Mini 2247: Mountain Dew Mafia (Game Over)

[Wisdom]

Why do you even need Critter to tell you what to comment on?

[Something_Smart]

I could look myself but it's easier for me if I'm more focused and it's more likely to be something someone cares about, so it sounds like a win-win.

[Wisdom]

I looked at a game where we were scumbuddies and you were right, your scum game is weaker than I thought
Exactly because you dont know what to say and you end up just being awkward or defensive
So much you look very much like that

[Wisdom]

So far*

[Something_Smart]

Wait, Baton Pass?

That was like my strongest scumgame ever :/

[Something_Smart]

But you're right, I've done absolutely nothing that I wouldn't do as scum.

[Something_Smart]

Which is why I'm looking for people who want to engage with me, but responses have not been very forthcoming...

[MUSHSHAGANA]

Well, that was depressing. I don't have food I can just sit down and cogitate with, I don't even have caffeine, and Something_Smart's ISO is Something_Ugly.

To be a bit more clear, it's almost as barren as StrangeMatter's ISO, but it also asks other players to direct pushes and rarely (if ever) takes any meaningful stance. A few things even seem to be pulled from elsewhere judging by how they're used and how they stand out against the general background radiation of lifelessly going through the motions. Going to say he's probable scum, but I'm willing to humor him for today, since he's committed to activity today.

My presence will be spotty for today myself, but I should be more present than I have earlier in the dayphase. For now, I have breakfast to cook. Don't get excited: my breakfast is Something_Depressing.

[Wisdom]

You should also do something_wise and stop voting me for something_dumb

[Gamma Emerald]

already answered that

I looked at your ISO and didn’t see anything like what I was looking for
What’s the objective scum motivation for Toog/kyouko pushing the IC? The best I can think of in this scenario is to discredit the Dunn push but you have Dunn as town

[Wisdom]

If the IC says stupid stuff like "Dunn is scum because he claimed his flavor" it gives scum space to attack them and fight them

That's precisely what I would do as scum

What's the motivation? Discredit a conftown, gain cred for actively posting stances, gain more cred for posting stances different than a conftown's

[Gamma Emerald]

That sounds fair enough
I don’t wanna unvote EMMI rn but I’m willing to vote kyouko down the line

[Something_Smart]

My opinion is that LLD saw she had IC and could barely contain herself, looking for literally anything to pick a fight just so she could go, "Hah!"

There's literally nothing in her claim to suggest scum Dunn, she just needs the bravado to sell it.

I think that this is +town. Maybe even ++town.

[Something_Smart]

Specifically I think it comes from the same point of frustration that my "sigh" came from, expressed in a very different way.

Unless Toog was scum with Dunn (in which case this post is just incredibly brave), having LLD reveal there is a godsend for scum, and I wouldn't expect them to be poking the beehive.

[Gamma Emerald]

Looking at S_S’s ISO, he kinda pings town in a few spots for now

[Something_Smart]

Looking at S_S’s ISO, he kinda pings town in a few spots for now

But you're right, I've done absolutely nothing that I wouldn't do as scum.

*raises eyebrow*

[Something_Smart]

I mean, I guess I have no way to know if 905 is true.

Can you elaborate on what posts you were thinking of?

[MUSHSHAGANA]

I can sorta see it. MAAAYBE.

Something_Smart, do you prefer the KISS principle or having as many pots boiling as you can manage, when it comes to mafia?

[Something_Smart]

In what sense? I definitely support keeping things simple wherever possible (when it comes to dayplay, anyway), but I'm not sure exactly what you mean by the boiling pots line or why that's the opposite of simplicity.

[Towelie]

Got a little time over lunch today so I'll start w/ talking to skitter about stuff and see where it takes me. I haven't really read in depth since ssbm entered.

re: Gamma. Glad we agree here. I feel pretty strongly about this one. Notty pointed out to me that Gamma had just rolled parity something in a different game, so if he's scum he may have gotten the idea from that, but I really doubt it, I think parity stuff is just on the rise in games lately.

Towelie - don't know yet. i think bork is easier for me to read of the 2 of them but he's feeling more ~muted~ than i saw the last couple of times i've played with him. like town-him was p obvious in perpetual elo, and once i knew what scum-him looked like was also very easy to pick out in tenet. i'm not seeing that here yet. nothing in particularly scummy, but nothing that i can really point to that makes me think town either.

I honestly feel like this is almost exactly like my tenet D1; mostly observation mode but picking up things where I could and generally starting to form reads around it without really being in 'attack mode' per se, but I don't really feel like harping on your take, perpetual ELO this isn't, for sure, but I also felt like there was a lot of meat there early game whereas here sans Dunn there really wasn't.

re: Mush. Obviously there's thought there, yes, but ultimately I'm having trouble I guess seeing MUSH push on things that seem like they matter as far as alignment is concerned vs like weird gotchas that don't ultimately mean anything. Like this most recent wisdom push I loathe because nobody goes, internally, "Well as a town player my role PM doesn't say X players are town with me, so therefore I should not be at all hyperbolic about the certainty of my reads" and therefore wisdom is scum.

EMMI: I guess I can see not liking the dunn vote, although I feel the dunn vote is internally consistent with EMMI's later 420 and I don't feel the lack of unvote is scummy. Ultimately still in my elim pool just due to lack of anything noteworthy, but having trouble finding the same scum motivations you're finding.

Dunn: really don't know. Probably would have a better handle on this read w/o the IC reveal (which I'm fine w/, but here's the one spot it suffers for me) just because it gave him one right thing to do as either alignment in aborting push. Still want Dunn meta-ers to like, you know, actually link some content either way beyond what I generally call "armchair meta" e.g. "he was / wasn't like this in X". I think that's lazy at best from a lot of slots.

M&M: I agree w/ everything you said in your post about them, but like, none of that seems like it's scummy other than the double-down, and my biggest issue was that there was a whole paragraph of qualifying non AI stuff before you got there. Even so, what is their objective here as scum other than pushing a read you don't agree with?

Edit: this is one of the first blurbs I wrote over this wall-ish post and seeing holistically where I came out elsewhere I'm a little more sympathetic to your read here. I'm not writing this slot off because I genuinely don't understand their motivation to act how they're acting atm, but I guess I don't see any obvious scum motivation here other than to maybe create a distraction which seems of limited utility to me. For people saying pooky is acting like bloodstained, people should probably realize that pooky was legitimately trying to get elimed in bloodstained because it skipped a day. We're not going to see him playing for that objective regardless of alignment. I generally feel like pooky becomes a little easier to read as the game goes on. Not much experience w/ noraa other than I was very frustrated w/ her slot in tenet before she repped out and was town. This feels pretty similar to me in that regard.

S_S: I am worried about being wrong on "being underwhelming" being a scumtell for S_S - you saw this firsthand in tenet, and I basically had the same (wrong) take there based on a prior encounter in illicit. I don't really know how to read S_S but I don't feel like he ever got to a point where he was "whelming" in tenet. Even in illicit he was probably limmable if I hadn't been an idiot and saw a PR tell that wasn't there. What meta stuff are you basing this off of?

agree on critter

I don't have any huge issues w/ StrangeMatter's content right now, really, other than there isn't a ton of it, but signal/noise ratio is pretty high.

agree on wisdom although I'm not super up to date on SSBM ISO just because there's a decent # of posts and most of it came in this weekend when I was limited to mobile. Rereading a lot of saturday/sunday stuff today.

Not throwing a vote down till notty and I sync on the day.

UNVOTE:

-b

[MUSHSHAGANA]

In what sense? I definitely support keeping things simple wherever possible (when it comes to dayplay, anyway), but I'm not sure exactly what you mean by the boiling pots line or why that's the opposite of simplicity.

Ah. I meant having a lot of different things going on. I tend towards trying to keep a lot happening, so I have a wide variety of angles to approach from fluidly. Your approach being more centered on simplicity does make it make sense that you would be stepping back a bit. I hope to see that change today.

[Towelie]

On pg 5 seems to me Dunn claimed Code Red truthfully, LLD saw it and thought it would be believable for Cabd to make Code Red a scum role, but she didnt realize that town gets mtn dew flavors. Now she's claiming her role cant exist if town only gets mtn dew flavors and my guess is that's because

she rolled a competitor and didnt connect that town would all be the tennessee original

VOTE: LLD

(notwithstanding the IC vote which I could see a lot of different ways to get to from both alignments)

I am having a hard time believing this take; one would have to like completely avoid reading their role PM or wincons or anything to have this kind of internal thought process, and moreover if you were to think about that assertion: if that really were the case where someone would have a competitor flavor and no fakeclaim of something else then this game would be breakable by flavor (which means it's probably wrong)

-b

[Towelie]

I think when easy lims are pushed that more often than not they're town. This has nothing to do with SM's posting, just based on my impression of the pushes on them.

how do you characterize the difference between the pushes on StrangeMatter (easy (mis)lim) vs the ones on Emmi (a scumread)?

-b

[Towelie]

random thought: I will say in our hydra game together skitter had a lot of "if X doesn't happen by Y for Z then slot is probably scum" so I know at least this genuinely is an approach she takes to solve certain slots which is probably a point in VFT favor

-b

[Something_Smart]

Ah. I meant having a lot of different things going on. I tend towards trying to keep a lot happening, so I have a wide variety of angles to approach from fluidly. Your approach being more centered on simplicity does make it make sense that you would be stepping back a bit. I hope to see that change today.

I'm pretty comfortable having multiple different things going on as once, as long as they are all individually easy to follow. But I am very rarely the one to actually bring about that state of affairs.

I believe my lack of engagement is first and foremost a product of RL. And I can assure you that the more people engage me and hold discussions that I am interested in engaging in (i.e. not shitfighting a la M&M/Gamma), the more content I'll be able to provide.