Mini Normal 2246 - Game Over

[Wiki]

now go away

not before i've tried everything to get you yeeted today

good luck with that
i would like to see your funny attempts

[Iconeum]

i don't think you made 10 posts before you left RVS

i dont care what you think, u even dont understand the simple reason i was scumreading you. still!

nothing about that 'simple reason' changed
but you are not scumreading me anymore because !?datisi and i are townreading each other?!

that's not a switch that comes from town i think - it's agenda based

[Iconeum]

literally ur saving us to be chainpushed - that's what i'm feeling here

[Wiki]

ok, you convinced me he is a scum
VOTE: Datisi

[Wiki]

literally ur saving us to be chainpushed - that's what i'm feeling here

yes, im doing it because of that.

[Iconeum]

weekend vla

starting soon

[Wiki]

[Dwlee99]

Votecount 1.14

Three (3) - Datisi, T3, Salsabil Faria
Datisi (3) - Three, Dorsey, Looker
T3 (2) - Selynee, Wiki
Looker (1) - Iconeum
Salsabil Faria (1) - geraintm
Wiki (1) - Almost50

Not Voting (2) - Andresvmb, Dwlee99

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to eliminate someone.

Deadline

: (expired on 2021-10-31 06:52:46)

Wow I feel good about nothing

[Wiki]

Wow I feel good about nothing

you wanted to elim salsa, what about that?

[Iconeum]

i'll do my best to be around and switch votes if needed

[Iconeum]

just don't count on it

[Wiki]

ico, say bye bye to datisi

[Dwlee99]

Wow I feel good about nothing

you wanted to elim salsa, what about that?

Idk

I've kind of mentally checked out of everyone the past few days

[Dwlee99]

Everything*

[T3]

like does scum really play that fast and loose

They absolutely can. Just because it doesn't usually happen doesn't mean it can't happen. If you ever rule out a possibility for scum, then they'll always be able to do whatever they want and get away with it if you just hand wave it away as "scum doesn't ever do that".

Do you see a town motivation for signaling to the scum team what to prepare for wrt PR night actions? Do you see a town motivation for accusing the entire player list of being scum and then claiming PR unprovoked?

True....

[Wiki]

some good posts of Three, townpings

Spoiler:

Bad Wiki.

So Dwlee probably is town then.

probably towny thinking with fast conclusions after getting new info (though it was wrong info)

Wanting to know why something is scummy is not a bad reaction. Get your head out of your ass.

too rude for a scum here, like i've already said

VOTE: Selynee

I think Wiki is mostly flailing. But there's a good point being made about Selynee and even he sees it.

+for attentiveness to everybody

Wiki, chill.

why do scum need to do it?

the more i'm reading, the less i'm liking the argument between sel and three. mainly what i mean, sel is still feeling scummy to me, but something feels off about three pushing her there? i dunno. like piggybacking off of wiki's posts (which was frankly Bad) and 297 feels icky to me. like i think it's pretty natural here for someone to go "you're scum sheeping wrong!town onto me so you can hide behind them once i flip", and three is trying to twist that into some sorta scum!indicative thinking of her own possible future elimination.

three, how much mafia experience do you have?

I have enough experience.

I don't understand why you think my push feels off, Sel's thought process here just doesn't make sense to me. Not even 24 hours into the game and with only three votes on her, it would take a massive suspension of disbelief to truly believe that not only was I going to be the driving force behind her elimination, and not only am I scum fortunate enough to find two townies making bad reads on her for me to hide behind, but she also believes I'm going to death tunnel her and have my Day 2 strat all planned out weeks in advance.

It just, makes no sense to me. She doesn't even question the alignment of you or Wiki, and she doesn't question anyone who voted her after I did. T3 even made a naked vote and that somehow doesn't catch her eye?

I'm fairly certain Sel's scum read on me is fake, and the fact that you're pressuring me more than she is should be telling of that.

+for attentiveness

Selynee (5) - Almost50, Three, Datisi, Iconeum T3

UNVOTE:
actually not sure how much of a fan of this wagon i am
a50 is shitposting and not really doing anything, three had that weird post towards sel that i thought was bad-faithy, and t3's hop on is weirdly out of the blue

let's try uhhh
one two seven VOTE: three

Not liking the bad-faith parroting of T3. It's a minor point, but you never said you that thought that, T3 did.

+++for attentiveness, i liked this post much at that moment, because i noticed the same before you said this

I don't see the obvious A50 town thing ico.

okay, so sell me on scum!A50? i don't see it

In my pervious games with them, they were more active as town. I don’t have scum meta on them though but they're lurking for some reason and the self vote is weird.

Meh, I think they don't really enjoy this game. Seemed like they were looking for some reactions to their self-vote, though not pushing a lot there...

Hmm can be, who do you propose to vote instead?

This feels pretty scum indicative. I don't know how you could be so lost on who to vote for that you need someone to tell you who to vote.

VOTE: Salsa

i quoted this just to say to you that the sense of her question was not to find a help to herself, but to hear the opinion of sely. i think you didnt get it.

@Three

I think Andre is town here. They come off as common sense stuff and like genuinely trying to solve stuff when they could just vote someone (like Dorsley) and be done with it. Like 869, 1213 and 1215. Like, that's no way someone would directly blame them for Dorsley getting miselim here (cuz the consensus is that he is playing badly if they are not mafia) and while wk might be a thing- I feel that would be easier to just let an easy miselim go on than trying to wk someone who barely posted.
Same for Faria. Like, they were scumreading her, made a case in 825 so post like 828 comes us genuinely trying to solve the game.

Datisi- I sort of like for the most part. Like I said, I didn't really like that vote on gera cuz it felt a bit...too easy, I guess. Like yes, his answer that they are parking the vote there after a pretty obvious fake claim was weird but didn't seem to consider what would be the motivation for maf!gera there to say that in that context. The whole conflict with Wiki doesn't seem very productive cuz I think Wiki is town...but that seem more frustration-related than anything else.

Almost is...meh. Actually, I think the most pro-town thing was trying to get reactions on his wagon but he didn't follow up.

I am still not sure about Dwelee. Not sure why maf them would want Faria to be elim so much today when she is already in a pretty bad position (aka might be elim without them getting the spotlight if she is town). Not a fan of the fact that never built a case here

Gamma- see 636. I like 815...the only thing I don't agree with is that he is proposing basically 1234. Don't agree with, doesn't mean I think it is a lot of maf motivation there.

Gera and Dorsley are somewhere between...why would mafia do this and well, they could easily be mafia going for "well, they'll think why would mafia do this"


And it's time for my daily walk outside (hoping I don't catch the virus) so I'll give my thoughts on the rest later today.

K, I wasn't killed by a serial killer in the park (just my luck) so...

Faria- Actually don't find much mafia motivation with her entry. Faking believing the claim would have been something if she could get an easy miselim (like if any of them were at E-1 or something) but none were in danger of being elim. Plus stuff like calling for a policy elim doesn't seem like coming from someone who wants to be seen as town cuz from my limited experience, this usually isn't popular.

T3- Not a fan of their progression. Not helped by the fact that he doesn't really provides much info but like 375 says Three's read is made in bad faith but votes me in 377. 521- honestly, don't get why they are only suspecting me of pocketing when the same argument can be used that you were pocketing Datisi or Wiki by agreeing with them. Also, not a fan of the progression on salsa-516- meta stuff, 936- honestly don't see what's so bad in that reaction. 956- asks about scum motivations here but doesn't insist on this. 959- agrees with Andre's case. And that's basically all. No longer question Salsa read. Seems a superficial read there.

Ico- Did I say I don't like early reads? Cuz they lack consistency- like, if you say you townread someone on page 5 and scumread them on page 25, you can easily say "Well, the first one was just early vibes, now I no longer feel the same vibes" and this can easily come from both mafia or town.
Like, I actually like 352 and 368. Feels like a genuine attempt to make sense of Wiki's fake claim. And their early points on Almost. Plus from all the reasons they could give for voting me there, don't think mafia would come with 1374

Alright, I actually really like these reads, and hunting down specific posts to support your reads is +town.

TOWN

Andres- I've already made my thoughts on him clear. Very rational and logical, genuine attempts at solving, and not afraid to be combative. Overall a very strong town read.

Dwlee- I think they just town told early on by being lively and ready to play. I misread them in 2242 but tbh I really did think they were TSTBS there, here they're not actually afraid to have reads and solve alignments.

TOWN LEAN

A50- Not really doing much but I vibed hard with 767. I considered town locking him but that just seems foolish this early on into the game. Feels very different from 2242 where he was town but he could just be bored.

Ico- Early game felt weak but I wanted to let him simmer and see what he'd do over time. I like his more recent pushes, I just think he's wasting his time with Wiki.

Wiki- Probably town, I briefly considered him to be a potential Traitor just making a bunch of noise to provide cover for the scum team while guaranteeing he'd never get NK'd...but then he claimed PR for no reason. I just want him to chill if he's actually town, because he's going to get himself mislimmed if he keeps making a scene every god damn day.

NULL

Geraintm- Kinda hate that he's essentially refusing to play the game but that's apparently meta for him. It just means he can get away with it when he does roll scum though. If he doesn't start doing things Day 2 he needs to be auto-yeeted.

Sel- The reads list was genuinely townie, I'm re-evaluating your slot now and wondering if my earlier scum read on you was just wrong. I need more time to figure you out but I don't think you should ever be today's elim.

T3- Honestly, idk. I feel like I had a pretty good read on him in 2242 but lost him at the last second by trying to outguess the mod. He did scum slip hard though, so I guess he should just be sortable over time.

SCUM LEAN

Datisi- He made a lot of bad faith arguments with me and was more preoccupied with winning the argument rather than actually trying to solve my alignment. His interactions with Looker were also highly suspect, he seemed frazzled over some slight grilling and I just got bad vibes from it.

Gamma/Looker- Just as I was about to start re-evaluating Gamma, he replaced out, so that sucks. Looker's entrance is

fine

, but again, the interactions with Datisi gave me bad vibes. I strongly believe there's at least one scum between the two of them.

Dorsey- Basically just Gera but scummier. His reactions to pressure really make me want to scum lock him, it's that bad.

SCUM

Salsa- I've made my case for Salsa for awhile now, and I don't understand the hesitance to put real pressure here or why some people are even town reading her. There's nothing more to say that I haven't already said.

Are the bottom four of my list my hero solve? Eh, probably not, it's still too early to lock my reads in. I don't think a Salsa lim/pressure wagon is happening right now though, so my vote's between Dorsey and T3 as the leading wagons. Dorsey makes more sense with my reads, but Datisi is also voting him and it gives me pause. My top town reads are also on opposing wagons, so it's hard to read the better choice here based off of who's currently voting. So I guess for now I'll just go off of my own read.

VOTE: Dorsey

It is not a bad post. And this post is important. this is Three's position, readlist.

Im lazy to read and quote more (I skip a lot of your talking with datisi and sely, for example, i cannot see that as productive enough).

the problem is that our view is very different.
somebody of us is mistaking if we are both townies

though i decided to build my game in other way for now.
maybe i understood some things right and i cannot tell you the whole info now.
maybe i am mistaking, it is also possible.

[Wiki]

T3 and Datisi are scums

[Wiki]

Ico is not with them

[Wiki]

New re-evaluating yeah
Just read how datisi and t3 speak with each other and check the reaction of datisi when ico voted t3

[Wiki]

In this case someone from dwlee and looker are a scum if not both

[Wiki]

Wiki, (t3,gera,dwlee...)
Andre, (t3...)
Ico, (t3,three,dorsey,looker). Town Datisi,Dwlee.
Sely, (t3...). Town Looker.
Three, (datisi,dorsey,salsa,looker)
Dorsey, (datisi)
a50, (gera,dorsey,wiki,t3)
Salsa, (three,dorsey,wiki,looker). Town Dwlee,Datisi.
GammaLooker, (gera? datisi...). Town Salsa?
Dwlee, (gera,salsa...dorsey...)
Gera, (salsa,wiki?)
T3. (Three, dorsey... salsa?no? A50?no!)
Datisi, (three... a50? dorsey?). Town Ico,Dwlee.

[Wiki]

Wiki, (t3,gera,dwlee...)

Need to update: Wiki (t3,datisi...)

[Wiki]

If smb doesnt know, you can open 2 iso in one time (using [+]).
Open Datisi and T3 and look how they speak to each other.

[Wiki]

The rest of mafia is somewhere in dwlee/looker/salsa/gera/a50.
Dwlee and gamma townread datisi, dwlee townread t3 also. I think dwlee is more scum between this two. He tried to say that t3 is useful even if he is scum.
Sely said that salsa is not with t3, im not so sure about it. He had strange behaviour about her elimination and townreading her. Salsa made many mistakes in this case, especially if looker is not scum.
If salsa is town, gera is too bad. Just too bad.
A50 said mafia are wiki,t3,gera,dorsey. Im not sure a50 is town even if he hit 2 of 4 targets.

[Salsabil Faria]

Do you all want to know the final nail in the coffin for why Salsa is scum? Besides everything else I already said? Because town!Salsa is impulsive and self-destructive. Town!Salsa has good reads but almost zero nuance. Town!Salsa would literally rather drop the game or self-vote and crash and burn than deal with pressure from town, not power through it like she's been doing all game.

Town!Salsa isn't bad, but she naturally comes off as scummy because she gets paranoid and annoyed when people don't listen to her or scum read her. Scum!Salsa is otherwise very controlled, very thorough and precise, and very very townie looking because she can be 100% confident with whatever she says due to not actually having to second guess her self or her reads.

Yes, I self voted as town before but not as a scum. But that doesn’t mean I won't self vote as scum ever. In some town games, I had 100% confident reads and failed miserably. On the other hand, I barely had any confident read and miseliminated ultimately. I'm not sure if I've any

alignment tell

yet cause I myself don't be sure what will I do next as any alignment.

About the self vote thing, I'm trying to not do it anymore by acknowledging my anger and miscommunication issues finally. Though I still get annoyed when people don't want to listen to me, but I'm trying to do the

calm approach

but not to do the

lashing out

approach.