisdom

(1):

DkKoba

Not Voting:

The Goat/Titus

,

Dwlee99

,

Kitty Trauma Team/Malakittens

Spoiler: D2 VCs

VC 2.01

Kitty Trauma Team/Malakittens

(5):

Firebringer

,

SirCakez

,

PookyTheMagicalBear

,

WhemeStar

,

Kitty Trauma Team/Malakittens

PookyTheMagicalBear

(3):

T3

,

Dwlee99

, Save The Dragons

Wisdom

(1):

DkKoba

WhemeStar

(1):

Milobird

SirCakez

(1):

mastina

T3

(1):

Gamma Emerald

Dwlee99

(1):

Wisdom

Not Voting:

imaginality

,

Titus

,

chowchow

,

Truth Innuendos Lies

,

SleepyKrew/Valkyrie Dimension/Critter/MathBlade

VC 2.02

Kitty Trauma Team/Malakittens

(7):

Firebringer

,

SirCakez

,

PookyTheMagicalBear

,

WhemeStar

,

Kitty Trauma Team/Malakittens

,

Wisdom

,

Dwlee99

PookyTheMagicalBear

(2):

T3

, Save The Dragons

Wisdom

(2):

DkKoba,

Milobird

Titus

(1):

imaginality

SirCakez

(1):

mastina

T3

(1):

Gamma Emerald

Not Voting:

imaginality

,

Titus

,

chowchow

,

Truth Innuendos Lies

,

SleepyKrew/Valkyrie Dimension/Critter/MathBlade

VC 2.03

Wisdom

(3):

DkKoba,

Milobird

,

Gamma Emerald

T3

(3):

WhemeStar

,

Truth Innuendos Lies

,

SirCakez

Dwlee99

(3):

Wisdom

,

Firebringer

,

PookyTheMagicalBear

Kitty Trauma Team/Malakittens

(2):

Dwlee99

,

Kitty Trauma Team/Malakittens

PookyTheMagicalBear

(2):

T3

, Save The Dragons

Titus

(1):

imaginality

SirCakez

(1):

mastina

Not Voting:

Titus

,

chowchow

,

Valkyrie Dimension/Critter/MathBlade

VC 2.04

Dwlee99

(4):

Wisdom

,

Firebringer

,

PookyTheMagicalBear

,

WhemeStar

Valkyrie Dimension/Critter/MathBlade

(3):

DkKoba, mastina,

Titus

Wisdom

(2):

Milobird

,

Gamma Emerald

T3

(2):

SirCakez

,

Truth Innuendos Lies

Kitty Trauma Team/Malakittens

(2):

Dwlee99

,

Kitty Trauma Team/Malakittens

PookyTheMagicalBear

(2):

T3

, Save The Dragons

Titus

(1):

imaginality

Not Voting:

chowchow

,

Valkyrie Dimension/Critter/MathBlade

VC 2.05

Dwlee99

(2):

Firebringer

,

WhemeStar

imaginality

(1):

Titus

Valkyrie Dimension/Critter/MathBlade

(1):

DkKoba

Wisdom

(2):

Milobird

,

Gamma Emerald

T3

(6):

SirCakez

,

Truth Innuendos Lies

,

PookyTheMagicalBear

,

Wisdom

,

imaginality

, mastina

Kitty Trauma Team/Malakittens

(2):

Dwlee99

,

Kitty Trauma Team/Malakittens

PookyTheMagicalBear

(2):

T3

, Save The Dragons

Not Voting:

chowchow

,

Valkyrie Dimension/Critter/MathBlade

VC 2.06

T3

(7):

SirCakez

,

PookyTheMagicalBear

,

Wisdom

,

imaginality

, mastina,

Critter/MathBlade

,

Truth Innuendos Lies

Kitty Trauma Team/Malakittens

(2):

Dwlee99

,

Kitty Trauma Team/Malakittens

PookyTheMagicalBear

(2):

T3

, Save The Dragons

Wisdom

(2):

Milobird

,

Gamma Emerald

Dwlee99

(2):

Firebringer

,

WhemeStar

imaginality

(1):

Titus

Critter/MathBlade

(1):

DkKoba

Not Voting:

chowchow

VC 2.07

T3

(10): (HAMMER)

SirCakez

,

PookyTheMagicalBear

,

Wisdom

,

imaginality

, mastina,

Dwlee99

,

chowchow

,

Truth Innuendos Lies

,

Milobird

Kitty Trauma Team/Malakittens

(1):

Kitty Trauma Team/Malakittens

PookyTheMagicalBear

(1):

T3

Wisdom

(1):

Gamma Emerald

Dwlee99

(3):

Firebringer

,

WhemeStar

, DkKoba

imaginality

(1):

Titus

Not Voting:

Save The Dragons,

Critter/MathBlade

VC 4.01

Wisdom

(2):

Malakittens

,

Titus

PookyTheMagicalBear

(2):

mastina,

Wisdom

Milobird

(1):

DkKoba

Not Voting:

Milobird

, Save The Dragons,

imaginality

,

Gamma Emerald

,

WhemeStar

,

chowchow

,

Truth Innuendos Lies

,

PookyTheMagicalBear

,

SirCakez

,

MathBlade

VC 4.FINAL

imaginality

(8) HAMMER:

SirCakez

,

Wisdom

,

Titus

,

PookyTheMagicalBear

,

Truth Innuendos Lies

, mastina,

chowchow

,

imaginality

Wisdom

(1):

Malakittens

chowchow

(1):

DkKoba

Not Voting:

Save The Dragons,

Gamma Emerald

,

WhemeStar

,

MathBlade

,

Milobird

[mastina]

Oops forgot to make the Shea sections be Thestatusquo/DKKoba but close enough to done there.

[mastina]

(is 7 am and am tired so too tired to really get much there. Was hoping to go through mod iso + scum isos + nightkilled players' isos + nonconftown isos but while I did the first the rest will have to wait.)

[mastina]

There’s a vibe and you don’t match it which makes you sus.

Was the game solved when you rushed through a Wisdom elimination without letting him claim?

That's the 'vibe' the rest of the town had.

With respect: if that's the vibe that the town has, I'm not going to follow suit.

Because that type of vibe?

Is why the game hasn't already fucking ended in a town win.

We've had the game prolonged because of what amounts to town stupidity.

So if the town vibe is town stupidity?

I'll pass, thankyouverymuch.

[mastina]

mastina can u tell me what ur 3 person PoE looks like?

Well right now with Milobird having basically twice-dodged my question about their role, it's:
{Save the Dragons, Milobird, DKKoba}, in about that order actually in spite of how town Milobird appears.

We have 3/8 living conftown.
I know I am town so that's 4/8.
Pooky isn't technically conftown but is as close to conftown as he can get here from his scum vig and the scumplaining to him being conftown from said vig of scum.

Which leaves three possible names.

Milobird looks town by play but I'm not letting them get away without answering my question.

You look town by both play and claim.

STD looked town by play but we're in POE territory and I have issues with his claim.

[mastina]

We just elim someone in the PoE doesn’t matter who (which is why Wisdom wasn’t a bad elim) and keep going.

The problem with that mindset is that while from the perspective of the non-conftown the game is autowinnable, from the perspective of the conftown, it isn't.

Even taking Pooky to be conftown (which not everyone does), we've got 8 alive and only 3 conftown and only 3 eliminations.

Which means there's 4 names for 3 eliminations.

While the players inside the 4 names know that if the town eliminates the other 3 it should be a town win, the conftown don't.

So it DOES matter who.

The game's not actually an autowin for the town.

From MY perspective, it's a win if all of {STD, Milobird, DKKoba} are eliminated because from MY perspective, I know that I am town and thus, that the last scum must be in those three.

But from the objective viewpoint the conftown take, we've only got 3 eliminations for 4 suspects.

[mastina]

PoE of Pooky StD Milo Mastina Koba
Assume we elim in the PoE and get it wrong

2 conf town
PoE of 3

1 conf town PoE of 2

At that point we have all the elim data and then it’s a try hard there.

If we have to try hard at all.

Today we have 20% blind guess
Tomorrow is 25%
Day after that is 33%
Day after that is 50%

The odds that all those miss is miniscule.

That'd be great if we had four eliminations but we don't.
We have only three.
There's one way we could get a fourth but I'm not going to spell it out for the scum just in case they haven't figured that way out.

[mastina]

(And yes, if you're town and if you think you know what the way to get another elimination is: you absolutely should keep your mouth shut. You shouldn't even hint at the method. No breadcrumbing, no trying to say anything, just keep it entirely to yourself.)

[mastina]

Not that they're not being productive but I'm not sure they'd keep arguing like this if they were town about it and wouldn't just drop it.

Find a scumgame of mine where I keep arguing points along the line of these.

I'll wait.

(They don't exist.)

Meanwhile if you were to ask me I could track down within a week literally a dozen towngames where this happens.

I demand we kill mastina, because she's scum.

And I'm going to demand you eat shit for this read postgame if the town ever follows through on it.

a person who forgets to claim a n5 and n6 action is definitely viable as a partner to be the partner to a person claiming no result as godfather.

My reason was along the same lines:

◓

Team Rocket

may not perform their night action and the factional kill in conjuction unless otherwise specified.

Someone (I

thought

it was Malakittens, but I couldn't find it in her iso) fairly recently, I THINK on this day phase, quoted this and brought up that with one scum left, they can't both kill and use their action.

The two missed actions made me think it was possible they were scum realclaiming but who couldn't use their role.

While it is still possible, I have since realized that the timeline doesn't quite match up, plus, I agree with you that Milobird is looking very town by play.

What was the case on STD again.

Well, aside from this:

Today's events and last night's events make him look more suspect. Why Titus instead of SirCakez? His treestump only activates on the player's death. Treestumping Titus N3 didn't make Titus die N3; Titus was still able to vote and if she had a role, could've used it, up through N6.

In other words, using it on the known player whose role was expended instead of elsewhere is rather suspicious. Why not on SirCakez? He was clear but his role was unknown. Why not on TIL? They could've given us a third inno. Why not on WhemeStar? You get the idea. Plus, beyond that? The scum knew that MathBlade wasn't treestumped and wasn't able to be protected by DKKoba. Why was MathBlade NOT killed by the scum N6? And why did the scum know to target Titus?

Last night, aside from MathBlade, we had three conftown. Even with Malakittens not conftown on N3 (which diligent scum would be able to figure out), that's still a 50/50. How did they get it right?

I have my concerns about STD, and there's more not listed there (from other players who I read their points and didn't quote in my iso to +1 them, oops, but their points are valid and add to mine), so STD has some very ??? things going on.

...It's purely POE.

I know I'm town.
DKKoba looks more town than STD.
You look more town than STD.
Pooky is basically conftown.
And we have three conftown.

Process of elimination, STD is the highest odds of flipping scum.

[mastina]

YO MILO IS CLEAR

THE PERMA BUSDRIVE

No, Gamma rolestopped the perma busdrive, causing it to fail.

VOTE: Milobird

At work, so can't details until home, but I think that this is best.

[mastina]

and we never solved where the nokill came from

The no kill was almost assuredly scum targeting TIL in an attempt to stop the innocent on MathBlade from going through.

However, I will admit that it's at least

possible

that it was Pooky stopped from killing--that's why my order is Milobird->Pooky here, because I think that just wins us the game.

@mastina i dont care how confident u are on milo scum because if you actually read my exchange with milo d7 you would see that they are town

I agree that they look town from it.

So do you, so does Pooky, and so do I, and yet one of us has to be scum in spite of all being town.

In the battle of most town to least town, Pooky and Milobird are bottom two.

Nono, I mean like, all of the night actions so we can eliminate all the possibilities.

Gee if only someone had spent literally 3 fucking hours compiling all the night actions in the game. Wouldn't that be so helpful? Too bad nobody did that.

OH WAIT.

Not one, but TWO players did so!

You fucking speedlimmed one and are pushing for the elimination of the other.

Spoiler: Complete list of night actions, by player

Comprehensive List of Claims/Reads

, Version 2.0

T3

Pokemon:

Makuhita

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Bulk Up

Role:

extra attack for evolution

(speculation: evolution was an X-shot vig?)

Actions:

N1, did nothing? (not confirmed, but role wasn't evolved so presumed).

Notes:

(None)

Wisdom

Pokemon:

Huntail

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Dive

Role:

Nonconsecutive Follower (sees type of move target used, from Protective/Killing/Investigative/Misc.; couldn't use two nights in a row)

Actions:

Guess we'll never know, huh?

Notes:

Fuck y'all for extending the game because with Wisdom not speed-limmed we'd have already ended the game in a town win.

Alexandrite/Gamma Emerald

Pokemon:

Blissey

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Heal Pulse

Role:

Indecisive Rolestopper (prevents target from being affected by any move/role; cannot target the same player consecutively)

Actions:

N1, rolestopped mastina (granting her a 1x copy of his role); N2, rolestopped Milobird; N3, rolestopped Truth Innuendos Lies (this is the source of the failed nightkill); N4, rolestopped MathBlade; N5, ???; was nightkilled.

Notes:

(None)

WhemeStar

Pokemon:

Gardevoir

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Imprison

Role:

Combined Jailkeeper Watcher (Targets a player; target is protected but roleblocked; learns whoever visited target)

Actions:

N1, ???; N2, ???; N3, targeted PookyTheMagicalBear (nobody targeted Pooky N3), N4 ???; was nightkilled.

Notes:

(None)

The Goat/Titus

Pokemon:

Milotic->Milokaross

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Splash->Disarming Voice

Role:

Fruit Vendor->1-shot Strong-Willed Friendly Neighbor (cannot be prevented, but could be redirected)

Actions:

N1, targeted Kitty Trauma Team/Malakittens (this action's failure is unexplained) and evolved. N2, Friendly Neighbor'd Milobird. (Milobird confirmed.); N6 was nightkilled.

Notes:

(None)

chowchow

Pokemon:

Wurmple->Cascoon->Dustox (allegedly due to scum flip D1)

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Confusion

Role:

Roleblocker that doesn't stop kills

Actions:

evolved N1; evolved N2; no-action'd N3/N4/N5.

Notes:

...Oops?

Truth Innuendos Lies

Pokemon:

Absol

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Future Sight

Role:

Informed 3-shot Delayed Cop (targets a player; receives their role the next night; could use this action three times; knew there was a Godfather in the game, later revealed to be

imaginality

)

Actions:

N1,

Dwlee

; N2, investigated SleepyKrew/Valkyrie Dimension/Critter/Mathblade, received the result of them being

town

; N3, ??? (but was killed before results); N4, was nightkilled.

Notes:

Was the N3 nightkill, due to Gamma Emerald's rolestop being the only killstop effect to work that night.

Kitty Trauma Team/Malakittens

Pokemon:

Remoraid->Octillery

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

???->???

Role:

Neighborizer-permanent-Busdriver(busdrives self and neighborized target permanently)->???

Actions:

N1, ???; N2, targeted Milobird (this action failed due to Gamma Emerald's rolestop); evolved; N3, ???; N4, ???; N5, ???; N6, ???

Notes:

Was confirmed as town from

MathBlade

using a

Loyal Neighborize

on them N4.

SirCakez

Pokemon:

Solrock

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Wonder Room

Role:

Neighbor-Vigilante with

PookyTheMagicalBear

Actions:

N1, Vigged

Gypyx

.

Notes:

Was confirmed as town from

Firebringer

using a

Loyal Neighborize

on him N1.

SleepyKrew/Valkyrie Dimension/Critter/MathBlade

Pokemon:

Lotad->Lombre->Ludicolo

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Mega Drain->1x Dragon Dance->???

Role:

???->modified 1-Shot Universal Backup (chooses who to back up the role of)->1-shot Loyal Neighborizer (targets a player, forms a neighborhood with them; action fails if targeting scum)

Actions:

N4, neighborized

successfully

Kitty Trauma Team/Malakittens

, conftowning them.

Notes:

Was confirmed as town from

Truth Innuendos Lies

investigating him N2 and receiving this result N3.

Sharing the Braincell/ssbm_Kyouko

Pokemon:

Azurill

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Attract

Role:

Lovedizer (target takes one more vote to eliminate)

Actions:

N1, ???; was nightkilled.

Notes:

(None)

Firebringer

Pokemon:

Rayquaza

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Dragon Dance

Role:

1-shot Loyal Neighborizer (once in game, targets a player, forms a neighborhood with them; action fails if targeting scum)

Actions:

N1, neighborized

successfully

SirCakez

, conftowning him.

Notes:

(None)

Ralts/PookyTheMagicalBear

Pokemon:

Lunatone

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Wonder Room

Role:

Neighbor-Vigilante with

SirCakez

Actions:

N1, Vigged

Gypyx

.

Notes:

Pooky never busses D1 so is basically conftown. Even if he weren't,

Spoiler: consider this

Also, no. I'm never clearing Pooky this game without a cop clear. I just can't.

Well then you're doing exactly what scum did because this should be all you need for proof of why Pooky is town:

If Pooky literally never buses his buddies D1 doesn't that cross into a trust tell? Like instead of "I'm always town if I say I am" it's "I'm always town if I say 'vote X' and X flips scum D1"?

Ugh. I just don't believe scum target TIL which would mean hoping Gamma targeted someone else. When scum have presumably used Perish Song on someone. Like, who else would Dwlee realistically have used Perish Song on?

And if there's a town power that could direct the scum kill onto Pooky surely someone would have claimed that?

So VOTE: Pooky

There must be some games where it would have been more beneficial for Pooky to bus scum D1. If it's just a case that he's not needed to do far, then why do people place so much weight on it? "Pooky has never bussed D1" feels fine to me in a way which "Pooky never busses D1" doesn't.

There must be some games where it would have been more beneficial for Pooky to bus scum D1. If it's just a case that he's not needed to do far, then why do people place so much weight on it? "Pooky has never bussed D1" feels fine to me in a way which "Pooky never busses D1" doesn't.

You continuing to push Pooky isn’t doing you any favours. He’s practically confitown for the one shot vig thing.

Clearly not everyone agrees with you.

I just feel there's something off when people are treating it 100% confirmation of Pooky town. If other people are loudly proclaiming this every game it happens then Pooky not advertising it himself is irrelevant. Effectively town's getting an extra N1 cop inno result in a quarter or so of the games Pooky's in.

I don't know, it just annoys me we've gone from about to lim Pooky to about to lim me just because of this tell that everyone treats as gospel.

Read what imaginality is saying there and read what you're saying now and think about that for a second.

Pooky is town.

That should be enough to elevate him to conftown levels for you.

Milobird

Pokemon:

Meditite->Medichan

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Detect(only???)->???

Role:

2-shot nerfed/ORIGINAL-Motion Detector (also known as a weak-voyeur, not weak-modifier, but literally

weakened

-voyeur; may be getting an official NRG-rebranded-name soon) / Activated Bulletproof->Flavor Cop / Rolecop (depending on target's evolutionary status); checks what someone evolves into and if they’ve evolved/can still.

Actions:

N1, immunity, triggering evolution. N2, targeted Wisdom (result: two evolutions, one neighborizer one follower). N3, targeted Malakittens (result; evolved). N4, targeted STD (result, STD is a 2-evolution pokemon). N5, ???. N6, ???

Notes:

Obvtown by play, but not conftown.

Milobird where's the N5/N6?

mastina

Pokemon:

Sudowoodo

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Mimic

Role:

Reflexive Role-copier (the first player to target me, I get a one-shot copy of their move/role)->One-shot rolestopper

Actions:

N1, received a rolestop (later revealed to be Gamma Emerald's); N2, rolestopped DKKoba.

Notes:

Well I know I'm town but objectively I've technically only got circumstantial evidence clearing me between my interactions with scum, scum's interactions with me, the unlikelihood of scum having both my role and Gypyx's, and that I am out of my scum range, but *shrug*, SOME fucks still don't see me as town so make of it what you will.

Thestatusquo/DKKoba

Pokemon:

Phanpy->Donphan

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Sturdy->???

Role:

Bulletproof->Nonconsecutive Delayed modified-Rolestopper which is a form of Roleblocker (targets a player; anyone targeting that player that night is roleblocked the following night)

Actions:

N1, evolved. N2, self-targeted (this failed due to me, mastina, rolestopping them); N3, could not act; N4, targeted MathBlade (this failed due to Gamma Emerald rolestopping them); N5, couldn't act.

Notes:

Was a personal townread. Claim doesn't seem like bullshit that was made up, and doesn't seem to be a scum role, either.

Save the Dragons

Pokemon:

Mareep->Flaafy->Ampharos

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Light Screen->Growl->Cotton Spore

Role:

Protection from non-Normal(type) moves (with link to Normal-type moves)->protect from harmful moves, prioritizing non-killing moves (one action stopped/night)->treestumps a player after their death.

Actions:

N1, evolved. N2, evolved. N3, targeted

Titus

. N4, targeted MathBlade (however, this failed due to Gamma Emerald's rolestop).

Notes:

Was a townread. It felt like the same STD as I saw in Final Fantasy XIV, but today's events and last night's events make him look more suspect. Why Titus instead of SirCakez? His treestump only activates on the player's death. Treestumping Titus N3 didn't make Titus die N3; Titus was still able to vote and if she had a role, could've used it, up through N6.

In other words, using it on the known player whose role was expended instead of elsewhere is rather suspicious. Why not on SirCakez? He was clear but his role was unknown. Why not on TIL? They could've given us a third inno. Why not on WhemeStar? You get the idea. Plus, beyond that? The scum knew that MathBlade wasn't treestumped and wasn't able to be protected by DKKoba. Why was MathBlade NOT killed by the scum N6? And why did the scum know to target Titus?

Last night, aside from MathBlade, we had three conftown. Even with Malakittens not conftown on N3 (which diligent scum would be able to figure out), that's still a 50/50. How did they get it right?

I have my concerns about STD, and there's more not listed there (from other players who I read their points and didn't quote in my iso to +1 them, oops, but their points are valid and add to mine), so STD has some very ??? things going on.

I need to update this a little bit into a 3.0 version, but ^^^that is 98.5% accurate.

[mastina]

Oops I forgot that the original had a spoiler in it.
Lemme fix that post and repost it.

[mastina]

and we never solved where the nokill came from

The no kill was almost assuredly scum targeting TIL in an attempt to stop the innocent on MathBlade from going through.

However, I will admit that it's at least

possible

that it was Pooky stopped from killing--that's why my order is Milobird->Pooky here, because I think that just wins us the game.

@mastina i dont care how confident u are on milo scum because if you actually read my exchange with milo d7 you would see that they are town

I agree that they look town from it.

So do you, so does Pooky, and so do I, and yet one of us has to be scum in spite of all being town.

In the battle of most town to least town, Pooky and Milobird are bottom two.

Nono, I mean like, all of the night actions so we can eliminate all the possibilities.

Gee if only someone had spent literally 3 fucking hours compiling all the night actions in the game. Wouldn't that be so helpful? Too bad nobody did that.

OH WAIT.

Not one, but TWO players did so!

You fucking speedlimmed one and are pushing for the elimination of the other.

Spoiler: Complete list of night actions, by player

Comprehensive List of Claims/Reads

, Version 2.0

T3

Pokemon:

Makuhita

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Bulk Up

Role:

extra attack for evolution

(speculation: evolution was an X-shot vig?)

Actions:

N1, did nothing? (not confirmed, but role wasn't evolved so presumed).

Notes:

(None)

Wisdom

Pokemon:

Huntail

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Dive

Role:

Nonconsecutive Follower (sees type of move target used, from Protective/Killing/Investigative/Misc.; couldn't use two nights in a row)

Actions:

Guess we'll never know, huh?

Notes:

Fuck y'all for extending the game because with Wisdom not speed-limmed we'd have already ended the game in a town win.

Alexandrite/Gamma Emerald

Pokemon:

Blissey

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Heal Pulse

Role:

Indecisive Rolestopper (prevents target from being affected by any move/role; cannot target the same player consecutively)

Actions:

N1, rolestopped mastina (granting her a 1x copy of his role); N2, rolestopped Milobird; N3, rolestopped Truth Innuendos Lies (this is the source of the failed nightkill); N4, rolestopped MathBlade; N5, ???; was nightkilled.

Notes:

(None)

WhemeStar

Pokemon:

Gardevoir

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Imprison

Role:

Combined Jailkeeper Watcher (Targets a player; target is protected but roleblocked; learns whoever visited target)

Actions:

N1, ???; N2, ???; N3, targeted PookyTheMagicalBear (nobody targeted Pooky N3), N4 ???; was nightkilled.

Notes:

(None)

The Goat/Titus

Pokemon:

Milotic->Milokaross

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Splash->Disarming Voice

Role:

Fruit Vendor->1-shot Strong-Willed Friendly Neighbor (cannot be prevented, but could be redirected)

Actions:

N1, targeted Kitty Trauma Team/Malakittens (this action's failure is unexplained) and evolved. N2, Friendly Neighbor'd Milobird. (Milobird confirmed.); N6 was nightkilled.

Notes:

(None)

chowchow

Pokemon:

Wurmple->Cascoon->Dustox (allegedly due to scum flip D1)

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Confusion

Role:

Roleblocker that doesn't stop kills

Actions:

evolved N1; evolved N2; no-action'd N3/N4/N5.

Notes:

...Oops?

Truth Innuendos Lies

Pokemon:

Absol

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Future Sight

Role:

Informed 3-shot Delayed Cop (targets a player; receives their role the next night; could use this action three times; knew there was a Godfather in the game, later revealed to be

imaginality

)

Actions:

N1,

Dwlee

; N2, investigated SleepyKrew/Valkyrie Dimension/Critter/Mathblade, received the result of them being

town

; N3, ??? (but was killed before results); N4, was nightkilled.

Notes:

Was the N3 nightkill, due to Gamma Emerald's rolestop being the only killstop effect to work that night.

Kitty Trauma Team/Malakittens

Pokemon:

Remoraid->Octillery

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

???->???

Role:

Neighborizer-permanent-Busdriver(busdrives self and neighborized target permanently)->???

Actions:

N1, ???; N2, targeted Milobird (this action failed due to Gamma Emerald's rolestop); evolved; N3, ???; N4, ???; N5, ???; N6, ???

Notes:

Was confirmed as town from

MathBlade

using a

Loyal Neighborize

on them N4.

SirCakez

Pokemon:

Solrock

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Wonder Room

Role:

Neighbor-Vigilante with

PookyTheMagicalBear

Actions:

N1, Vigged

Gypyx

.

Notes:

Was confirmed as town from

Firebringer

using a

Loyal Neighborize

on him N1.

SleepyKrew/Valkyrie Dimension/Critter/MathBlade

Pokemon:

Lotad->Lombre->Ludicolo

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Mega Drain->1x Dragon Dance->???

Role:

???->modified 1-Shot Universal Backup (chooses who to back up the role of)->1-shot Loyal Neighborizer (targets a player, forms a neighborhood with them; action fails if targeting scum)

Actions:

N4, neighborized

successfully

Kitty Trauma Team/Malakittens

, conftowning them.

Notes:

Was confirmed as town from

Truth Innuendos Lies

investigating him N2 and receiving this result N3.

Sharing the Braincell/ssbm_Kyouko

Pokemon:

Azurill

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Attract

Role:

Lovedizer (target takes one more vote to eliminate)

Actions:

N1, ???; was nightkilled.

Notes:

(None)

Firebringer

Pokemon:

Rayquaza

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Dragon Dance

Role:

1-shot Loyal Neighborizer (once in game, targets a player, forms a neighborhood with them; action fails if targeting scum)

Actions:

N1, neighborized

successfully

SirCakez

, conftowning him.

Notes:

(None)

Ralts/PookyTheMagicalBear

Pokemon:

Lunatone

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Wonder Room

Role:

Neighbor-Vigilante with

SirCakez

Actions:

N1, Vigged

Gypyx

.

Notes:

Pooky never busses D1 so is basically conftown. Even if he weren't, Consider this:

Also, no. I'm never clearing Pooky this game without a cop clear. I just can't.

Well then you're doing exactly what scum did because this should be all you need for proof of why Pooky is town:

If Pooky literally never buses his buddies D1 doesn't that cross into a trust tell? Like instead of "I'm always town if I say I am" it's "I'm always town if I say 'vote X' and X flips scum D1"?

Ugh. I just don't believe scum target TIL which would mean hoping Gamma targeted someone else. When scum have presumably used Perish Song on someone. Like, who else would Dwlee realistically have used Perish Song on?

And if there's a town power that could direct the scum kill onto Pooky surely someone would have claimed that?

So VOTE: Pooky

There must be some games where it would have been more beneficial for Pooky to bus scum D1. If it's just a case that he's not needed to do far, then why do people place so much weight on it? "Pooky has never bussed D1" feels fine to me in a way which "Pooky never busses D1" doesn't.

There must be some games where it would have been more beneficial for Pooky to bus scum D1. If it's just a case that he's not needed to do far, then why do people place so much weight on it? "Pooky has never bussed D1" feels fine to me in a way which "Pooky never busses D1" doesn't.

You continuing to push Pooky isn’t doing you any favours. He’s practically confitown for the one shot vig thing.

Clearly not everyone agrees with you.

I just feel there's something off when people are treating it 100% confirmation of Pooky town. If other people are loudly proclaiming this every game it happens then Pooky not advertising it himself is irrelevant. Effectively town's getting an extra N1 cop inno result in a quarter or so of the games Pooky's in.

I don't know, it just annoys me we've gone from about to lim Pooky to about to lim me just because of this tell that everyone treats as gospel.

Read what imaginality is saying there and read what you're saying now and think about that for a second.

Pooky is town.

That should be enough to elevate him to conftown levels for you.

Milobird

Pokemon:

Meditite->Medichan

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Detect(only???)->???

Role:

2-shot nerfed/ORIGINAL-Motion Detector (also known as a weak-voyeur, not weak-modifier, but literally

weakened

-voyeur; may be getting an official NRG-rebranded-name soon) / Activated Bulletproof->Flavor Cop / Rolecop (depending on target's evolutionary status); checks what someone evolves into and if they’ve evolved/can still.

Actions:

N1, immunity, triggering evolution. N2, targeted Wisdom (result: two evolutions, one neighborizer one follower). N3, targeted Malakittens (result; evolved). N4, targeted STD (result, STD is a 2-evolution pokemon). N5, ???. N6, ???

Notes:

Obvtown by play, but not conftown.

Milobird where's the N5/N6?

mastina

Pokemon:

Sudowoodo

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Mimic

Role:

Reflexive Role-copier (the first player to target me, I get a one-shot copy of their move/role)->One-shot rolestopper

Actions:

N1, received a rolestop (later revealed to be Gamma Emerald's); N2, rolestopped DKKoba.

Notes:

Well I know I'm town but objectively I've technically only got circumstantial evidence clearing me between my interactions with scum, scum's interactions with me, the unlikelihood of scum having both my role and Gypyx's, and that I am out of my scum range, but *shrug*, SOME fucks still don't see me as town so make of it what you will.

Thestatusquo/DKKoba

Pokemon:

Phanpy->Donphan

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Sturdy->???

Role:

Bulletproof->Nonconsecutive Delayed modified-Rolestopper which is a form of Roleblocker (targets a player; anyone targeting that player that night is roleblocked the following night)

Actions:

N1, evolved. N2, self-targeted (this failed due to me, mastina, rolestopping them); N3, could not act; N4, targeted MathBlade (this failed due to Gamma Emerald rolestopping them); N5, couldn't act.

Notes:

Was a personal townread. Claim doesn't seem like bullshit that was made up, and doesn't seem to be a scum role, either.

Save the Dragons

Pokemon:

Mareep->Flaafy->Ampharos

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Light Screen->Growl->Cotton Spore

Role:

Protection from non-Normal(type) moves (with link to Normal-type moves)->protect from harmful moves, prioritizing non-killing moves (one action stopped/night)->treestumps a player after their death.

Actions:

N1, evolved. N2, evolved. N3, targeted

Titus

. N4, targeted MathBlade (however, this failed due to Gamma Emerald's rolestop).

Notes:

Was a townread. It felt like the same STD as I saw in Final Fantasy XIV, but today's events and last night's events make him look more suspect. Why Titus instead of SirCakez? His treestump only activates on the player's death. Treestumping Titus N3 didn't make Titus die N3; Titus was still able to vote and if she had a role, could've used it, up through N6.

In other words, using it on the known player whose role was expended instead of elsewhere is rather suspicious. Why not on SirCakez? He was clear but his role was unknown. Why not on TIL? They could've given us a third inno. Why not on WhemeStar? You get the idea. Plus, beyond that? The scum knew that MathBlade wasn't treestumped and wasn't able to be protected by DKKoba. Why was MathBlade NOT killed by the scum N6? And why did the scum know to target Titus?

Last night, aside from MathBlade, we had three conftown. Even with Malakittens not conftown on N3 (which diligent scum would be able to figure out), that's still a 50/50. How did they get it right?

I have my concerns about STD, and there's more not listed there (from other players who I read their points and didn't quote in my iso to +1 them, oops, but their points are valid and add to mine), so STD has some very ??? things going on.

I need to update this a little bit into a 3.0 version, but ^^^that is 98.5% accurate.

[mastina]

I do wanna hear out Mastina, either because they're going to embarrass themselves or show themselves to be ineffectual. Either works.

If you were expecting a case, I don't have one, outside of just POE:

SirCakez is literally confirmed town from Firebringer. This is an indisputable 100% clear.
MathBlade is literally confirmed town from TIL (

especially

since with one scum left, scum couldn't both be Pooky and try to generate a false clea on MathBlade--TIL was the nightkill on N3 unless Pooky's scum and if Pooky's scum then MB isn't and if TIL was the nightkill, then MB can't be scum because MB wouldn't nightkill the cop about to make a false innocent on him).

I am town. Now, this is apparent to so so SO many people. Like, basically the entirety of the town both living and dead looked at me and could tell, "oh yeah, mastina's town here".

Spoiler: That's not an exaggeration, either.

you might wanna change your vote though because I just iso'd you and it's currently on mastina

Sharing the Braincell had me as "not a good vote".

Well mastina and you both seem to be playing eerily similar to OMB and mastina was right on you there, so I'm going to listen this time as it would've worked out better last time if I'd listened. From the get go.

Townie town townies:
Milobird
Mastina

Not today satan:
TIL (will trust mastina on this)

ssbm, the N1 nightkill, had me as

such

a strong townread that ssbm was

willing to sheep my read on a slot

.

(snipping this)

locktown

T3 had me as locktown.

Pokemon im carrying around:
SirCakez (nicknamed: cakeboi), T3 (nicknamed: TreeFifty), Save the Dragons (nickname: WonderWeasel), WhemeStar (nicknamed: KickStar), dkkoba (nicknamed: Lastresort), Milobird (nicknamed: KobraBell)

Box 1:
mastina, wisdom, gamma emerald, Truth Innuendo Lies

Firebringer had me as more town than not.

I don’t think Gamma’s ever scum here or Mastina. Because both of them helped play a major role in flipping Dwelee.

~I

Truth Innocent Lies had me as "never scum". (I could probably find more, even better, 'mastina is town' posts from TIL but I was lazy.)

I townread Wheme and Imaginality and probably chowchow as well and dont see why you townread Mala but otherwise your solving is correct, mastina

Wisdom had me as outside the POE/solve. It's hard for me to find a read beyond that, but I was not a scumread of his which is itself saying something important.

Critter I know who you are with like 95% certainty and you’re probably town but for the love of god you need to listen to consensus on me/mastina/Nancy

Well the check is in already, there was a good chunk of people suspecting skrew, and critter has continually gone after me/mastina/Nancy which is all-the-nope.

Mastina is town for role stuff

Gamma Emerald had me as town.

chowchow had me as town because I wouldn't have an egg on my face if pushing a chowchow elimination was my wincon (scum); egg on face is reserved for pushing chowchow as town.

i don't really think it's mastina

do you have reads or a better push besides mastina

Strong Town:
mastina

Save the Dragons had me as town.

mastina scum has no conviction behind her reads/pushes

scum mastina would be like a 8 sigma event

lol wut

mastina is so far out of her scum range she couldn't find her way back to it with GPS

pooky milo mastina are town af

pooky milo mastina v town

Pooky,

one of the scumspects

, who has every reason to keep me in the POE, has me as town.

i could care less if mastina is scum because at least mastina gave a shit about the game and can win for all i care + why the fuck does mastina kill mala

@milo can you please swear to me u wont vote mastina in f4 btw if im flipped here

ok maybe im conf biasing myself but i need to really double check things but
MILO IF I SAY BY EOD TODAY AND IM LIMMED THAT ITS NOT MASTINA FOR SURE WE AINT VOTING MASTINA U GOT IT ? U VOTE THE FK OUT OF POOKY

also if its mastina then i deserve the big clown award bc honestly i just am not voting there ever

we do not ever elim mastina or pooky this game. ever.

i should probably inform you that the reason i townread you and mastina - the way the role was played - was very much stronger on mastina due to the fact their d1 play showed it.

so excuse me if im starting to get a little suspicious of the cheap excuses you're trying to throw at mastina without holistically analyzing her play while having the highest post count in the game which points to you 2 being aware of the gamestate in the entirety.

fun fact if youre scum here - you fucked up majorly by opening your mouth against mastina. should have stfu and let std and I go down and then win in limlo.

why is math alive if mastina is scum?

This is by far not a complete list of quotes from DKKoba for why I am town but DKKoba, one of

the

biggest names in the POE, has me as town, so much so, that they literally went after Pooky before going after me. While they have wavered time from time because DKKoba is doing DKKoba things and DKKoba in a mafia game is like the manifestation of a person with severe ADHD (this is not intended as any form of insult btw, just observation of behavioral trait because DKKoba's playstyle reminds me of a bunch of people with ADHD and how they go about things) and part of that is forgetting why you were townreading someone literally 5 minutes after you townread them, but overall DKKoba has me as town in spite of them having strong incentive to not.

(Special callout:

MathBlade:

remember when Gamma Emerald said to fucking listen to him on me being town? Remember how you have then proceeded to fucking ignore that the entire fucking game?)

That's basically ELEVEN PLAYER SLOTS townreading me this game. 11/16. (21 players; I am one of them, so 20. I am excluding scum's reads from this, which means -4, thus: 16 total.) Literally over half the town has basically said, "oh yeah, mastina's town here". In fact it's MORE than half. It's 68.75% of the town. Over 2/3rds of the town. (now, granted: one of Pooky/Koba

could

be scum, which would bring the total down to 10/15, but that's still 2/3rds of the town even if so.)

There's a damn. fucking. good. reason. So many town players have townread me--it's because this is genuinely something that

even peak scumastina

couldn't pull off. I mean it. Dead serious. I legit have never, ever, ever had a scumgame where I've come

close

to what I've done in this game. No, seriously. I could even show you peak scumastina and prove it if you wanted me to, but I genuinely

cannot

scum this well even if I am at peak scumastina levels.

...Which, by the way.

As far as I know: I've never ever managed to achieve in

literally three years

. It's been over THREE years since I've had a good scumgame. The current scumastina is SO ridiculously obviously scum that it's not even funny.

I didn't even grab all the reasons for why I am town here. I could quote the reasons from all of the dead town for WHY this is me as town, not to mention all the reasons from Pooky that apply and all the reasons from DKKoba that apply.

I could even quote the dead scum.

I could even quote my iso.

All that aside from my role and being basically mod-spewed as conftown here.

Suffice to say: I shouldn't

really

need to case myself for why I am town here because literally anyone who has played with me should fucking know this is my towngame.

And frankly, MathBlade?

The fact that you've played with me for fucking YEARS and you still. fucking. think. that this could be my scumgame? Is frankly? Appalling. You absolutely

should

fucking know better than this shit and I WILL rub it in your face EVERY time we play together in the future. I will quote this fucking game and this fucking post and YOUR fucking shitty-ass tunnel on me to let you know, to remind you: when literally everyone can tell that I am town, YOU couldn't.

Still tho.

If need be, I WILL do that effort, later.


DKKoba here is town in just about every single way possible. Like, they've been town from what they've done, their role, their claim, their usage, their belief, their excitement in thinking they did something useful N2 (even if it turned out they hadn't), they aren't wrong in saying they've townslipped in ways I don't think scum would, basically, they are the slot who has the most reason out of any slot to be town.

Plus, even if they didn't--the chance at them getting another killstop off tonight is enough where even if they

weren't

this town, I'd want them alive tomorrow just in case.

Pooky has a lot less going for him to be town. It basically does boil down to, Pooky vigged scum N1, and the scum scumplained that we conftowned him for it. I still believe that the scumplaining was scumplaining. implosion wasn't caught until

after

he had claimed, and fucked up his claim. But the scumplaining happened in the same post

as

his claim. Which meant that,

at the time

, implosion didn't know he was fucked; implosion didn't know he was doomed to die. So the scumplaining I stick by it being more likely to be just that, scumplaining that they can't mislim Pooky.
I'll admit that if it's not Milobird here, then sure, yeah, Pooky basically tops the charts for chances at being scum.

But I genuinely just think it's Milobird here.
notscience has looked town by play; Bell has looked town by play; Bell has been outside the range of what his scum meta has been; their role is likely real and genuine and their usage of it looks town.

But everyone else, I just think is

more

town, and

someone

needs to be scum which is why I think it's just Milobird with Bell/notscience being randomly-playing-very-good scum. Wouldn't be the first game where a scum player with no history of playing good suddenly started playing good. (I just finished a game where Morning Tweet powerwolfed randomly for no good reason.)

[mastina]

DKKoba is doing DKKoba things and DKKoba in a mafia game is like the manifestation of a person with severe ADHD (this is not intended as any form of insult btw, just observation of behavioral trait because DKKoba's playstyle reminds me of a bunch of people with ADHD and how they go about things) and part of that is forgetting why you were townreading someone literally 5 minutes after you townread them

(btw

DKKoba

, just in case you don't read my wall/the spoiler, figured you'd get a laugh out of this, which I said within)

[mastina]

(I should specify that I myself have minor ADHD but I know a LOT of people with

severe

ADHD and DKKoba's posting style legit reminds me of those folks.)

[mastina]

honestly like a large incriminating factor for pooky scum is that cakez is still alive here lmao

I mean, definitely possible.

MathBlade being alive should hard-spew me as town (like, MathBlade should

know

that I respect his competency enough to nightkill him when he's right because

I literally did that the last time I was scum in a game with him

so the fact that MathBlade ISN'T dead should prove that I'm town here), but beyond that, Titus/SirCakez/Malakittens all have about equal reasons to die in about any order.

I'll definitely be investigating that further, obviously.

I will say tho that devil's advocate, you-as-scum can't exactly nightkill the player you intend to claim you were protecting, but obviously, the counter to said devil's advocate argument is that you could've just killed SirCakez and claimed a protection on either Titus or MathBlade.

[mastina]

(Btw I did just now have a paranoia thought that I

really

want to express, but I legit genuinely think that while voicing said paranoia thought would be a

necessity

IF it were true, if it wasn't true I absolutely shouldn't. So I'm going to PM it to the mod instead to put it on the record.)

[mastina]

(Btw I did just now have a paranoia thought that I

really

want to express, but I legit genuinely think that while voicing said paranoia thought would be a

necessity

IF it were true, if it wasn't true I absolutely shouldn't. So I'm going to PM it to the mod instead to put it on the record.)

Wait, nevermind. I can actually address this in-thread safely.

(Btw I did just now have a paranoia thought that I

really

want to express, but I legit genuinely think that while voicing said paranoia thought would be a

necessity

IF it were true, if it wasn't true I absolutely shouldn't. So I'm going to PM it to the mod instead to put it on the record.)

The horrifying thought I had was:

"What if Firebringer lied about his innocent result, in spite of not lying about his role?"

I.e., what if Firebringer did not in fact loyal neighborize SirCakez?

But I realized there's a stupidly simple way to verify this:

PookyTheMagicalBear:

Did SirCakez mention getting neighborized in your PT with him?

'Cause if so, bam, instant 100% completely undeniable proof that he is in fact still conftown and my paranoia was unfounded. (The basis of this paranoia was basically, well, basically everyone on D1 including me thought that SirCakez was scum. And that Firebringer has, previously, had a history of not being entirely truthful in his claims. But this paranoia theory thing is ridiculously easy to shut down. If the only source of proof of the claim came from Firebringer, then the paranoia would be viable, but if SirCakez at literally any time gave proof/evidence of his PT with Firebringer then obviously, he's conftown.)

[mastina]

PookyTheMagicalBear: Did SirCakez mention getting neighborized in your PT with him?

yea he said firebringer neighborized him and he's gonna tell firebringer that he vigged gypyx and see if he dies at night

Good to have, paranoia addressed and 100% shut down, SirCakez is indeed conftown. Thanks. <3

[mastina]

*surprised pikachu*
STD flipped town? Who’d have thought

I mean you say that but I can do it too;
*surprised pikachu*
Wisdom flipped town? Who’d have thought?

(I did. Very strongly so. And the game would literally be fucking over by now if you hadn't.)

[mastina]

@mastina why did you use your "rolestop" on me?

Because you were a hardclaimed rolestopper on D2. (Be glad I didn't use it on Dwlee since I genuinely was considering it since they were basically hardclaiming rolestopper on D2.)

I knew that there wouldn't be an infinite rolestopper loop, but with my role being one-shot, I figured that one night of having an unstoppable rolestopper would be good. Either scum would try to kill you (and thus, I would save your life), or you would successfully rolestop a player that scum attempted to kill (and thus, YOU would save their life). Obviously, come D3, I wouldn't know which was which, we'd have to as a town collectively figure out if scum tried to roleblock you and kill your save or if scum tried to kill you, but I thought it was genuinely the optimal move to make given your outted rolestopper claim on D2.

Now, granted: I knew there was a chance of some shenanigans going on in your claim, but I still figured that

even if so

, scum

still

might kill or roleblock you, making you a good rolestop even IF you were lying on your claim. (How was I to know you were planning on self-targeting? That's not a thing protective roles typically can do.)

[mastina]

because milo is so blatantly town here

Everyone

is blatantly town since chowchow's death (and even then, while *I* personally couldn't tell that chowchow was blatantly town, plenty of others did).

Like, I am dead serious: the players who look the least town are literally the conftown players, when it comes to play.
...I probably need to explain what I mean by that so it's not misconstrued as shading the conftown players, hmm, how do I word this so the point gets across?
SirCakez is conftown, 100% confirmed as town beyond any shadow of a doubt. He

cannot

be scum. imaginality was the scum Godfather, and Gypyx was the scum universal backup. SirCakez was loyal neighborized N1, Firebringer hard-claimed this and per Pooky, SirCakez claimed this neighborhood in their PT and thus, it cannot be a fabrication, meaning that SirCakez is 100% beyond any shadow of a doubt, town.

...Yet in spite of being conftown, he legit genuinely doesn't

look

town by play. He IS town. He's literally mod-confirmed town. But if you didn't KNOW he was mod-confirmed town, looking at his iso, you'd think he'd top the charts as being a scum candidate by play.

MathBlade is conftown, 100% confirmed as town beyond any shadow of a doubt. He

cannot

be scum. imaginality was the scum Godfather, and Gypyx was the scum universal backup. Even

if

MathBlade could generate a false-innocent on himself

in spite

of those roles, evidence points to him not doing so. TIL investigated MathBlade N2. TIL confirmed MathBlade as town D4. There was a missing kill N3, and the only possible explanations for it are "Pooky is scum and was jailkept" or "scum tried to kill TIL to deny the MathBlade clear from coming through".

If Pooky is scum, then MathBlade by definition could not be scum given one scum left.
If Pooky isn't scum, then MathBlade cannot be scum because MathBlade, as scum, does not kill the cop when the cop is about to generate a false innocent on him.

So regardless, MathBlade is conftown here.

And yet, while MathBlade looks

decent

in iso and looks

reasonably

okay as town, compared to the non-conftown players, MathBlade doesn't look nearly as town as they do by play. He IS town. He's literally mod-confirmed town. But if you didn't KNOW he was mod-confirmed town, looking at his iso, you'd think that he'd be among the least-town slots by play.

And yet the conftown are, indeed, conftown--meaning that one of the slots who looks more town than the conftown by play...
...Is, in spite of looking more town than literal conftown by play...
...Not actually town, and in fact, is just scum who looks really damn town by play.

STD looked town by play, but was in the POE.
You look town by play, but are in the POE.
I am town by play, but am in the POE.
Pooky looks town by play, but is in the POE.
Milobird looks town by play, but is in the POE.

Everyone looks town by play--but one of the ones in the POE cannot be town and must in fact actually be scum.

And of the slots who look town by play but are in the POE, Milobird is the slot that I think has the highest chance of being scum.

[mastina]

I do want to talk to Math Milo and Mastina

I want you to paraphrase the PT because you have a decent chance of not being around on D9 if we miss on the lim today.

There's nothing which could be contained within which strengthen DKKoba's viewpoints, but it could influence

mine

.

Does anyone have all the N1 claimed actions?

I want to make a version 3.0 of this, but for N1 actions, even the 2.0 version should be accurate:

Spoiler: Complete list of night actions, by player

Comprehensive List of Claims/Reads

, Version 2.0

T3

Pokemon:

Makuhita

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Bulk Up

Role:

extra attack for evolution

(speculation: evolution was an X-shot vig?)

Actions:

N1, did nothing? (not confirmed, but role wasn't evolved so presumed).

Notes:

(None)

Wisdom

Pokemon:

Huntail

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Dive

Role:

Nonconsecutive Follower (sees type of move target used, from Protective/Killing/Investigative/Misc.; couldn't use two nights in a row)

Actions:

Guess we'll never know, huh?

Notes:

Fuck y'all for extending the game because with Wisdom not speed-limmed we'd have already ended the game in a town win.

Alexandrite/Gamma Emerald

Pokemon:

Blissey

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Heal Pulse

Role:

Indecisive Rolestopper (prevents target from being affected by any move/role; cannot target the same player consecutively)

Actions:

N1, rolestopped mastina (granting her a 1x copy of his role); N2, rolestopped Milobird; N3, rolestopped Truth Innuendos Lies (this is the source of the failed nightkill); N4, rolestopped MathBlade; N5, ???; was nightkilled.

Notes:

(None)

WhemeStar

Pokemon:

Gardevoir

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Imprison

Role:

Combined Jailkeeper Watcher (Targets a player; target is protected but roleblocked; learns whoever visited target)

Actions:

N1, ???; N2, ???; N3, targeted PookyTheMagicalBear (nobody targeted Pooky N3), N4 ???; was nightkilled.

Notes:

(None)

The Goat/Titus

Pokemon:

Milotic->Milokaross

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Splash->Disarming Voice

Role:

Fruit Vendor->1-shot Strong-Willed Friendly Neighbor (cannot be prevented, but could be redirected)

Actions:

N1, targeted Kitty Trauma Team/Malakittens (this action's failure is unexplained) and evolved. N2, Friendly Neighbor'd Milobird. (Milobird confirmed.); N6 was nightkilled.

Notes:

(None)

chowchow

Pokemon:

Wurmple->Cascoon->Dustox (allegedly due to scum flip D1)

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Confusion

Role:

Roleblocker that doesn't stop kills

Actions:

evolved N1; evolved N2; no-action'd N3/N4/N5.

Notes:

...Oops?

Truth Innuendos Lies

Pokemon:

Absol

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Future Sight

Role:

Informed 3-shot Delayed Cop (targets a player; receives their role the next night; could use this action three times; knew there was a Godfather in the game, later revealed to be

imaginality

)

Actions:

N1,

Dwlee

; N2, investigated SleepyKrew/Valkyrie Dimension/Critter/Mathblade, received the result of them being

town

; N3, ??? (but was killed before results); N4, was nightkilled.

Notes:

Was the N3 nightkill, due to Gamma Emerald's rolestop being the only killstop effect to work that night.

Kitty Trauma Team/Malakittens

Pokemon:

Remoraid->Octillery

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

???->???

Role:

Neighborizer-permanent-Busdriver(busdrives self and neighborized target permanently)->???

Actions:

N1, ???; N2, targeted Milobird (this action failed due to Gamma Emerald's rolestop); evolved; N3, ???; N4, ???; N5, ???; N6, ???

Notes:

Was confirmed as town from

MathBlade

using a

Loyal Neighborize

on them N4.

SirCakez

Pokemon:

Solrock

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Wonder Room

Role:

Neighbor-Vigilante with

PookyTheMagicalBear

Actions:

N1, Vigged

Gypyx

.

Notes:

Was confirmed as town from

Firebringer

using a

Loyal Neighborize

on him N1.

SleepyKrew/Valkyrie Dimension/Critter/MathBlade

Pokemon:

Lotad->Lombre->Ludicolo

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Mega Drain->1x Dragon Dance->???

Role:

???->modified 1-Shot Universal Backup (chooses who to back up the role of)->1-shot Loyal Neighborizer (targets a player, forms a neighborhood with them; action fails if targeting scum)

Actions:

N4, neighborized

successfully

Kitty Trauma Team/Malakittens

, conftowning them.

Notes:

Was confirmed as town from

Truth Innuendos Lies

investigating him N2 and receiving this result N3.

Sharing the Braincell/ssbm_Kyouko

Pokemon:

Azurill

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Attract

Role:

Lovedizer (target takes one more vote to eliminate)

Actions:

N1, ???; was nightkilled.

Notes:

(None)

Firebringer

Pokemon:

Rayquaza

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Dragon Dance

Role:

1-shot Loyal Neighborizer (once in game, targets a player, forms a neighborhood with them; action fails if targeting scum)

Actions:

N1, neighborized

successfully

SirCakez

, conftowning him.

Notes:

(None)

Ralts/PookyTheMagicalBear

Pokemon:

Lunatone

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Wonder Room

Role:

Neighbor-Vigilante with

SirCakez

Actions:

N1, Vigged

Gypyx

.

Notes:

Pooky never busses D1 so is basically conftown. Even if he weren't, Consider this:

Also, no. I'm never clearing Pooky this game without a cop clear. I just can't.

Well then you're doing exactly what scum did because this should be all you need for proof of why Pooky is town:

If Pooky literally never buses his buddies D1 doesn't that cross into a trust tell? Like instead of "I'm always town if I say I am" it's "I'm always town if I say 'vote X' and X flips scum D1"?

Ugh. I just don't believe scum target TIL which would mean hoping Gamma targeted someone else. When scum have presumably used Perish Song on someone. Like, who else would Dwlee realistically have used Perish Song on?

And if there's a town power that could direct the scum kill onto Pooky surely someone would have claimed that?

So VOTE: Pooky

There must be some games where it would have been more beneficial for Pooky to bus scum D1. If it's just a case that he's not needed to do far, then why do people place so much weight on it? "Pooky has never bussed D1" feels fine to me in a way which "Pooky never busses D1" doesn't.

There must be some games where it would have been more beneficial for Pooky to bus scum D1. If it's just a case that he's not needed to do far, then why do people place so much weight on it? "Pooky has never bussed D1" feels fine to me in a way which "Pooky never busses D1" doesn't.

You continuing to push Pooky isn’t doing you any favours. He’s practically confitown for the one shot vig thing.

Clearly not everyone agrees with you.

I just feel there's something off when people are treating it 100% confirmation of Pooky town. If other people are loudly proclaiming this every game it happens then Pooky not advertising it himself is irrelevant. Effectively town's getting an extra N1 cop inno result in a quarter or so of the games Pooky's in.

I don't know, it just annoys me we've gone from about to lim Pooky to about to lim me just because of this tell that everyone treats as gospel.

Read what imaginality is saying there and read what you're saying now and think about that for a second.

Pooky is town.

That should be enough to elevate him to conftown levels for you.

Milobird

Pokemon:

Meditite->Medichan

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Detect(only???)->???

Role:

2-shot nerfed/ORIGINAL-Motion Detector (also known as a weak-voyeur, not weak-modifier, but literally

weakened

-voyeur; may be getting an official NRG-rebranded-name soon) / Activated Bulletproof->Flavor Cop / Rolecop (depending on target's evolutionary status); checks what someone evolves into and if they’ve evolved/can still.

Actions:

N1, immunity, triggering evolution. N2, targeted Wisdom (result: two evolutions, one neighborizer one follower). N3, targeted Malakittens (result; evolved). N4, targeted STD (result, STD is a 2-evolution pokemon). N5, ???. N6, ???

Notes:

Obvtown by play, but not conftown.

Milobird where's the N5/N6?

mastina

Pokemon:

Sudowoodo

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Mimic

Role:

Reflexive Role-copier (the first player to target me, I get a one-shot copy of their move/role)->One-shot rolestopper

Actions:

N1, received a rolestop (later revealed to be Gamma Emerald's); N2, rolestopped DKKoba.

Notes:

Well I know I'm town but objectively I've technically only got circumstantial evidence clearing me between my interactions with scum, scum's interactions with me, the unlikelihood of scum having both my role and Gypyx's, and that I am out of my scum range, but *shrug*, SOME fucks still don't see me as town so make of it what you will.

Thestatusquo/DKKoba

Pokemon:

Phanpy->Donphan

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Sturdy->???

Role:

Bulletproof->Nonconsecutive Delayed modified-Rolestopper which is a form of Roleblocker (targets a player; anyone targeting that player that night is roleblocked the following night)

Actions:

N1, evolved. N2, self-targeted (this failed due to me, mastina, rolestopping them); N3, could not act; N4, targeted MathBlade (this failed due to Gamma Emerald rolestopping them); N5, couldn't act.

Notes:

Was a personal townread. Claim doesn't seem like bullshit that was made up, and doesn't seem to be a scum role, either.

Save the Dragons

Pokemon:

Mareep->Flaafy->Ampharos

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Light Screen->Growl->Cotton Spore

Role:

Protection from non-Normal(type) moves (with link to Normal-type moves)->protect from harmful moves, prioritizing non-killing moves (one action stopped/night)->treestumps a player after their death.

Actions:

N1, evolved. N2, evolved. N3, targeted

Titus

. N4, targeted MathBlade (however, this failed due to Gamma Emerald's rolestop).

Notes:

Was a townread. It felt like the same STD as I saw in Final Fantasy XIV, but today's events and last night's events make him look more suspect. Why Titus instead of SirCakez? His treestump only activates on the player's death. Treestumping Titus N3 didn't make Titus die N3; Titus was still able to vote and if she had a role, could've used it, up through N6.

In other words, using it on the known player whose role was expended instead of elsewhere is rather suspicious. Why not on SirCakez? He was clear but his role was unknown. Why not on TIL? They could've given us a third inno. Why not on WhemeStar? You get the idea. Plus, beyond that? The scum knew that MathBlade wasn't treestumped and wasn't able to be protected by DKKoba. Why was MathBlade NOT killed by the scum N6? And why did the scum know to target Titus?

Last night, aside from MathBlade, we had three conftown. Even with Malakittens not conftown on N3 (which diligent scum would be able to figure out), that's still a 50/50. How did they get it right?

I have my concerns about STD, and there's more not listed there (from other players who I read their points and didn't quote in my iso to +1 them, oops, but their points are valid and add to mine), so STD has some very ??? things going on.

I need to update this a little bit into a 3.0 version, but ^^^that is 98.5% accurate.

[mastina]

Did you ever evolve Mastina?

mastina is sudowoodo which has no evolution

^

i realized that the last scum likely is a rolecop so thats unreasonable

Funny you mention the last scum being a rolecop, DKKoba.

Because as it so happens, we have a claimed rolecop!

Milobird

Pokemon:

Meditite->Medichan

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Detect(only???)->???

Role:

2-shot nerfed/ORIGINAL-Motion Detector (also known as a weak-voyeur, not weak-modifier, but literally

weakened

-voyeur; may be getting an official NRG-rebranded-name soon) / Activated Bulletproof->Flavor Cop / Rolecop (depending on target's evolutionary status); checks what someone evolves into and if they’ve evolved/can still.

Actions:

N1, immunity, triggering evolution. N2, targeted Wisdom (result: two evolutions, one neighborizer one follower). N3, targeted Malakittens (result; evolved). N4, targeted STD (result, STD is a 2-evolution pokemon).

It's the slot that I think is the least-town of the non-conftown!

[mastina]

there's no way he suddenly went from "unable to post as scum" to "top posting god scum bell"

Bell has ~62/200 posts on page one of their iso (altho admittedly, possibly more if some of the unsigned ones were him but even counting those it'd be in the ~75/200 range).

On page two, it's ~71/200.
Bringing the total up to ~136/400 (possibly ~146/400).

On page three, it's ~63/200.
Bringing the total up to ~199/600 (possibly 209/600).

On page four, it's ~35/82.

Bringing the total up to 234/682. (Possibly 244/682.)

You

say

Bell is unable to post as scum, but the last time I saw Bell as scum, the amount is actually comparable to here.

Bell had 374 posts as scum in Pooky v Flavor Leaf.
You DO remember that that was Bell as SCUM, right?
Bell had 374 posts in Pooky v Flavor Leaf, in spite of being eliminated day phases earlier.

Bell has

less posts in this game

than he did in a game

he was eliminated in half the game earlier

as scum.

The majority of the posts from Milobird have been notscience.

[mastina]

there's no way he suddenly went from "unable to post as scum" to "top posting god scum bell"

Bell has ~62/200 posts on page one of their iso (altho admittedly, possibly more if some of the unsigned ones were him but even counting those it'd be in the ~75/200 range).

On page two, it's ~71/200.
Bringing the total up to ~136/400 (possibly ~146/400).

On page three, it's ~63/200.
Bringing the total up to ~199/600 (possibly 209/600).

On page four, it's ~35/82.

Bringing the total up to 234/682. (Possibly 244/682.)

You

say

Bell is unable to post as scum, but the last time I saw Bell as scum, the amount is actually comparable to here.

Bell had 374 posts as scum in Pooky v Flavor Leaf.
You DO remember that that was Bell as SCUM, right?
Bell had 374 posts in Pooky v Flavor Leaf, in spite of being eliminated day phases earlier.

Bell has

less posts in this game

than he did in a game

he was eliminated in half the game earlier

as scum.

The majority of the posts from Milobird have been notscience.

Wait it's even worse than that.

This is DAY PHASE NUMBER EIGHT.
In DAY PHASE NUMBER EIGHT, Bell has ~240-260 posts. Maybe slightly more, depends on just how many of the unsigned posts were Bell not signing, I could've lost count, but this is still his

approximate

posting rate in this game. He has posted

about

250 times in 8 days. Give or take.

In the game YOU WERE THE IC IN, Pooky, Bell,

as scum

, had

350 posts

in two day phases

.

Bell, as scum in that game, had more posts in

two days

than he has in

the entirety of this game

.

I get that Bell looks town.
But he looks a lot less town than you're giving him credit for.

[mastina]

mastina never votes for koba

I mean I'm not going to override the conftown and tomorrow between Titus and the surviving conftown we're going to have two.

I will

do research

, and I will

advise

the conftown based off of my research. I will share my findings, I will give my opinions, I will tell them what I see and what I think. But I will not vote against them (unless of course they stupidly decide that the scum is me, obv).

[mastina]

I kinda want to elim Koba for policy
But I don’t wanna elim Koba so we can save SirCakez as Titus and Cakez maybe better together.
Thoughts?

I mean I don't want to eliminate Koba today so that we have a chance at saving conftown.
I'm

receptive

to it tomorrow, after doing the research. I'll ultimately side with the conftown on who to vote, after doing the research and advising them, giving my thoughts based on the research. (After all, while I never do as much work as I

want

to do, I always still DO do work.)

[mastina]

I kinda want to elim Koba for policy
But I don’t wanna elim Koba so we can save SirCakez as Titus and Cakez maybe better together.
Thoughts?

I mean I don't want to eliminate Koba today so that we have a chance at saving conftown.
I'm

receptive

to it tomorrow, after doing the research. I'll ultimately side with the conftown on who to vote, after doing the research and advising them, giving my thoughts based on the research. (After all, while I never do as much work as I

want

to do, I always still DO do work.)

mastina never votes for koba

I mean I'm not going to override the conftown and tomorrow between Titus and the surviving conftown we're going to have two.

I will

do research

, and I will

advise

the conftown based off of my research. I will share my findings, I will give my opinions, I will tell them what I see and what I think. But I will not vote against them (unless of course they stupidly decide that the scum is me, obv).

Combining ^^^these with pagetopping this:

there's no way he suddenly went from "unable to post as scum" to "top posting god scum bell"

Bell has ~62/200 posts on page one of their iso (altho admittedly, possibly more if some of the unsigned ones were him but even counting those it'd be in the ~75/200 range).

On page two, it's ~71/200.
Bringing the total up to ~136/400 (possibly ~146/400).

On page three, it's ~63/200.
Bringing the total up to ~199/600 (possibly 209/600).

On page four, it's ~35/82.

Bringing the total up to 234/682. (Possibly 244/682.)

You

say

Bell is unable to post as scum, but the last time I saw Bell as scum, the amount is actually comparable to here.

Bell had 374 posts as scum in Pooky v Flavor Leaf.
You DO remember that that was Bell as SCUM, right?
Bell had 374 posts in Pooky v Flavor Leaf, in spite of being eliminated day phases earlier.

Bell has

less posts in this game

than he did in a game

he was eliminated in half the game earlier

as scum.

The majority of the posts from Milobird have been notscience.

Wait it's even worse than that.

This is DAY PHASE NUMBER EIGHT.
In DAY PHASE NUMBER EIGHT, Bell has ~240-260 posts. Maybe slightly more, depends on just how many of the unsigned posts were Bell not signing, I could've lost count, but this is still his

approximate

posting rate in this game. He has posted

about

250 times in 8 days. Give or take.

In the game YOU WERE THE IC IN, Pooky, Bell,

as scum

, had

350 posts

in two day phases

.

Bell, as scum in that game, had more posts in

two days

than he has in

the entirety of this game

.

I get that Bell looks town.
But he looks a lot less town than you're giving him credit for.

and we never solved where the nokill came from

The no kill was almost assuredly scum targeting TIL in an attempt to stop the innocent on MathBlade from going through.

However, I will admit that it's at least

possible

that it was Pooky stopped from killing--that's why my order is Milobird->Pooky here, because I think that just wins us the game.

@mastina i dont care how confident u are on milo scum because if you actually read my exchange with milo d7 you would see that they are town

I agree that they look town from it.

So do you, so does Pooky, and so do I, and yet one of us has to be scum in spite of all being town.

In the battle of most town to least town, Pooky and Milobird are bottom two.

I do wanna hear out Mastina, either because they're going to embarrass themselves or show themselves to be ineffectual. Either works.

If you were expecting a case, I don't have one, outside of just POE:

SirCakez is literally confirmed town from Firebringer. This is an indisputable 100% clear.
MathBlade is literally confirmed town from TIL (

especially

since with one scum left, scum couldn't both be Pooky and try to generate a false clea on MathBlade--TIL was the nightkill on N3 unless Pooky's scum and if Pooky's scum then MB isn't and if TIL was the nightkill, then MB can't be scum because MB wouldn't nightkill the cop about to make a false innocent on him).

DKKoba here is town in just about every single way possible. Like, they've been town from what they've done, their role, their claim, their usage, their belief, their excitement in thinking they did something useful N2 (even if it turned out they hadn't), they aren't wrong in saying they've townslipped in ways I don't think scum would, basically, they are the slot who has the most reason out of any slot to be town.

Plus, even if they didn't--the chance at them getting another killstop off tonight is enough where even if they

weren't

this town, I'd want them alive tomorrow just in case.

Pooky has a lot less going for him to be town. It basically does boil down to, Pooky vigged scum N1, and the scum scumplained that we conftowned him for it. I still believe that the scumplaining was scumplaining. implosion wasn't caught until

after

he had claimed, and fucked up his claim. But the scumplaining happened in the same post

as

his claim. Which meant that,

at the time

, implosion didn't know he was fucked; implosion didn't know he was doomed to die. So the scumplaining I stick by it being more likely to be just that, scumplaining that they can't mislim Pooky.
I'll admit that if it's not Milobird here, then sure, yeah, Pooky basically tops the charts for chances at being scum.

But I genuinely just think it's Milobird here.
notscience has looked town by play; Bell has looked town by play; Bell has been outside the range of what his scum meta has been; their role is likely real and genuine and their usage of it looks town.

But everyone else, I just think is

more

town, and

someone

needs to be scum which is why I think it's just Milobird with Bell/notscience being randomly-playing-very-good scum. Wouldn't be the first game where a scum player with no history of playing good suddenly started playing good. (I just finished a game where Morning Tweet powerwolfed randomly for no good reason.)

[mastina]

I kinda want to elim Koba for policy
But I don’t wanna elim Koba so we can save SirCakez as Titus and Cakez maybe better together.
Thoughts?

I mean I don't want to eliminate Koba today so that we have a chance at saving conftown.
I'm

receptive

to it tomorrow, after doing the research. I'll ultimately side with the conftown on who to vote, after doing the research and advising them, giving my thoughts based on the research. (After all, while I never do as much work as I

want

to do, I always still DO do work.)

mastina never votes for koba

I mean I'm not going to override the conftown and tomorrow between Titus and the surviving conftown we're going to have two.

I will

do research

, and I will

advise

the conftown based off of my research. I will share my findings, I will give my opinions, I will tell them what I see and what I think. But I will not vote against them (unless of course they stupidly decide that the scum is me, obv).

Combining ^^^these with pagetopping this:

there's no way he suddenly went from "unable to post as scum" to "top posting god scum bell"

Bell has ~62/200 posts on page one of their iso (altho admittedly, possibly more if some of the unsigned ones were him but even counting those it'd be in the ~75/200 range).

On page two, it's ~71/200.
Bringing the total up to ~136/400 (possibly ~146/400).

On page three, it's ~63/200.
Bringing the total up to ~199/600 (possibly 209/600).

On page four, it's ~35/82.

Bringing the total up to 234/682. (Possibly 244/682.)

You

say

Bell is unable to post as scum, but the last time I saw Bell as scum, the amount is actually comparable to here.

Bell had 374 posts as scum in Pooky v Flavor Leaf.
You DO remember that that was Bell as SCUM, right?
Bell had 374 posts in Pooky v Flavor Leaf, in spite of being eliminated day phases earlier.

Bell has

less posts in this game

than he did in a game

he was eliminated in half the game earlier

as scum.

The majority of the posts from Milobird have been notscience.

Wait it's even worse than that.

This is DAY PHASE NUMBER EIGHT.
In DAY PHASE NUMBER EIGHT, Bell has ~240-260 posts. Maybe slightly more, depends on just how many of the unsigned posts were Bell not signing, I could've lost count, but this is still his

approximate

posting rate in this game. He has posted

about

250 times in 8 days. Give or take.

In the game YOU WERE THE IC IN, Pooky, Bell,

as scum

, had

350 posts

in two day phases

.

Bell, as scum in that game, had more posts in

two days

than he has in

the entirety of this game

.

I get that Bell looks town.
But he looks a lot less town than you're giving him credit for.

and we never solved where the nokill came from

The no kill was almost assuredly scum targeting TIL in an attempt to stop the innocent on MathBlade from going through.

However, I will admit that it's at least

possible

that it was Pooky stopped from killing--that's why my order is Milobird->Pooky here, because I think that just wins us the game.

@mastina i dont care how confident u are on milo scum because if you actually read my exchange with milo d7 you would see that they are town

I agree that they look town from it.

So do you, so does Pooky, and so do I, and yet one of us has to be scum in spite of all being town.

In the battle of most town to least town, Pooky and Milobird are bottom two.

I do wanna hear out Mastina, either because they're going to embarrass themselves or show themselves to be ineffectual. Either works.

If you were expecting a case, I don't have one, outside of just POE:

SirCakez is literally confirmed town from Firebringer. This is an indisputable 100% clear.
MathBlade is literally confirmed town from TIL (

especially

since with one scum left, scum couldn't both be Pooky and try to generate a false clea on MathBlade--TIL was the nightkill on N3 unless Pooky's scum and if Pooky's scum then MB isn't and if TIL was the nightkill, then MB can't be scum because MB wouldn't nightkill the cop about to make a false innocent on him).

DKKoba here is town in just about every single way possible. Like, they've been town from what they've done, their role, their claim, their usage, their belief, their excitement in thinking they did something useful N2 (even if it turned out they hadn't), they aren't wrong in saying they've townslipped in ways I don't think scum would, basically, they are the slot who has the most reason out of any slot to be town.

Plus, even if they didn't--the chance at them getting another killstop off tonight is enough where even if they

weren't

this town, I'd want them alive tomorrow just in case.

Pooky has a lot less going for him to be town. It basically does boil down to, Pooky vigged scum N1, and the scum scumplained that we conftowned him for it. I still believe that the scumplaining was scumplaining. implosion wasn't caught until

after

he had claimed, and fucked up his claim. But the scumplaining happened in the same post

as

his claim. Which meant that,

at the time

, implosion didn't know he was fucked; implosion didn't know he was doomed to die. So the scumplaining I stick by it being more likely to be just that, scumplaining that they can't mislim Pooky.
I'll admit that if it's not Milobird here, then sure, yeah, Pooky basically tops the charts for chances at being scum.

But I genuinely just think it's Milobird here.
notscience has looked town by play; Bell has looked town by play; Bell has been outside the range of what his scum meta has been; their role is likely real and genuine and their usage of it looks town.

But everyone else, I just think is

more

town, and

someone

needs to be scum which is why I think it's just Milobird with Bell/notscience being randomly-playing-very-good scum. Wouldn't be the first game where a scum player with no history of playing good suddenly started playing good. (I just finished a game where Morning Tweet powerwolfed randomly for no good reason.)

Meant to include this, too.

because milo is so blatantly town here

Everyone

is blatantly town since chowchow's death (and even then, while *I* personally couldn't tell that chowchow was blatantly town, plenty of others did).

Like, I am dead serious: the players who look the least town are literally the conftown players, when it comes to play.
...I probably need to explain what I mean by that so it's not misconstrued as shading the conftown players, hmm, how do I word this so the point gets across?
SirCakez is conftown, 100% confirmed as town beyond any shadow of a doubt. He

cannot

be scum. imaginality was the scum Godfather, and Gypyx was the scum universal backup. SirCakez was loyal neighborized N1, Firebringer hard-claimed this and per Pooky, SirCakez claimed this neighborhood in their PT and thus, it cannot be a fabrication, meaning that SirCakez is 100% beyond any shadow of a doubt, town.

...Yet in spite of being conftown, he legit genuinely doesn't

look

town by play. He IS town. He's literally mod-confirmed town. But if you didn't KNOW he was mod-confirmed town, looking at his iso, you'd think he'd top the charts as being a scum candidate by play.

MathBlade is conftown, 100% confirmed as town beyond any shadow of a doubt. He

cannot

be scum. imaginality was the scum Godfather, and Gypyx was the scum universal backup. Even

if

MathBlade could generate a false-innocent on himself

in spite

of those roles, evidence points to him not doing so. TIL investigated MathBlade N2. TIL confirmed MathBlade as town D4. There was a missing kill N3, and the only possible explanations for it are "Pooky is scum and was jailkept" or "scum tried to kill TIL to deny the MathBlade clear from coming through".

If Pooky is scum, then MathBlade by definition could not be scum given one scum left.
If Pooky isn't scum, then MathBlade cannot be scum because MathBlade, as scum, does not kill the cop when the cop is about to generate a false innocent on him.

So regardless, MathBlade is conftown here.

And yet, while MathBlade looks

decent

in iso and looks

reasonably

okay as town, compared to the non-conftown players, MathBlade doesn't look nearly as town as they do by play. He IS town. He's literally mod-confirmed town. But if you didn't KNOW he was mod-confirmed town, looking at his iso, you'd think that he'd be among the least-town slots by play.

And yet the conftown are, indeed, conftown--meaning that one of the slots who looks more town than the conftown by play...
...Is, in spite of looking more town than literal conftown by play...
...Not actually town, and in fact, is just scum who looks really damn town by play.

STD looked town by play, but was in the POE.
You look town by play, but are in the POE.
I am town by play, but am in the POE.
Pooky looks town by play, but is in the POE.
Milobird looks town by play, but is in the POE.

Everyone looks town by play--but one of the ones in the POE cannot be town and must in fact actually be scum.

And of the slots who look town by play but are in the POE, Milobird is the slot that I think has the highest chance of being scum.

[mastina]

So I was thinking about the game last night (by which I mean, I literally was brainstorming this game in my sleep and it continued into this morning; I literally woke up this morning due to a potential breakthrough) and while I second-guessed a lot of my thoughts. "Pooky has to be clear", "Milo might be clear", sometimes the opposites, etc.

But ultimately, while I continue to have second-guessing going on, it led me to overall this:
VOTE: DKKoba

From play-wise it's a mess but mechanically-speaking, the thought I had was that Pooky basically can't be scum mechanically.

Now, granted!

What I really would like is if we had a Pokemon flavor expert around--the scum have fakeclaims. Which means that there are scum pokemon that are, flavor-wise, scumclaims and cannot be truthfully claimed. In other words, the pokemon are definitely scum pokemon.

...But the inverse should be true as well. If there are pokemon that are definitely 100% scum pokemon, then it figures that there are pokemon that are definitely 100% town pokemon. And while scum have safeclaims so it's hard to tell if a claimed pokemon is real, in the case of Pooky, there really is only one pokemon he realistically could be.

I should probably double-check any/all scum's isos to see how many of them claimed and what they claimed to see how closely their fakeclaims match their real role, but I'm fairly certain that Pooky, mechanically, is basically a mason here.

In terms of certainty, I'd say ~75% here is what I mean by "fairly certain". It's not a surefire thing, because I've not done the research to confirm it. But if it is, then that'd narrow the pool down to Milobird and DKKoba.

Milobird's role is possible to be scum or a scum fakeclaim, especially if the mod error was "you're not multitasking so you shouldn't have gotten a result while killing", but the nature of the mod error makes it slightly more likely to be town in my opinion. It's not as surefire of a thing, but there was more that tipped me in the scales here; small inconsistencies in DKKoba's claim.

Now, granted. Said inconsistencies are really really small, probably nitpicking, and I can think of reasonable justifications for them. But I've been giving those justifications for them without giving any thought to the other explanation (that the inconsistencies are due to the claim not being from town).

DKKoba allegedly thought that they stopped the scum kill N3 from the scum targeting them N2--but how would DKKoba have thought that? DKKoba wasn't targeted by the scum kill, and even if they were, they'd have died from the scum nightkill on N2 right then and there.
Keep in mind also that scum are not multitasking by default--so what scum would target DKKoba N2 and then forgo their night action N3 to do a nightkill? I can't really think of any aside from knowing one it cannot be; a scum rolecop would know not to make the attempt.

Then there's the decision to self-target N2 anyway. At the time of N2, we had Firebringer claimed as an investigative, SirCakez as a claimed innocent, and Dwlee as basically a hard-claimed protective role (now granted, Dwlee was scum, but if DKKoba was town, they wouldn't have known DKKoba was scum).

Not wanting to roleblock a protective role is maybe excusable, but ironically, not protecting Dwlee actually feels like scum knowledge. (Granted, this is perhaps biased by my thought process. *I* protected the claimed protective role for basically the reason I am outlining; I didn't want to double-up on protecting a slot.) Why the self-target when DKKoba already discarded their self-protect in order to evolve in the first place? If DKKoba wanted to eat up scum night actions, they didn't need to evolve and do so with their new role.

The other inconsistency has to do with their view on protecting players. Yesterday, they said they couldn't stop kills anymore, but there was in fact a way for that to happen. Today, they said they CAN, but while it's theoretically possible, it'd require the scum to basically gamethrow. Per DKKoba's claim of being unable to target the same player twice in a row, and per DKKoba's last protection having been SirCakez, SirCakez is wide open for the scum. (I didn't want to say this while not wanting to eliminate DKKoba because obviously, spelling out the route scum take to get the best nightkills isn't a good idea because if the scum didn't figure it out, they could still be caught by it.)

The route for us getting another killstop was actually the scum killing SirCakez last night, as that'd mean DKKoba could protect either Malakittens or MathBlade tonight, but that didn't happen. The scum took the route that would guarantee the kill could succeed. Now, that doesn't hard-implicate DKKoba as it could be scum respecting the chance for a stopped kill, but...

Overall I think this is the correct move.

There IS an asterisks to this, obviously. Which I intend to investigate. (That being, interactions. Such as with Dwlee actually.)

So I'm not going to push through a DKKoba elimination yet.
But I'll move my vote there.

[mastina]

Everyone in the PoE please tell me who you’d elim if your top choice is wrong
Something like first I would elim X but if they’re town I would elim Y

24 hours ago, it was Milobird->Pooky.
Now it's DKKoba->Milobird.

Although I do admit I am second-guessing my logic here again.

I do really need to do the flavor-research as well as the interaction research I want to.

[mastina]

My flavor is cotton guard if that matters, I'm swablu

Altaria / チルタリス / Tyltalis

COTTON GUARD:

The user protects by wrapping a body in soft cotton
◓ Once at night, you may target another player with your cotton, disallowing any non- actions from affecting that player

PERISH SONG:

Both user and foe faint in 3 turns.
◓ Once, during any phase you may sing to another player, you and that player will both faint three day/night phases later.

Not sure if this is proof of scum having fakeclaims because Dwlee realclaimed the move and apparently Altaria is an evolved Swablu.

However,

I'm Girafarig. My power is Psybeam.

Sableye / ヤミラミ / Yamirami

MEAN LOOK:

The user pins the target with a dark, arresting look.
◓ Twice, at night you may look at another player, scaring them, and receiving an exact copy of their current Rolecard.

CONFUSE RAY:

The target is exposed to a sinister ray that triggers confusion.
◓ Twice at night, you may confuse another player.
◓ The start of the night following your action, your target will be informed they were confused, and if they have an action that targets other players they must submit two targets that will be randomly decided on.
◓ Your target will not be informed which player they targetted.

CALM MIND:

The user quietly focuses its mind and calms its spirit.
◓ Your calm mind means that investigative roles will interact with you as if you were a member of the

Town

...But this seems reasonable proof that scum do in fact have fakeclaims.

Still though. While Pooky

could

be any pokemon with the move Wonder Room from the list here, there's not the clear flavor link between them as there is between Solrock and Lunatone.

It's hard for me to really figure out a reliable source of flavor for the team rocket pokemon tho--I'm kinda at a loss for what to search for, here, in terms of "this is a team rocket pokemon" vs. "this is not a team rocket pokemon".

[mastina]

now i fully understand why chow self voted tbh

Phoneposting at work, only have 15 mins here, so I won't be able to say everything that I want to (I have about six to eight things to get through although at least one will require me being home), but I'll start here.

DK, I voted you and didn't ask questions before doing so for three basic reasons.
1: My vote was safe. Pooky and SirCakez were already voting you, MB wasn't going to before Sunday at the EARLIEST, and a town Milobird, knowing that Titus and MB wanted to solve wouldn't have hammered, meaning that the only way you were in danger is if Milo literally scumclaimed with a hammer.
2: I knew that the vote post would act just as well if not better

[mastina]

*ahem*
Phone is being an absolute ass and misfiring, as I think that it's obvious that I didn't hit submit there.

AS I WAS SAYING:
I knew that a vote post would work just as well if not better than a question post.
3: I knew that placing you at L-1 would generate a strong reaction from you, and maybe others. It'd serve as a way to kick the day into an even higher gear. (Obviously, I miscalculated in not realizing that you'd selfvote, but I never expect town to selfvote outside of the Mastina Gambit. )

My vote wasn't intended to be final. Quite the opposite, in fact. I voted you to get my vote off of Milobird (which is, while you were alive, explicitly something that you wanted me to do? To get off of voting Milo. So I did...)

If I had thought that MB would hammer you after talking to Titus, I'd explicitly have unvoted in fact, because I was NOT ready for the day to have ended.

I realize that this means little to you now, but I wanted it on the record to explain my mindset.

[mastina]

Point 2 is that I actually had a lucid dream within a lucid dream, both about this game.

In it, I got a dream about the scum being Pokemon Go Team Rocket Pokemon, and was asking for flavor experts to verify that the scums Pokemon would be from Pokemon Go's Team Rocket Pokemon.

I kinda sorta wanna trust that the dream me was onto something, but it'll require time/research on my part.

Out of time, but next on my list is addressing things today; I've got a 3+1 point to make, a defense to write, and more.

[mastina]

Yes it would but it eliminates the rare cakez scum scenario. I would like to review the game entirely and this stalls that a bit.

Also, I have a large theme in signups if you want to join.

I do admit, I did have SirCakez paranoia even after Pookys clarification …
…But it required that instead of one scum alive, we had two, Pooky + SirCakez.

With the game not ended, said scenario is thus impossible, so SirCakez is just town.

[mastina]

Pooky and Mastina need to cross vote.

-Bell

(BTW this and 5961 I need to be at home to reply to, but I will in fact be doing so; I'll be back to these when able to, but momentarily must skip them)

[mastina]

Notty tells me that Mastina always claims their role day 1.
Or something, or has done it as scum in the past.
Mastina, as a categorical self-examiner, what say you to this maybe half-remembered charge?

-Bell

I claim my role at the time that I see it most appropriate to do so.
I can softclaim at the time I see fit to.
I can exaggerate, obfuscate, lie by omission, or even tell a self explanatory lie (e.g. maco <-> BP), and I get roles I do that on D1 quite often.

I WILL say tho that I never* fakeclaim as scum tho.

*can go into this, but really outta time

[mastina]

Notty tells me that Mastina always claims their role day 1.
Or something, or has done it as scum in the past.
Mastina, as a categorical self-examiner, what say you to this maybe half-remembered charge?

-Bell

I claim my role at the time that I see it most appropriate to do so.
I can softclaim at the time I see fit to.
I can exaggerate, obfuscate, lie by omission, or even tell a self explanatory lie (e.g. maco <-> BP), and I get roles I do that on D1 quite often.

I WILL say tho that I never* fakeclaim as scum tho.

*can go into this, but really outta time

Am going up second, so got an extra half hour.

The asterisk is because technically, I HAVE, it's just that one game taught me to never again do it, and the one and only other time I did, it was my only option to win, and was done in lylo after I had the entire towns info to craft my own.

Generally speaking, it's not that I refuse to fakeclaim. I just genuinely think that my best chance at winning is honesty, so I never fakeclaim as scum, because I can't back up a fakeclaim convincingly.

If I claim something, it needs to be obvious to others that it's true.

Now, this policy doesn't hold for town me, since I can and do gambit. The Mason Gambit is the OTHER Mastina Gambit. (Self-voting to either take out a scum or protect a town being the og mastina gambit.)

But obviously, that's of little relevance.

I'll be returning to my claim when I get back home to address 5960/5961, but at work, this is as much as I can go into it.

[mastina]

I am going to spam. Until the game solves itself.

Pooky, Titus, Mastina, what do you think of Mastina using self-meta, I.e., they aren't very blame gamey as scum compared to as town mid game. Because they don't want to offend town and get exasperation voted?
Like, how likely is it that scum them makes that argument? It really doesn't feel very implausible to me. I would make similar arguments if I were pushed as scum.

Or at least I think I would. If my scum game didn't suck.

-Bell

To reiterate, a lot of what you are saying, I need to be home to properly address, this post included. I'll be including a much more in-depth response to you then, better than this, but basically:
I am not you.
I am mastina.
I operate by my own principles, rules, standards, thought processes, etc.
The way I think, though not standard, is very well documented, and frankly?

North should remember the LAST time that I was accused of faking rage.
(Hint: I wasn't.
Double hint: I was town.
Triple hint, it technically wasn't the latest time I've raged as town, but it IS among the most infamous times I've raged as town. There's damn good reason that I am saying notty can fuck off, because notty SHOULD know fucking better.)

[mastina]

Sorry for Ego purposes upon which I must protect.

I will point out that Mastina has been right on (2 or 3 eliminations this game?)

and wrong on STD and I forgot who else.

Chowchow?

I really should have read this game more.

At the very least Mastina had more skin in the game.

-Bell

I've had basically every slot as town/scum at some point, so you could say that I've had perfect reads, shit reads, or anywhere in-between the extremes, and you'd be right.

I'll say that I had Woolax, Gypyx, and imaginality as voteworthy the entire game tho, and that Dwlee was null before I deduced their role and thought it town.

This said, I've more to say on Pooky, actually somewhat related to my gamelong reads, but again, I need to be home for it.
(3 home things: defense, research, and the 3+1 point thingy. Mental note, is 'mirror'+'arrow'+'project' +1.)

[mastina]

You're demanding I make a Mastina case right this second I assume separate from the last one Notty made and I half-assedly made in a show of reluctant support.

But you know that I'm a slow burner.

no just give me one reason

you can't even say a thing

They voted us. They haven't been super interactive. They haven't fallen apart which points against it, but I've seen them do better as town so maybe.
If you want me to actually drown you in analysis I have to reread the game though. Something you're trying to distract me from doing. There's no rush.
We have this day phase and the next apparently, since Titus wants to watch Sircakez die just in case a player played against win con.

-Bell

"haven't been super interactive", my ASS..
I've done a FEW non interactive things.
Making the claims/actions list (although both before AND after making it, I was interacting, before saying 'I need to make this', and after, saying "dude I literally made this, why are you still making the stupid mistakes?") And speculating about flavor and such and compiling VCs and reading isos.

But 90% of what I have done is nothing BUT interacting with others.

I'm literally phoneposting at fuc king WORK.
ON 1% BATTERY.
MULTIPLE TIMES.
It doesn't GET more interactive than that.

O literally never do more
Than what I am now.

I've, what? Nearly 200 posts in the game?

I'd be at half that AT MOST if scum.

Sure, I don't have 400+ posts, but I am doing the most I can given the circumstances.

As for voting you?

Half because BOTH heads should fucking know that I am town here. This isn't your first game with me; you've literally both had dozens.

(Pfhone seriously misbehaving and says at 1% in spite of literally being full chArge 1 hour ago, so gotta stop.)

[mastina]

[quote="In [url=viewtopic.php?p=13138167#p13138167]post 6059[/url], mastina"][quote="In [url=viewtopic.php?p=13137893#p13137893]post 6043[/url], Milobird"][quote="In [url=viewtopic.php?p=13137884#p13137884]post 6041[/url], PookyTheMagicalBear"][quote="In [url=viewtopic.php?p=13137877#p13137877]post 6039[/url], Milobird"]You're demanding I make a Mastina case right this second I assume separate from the last one Notty made and I half-assedly made in a show of reluctant support.

But you know that I'm a slow burner.[/quote]

no just give me one reason

you can't even say a thing[/quote]

They voted us. They haven't been super interactive. They haven't fallen apart which points against it, but I've seen them do better as town so maybe.
If you want me to actually drown you in analysis I have to reread the game though. Something you'rec trying to distract me from doing. There's no rush.
We have this day phase and the next apparently, since Titus wants to watch Sircakez die just in case a player played against win con.

-Bell[/quote] "haven't been super interactive", my ASS..
I've done a FEW non interactive things.
Making the claims/actions list (although both before AND after making it, I was interacting, before saying 'I need to make this', and after, saying "dude I literally made this, why are you still making the stupid mistakes?") And speculating about flavor and such and compiling VCs and reading isos.

But 90% of what I have done is nothing BUT interacting with others.

I'm literally phoneposting at fuc king WORK.
ON 1% BATTERY.
MULTIPLE TIMES.
It doesn't GET more interactive than that.

O literally never do more
Than what I am now.

I've, what? Nearly 200 posts in the game?

I'd be at half that AT MOST if scum.

Sure, I don't have 400+ posts, but I am doing the most I can given the circumstances.

As for voting you?

Half because BOTH heads should fucking know that I am town here. This isn't your first game with me; you've literally both had dozens.

(Pfhone seriously misbehaving and says at 1% in spite of literally being full chArge 1 hour ago, so gotta stop.)[/quote]For the phone BTW it Went from giving me the fully charged ping, complete with green light, to the @1%.
It once again says fully charged.
However, it continues to badly misbehave . it's literally spazzing out, randomly clicking random spots, letters, etc.

I wanted to add tho:

Scumastina has ~20-50 posts per game. Stretch amount, MAYBE 75.

Town me averages ~100-300, with the lowest being 75.

[mastina]

Did a phone restart, hopefully that helps fix the issue.

I (nope, still broke) forgot to also add:

I've never phoneposted from work as scum.
In fact, I've phoneposted as scum a grand total of once:
During a 3 day power outage, where the alternative was being replaced.

Literally every other time, I was town.

I don't phonepost as scum for multiple reasons, which I can explain when home from work.

I'll add tho, that I always am at this level of activity and engagement as town, and NEVER this high activity/engagement as scum. Again, for multiple reasons that I can get in to once home.

Suffice to say tho: the accusation that I am low engagement is utter bullshit.

[mastina]

Please don't post at work.

-Bell

Stop saying that I could be scum for bullshit reasons and maybe I'll have less reason to.

This is literally me at my most active.

And scumastina is many things, but active is not among them.

That's been true even before my scum ability tanked. I was closer in levels to my town self, but both in the amount amount and type, I had obvious scumtells.

[mastina]

mastina

it is a pain in the ass

to do meta research for you

because you have so many games

where you pop in to just talk about how you designed the setup

Those are all Normals.

I have one scumgame of note in the Normal queue, but otherwise, I've played exclusively Micros, Mini Themes, and Large Themes. You can search just those three and get literally every game I've played in the last 4 years or so. When home from work, can even show you the search to use.

[mastina]

Please don't post at work.

-Bell

Stop saying that I could be scum for bullshit reasons and maybe I'll have less reason to.

This is literally me at my most active.

And scumastina is many things, but active is not among them.

That's been true even before my scum ability tanked. I was closer in levels to my town self, but both in the amount amount and type, I had obvious scumtells.

This is true. I don't know where you got the fuel for this if you're scum this game, given you've been disappointing yourself for about a year(?) now?

-Bell

Three years, actually.

I posted in GD about it, would need to check the dates there to find out.

[mastina]

mastina doesn't even like playing scum

Yup. Pretty sure that I never have.

I don't trust tell about it, I never replace out, always try my best, but I do in fact loathe being scum.

Granted, I can be "Girls Giggle Genocide" (GE will get the ref) as scum, laughing my ass off in the scum pt, but I still hate being scum even when I can have a good laugh.

[mastina]

Sorry I see shit going down but I just can't be here right now
Wednesday Wednesday Wednesday

BTW when here, can you paraphrase your pt?

[mastina]

(sorry nevermind about doing things tonight--I left my phone at work, and at home I LOST INTERNET until now at TWO AM when I work tomorrow so like...I'm not in the space to be here tonight. Will have to wait until tomorrow, prolly late at night.)

[mastina]

nice yeah there's no fucking way it's mastina here

In before instead of killing the literal conftown in you, the scum kill me because I'd be impossible to vote out and they're scared of me choosing them over the town.

[mastina]

what parts do you want? it's decently long I can't do the whole thing

Well per us listening to Titus's request, we have literally the entirety of the day phase--if we're not eliminating anyone, we're going to literally run the clock out to the last second, giving us basically a two-week D9.

You have the time to do the whole thing. It's not a top priority; it's not something you need to put the time/effort into right now.

But I DO want the whole thing paraphrased to give me a better idea of the context behind Pooky this game. Ideally with a (very loose) timeline attached so that I can reference it to the game events.

[mastina]

Those 2 scums being in the dead center of Mastina's reads though.

I mean, that was explicitly the null zone--I had no scum north of null! I just had a LOT of nulls at that point in time because I was ~struggling~.

given they haven't had much luck with their scum approach maybe they chose a more traditional scum reads list.

Oi!

My approach as scum, I'll have you know, is

very

effective!
It does precisely what I design it to do.
1: It hides who my scumbuddies are when I flip scum.
2: It makes town players look like my scumbuddies when I flip scum.
3: It makes reading my iso a waste of time, because I don't spew scumbuddies as scum or town as town, and usually, this is mutual with the people who pushed/defended me not being spewed as town/scum from their positions on me.
4: It makes me look town enough that I am usually not the first elimination in the game, making me

just

town enough to not be seen as the best D1 elimination.

I achieve all four of these in basically every scumgame that I play!

Now, granted!

You are correct about one thing: I have

shit

luck as scum.
If my entire scumteam save me botches their fakeclaims, it aint gonna go well for me down the line because step four keeps me alive only temporarily. (The average modern-scumastina death time is D3.)
If I deliberately sacc myself on D1 because my scumbuddy was the counterwagon to me and I'm a goon compared to my scumbuddy being a PR, and then after I die to saccing myself said scumbuddy is eliminated anyway (and not because of failing steps 1-3, because the players eliminating said scumbuddy ignored interactions altogether and just voted the player who looked most scum by play, interactions be damned), then it aint gonna go well for my team down the line because my death was in vain.

But like.

Those aren't things that I, personally, can control. I can't do anything about it. I can't influence factors like that.

So like.
I keep doing it anyway because why wouldn't I? It does precisely what it is designed to do, and does it

damn

well.

scumastina might be night to my day, but in spite of how painfully obvscum I am as scum, I

still

use the same strategies time and time and time and time again as scum...because they still

work

at doing

exactly

what they are designed to do.
What they are designed to do is also fairly effective at helping my team, too!
But, well, it DOES run afoul of, as you said it: bad luck. The strategy is fairly effective but it's not foolproof so with bad luck, it's still loss after loss after loss. (Granted. It isn't all luck, obviously. I'm shit at scum now compared to peak scumastina. My strategy keeps me from being complete deadweight but I am NOT good at scum right now. Being unable to endgame means that my scumteam fundamentally needs to plan for my inevitable pre-endgame death which is a disadvantage. I manage to work with said handicap quite well, but like...is a stopgap measure obv.)

Lacking bad luck tho, you'd be surprised how often it still works. The four goals I want to achieve in my scumgame can and

have

gotten me scum wins, even after I entered my scum funk! (Animals UPick is probably the most prominent example, or at least the example that most immediately comes to my mind. I wasn't the D1 elimination, and after I did die, I didn't spew my scumbuddies as scum and didn't spew town as town and my scumbuddy did win the game in the end. This, in spite of the fact that I put in absolutely zero effort to disguise it being my scumgame. Like, I was, to use the term, openwolfing; I was blatantly scum with zero attempts made to appear as anything but. Still worked tho because my scum strategy, while not as good as peak scumastina, works well enough.)

It's not every game but it's not like scumastina has a 0% winrate these days. It's probably like 33-40% if I had to guess. (I dunno, would have to look at all post-funk scumgames and do the W/L ratio there, which is :effort: best spent elsewhere.)

[mastina]

ya'll have read death curse.

Why do people think I've read Death Curse?

I am

familiar

with the game, obviously, due to the Scummie nominations from it, and the parts relevant to the Scummie nomination, I

skimmed

.

But I only

read

games I either played or reviewed. (And even the latter, I tend to skim.)

every flipped replacement in this game is town so your statistics are garbage

This isn't how statistics work.
-Bell

Bell is correct here btw.

Statistically speaking, over, what, like...10,000 games? (This is topic 87,795 but the majority of topics aren't gonna be mafia games; every PT, every private forum/backstage topic, every GD/Speakeasy/GTKAS topic, every Mish-Mash topic, is one of those other 87,794 so like...dunno how many mafia games we actually have)

Scum do replace out more than town.

By a small, but noticeable, statistically-significant, margin. (Something like 55% I think?)

If 55/100 replacements are from scum, that still means 45/100 are not.

And if there's 6 town replacements in a game, having 6 replacements in the game be town doesn't mean the 55/100 replacements being scum is debunk. It just means those 6 are among the other 45/100. The tell still applies. (No tell which is actually a tell is going to be 100/100, most actual tells are legit in that 55-60% range, which means that 40-45% of the time, the tell is a miss due to it being the 40-45% that was town.)

[mastina]

(also forgot to say this at the beginning but while I am

here

, I am not able to do the long posts I was planning on. I'm drained, exhausted, and frankly: I just don't want to be playing mafia right now, I want to do something else in my incredibly limited amount of free time. But, catching up, staying on top, and reacting to the new stuff that doesn't require walls, is doable for me, so I am doing it. I WILL get to the walls I want to make tho sooner or later.)

[mastina]

Comprehensive List of Claims/Reads

, Version 3.0

T3

Pokemon:

Makuhita

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Bulk Up

Role:

extra attack for evolution

(speculation: evolution was an X-shot vig?)

Actions:

N1, did nothing? (not confirmed, but role wasn't evolved so presumed).

Notes:

(None)

Wisdom

Pokemon:

Huntail

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Dive

Role:

Nonconsecutive Follower (sees type of move target used, from Protective/Killing/Investigative/Misc.; couldn't use two nights in a row)

Actions:

Guess we'll never know, huh?

Notes:

Fuck y'all for extending the game because with Wisdom not speed-limmed we'd have already ended the game in a town win.

Save the Dragons

Pokemon:

Mareep->Flaafy->Ampharos

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Light Screen->Growl->Cotton Spore

Role:

Protection from non-Normal(type) moves (with link to Normal-type moves)->protect from harmful moves, prioritizing non-killing moves (one action stopped/night)->treestumps a player after their death.

Actions:

N1, evolved. N2, evolved. N3, targeted

Titus

. N4, targeted MathBlade (however, this failed due to Gamma Emerald's rolestop).

Notes:

Well, crap. I should've stuck to my guns.

Alexandrite/Gamma Emerald

Pokemon:

Blissey

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Heal Pulse

Role:

Indecisive Rolestopper (prevents target from being affected by any move/role; cannot target the same player consecutively)

Actions:

N1, rolestopped mastina (granting her a 1x copy of his role); N2, rolestopped Milobird; N3, rolestopped Truth Innuendos Lies (this is the source of the failed nightkill); N4, rolestopped MathBlade; N5, ???; was nightkilled.

Notes:

(None)

WhemeStar

Pokemon:

Gardevoir

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Imprison

Role:

Combined Jailkeeper Watcher (Targets a player; target is protected but roleblocked; learns whoever visited target)

Actions:

N1, ???; N2, ???; N3, targeted PookyTheMagicalBear (nobody targeted Pooky N3), N4 ???; was nightkilled.

Notes:

(None)

The Goat/Titus

Pokemon:

Milotic->Milokaross

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Splash->Disarming Voice

Role:

Fruit Vendor->1-shot Strong-Willed Friendly Neighbor (cannot be prevented, but could be redirected)

Actions:

N1, targeted Kitty Trauma Team/Malakittens (this action's failure is unexplained) and evolved. N2, Friendly Neighbor'd Milobird. (Milobird confirmed.); N6 was nightkilled.

Notes:

(None)

chowchow

Pokemon:

Wurmple->Cascoon->Dustox (allegedly due to scum flip D1)

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Confusion

Role:

Roleblocker that doesn't stop kills

Actions:

evolved N1; evolved N2; no-action'd N3/N4/N5.

Notes:

...Oops?

Truth Innuendos Lies

Pokemon:

Absol

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Future Sight

Role:

Informed 3-shot Delayed Cop (targets a player; receives their role the next night; could use this action three times; knew there was a Godfather in the game, later revealed to be

imaginality

)

Actions:

N1,

Dwlee

; N2, investigated SleepyKrew/Valkyrie Dimension/Critter/Mathblade, received the result of them being

town

; N3, ??? (but was killed before results); N4, was nightkilled.

Notes:

Was the N3 nightkill, due to Gamma Emerald's rolestop being the only killstop effect to work that night.

Kitty Trauma Team/Malakittens

Pokemon:

Remoraid->Octillery

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

???->Wrap

Role:

Neighborizer-permanent-Busdriver(busdrives self and neighborized target permanently)->Modified 2-shot Babysitter / Rolestopper (twice, could prevent target from being targeted by any non-killing actions; if killed, would take target down with them)

Actions:

N1, ???; N2, targeted Milobird (this action failed due to Gamma Emerald's rolestop); evolved; N3, ???; N4, ???; N5, ???; N6, ???; N7, as nobody died with them, fundamentally could not have acted.

Notes:

Was confirmed as town from

MathBlade

using a

Loyal Neighborize

on them N4.

SirCakez

Pokemon:

Solrock

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Wonder Room

Role:

Neighbor-Vigilante with

PookyTheMagicalBear

Actions:

N1, Vigged

Gypyx

.

Notes:

Was confirmed as town from

Firebringer

using a

Loyal Neighborize

on him N1.

Thestatusquo/DKKoba

Pokemon:

Phanpy->Donphan

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Sturdy->Earthquake

Role:

Bulletproof->Nonconsecutive Delayed modified-Rolestopper which is a form of Roleblocker (targets a player; anyone targeting that player that night is roleblocked the following night)

Actions:

N1, evolved. N2, self-targeted (this failed due to me, mastina, rolestopping them); N3, could not act; N4, targeted MathBlade (this failed due to Gamma Emerald rolestopping them); N5, couldn't act; N6, protected SirCakez; N7, couldn't act.

Notes:

I'M SORRY.

SleepyKrew/Valkyrie Dimension/Critter/MathBlade

Pokemon:

Lotad->Lombre->Ludicolo

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Mega Drain->1x Dragon Dance

Role:

???->modified 1-Shot Universal Backup (chooses who to back up the role of)->1-shot Loyal Neighborizer (targets a player, forms a neighborhood with them; action fails if targeting scum)

Actions:

N4, neighborized

successfully

Kitty Trauma Team/Malakittens

, conftowning them.

Notes:

Was confirmed as town from

Truth Innuendos Lies

investigating him N2 and receiving this result N3.

Sharing the Braincell/ssbm_Kyouko

Pokemon:

Azurill

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Attract

Role:

Lovedizer (target takes one more vote to eliminate)

Actions:

N1, ???; was nightkilled.

Notes:

(None)

Firebringer

Pokemon:

Rayquaza

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Dragon Dance

Role:

1-shot Loyal Neighborizer (once in game, targets a player, forms a neighborhood with them; action fails if targeting scum)

Actions:

N1, neighborized

successfully

SirCakez

, conftowning him.

Notes:

(None)

mastina

Pokemon:

Sudowoodo

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Mimic

Role:

Reflexive Role-copier (the first player to target me, I get a one-shot copy of their move/role)->One-shot rolestopper

Actions:

N1, received a rolestop (later revealed to be Gamma Emerald's); N2, rolestopped DKKoba.

Notes:

Well I know I'm town but objectively I've technically only got circumstantial evidence clearing me between my interactions with scum, scum's interactions with me, the unlikelihood of scum having both my role and Gypyx's, and that I am out of my scum range, but *shrug*, SOME fucks still don't see me as town so make of it what you will.

Milobird

Pokemon:

Meditite->Medichan

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Detect(only???)->???

Role:

2-shot nerfed/ORIGINAL-Motion Detector (also known as a weak-voyeur, not weak-modifier, but literally

weakened

-voyeur; may be getting an official NRG-rebranded-name soon) / Activated Bulletproof->(eventually clarified to be 2-shot) Flavor Cop / Rolecop (depending on target's evolutionary status); checks what someone evolves into and if they’ve evolved/can still.

Actions:

N1, immunity, triggering evolution. N2, targeted Wisdom (result: two evolutions, one neighborizer one follower). N3, targeted Malakittens (result; evolved). N4, targeted STD (result, STD is a 2-evolution pokemon; received this result due to mod error). Couldn't act after (and technically shouldn't have been able to N4).

Notes:

Obvtown by play, but not conftown.

Ralts/PookyTheMagicalBear

Pokemon:

Lunatone

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Wonder Room

Role:

Neighbor-Vigilante with

SirCakez

Actions:

N1, Vigged

Gypyx

.

Notes:

(I have things to say here, I'm just not saying them yet)

(this may still have errors in it, sorry, making this is a pain in the ass to keep accurate, but I tried my best)

[mastina]

Spoiler: D1 VCs

VC1.02

Firebringer

(1):

Ralts/PookyTheMagicalBear

Save The Dragons

(5):

Thestatusquo/DKKoba

,

Sharing the Brain Cell/ssbm_kyouko

,

Woolax

,

chowchow

,

SleepyKrew/Valkyrie Dimension/Critter/MathBlade

Milobird (3):

Kitty Trauma Team/Malakittens

,

imaginality

,

Save The Dragons

Sharing the Brain Cell/ssbm_kyouko

(6):

SirCakez

,

Firebringer

,

WhemeStar

,

Wisdom

,

Gypyx

,

Truth Innuendos Lies

Truth Innuendos Lies

(1):

Dwlee99

WhemeStar

(1):

Milobird

SirCakez

(1):

mastina

Not Voting:

T3

,

Alexandrite/Gamma Emerald

,

The Goat/Titus

VC1.03

Save The Dragons

(4):

Thestatusquo/DKKoba

,

Sharing the Brain Cell/ssbm_kyouko

,

Woolax

,

SleepyKrew/Valkyrie Dimension/Critter/MathBlade

Milobird (2):

Kitty Trauma Team/Malakittens

,

Save The Dragons

Sharing the Brain Cell/ssbm_kyouko

(7):

SirCakez

,

WhemeStar

,

Wisdom

,

Gypyx

,

Truth Innuendos Lies

,

Dwlee99

,

T3

Gypyx

(6):

Alexandrite/Gamma Emerald

, Milobird,

Firebringer

, Ralts/PookyTheMagicalBear,

imaginality

,

chowchow

SirCakez

(1):

mastina

Not Voting:

The Goat/Titus

VC1.04

Gypyx

(7):

Alexandrite/Gamma Emerald

, Milobird, Ralts/PookyTheMagicalBear,

imaginality

,

chowchow

,

WhemeStar

,

Sharing the Brain Cell/ssbm_kyouko

Sharing the Brain Cell/ssbm_kyouko

(4):

Wisdom

,

Gypyx

,

T3

,

Firebringer

Save The Dragons

(2):

Woolax

,

SleepyKrew/Valkyrie Dimension/Critter/MathBlade

Milobird (2):

Kitty Trauma Team/Malakittens

,

Save The Dragons

Alexandrite/Gamma Emerald

(2):

SirCakez

,

Dwlee99

Firebringer

(1):

Thestatusquo/DKKoba

SirCakez

(1):

mastina

SleepyKrew/Valkyrie Dimension/Critter/MathBlade

(1):

Truth Innuendos Lies

Not Voting:

The Goat/Titus

VC1.05

ssbm_kyouko

(5):

Wisdom

,

Gypyx

,

T3

,

Firebringer

,

Dwlee99

Gypyx

(4):

Alexandrite/Gamma Emerald

, Milobird, Ralts/PookyTheMagicalBear,

WhemeStar

Save The Dragons

(2):

Woolax

,

SleepyKrew/Valkyrie Dimension/Critter/MathBlade

Woolax

(2):

Truth Innuendos Lies

,

Save The Dragons

Milobird (1):

Kitty Trauma Team/Malakittens

Wisdom

(1):

ssbm_kyouko

Alexandrite/Gamma Emerald

(1):

SirCakez

Firebringer

(1):

Thestatusquo/DKKoba

SirCakez

(1):

mastina

mastina (1:)

imaginality

Not Voting:

The Goat/Titus

,

chowchow

VC1.06

Gypyx

(4):

Alexandrite/Gamma Emerald

, Milobird, Ralts/PookyTheMagicalBear,

WhemeStar

Woolax

(4):

Truth Innuendos Lies

,

Save The Dragons

,

ssbm_kyouko

,

Wisdom

ssbm_kyouko

(3):

Gypyx

,

T3

,

Firebringer

Milobird (1):

Kitty Trauma Team/Malakittens

Alexandrite/Gamma Emerald

(1):

SirCakez

Firebringer

(1):

Thestatusquo/DKKoba

SirCakez

(1):

mastina

mastina (1:)

imaginality

Save The Dragons

(1):

Woolax

Not Voting:

The Goat/Titus

,

chowchow

,

Dwlee99

,

SleepyKrew/Valkyrie Dimension/Critter/MathBlade

VC1.FINAL

Woolax

(11) HAMMER:

Truth Innuendos Lies

,

ssbm_kyouko

,

Wisdom

,

Firebringer

,

chowchow

,

imaginality

,

Save The Dragons

,

SirCakez

,

SleepyKrew/Valkyrie Dimension/Critter/MathBlade

,

Gamma Emerald

,

WhemeStar

Gypyx

(2):

Milobird, Ralts/PookyTheMagicalBear

Gamma Emerald

(2):

T3

,

Gypyx

SirCakez

(1):

mastina

Save The Dragons

(1):

Woolax

Wisdom

(1):

DkKoba

Not Voting:

The Goat/Titus

,

Dwlee99

,

Kitty Trauma Team/Malakittens

Spoiler: D2 VCs

VC 2.01

Kitty Trauma Team/Malakittens

(5):

Firebringer

,

SirCakez

, PookyTheMagicalBear,

WhemeStar

,

Kitty Trauma Team/Malakittens

PookyTheMagicalBear (3):

T3

,

Dwlee99

,

Save The Dragons

Wisdom

(1):

DkKoba

WhemeStar

(1):

Milobird

SirCakez

(1):

mastina

T3

(1):

Gamma Emerald

Dwlee99

(1):

Wisdom

Not Voting:

imaginality

,

Titus

,

chowchow

,

Truth Innuendos Lies

,

SleepyKrew/Valkyrie Dimension/Critter/MathBlade

VC 2.02

Kitty Trauma Team/Malakittens

(7):

Firebringer

,

SirCakez

, PookyTheMagicalBear,

WhemeStar

,

Kitty Trauma Team/Malakittens

,

Wisdom

,

Dwlee99

PookyTheMagicalBear (2):

T3

,

Save The Dragons

Wisdom

(2):

DkKoba

, Milobird

Titus

(1):

imaginality

SirCakez

(1):

mastina

T3

(1):

Gamma Emerald

Not Voting:

imaginality

,

Titus

,

chowchow

,

Truth Innuendos Lies

,

SleepyKrew/Valkyrie Dimension/Critter/MathBlade

VC 2.03

Wisdom

(3):

DkKoba

, Milobird,

Gamma Emerald

T3

(3):

WhemeStar

,

Truth Innuendos Lies

,

SirCakez

Dwlee99

(3):

Wisdom

,

Firebringer

, PookyTheMagicalBear

Kitty Trauma Team/Malakittens

(2):

Dwlee99

,

Kitty Trauma Team/Malakittens

PookyTheMagicalBear (2):

T3

,

Save The Dragons

Titus

(1):

imaginality

SirCakez

(1):

mastina

Not Voting:

Titus

,

chowchow

,

Valkyrie Dimension/Critter/MathBlade

VC 2.04

Dwlee99

(4):

Wisdom

,

Firebringer

, PookyTheMagicalBear,

WhemeStar

Valkyrie Dimension/Critter/MathBlade

(3):

DkKoba

, mastina,

Titus

Wisdom

(2):

Milobird,

Gamma Emerald

T3

(2):

SirCakez

,

Truth Innuendos Lies

Kitty Trauma Team/Malakittens

(2):

Dwlee99

,

Kitty Trauma Team/Malakittens

PookyTheMagicalBear (2):

T3

,

Save The Dragons

Titus

(1):

imaginality

Not Voting:

chowchow

,

Valkyrie Dimension/Critter/MathBlade

VC 2.05

Dwlee99

(2):

Firebringer

,

WhemeStar

imaginality

(1):

Titus

Valkyrie Dimension/Critter/MathBlade

(1):

DkKoba

Wisdom

(2):

Milobird,

Gamma Emerald

T3

(6):

SirCakez

,

Truth Innuendos Lies

, PookyTheMagicalBear,

Wisdom

,

imaginality

, mastina

Kitty Trauma Team/Malakittens

(2):

Dwlee99

,

Kitty Trauma Team/Malakittens

PookyTheMagicalBear (2):

T3

,

Save The Dragons

Not Voting:

chowchow

,

Valkyrie Dimension/Critter/MathBlade

VC 2.06

T3

(7):

SirCakez

, PookyTheMagicalBear,

Wisdom

,

imaginality

, mastina,

Critter/MathBlade

,

Truth Innuendos Lies

Kitty Trauma Team/Malakittens

(2):

Dwlee99

,

Kitty Trauma Team/Malakittens

PookyTheMagicalBear (2):

T3

,

Save The Dragons

Wisdom

(2):

Milobird,

Gamma Emerald

Dwlee99

(2):

Firebringer

,

WhemeStar

imaginality

(1):

Titus

Critter/MathBlade

(1):

DkKoba

Not Voting:

chowchow

VC 2.07

T3

(10): (HAMMER)

SirCakez

, PookyTheMagicalBear,

Wisdom

,

imaginality

, mastina,

Dwlee99

,

chowchow

,

Truth Innuendos Lies

, Milobird

Kitty Trauma Team/Malakittens

(1):

Kitty Trauma Team/Malakittens

PookyTheMagicalBear (1):

T3

Wisdom

(1):

Gamma Emerald

Dwlee99

(3):

Firebringer

,

WhemeStar

,

DkKoba

imaginality

(1):

Titus

Not Voting:

Save The Dragons

,

Critter/MathBlade

VC 4.01

Wisdom

(2):

Malakittens

,

Titus

PookyTheMagicalBear (2):

mastina,

Wisdom

Milobird (1):

DkKoba

Not Voting:

Milobird,

Save The Dragons

,

imaginality

,

Gamma Emerald

,

WhemeStar

,

chowchow

,

Truth Innuendos Lies

, PookyTheMagicalBear,

SirCakez

,

MathBlade

VC 4.FINAL

imaginality

(8) HAMMER:

SirCakez

,

Wisdom

,

Titus

, PookyTheMagicalBear,

Truth Innuendos Lies

, mastina,

chowchow

,

imaginality

Wisdom

(1):

Malakittens

chowchow

(1):

DkKoba

Not Voting:

Save The Dragons

,

Gamma Emerald

,

WhemeStar

,

MathBlade

, Milobird

[mastina]

(yes I am aware Milobird and Pooky have posted a shitload and that I owe y'all a few walls)
(I'm working on it)
(I just saw the chance for a convenient pagetop grab of some updated info)

[mastina]

Notty wants Mastina,

Notty thinks Mastina's role fits another scum player's role. Rather it compliments it. He'll have to explain it himself.

Notty can fuck off when it comes to this.
Role-wise I'm not going to say it's

impossible

for my role to be scum. It's definitely

possible

.
Creating a backup of a town role could be fairly strong if the town role is one scum could use.
But more than that, scum using one of their abilities on me could turn me into a 1x backup of their role.
Now, granted--there's a really damn confusing interaction that basically makes no sense if it were real, and that's Gypyx's role with my role.

MIRROR MOVE:

The user uses a move from the field.
◓ Once at night you may use one of your living or dead teammates move.
◓ If their move has a gated amount of uses, you will use one of their shots.
◓ You may not use a move that's uses have been depleted.
◓ You may not use one of your teammates moves the same night they are using the same move.
◓ When taking a passive move, your teammate loses any of its effects for the night of use.

If my role is real, how would Gypyx's interaction work with my role? Using my role would consume my shot, but using my role would be targeting me. Yet Gypyx can't get a copy of a move that's depleted. My role is a passive role, too, so it's a move that is simultaneously used every night, and yet no night. How would my role be classified in relationship to Gypyx's?

And then, even if I am targeted by someone and copy their move, would Mirror Move allow Gypyx to basically steal that move even though it wasn't technically my move? It's a move I copied, not a move I originally had.

These are interactions that the mod could have answers for, and if I was scum, there would be answers for them--but these are things that never got asked/addressed/etc. because there was no need...thanks to me not being scum with Gypyx.

Now, granted. You

could

argue that either scum were just so apathetic/detached/out of the game that they didn't notice, or that they did and the answers are in the scum PT and nobody shared them due to them being from the scum PT, but those add extra layers to require me to be scum, and doesn't cover the far more basic problem;

My role would be redundant with Gypyx's as Gypyx's is a better version of my role. My role requires me to be targeted by the scum player to create the copy of the move. Gypyx's can be done without being targeted and can be done even if the scum player in question is dead.

But there's more to it than that.

what do you think of Mastina using self-meta, I.e., they aren't very blame gamey as scum compared to as town mid game. Because they don't want to offend town and get exasperation voted?
Like, how likely is it that scum them makes that argument? It really doesn't feel very implausible to me. I would make similar arguments if I were pushed as scum. Or at least I think I would. If my scum game didn't suck.

I am not you. I am mastina. I operate by my own principles, rules, standards, thought processes, etc. The way I think, though not standard, is very well documented, and frankly?

Notty should remember the LAST time that I was accused of faking rage.
(Hint: I wasn't. Double hint: I was town. Triple hint, it technically wasn't the latest time I've raged as town, but it IS among the most infamous times I've raged as town. There's damn good reason that I am saying notty can fuck off, because notty SHOULD know fucking better.)

This is a search of all the games I've played in the Micro, Mini Theme, and Large Theme forums.

The last time I was accused of faking rage was in this game. (As a reminder: I

ate a ban

from that game--not fake. Also not scum. I was town.) It is not actually the game that notty would be familiar with.
Honorable mention: MBOS 4 I ate a warning. Not a ban but also not fake. And also not scum; I was town. I don't expect notty to be familiar with it tho.

I was also accused of faking rage in this game as well. I was town. But that's not the game notty should know I don't fucking fake rage from.

The most infamous example of me being accused of raging as scum?

Tales of You.

I refuse to believe that notty has forgotten one of the most infamous fucking games of all time. It's literally one of THE most iconic (in many bad ways) mafia games OF ALL TIME.

Did notty erase the memory of the town's incompetence that notty contributed to by eliminating the players with the highest read accuracy, myself included, that game?

Because I sure as fuck remember it.

The rage very much was there.

And very much was real.

And very much from town.

The closest I've ever gotten to raging as scum I'm pretty sure was Anything (fucking) Goes, and that was entirely different in tone, nature, etc. and largely with the help of my hydra buddy who was doing the VAST majority of the posting that game. Like, maybe 5% of the hydra's posts were mine? But it was mostly Katsuki.

Do you know what the biggest tell on my bloody flowchart is? The tell that is, above all tells, the tell that has the

absolute highest accuracy rate

of ANY of the items on the flowchart listed here?

It's quite literally, scumastina cannot rage, but town mastina can and does, to a dangerous, I-never-know-if-I-might-eat-a-game-ban levels of vitriol.

she insults people more as town (increasing the strength of related towntells), and she rages more as town (increasing the strength of that towntell)

I've explained the reasons for this across multiple games. I can track it down both as scum and town and in Mafia Discussion, but it's more than just my philosophy on playing scum involves "don't make enemies. You need the town to like you, because push come to shove if the choices are to eliminate a player people like versus eliminate a player people have issues with, they'll usually take the latter". It's more than that being the optimal play. It's more than just thinking that scum need to manipulate the town into being their allies, rather than antagonize them and make them enemies.

While that's all true, there's a bigger reason I cannot rage as scum.

Fuck theory.

I can subvert theory all I want.

The reason I can't rage as scum is because

I fundamentally cannot think that way as scum

.
How can I be angry at the town being correct on me?

I can, and do, get mad at players being "Right, For the Wrong Reasons".
It'd take some time to find, but I can track down being angry at players being right in their read but wrong in the reason and me being scum in that game.
Because that's genuine anger at a very real cause: an attack on the very principles I operate on.

For instance, saying I'd lie about real life circumstances to gain an advantage as scum (which people have done to me) is tantamount to outright accusing me of cheating, of lying, of being a rl scumbag, of going against the very things I stand for as a person and a player. It is questioning my integrity as an individual, it is doubting my principles and accusing me of being in violation of them.

Because I have VERY strong principles I operate on. These are not trust tells because they apply regardless of alignment. These are things that I fundamentally operate on as beyond just being a player, but being a person. A core aspect of my character. I have my own set of rules and regulations and principles. They largely align with the site, but I have some rules the site does not. (And at times, have violated rules that aren't violations to me but which the site considers to be.)

That

I can do.

But being accused of being scum for reasons that I know are more right than wrong or outright correct?

I literally

cannot

manage to be angry at that. After all--it's an accusation I know is right. It's an accusation that I see where they're coming from, know why they are seeing it, and while it can be frustrating that they are right, they're still RIGHT, I KNOW they're right, and

cannot

get angry at them.

I also cannot really get mad at the town for mislimming a townread of mine when I am scum--unless said town goes on to violate my principles, at least. Showing disrespect to the dead, blaming the dead exclusively and saying it's entirely their fault, etc. Things like that, I can get mad at the town for because it's genuinely honestly fucking disgusting.

But if the town

isn't

violating my principles with a mislim.

I can't get angry at it.

Because, again, as scum, I am genuinely more in the mindset of, "Girls Giggles Genocide". (Again, don't expect any living player to get that reference, but Gamma Emerald should.)
Which is, to say: I laugh my ass off as scum.

I might loathe drawing scum, but I still have a blast in it. I HATE being scum, but I still make the most out of being scum by basically hamming it up and loving the grandiose nature of having all the info and watching the town eat itself alive because they don't. Like the Among Us players the term originates from, as scum, I love playing the part of the villain, watching the town accuse each other, and laughing at the events going on with my extra knowledge.

So how can I get angry at the town furthering my own wincon? Town eliminating town is literally helping me.

I fundamentally

cannot

be genuinely angry, nor can I fake rage.



But I can go even further in showing why I am not scum.


If I am scum, there's two optimal usages of my role.
1: Not announcing it at all, and then having a scumbuddy silently target me with an ability to make me a backup of the scum with that ability, so that it catches the town off-guard.
2: Announcing it deliberately, and then avoiding having scum target me at all, hoping to pick up a useful town ability.

Neither strategy is necessarily more optimal than the other, but the two above are mutually exclusive. If you do one, you cannot do the other and have it be optimal; mixing the two is literally the

worst

thing you can do.

That said, option #1 is imo slightly stronger and more optimal.

You can argue that, me being mastina, I opted for option #2. I either didn't think of option #1 until after the fact, or considered option #2 to be better for towncred.

But then that runs into a problem: Dwlee targeted me N1.

Mixing town and scum targeting me is the exact worst possible combo, because it means I don't get a guaranteed copy of the scum role and the scum role that

should

be used elsewhere is being wasted on me instead of on others. Especially with certain town/scum role combos.

At this stage, for me to be scum, you need a lot of Coulds already to add up:
I COULD be a redundant scum role, when Gypyx's is a better version of mine.
I COULD have a role that has the really weird interactions with Gypyx's role while on the same team as Gypyx.
I COULD have the answers to these interactions in the scum PT and/or I COULD have been apathetic enough to have never asked about the interaction (in spite of it being mandatory for the mod, unless you want to argue that the mod COULD have not thought about the interaction and thus needed to improvise).
I COULD have not realized the optimal strategy was not claiming and/or I COULD have decided that the second strategy was overall more worth it.
I COULD have then had my entire scumteam not realize mixing the two strategies is the worst possible idea and that we needed to commit to one or the other and not mix-and-match. It COULD happen, in spite of the scumteam having imaginality (mechanics-focused), Gypyx (not a slouch on mechanics), me (very good at mechanics), and Woolax (decent at mechanics).

But then we get into D1.

I COULD have had an abnormal readslist for scumastina. (I have more to say about that, it was something I half-wrote but am probably going to save for a different post on a different day due to how much time this is taking and my tiredness levels.)
I COULD have had no scum north of null at all, and soft-distanced from the scum.

VOTE: woolax

For the record: I support the Woolax wagon and am incredibly tempted to vote there as I think the slot is scum.

But I kinda just wanna keep my vanity vote on SirCakez right now just as a statement that, no, I'm not joking with my scumread there; yes, I am serious; yes I think he is scum; yes I want to eliminate him.

But while that's all true, Woolax is also probably just scum so isn't a bad vote. In fact is explicitly a good vote that I support.

If the Woolax wagon were to die down in fact, I WOULD switch my vote there just to make sure it DIDN'T because I don't think the Woolax wagon SHOULD die down, I legit think that the Woolax wagon is probably the best wagon we can get today.

I'm just being stubborn and feel like my vote is best used elsewhere right now.

I COULD make this post as scum, as a way of distancing on Woolax without committing to the bus on them.
I should note however that while it'd take me time to locate, I've made this post in many many towngames of mine but absolutely ZERO scumgames of mine.
I COULD have this as my first scumgame where I used this tactic.

Mastina vote Dwelee, thanks.

How about we

don't

vote the player who I think is so conftown that if someone claimed a guilty on them I'd vote the person claiming the guilty?

Dwlee's my strongest townread.

I COULD make this post as scum to hard-commit to defending my scumbuddy, in spite of the guilty on them.
I COULD make this statement as scum in spite of it being

another

statement I've said in multiple towngames (again, could track down, but would take some time) yet never have said in any scumgame ever.
I COULD genuinely try to save my scumbuddy there.
I COULD have set up the interactions where I fake soft-picking up on Dwlee's role/actions.
I COULD fake not knowing that Dwlee wasn't the role I got, and/or genuinely make the mistake of not realizing it wasn't Dwlee's action I got.
I COULD retract my defense of Dwlee and hard-commit to the bus after it was clear that Dwlee was in fact guilty.
I COULD have pushed imaginality before there was pressure on imaginality.
I COULD have pushed imaginality on POE instead of more damning aspects.
I COULD have pushed imaginality on the Pooky push from him, instead of the shit roleclaim.
I COULD have faked not noticing his roleclaim. Or I COULD have genuinely not noticed it.
I COULD have then, after seeing things, not tried to save imaginality and backed up the town eliminating there.

And there's another thing:

Callout:
What the fuck, guys.

Unless the mods failed to notify me (I did ask them about this to be sure), literally nobody targeted me? Like. I literally TOLD y'all that I can duplicate a power if targeted by it. But as far as I can tell, literally nobody did.

Y'all are Dragon Tails / Circle Throwers / Whirlwinds in reverse. (I hope the intended meaning comes through.) I wasn't lying about my role so I do mean it; you SHOULD be targeting me if you have a strong role.

(That said, I suppose it's possible Gypyx targeted me and his role prevents me from using my role but oh well, only the mods know.)

I COULD have genuinely not received the info as scum that I should have received, but more than that, check out the bolded.
Story time: I was skimming the flips. I wasn't on my phone but I think that I was in a rush?

I actually thought Gypyx had flipped town at first.

I initially read Gypyx's flip as being a member of the town.

I didn't realize that Gypyx was a member of Team Rocket, so I read his role and I thought he was town with it when I made this post.

No, seriously.

Nobody noticed this the entire game apparently. I was expecting with us being down to one scum or so for someone to look at this and go "did mastina scumslip here by mentioning Gypyx interacting with her role when Gypyx was scum and his role couldn't interact with town?". But actually it's the opposite; I genuinely townslipped here hard by having initially misread Gypyx's flip as being town. I was confused when people mentioned Gypyx being a good Vig because I legit initially thought that Gypyx was a town modified UB, and it wasn't until some time later that I went back to reread and realized I had misread and that Gypyx was scum, not town, as I had initially mistakenly thought.

So I COULD be scum who is bullshitting this townslip.
I COULD be scum who genuinely scumslipped there.

And beyond that.

I COULD have executed on my "when everyone looks town, SOMEONE needs to not be town" philosophy--but I will say that I've had dozens of towngames where I have pushed that philosophy and pushed eliminations based off of it (including on big town players like Battle Mage and Lady Lambdadelta--probably most infamously, Team Mafia 2021 this year had me espousing this philosophy on D1)...
...And I've never once pushed for an elimination based off of that philosophy as scum.
"But wait, mastina...didn't you use it in Chrono Trigger?"
Well, actually--no. I didn't. I

outlined

my philosophy there. I laid out the actual methods I use as town--but if you read the game, I didn't push anyone using that philosophy. I MENTIONED the philosophy. I OUTLINED the philosophy. To this day, that game is actually probably the best explanation of what boils down to "everyone looks town, but SOMEONE needs to not be, so treat it appropriately and doubt all the town" basically. But while I

explained

the philosophy, I never

used

it that game.

This game COULD be the first scumgame that I did so.

And that's aside from the additional things I've gone into since then.
I COULD have had an insane boost in my postcount compared to my normal scumgame.
I COULD have phoneposted at work in spite of the fact that I never have done so as scum before.
I COULD have somehow faked rage. (Well no, not really, I really can't.)

I COULD have magically somehow upped the quality of my scumgame, to have it be higher than even peak scumastina performance levels, in spite of the fact that I've been in a scum slump for literally three years.

And this is probably not even all of the COULDs.

I've probably got more things that I could point out that are town-me and not scumastina, which add to the list of COULDs.

But how many COULDs does it take you before you begin to realize that any theory with me as scum is a violation of Occam's Razor never before seen in its absurdity? (Well aside from maybe the absurd accusations of me being scum in games like the two Jingle games because those were equally horseshit Occam's Razor violations.)

One or two COULDs could be true.

But how many COULDs does it take before the 'could' becomes 'basically impossible'? I counted ~30-35 COULDs added up in the above.

So how many COULDs does it take to clear me from being scum?

[mastina]

Oh something I meant to include in 6378 but didn't remember to is a basic explanation for why I don't phonepost as scum.
I was going to do detailed explanation in the post but since I've focus elsewhere now I'll boil it down to the essentials:
1: On a phone, I can't both check the game thread and check the scum PT. I'm forced to choose between one and the other. This causes obvious problems, especially paired with...
2: On a phone, whenever I read logged in, I lose my place on the 'latest post' button (the orange button) that I click. (The first unread post link does the same thing.) This is doubly true for

posting

on the phone--because the site recognizes your submitted post as you catching up on the entirety of the thread, it's easy to lose your place.
3: The two compound to mean that if I

did

try to do both, the constant switch would make me lose my place too easily and cause too many delays--given I only have half an hour

at most

when phoneposting, every. second. counts.
4: scumastina is methodical in what she says. Phoneposting doesn't allow for being methodical, ESPECIALLY not with phone glitches. If I have PERFECT efficiency I MIGHT be able to say what I want, but being logged off and losing everything I just wrote, inserting random letters in random spots, deleting random letters in random spots, etc., are all issues I've had with phoneposting for years and they break the methodology scumastina likes to employ.
5: And why go through that effort in the first place? Why bother doing the work? I don't care about my scumgames these days but even when
I did I didn't phonepost, because not only the above, but also:
Being at work is the perfect excuse to

not

contribute.
Nobody (except for utter assholes) expects you to post in a mafia game while you're at work, so that gives scumastina the perfect excuse to slack off.
Or rather, to read offline, and plan what to post when she gets home. Maybe even pre-write a post on paper to type up when she gets home from work.

Phoneposting is actively detrimental to scumastina's style and is not worth the time/effort especially when she doesn't need to and frankly, doesn't care to.

But, with that out of the way:

Pooky and Mastina need to cross vote.

Respectfully, no.

If I was

sure

that it was Pooky, then Titus's desire to have a no lim be damned, I'd be voting Pooky here.

But one of the reasons I am so enticed by sheeping Titus's no-lim here (even if SirCakez does bite the bullet) is specifically because I am

not

sure.

I don't really see how SirCakez could be scum but his death to remove any/all paranoia would be helpful.

And if not? If he doesn't die?

Then I die instead of him, in which case: thank fucking god, I don't have to actually solve the damn game. (I should say that I'm pretty sure my 3p lylo record as town is flawless with me always winning when town, but it's stressful as fuck and I really don't like to actually be forced to. I usually prefer to just either be nightkilled or for the scum to 1v1 me--the latter's not happening this game so my only shot at washing my hands of responsibility is the former.)

And just waiting out the timer gives time for the conftown, both SirCakez AND Titus, to solve, not to mention, gives ME time to put the work in.

While I

lean

towards it being Pooky, I don't

know

it's Pooky here, and I DO want to put in the work that I have a basically unlimited amount of time to do. I have, what, almost four weeks' worth of time total?

By now I've wasted at least a week of that time so it's closer to two weeks at most, and slacking off is something I always have issues with because I am a notorious procrastinator. Still, tho, while I'll never do everything I

want

to do, I still have the chance to do

more

by running the clock out as long as possible.

So I'd prefer to take my time, here.

I

do

have more to say RE: Pooky, but I'm too tired to actually post it now.

I'll post this much tho.

Pooky will be very miffed that I'm saying I lean towards him being scum and am not saying why but I'm sorry Pooky, I WILL explain my reasons for leaning towards you being the scum when able to and give you the chance to properly address them talk them out etc. as these reasons aren't a lock case, they're explicitly things that add up to a

lean

. Lean's like...less than 60%. (As in, if 50/50 was dead even, a lean is 59% or less, as in, 51-59%, but not 60+%.)

I just am...well, pretty damn tired right now, can't do it right now + we have the time so you can wait for the explanation even if you're annoyed at the suspicion.

[mastina]

...No? Mastina isn't confirmed, so there's merit in it. I'm well aware that saying this stuff can piss them off and cause them to retaliate vote me. Still gunna do it.

Bookmarking this, as it is important to my Pooky lean.
(Also as a reminder, the post where I used reminder words like 'mirror'? Also part of the Pooky lean.)

[mastina]

I still don't follow how town you comes to the conclusion that I'm harder to read than Mastina tho.
Like we're both equally terrible scum. So. Arguably I'm worse scum actually. It's one of the reasons I think you're scum Pooky, I don't think either of us have looked scummy this game from a bird's eye view.
I'm aware Notty disagreed, but like, yeah.

Bookmarking this, as it is important to my Pooky lean.

[mastina]

Funnily enough your accuracy and propensity to be on scum wagons is a point against you because the rest of us look like clowns in comparison and towns tend to look more clownish as a result of their ignorance of who is and isn't scum.

e.g., Koba pushing at us and then 180'ing on to you because they sorted us.

Bookmarking this, as it is DOUBLY part of my Pooky lean.
(The second is Koba related.)

I should clarify for Pooky: what Bell is saying isn't part of the Pooky lean; what Bell is saying is convenient segues into my reasons for the Pooky lean. As in, "when I get the chance to write it up, refer to these posts to explain my lean".

[mastina]

I still don't follow how town you comes to the conclusion that I'm harder to read than Mastina tho.
Like we're both equally terrible scum. So. Arguably I'm worse scum actually. It's one of the reasons I think you're scum Pooky, I don't think either of us have looked scummy this game from a bird's eye view.
I'm aware Notty disagreed, but like, yeah.

I think you're a better scum player than Mastina because when I see people give you advice I see you can actually take that advice.

Mastina literally can't.

Not quite true;
Most advice I get, I already do behind the scenes.

Usually, it goes:
Advisor: "do x".
Me: I do, *explains how I do x*
Advisor: *radio silence* or "well you're clearly a lost cause".

There are limitations where I literally CANNOT do it, obviously, so if I am advised to do something that I literally CAN'T do, it's not helpful.

If I can't do it or I already do, the advice is useless, but if I can do it and don't? It actually IS useful.

[mastina]

I have no idea why you think my scum game has improved a single millimeter, the more likely argument is just that you can't backtrack and you're stuck.
Also, congratulations I go back to work tomorrow morning.

But yeah, I'm not satisfied with this as my elo play, but I can't do more. I wish I could.
The rest of the town just has to bring this across the finish line. I can't do the focused assessment stuff more, even though there's a ton there. I wish I had infinite time. It would, well I could have been a lot more productive if I had just committed to doing more.

Oh well.

Bookmarking this as it's important to the Pooky lean.

[mastina]

Milo why did you abandon your mastina push? because I said I wouldn't vote her?

A) if she is scum I can rest peacefully knowing that this game isn’t my fault
B) Pookys push on us is actually awful (still waiting for him to provide examples instead of general statements)
C) Pooky literally hasn’t reevaluated once, which should tell you that he came into melo with the express decision to 1v1 off what everyone else said yesterday. He literally went and checked mastina posting frequency but hasn’t tried to point out EXACTLY where we are BSing.

Bookmarking this as it's important to the Pooky lean.

[mastina]

A) if she is scum I can rest peacefully knowing that this game isn’t my fault
B) Pookys push on us is actually awful (still waiting for him to provide examples instead of general statements)
C) Pooky literally hasn’t reevaluated once, which should tell you that he came into melo with the express decision to 1v1 off what everyone else said yesterday. He literally went and checked mastina posting frequency but hasn’t tried to point out EXACTLY where we are BSing.

Why would I re-evaluate when I've literally never been wrong on Mastina once.

She is not going to break her meta to win a scum game

She hates playing scum lol.

She'd rather be able to say at endgame that she can't be scum because of _______ than survive and win a scum game.

It's all about incentives.

She literally has no incentive to break her meta.

Whereas you are trying to get better and not be a one dimensional scumnub who gets yeeted easy every time you roll red.

This is wrong, tho I'll have to be home to explain why.

That Pooky is saying this though is important to the Pooky lean.

[mastina]

like that peta comparison Bell made is so on point

cuz Peta is a tryhard 200 mph player who actually gives a shit about winning etc and is willing to sacrifice his left hand to win a game.

I honestly just want my scum team to have a good time and chill and have fun.

If I was scum with gypyx I'd be coaching him and having a good time with him, you should know this since you were literally in the scum discord with me/him in tenet dude

I want to raise the question tho.

What stops it from being an entire scumteam call?

How long between SirCakez asking and Pooky answering Gypyx?

Was there time for Gypyx, Dwlee, and imaginality to chime in on the choices?

[mastina]

It should be noted before I go that Mastina has little reason to suspect or question pooky as scum. It would be easier for her just to let pooky lose the game for town. But that’s sort of conjecture. Just a random thought, but I sort of feel like I’m conf biasing there maybe.

-Bell

Bookmark Pooky lean.

[mastina]

BTW re: Pooky coaching/defending scumbuddies, I'd like to ask: what COULD Pooky do?

Woolax died before Pooky replaced in.
Gypyx was killed by the Vig. (Yes, said Vig was Pooky, but I have my concerns about clearing him for this.)

Dwlee was cop guiltied by the playerslot who is un-1v1able. What could Pooky do to prevent the Dwlee elimination?

Imaginality was the only slot Pooky could have helped, but we caught imaginality in large part due to a botched fakeclaim, which was botched in a way that Pooky could not have known about the ways it was botched.

Pooky might like to coach and defend scumbuddies, but doing so in this game was quite impossible for him.

[mastina]

WAIT I JUST HAD A BREAKTHROUGH WITH THE VIG ON GYPYX.

I THINK that IT COULD be a CASE of SCUM FU CKING UP A GAMBIT.

will explain latero.

[mastina]

WAIT I JUST HAD A BREAKTHROUGH WITH THE VIG ON GYPYX.

I THINK that IT COULD be a CASE of SCUM FU CKING UP A GAMBIT.

will explain latero.

Basically.
We've been assuming the whole time that Pooky intentionally said to Vig Gypyx and that the death of Gypyx was an intentional gambit, if Pooky is scum.

…But I can think of no less than FIVE different ways that it could be ACCIDENTAL.

Pooky is right that him vigging Gypyx goes against standards.

But if it was an accident, the Pooky scum narrative changes from,
"Pooky vigged a partner deliberately, going against meta", to:
Pooky was in his meta, scum just made a mistake, with Pooky as conftown being damage control".

Which is more plausible to me.