Open 832: Nightless Exploder Pandemonium III - Game Over

[innocentvillager]

it feels like an uphill battle getting reads when 70% of the plist isn't even trying to play the game but whatever i will still try. i wanted a green role PM after a miserable scum streak and here it is lol. there's always rereading i guess

[numberQ]

of course it's when I feel like shit physically that this game gets active. Not sure I'll be catching up tonight. But from a quick skim I see there's a new wagon on Pooky I'm not sure I understand, which may be because my brain is only semi-functional right now. Also I'm flabbergasted that NO ONE else sees Pav as scum? Maybe I'm tunneling too hard but I just keep seeing a scum mindset behind his posting.

I looked through their ISO after reading this, but I don't see the continuous scum mindset you're seeing behind his posts. Can you please explain that a lot more?

My 248 steps through his early posting. After that, the only thing that I feel looks remotely townie is his 448.

But idk. I'm losing confidence in the read, I was excited at first because I thought I saw something but it kind of feels like I'm shouting into a void since it's getting drowned out by other discussions. I feel totally of whack with the rest of the town, everyone's got some massive obsession with the cows wagon while I haven't felt particularly strongly about it aside from a townread on cows because of how he's handled it. Meanwhile I feel a lot more strongly about Pav's slot but nobody else seems to.

[innocentvillager]

i really can't fault anyone for not trying bc this is kind of just a meme game lol

i skimmed cows's iso again

meh it's like fine idk i still don't have a strong opinion on it

schadd are there other particular posts that you think are potentially reflective of the scum mindset you described?

one thing i did feel is: i don't think anyone like strongly townreads him or has really expressed much of an opinion about him so i think the fact that his tone and playstyle isn't really changing throughout all of that is like slightly town!indicative

in the scum!cows hypothetical land im wondering if his partner equity with numberQ is actually fairly high, he WK'd numberQ a decent amount and put a bunch of specific thoughts on him and even sort of tried to incept the idea into my mind that my vote on numberQ at the time was unreasonable, but that easily could've just been town!cows going "i put some real thoughts im proud of and you didn't really consider it"/he was actually trying to read me still so im not sure

yeah i don't think scum!cows WKs town!numberQ like that since numberQ was the second highest wagon and cows was in danger of getting run up again, so if cows is scum numberQ is probably also scum

[Clemency]

it feels like an uphill battle getting reads when 70% of the plist isn't even trying to play the game but whatever i will still try. i wanted a green role PM after a miserable scum streak and here it is lol. there's always rereading i guess

i just want you to know i think you're a darling

[innocentvillager]

@numberQ why exactly are you losing confidence in the read? just because no one else has been sheeping you on it?

pedit: <3

[innocentvillager]

okay down let's talk about Pavowski because that's the topic that you seem most engaged in right now, there could be merit to your suspicion now that im relooking all this

Kind of doing this piecemeal, so there may be more I want to comment on between my last post and this one. Wanted to get this out though.

VOTE: cows

The vote on strange makes no sense, and somehow putting Clem and Strange on similar footing here also makes no sense

Gonna move my vote due to this post. A50 feels like a dead end anyway, didn't really get a reaction like I wanted other than what looks like OMGUS retaliation. Which, maybe a scumtell? But eh I don't think so. Plus, after some reflection I think it's just his posting style that I struggle to understand. Which is not necessarily scummy.

Pav on the other hand is pinging me hard with this one. Made me look through his iso, and every single post can come from a scum or null POV. Very little looks town-oriented imo.

ISO 0-3 are RVS or contentless, which is fine for early game.

ISO 4 is him giving me town points because I basically said "everyone's shitposting so what do?" Not sure I get why that's +town. I was not under too much scrutiny at the time aside from a single vote from A50, so this feels like scum!Pav pretending to analyze.

ISO 5 is unvoting Clem, I assume because RVS was over. Null.

ISO 6 is giving out a few vague yet fairly popular reads. Again, scum pretending to analyze without rocking the boat.

ISO 7 + 8 are null.

ISO 9 is the one I quoted at the top of the post, and it feels so weird. Why does the Strange vote make no sense? I mean, okay, I was kind of saying the same thing in my last post when I found it odd that cows was analyzing me so much then turned around to vote Strange. But Pav doesn't mention that at all, for some reason it's cows mentioning Clem that is suspicious? I don't buy it. This is scum!Pav finding a reason to jump on a wagon.

ISO 10 is null.

ISO 11 + 12 is IIOA. Scumtell only with other scummy context, which in this case, means it's a scumtell.

VOTE: Pavowski

Is anyone getting a different read from Pav's ISO?

so i already remember getting slightly pinged by Pav's early ISO and i think these are fair points, and the fact that i vaguely recall having similar thoughts about all of the posts you have a problem with so that's +town to you actually lol for me.

4 is weird because i got the exact opposite read on your post there (88), it looked like a really shallow analysis from you and that was actually the reason i voted you, so when he said you were town for that it was kinda weird. if you also think it's weird then maybe it actually is +scum, and your narrative of him just wanting to fake analysis could make sense. But if we assume you're town then id also put a similar weight on your post there, so just from that townies can do that kind of analysis too

6 vaguely pingy but i have no concrete reason for this

9 was sheepy at the time and pinged me too, which is why i asked why he just voted him straight up without trying to ask cows to make sense of it "I can't understand what you did so im going to just you!!"

i don't really agree that 11 and 12 are scummy, i think engaging with the mech play discussion is fine bc this is an important unique feature of this game and something i spent a lot of time doing

going a little past when you made your initial post

i liked his 13-15 sequence, i think that's when i started to reevaluate on pav. i think this energy has been relatively consistent (the "let's just pressure people normally and not be so worried about killing people energy").

i don't think the initial outburst (13) is something scum would go out of their way to do for no reason. you can argue that it was just scum!him trying to persuade people to quickelim town!cows but i think it reads as real frustration that was relatively in line with what he said earlier about pressuring people and it didn't end up affecting any change at all

he even clarifies and backtracks a little in 14 and 15 which i don't feel scum feel the need to do, i think they just double down on what they say in order to get cows killed if that's the agenda

i think the 19-20 sequence is more just kind of consistent with the overall vibe and energy he is giving off. not the content but the response to clemency getting heated about the game was definitely an actual reaction - i think he was genuinely disappointed to see clem votepark pooky like that. Now that might not seem like it's town!indicative, but two scenarios here: a) pooky is town b) pooky is scumpartner. In scenario a) don't think pav genuinely gets disappointed there. In scenario b) think he would've tried harder to get clem to unvote pooky; if it's a partner defense he kind of half committed and but didn't do anything actionable. idk it's possible though

also i felt the analysis there was fair and nonpostury. the comment about the braves game at the end made it seem like that was an actual emotional inhibitor towards his reads which i don't think scum actually experience because they're faking the reads so don't think he would've mentioned that as an excuse if he was scum.

i feel the remaining pav posts are pretty null.

tl;dr i agree with you that some of the early iso sticks out as potentially pingy, though all of it is still well within someone's townrange imo. i think some of his iso gets redeemed in the later 13-15 and 19-20 progressions. he's given a very similar and consistent emotional energy throughout the iso that i personally feel would be effortful to fake (but not impossible), and his stances seem to weave consistently throughout his reasoning. im okay with him as a townlean here still

[Pavowski]

it is weird that cows has posted so much and i can't get a read off him on dayplay

Reading over discussion of cows from last evening and this resonates with me the most. Reason I could still vote cows is because I keep hoping I'll get a stronger town read and it keeps not coming.

But cows could very well still be town here, I remember having similar thoughts in the newbie game cows linked. For whatever reason I think it may be something in Cows's tone or style that makes me nervous.in the absence of something more concrete

[Pavowski]

it feels like an uphill battle getting reads when 70% of the plist isn't even trying to play the game but whatever i will still try. i wanted a green role PM after a miserable scum streak and here it is lol. there's always rereading i guess

i just want you to know i think you're a darling

I wish I could just "like" posts sometimes

[cowsloveSushirolls]

my vote very likely doesn't end on pavow today but i think there's a lot of people that "out-town" him so he's still in my b6 by poe
if that makes sense

[Pavowski]

my vote very likely doesn't end on pavow today but i think there's a lot of people that "out-town" him so he's still in my b6 by poe
if that makes sense

Spoiler:

This is totally off the topic and indicative of nothing but you've chosen the weirdest shortening of my name I can imagine

I miss palling around with you in the thread like we did in that newbie game, next game I promise to TR you on d1

[cowsloveSushirolls]

Spoiler:

This is totally off the topic and indicative of nothing but you've chosen the weirdest shortening of my name I can imagine

I miss palling around with you in the thread like we did in that newbie game, next game I promise to TR you on d1

Spoiler:

same!

[Not_Mafia]

charlemagne has been prodded. He has 24 hours to post before being replaced.

[Not_Mafia]

VC 1.13

Pavowski (1)-

numberQ

schadd_ (0)-

T3 (1)-

StrangeMatter

innocentvillager (0)-

charlemagne (0)-

cowsloveSushirolls (2)-

PookyTheMagicalBear, charlemagne, schadd_

PookyTheMagicalBear (4)-

T3, Clemency, Almost50, innocentvillager

Enchant (0)-

numberQ (0)-

StrangeMatter (1)-

cowsloveSushirolls

Almost50 (1)-

Pavowski

Clemency (0)-

Not Voting (1)-

Enchant

With

12

alive, it takes

7

to instantly eliminate.

Deadline is in

(expired on 2021-10-30 21:00:00)

- Oct 30th 21:00 GMT

[Pavowski]

[charlemagne]

deepest apologies school has been a pain lately and in complete honesty i forgot about ms

what the fuck is going on
my gut wants to assign a high probability to the chance that one of {pooky, clem} is scum and out of those two i think it's more likely to be pooky but i'm not sure i can trust that gut read

why are you still voting cows if thats true

because i didn't think i could trust the read
but honestly? now i can. VOTE: pooky.

i cant believe y'all are seeing scum literally go "no no i wanna do this thing that's extremely detrimental to town for memes" and you're all just cool with that

townposting

i cant believe y'all are seeing scum literally go "no no i wanna do this thing that's extremely detrimental to town for memes" and you're all just cool with that

yeah
hell he's going to do in d2 as mafia
or are you saying that because he's deliberately giving himself a free d1 pass thatll be accepted from the majority of the players here
which if so is def plausible but walk me through why that possibility outweighs the other ones

when i began trying to lay out the things i wanted to have happen day two it was when i was still trying to figure out how to play around the setup and i assumed day would end soon since it happened to in the last two games of this
now that things are more unsure and unclear scum wants two things
-to end day one with a town kill
-to make day two as unorganised as possible
the best move for me would have been to not say anything about day two actions at all, but i didn't realize that until i'd already gone into that
from there, the best possible move is to have as concise a plan as possible, which was that

I

would be the bomb and

I

would commit because

I

was the dumbass that spoke up first and too early
which exactly why scum would want to obfuscate a clear course of action as much as possible
A50 is saying he wants to explode too because A50 is just a not_mafia who talks more but beyond that "memes lol" is the perfect cover for scum to do whatever the hell they want this game

i think that clem is town this game and that means i think pooky is scum because i am more confident in my gutread of SvT
playing frustrated town is i think significantly harder than most people think and i feel that this would be more obvious

im unsure about the assertations of being a stronger player lategame when you vowed to explode early and are now self-voting now
but can i glean any AI information about that? probably not. you town bro?

Let me go from last to start:

YES, I am TOWN here.

Now ask anyone who has played 5+ games with me and they will tell you that I am indeed a better player towards the end of the game. Info + mechanics help me solve much much more than gut and feel.

This game is NOT A CONVENTIONAL GAME. There are NO MECHANICS TO BE REVEALED. There will be no "interactions", no VCA.. etc. It's a meme. literally a guessing game. I don't believe I will have better reads if I last longer, because the one who will explode is most likely a TOWN PLAYER, so theor choice doesn't give me any additional info (except for theirs and their target's flip). Like, let's say I could explode now and I choose to target X (feel free to replace X with the player of your choice). I flip green and X flips (again, consider both cases). Now what does that tell you about Y & Z?

fairly confident in a50 town

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i think that clem is town this game and that means i think pooky is scum because i am more confident in my gutread of SvT
playing frustrated town is i think significantly harder than most people think and i feel that this would be more obvious

rofl

[numberQ]

@numberQ why exactly are you losing confidence in the read? just because no one else has been sheeping you on it?

pedit: <3

Not that I haven't been sheeped, but that there hasn't been any discussion at all on what I thought were several salient points. I appreciate your 605 a lot, I think it's helped me slightly untunnel. Looking at some of his later posts with an attempt at fresh eyes...

ISO 13 could kind of feel like bored town, like most of the player list. But at the same time, as has been often stated scum WANT the "pandemonium" part of the name to come true. So can this really be a towntell? Seems equally likely to be bored town as calculating scum imo.

I actually like ISO 27-29, how he reacted to the A50 selfvote. I don't really have a fully formed opinion of A50, but the selfvote struck me as weird and I think Pav put that into words well here.

Everything else I think I already commented on in other posts, or it's fluff.

i think the 19-20 sequence is more just kind of consistent with the overall vibe and energy he is giving off. not the content but the response to clemency getting heated about the game was definitely an actual reaction - i think he was genuinely disappointed to see clem votepark pooky like that. Now that might not seem like it's town!indicative, but two scenarios here: a) pooky is town b) pooky is scumpartner. In scenario a) don't think pav genuinely gets disappointed there. In scenario b) think he would've tried harder to get clem to unvote pooky; if it's a partner defense he kind of half committed and but didn't do anything actionable. idk it's possible though

I think scenario a) is 100% possible, scum need some townreads so if scum!Pav has decided that's Pooky, it could be entirely performative that he's "disappointed" in Clem's voting. And I do not think they are scum together.

---

Anyway all that is to say, Pav is still pretty scummy on my readlist, but if the wagon's not going anywhere then it's not going anywhere. And I want to try and take the blinders off so maybe it's time to look at someone else. That someone else is charle, because I'm really not seeing the logic in 614, to the point that it's pinging me.

[numberQ]

His ISO opens with a serious vote on cows for what I can agree was a weird unvote.

ISO 1 townreads IV for his setup analysis post. I think it's an easy townread to make, so could be seen as fairly safe for scum to say to get towncred. On the other hand, charle is the first person to say as such, and even gives his own thoughts unlike some other people who townread IV for that post.

ISO 2-8 is a lot of giving out reads, which feels very town oriented. 6 in particular softens his townread of IV from ISO 1 (which I guess he did say was just "leantown" anyway). I'm not sure scum need to breadcrumb their townreads turning to scumreads in this setup like they do in others, so this seed of saying "IV is not conftown" strikes me as +town for charle.

ISO 10-13, he tunnels cows for a bit, though his language in 13 is a lot weaker than previous posts. He was very gung ho about a cows elim, then in 13 he's unsure if cows is scum or just being set up. I looked at cow posts between 10 and 13 to see if a read change would make sense, and maybe?

ISO 14 begins the Pooky suspicions, seeming to base it on some relationship with Clem. No real explanation besides gut, which, okay.

Then finally ISO 15 sees townreads for Clem and A50, a SvT read on {Pooky, Clem}, which naturally leads to a vote on Pooky.

---

My read on charle is almost the opposite of Pav. I really like his initial posting, up to ISO 8. After that I feel a little less in sync with what he's saying. So overall I think he's town, but I'm still unsure how to feel about his Pooky vote.

@charle, can you elaborate on why Pooky v Clem is SvT? Also, do you no longer scumread cows, or are you just more confident about your Pooky scumread?

[charlemagne]

more confident about the pooky scumread

i'm not sure. it's largely a gut-based read which is why i didn't vote on it originally, but i don't think there's much i can say about why pooky is scum that hasn't already been said. i think that pooky's meming is more pervasive and less content-producing than i would expect to see from them in even this kind of game, and i'm surprised that has not changed even after clem started going at them for it.

[cowsloveSushirolls]

that marks the 4th town on pooky
feeling good

[cowsloveSushirolls]

i can not brainpower today, unsure why
but i unironically think that pookywagon is full of people that deserve to be called town (with the exception of i think t3 but they're not someone who i have looked at in a long time
and disregarding pooky who is not in my wagon schadd doesn't strike me as particularly scummy as their way of treating my slot doesn't feel malicious
which offers me the non-zero chance that pooky's lolcatting because of a scumteam that isn't helping
which is well, really specific and seemingly improbable as it's a 3 person pool but it quite literally can't be anyone else because of Mechanics idk
but also i feel like that's a shortcut i'm taking to stop solving today and bet on the game being scuffed so i will ignore that for a few days if you guys don't mind

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

that marks the 4th town on pooky
feeling good

this is so obviously scum lol

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i dunno how much harder cows can scumtell for you guys

it is p funny

[Almost50]

Hey, (s)Pooky: Do you have experience with cows? I tried to search for his name in your topics and it appears this is your first game together.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i dont care