Open 834: Trust Fall - Game Over

[Tammy]

Hope you managed to squeeze in some rowing between heading and rereading fella

Grading yes, rowing no. In fact I’ve been lazy the past few days which probably explains my low energy.

I don’t feel terrible about enchant but I’ll come back in a few with some actual thoughts.

[Prism]

Lazy? On the weekend? Tammy, sister, how could you?

[Prism]

And it's okay I just had to leave the gym early because apparently some miscreants replaced whatever muscles I might have possessed with wet spaghetti over the weekend, my body was just not having it today

[Tammy]

Well, they both are hardtown regardless, mafia could just leave instantly.

What were you referring to with this? You had talked a bit about how people aren’t necessarily confirmed.

(I have an idea but I want to make sure I’m reading your thoughts correctly).

[Tammy]

For enchant I liked his untrust of me in real time. Other than that there’s not a whole lot to say yeah this is town! or not. Though his writing style is very similar to one of the players at my homesite (rip) and that gives me warm fuzzy vibes.

I know that’s unhelpful. SOrry about your noodle muscles. Blame the weather!

[Prism]

Nah, it's fine, not your job to carry me even though that's the dream

I'm home so I'll read some more I guess

[Prism]

I lied I'm watching TV but I've talked way too much the last 24 hours so it's other people's turn to play the mafia game and say important things

[Prism]

Also I'm going to go back to a purer time and channel a purer Magical Bear soul and forgo the more rigorous and thorough planning and appeals which are my forte

and leave a song, which is also my forte

[MafMen]

mafmen - I don't know who you are or think I know if you're an alt. There is someone who double posts a lot but I don't think you are them.

im losing my mind

[MafMen]

Yeah I think it’s going to be a game of a lack of reads. Sorry, not my finest hour. Just read madmen, enchant, infinity,cookie and klick and I don’t really have a smoking gun on any of them. I’m going to read prism and wisdom but I don’t have time for that tonight. I have a dentist appointment super early in the morning and need to go to sleep soon. I don’t think I have as late of a day tomorrow, so I’ll be around earlier.

I think that infinity/klick could have Scum, but I don’t feel really confident in that. I wish there was more from both.

Maf - you seemed to read wisdom town from early on even through your discussion with him, but then it seemed like you dropped him from your town reads after the pooky argument? Am I understanding that evolution correctly? If so, why did it drop?

I had cookie as a scumteam earlier but I’m hesitating on that.

i hope im not being pedantic again in saying this but he wasnt the only read that dropped at the time
the pooky v wisdom implosion left me completely lost so pretty much everyone in my reads except prism and pooky dropped to null, i eventually decided to act like that interaction never happened and go back to older reads

[Enchant]

Well, they both are hardtown regardless, mafia could just leave instantly.

What were you referring to with this? You had talked a bit about how people aren’t necessarily confirmed.

(I have an idea but I want to make sure I’m reading your thoughts correctly).

Refusing trust to trust with someone else benefit scum a bit.
Quiting game instead of trusting... Well, no. And probably bad decision, because you just replace to force replacement to instatrust. It's dumb and dishonorable.

[Wisdom]

That was just tw though, who was the other "hardtown"?

[Enchant]

PookyNowYdrseee. But i am here mostly lazy and writed them as town for a bit different reason.

[Prism]

I'm very worried now that there is scum in the block, if only because no one is even trying to break out of it. Perhaps both alignments are worried about the very perception of trying to break out of it.

I am very disappointed that Infinity/Klick have not given serious input into the blocks or made real forays into solving the game. I hope whoever is town is ready to shoulder the loss in 4 way.

[Tammy]

Ei had a crappy day on crappy sleep, so no ISO’s for me today. I’m hoping to be asleep shortly.

The game is stagnating though and I’m not entirely sure what to do about it. My thought was to ask you guys if anybody has a reason to think I shouldn’t leave with cookie or prism. I think those are my two trusts and maybe people will do something with more flips. But is there enough information if someone flips scum?

I don’t have as strong a town read on prism as I would like. I’m not sure if that’s a me issue as I haven’t been really invested myself and this game has been...weird, so I’m not sure how much to worry about this. I’m not sure how to describe what I was hoping to see that would give me confidence and the lack of it doesn’t necessarily mean scum, but I’m just rambling to say I’m not as confident as I’d like to be but that might mean nothing.

Tired mindless ramblings I know. I know that there was a bit of a poll to see if anybody had issues with certain people leaving or if everyone was onboard with the six, but I don’t know if everyone weighed in, but if you have thoughts for why I shouldn’t leave with prism or cookie, I’d love to hear them.

I’m sorry if none of this makes sense. I’m super tired!

[Prism]

Do you have a specific reason to be wary of me?

I'm going to be arrogant but direct: There's no reason to worry about my alignment anymore. Not a single player currently thinks I'm scum. No one is trying to get in the way of my pairing off. You could argue I'm splitting hairs over Enchant so I can leave, but there's no need. Wisdom wanted to leave with me tomorrow, so all I have to do is wait. If I'm scum with one of Wisdom/Enchant, maybe this extended distancing/demoralization would make some sense to really put the game away, but this is not only counterfactual but extremely tenuous and there's no reason to even raise the red flag. Wisdom's plan had me leaving with him, so that pairing especially should really go out the window.

And if my partner isn't Enchant/Wisdom, why am I even trying to leave? The final 4 is a coinflip shitshow with basically a 50% EV regardless of which of them my partner is. I don't do 50/50s. If there is even a ghost of a chance of losing the game, I will do whatever it takes to crush the town completely.

All of this should be enough to believe I am town, but even in a hypothetical world where none of the above is true, it is welldocumented that I am happy to demoralize and demotivate town and make the game unfun to play. If scum-me wants to get out, it's probably mutually beneficial to let me, because otherwise I'm going to keep sucking the energy out of the game.

[Prism]

I'm also on record as always playing to the level of the table as scum-outright abandoning games where town is playing like shit or just sitting back and letting them lose. I frequently use metaphors of towns sleepwalking, "let them throw if they want", and letting town just lose of their own volition.

What am I even doing kicking the sleeping bear here?

[Prism]

(And to be clear, the reason I want to leave now is because at least 2 of the F4 clearly aren't going to play until forced to-we either win if Wisdom/Enchant are town or kick the people that actually matter into doing shit instead of AFKing for another week)

[Tammy]

That helps lol and I’m a sucker for self meta.

And no there is no real reason. I tried to think of one today on my drive home and there’s not one just me I think lacking any real sense of confidence but that could be a me thing just not feeling confident in general.

Does that make sense?

[Tammy]

I want to just throw the spaghetti at the wall and trust it will stick but I’m tired my head feels foggy and I lack confidence

[Tammy]

(I don’t actually cook spaghetti that way)

[Prism]

It makes sense to be wary of me in general.

My point here is that your choices are YOLO coinflip on cookie while all of the game AFKs for two more weeks, or just go for one of me/Enchant who are consensus trusts atm and force Klick/Infinity to actually play the fucking game. Enchant/I may be mafia but I'm doing you a favor if I'm scum leaving before my partner because that F4 is a huge fucking coinflip.

Maybe I'm scared of you/cookie but considering that wasn't even REMOTELY on anyone's radar until you mentioned it today ??? why be worried the last 2/3 days

[Prism]

(I would not trust Infinity of the bunch, they can lurk but this is disgustingly lethargic, begging to lose to a coinflip, and frankly unacceptable)

[Prism]

My expectation for this game is essentially we trust -> Enchant/Wisdom trust and Enchant flips scum -> We lose to some stupid yolo trust Day 4

Hopefully I am wrong and Enchant flips town or YOLO trust works Day 4 but my faith in the gumption of town players right now is extremely fucking low.

[Prism]

Literally Tammy the only questions here are:

1) If my partner is in MafMen/Klick/Infinity/cookie why do I EVER leave today and put my faith in coinflipping?
2) If my partner is not them but in Wisdom/Enchant ???????? why am I not letting Enchant leave today?