Mini 2247: Mountain Dew Mafia (Game Over)

[Milk & Mocha]

Because it is. If MM is town, calling the lurkers scummy and then pushing MM first is a scum move.

If the lurkers are town, they are saving those miseliminations for later because they're easier and removing Pooky now, who is notoriously hard to kill.

I highly doubt Skitter thinks she can remove me on D1 unless it's some random lol-wagon that runs off the rails.

The only one who might be able to kill me in this PL is you and if she wanted to drift in your wake she'd be better positioned off-wagon rather than actually voting for us.

I would expect the influential scum to be off wagon and letting you lead the bearhunt and then shoot you at night and pick up the pieces tommorrow tbh.

[Milk & Mocha]

We should consolidate on Dunnstral.

His massive drop-off since LLD held him upside down and shook him for loose change is so lulz-scummy.

He doesn't even want to be here lol.

[Venus Fly Trap]

@bork:
i actaully feel a little bit better abt u after ur convo with pooky tbh - i feel like if ur scum it's very easy to continue in the scumread on me and just blame my flip on lld after the fact, and the fact that you were listening to him and rethought ur stance based on the points he brought up is unlikely to come from scum there in this gamestate imo

~
@pooky:
i'm more than a little bit weirded out by the fact that the one and only thing you've actaully engaged with in like a week is trying to get bork to not vote me
where are u getting town-me from?

~

@lld:

Where as Venus' reads don't fucking make any sense when i read them. They just don't.

The reason I didn't pick to kill you, Wisdom, is when I read your reads, your reads fucking make sense.

just pointing out that the reads you're objecting to are nearly identical to wisdom's >.>

Like they scum read EMMI and SM and find MM's trolling weird and not town, and keep their vote on MM the entire day until they're pushed.

Is that a true or false statement, Wisdom? Answer me that, at least.

Their reads don't make sense with their play. Their reads are on a subset of lurking players who they can hedge on because it's REAL EASY to take those stances on players who show very little. Their stated reasons for scum reading them boil down to each time "not enough engagement, bad engagement" but then they never follow up.

- my read on pooky/noraa was stronger than on the other 2 slots, so i voted there. not sure why this is a problem
- also, in most games, i can reasonably expect pooky/noraa to respond to a vote on them, which i can then use to refine my read (tbf that didn't happen here but that's different than most over games i've played with them). emmi/sm don't really seem like the sort of players that would respond to votes on them (and haven't ...). what are you expecting 'follow-through' to look like here even?

The only reason to push Pooky over any of those slots for THAT LONG is if you felt that Pooky/Noraa was scummier and needed more pressure but they have the LURKERS as scummier and wouldn't putting pressure on the lurker slots to create content or die in that scenario with their reads make more sense as a town perspecitve?

yes, exactly, i felt pooky/noraa was scummier and creatign pressure that i believed (and hoped) that the pressured slot would respond to. emmi has votes on her and has basically done nothing. SM's response to pressure has been scummy the way they're popping in

also if pooky/noraa is scum they're harder to deal with and they *need* to be pushed more - people are always going to circle back to emmi/SM, but pooky/noraa are more dangerous and can talk their way out of stuff more, and if they're scum it's important to get that sorted and handled earlier on. like scum-emmi/sm aren't really ~threatening~ to anything and don't need my immediate attention and focus. scum-mm does.

also i don't really know what else to here tbh. i'm not scum, you're complaining that my reads and trajectories don't make any sense when they're p much right there for anybody to follow, and my wagon basically exists because you demand it, and some of the people on it don't even think i'm scummy

~

I think this meta here is almost a dead ringer for what she is posting here. I don’t see VFT scum at all.

eh that's like 4 year old meta, i'm not sure how much i look like that anymore, tbf

~

one of the very first meaningful VFT posts in the entire game.

That doesn't account for an extended spiral of increasingly weird, on-edge posts after LLD made her decision.

I haven't seen more than maybe one vaguely townish post from VFT since Page 55.

Initially, sure, because I trust her and she's town ANYWAY, I did follow her.

Since then I have seen a lot of weird ass fucking twists and turns from VFT

that have dropped them from "Eh sure let's call it town" to "basement bullshit scum", THATS WHY I'M HAPPY TO STAY THERE. It looks like scum that don't know how to get out of a hole they put themselves in.

hi i'd like to hear more about these please

If you want to scan while I’m handling all that, the things to look for are desperation statements (recognizing a sense of futility) combined with incoherently changing reads and unbalanced player list engagement (e.g. more time spent on less immediately available players). Contrast against pre-LLD-push posting.

and i object to this characterization, thank you

Wisdom, I was going to grab your posts (belatedly), but I realized it might all be for naught if I have to destroy every scrap of good will offered to me out of pure spite, so we will see how this pans out first.

i want these posts too
~

in other new thoughts:
critter is still obviosuly town
i feel worse on mush
a bit better abt ss

~

don't want to be voting towelie anymore
VOTE: emmi

[Venus Fly Trap]

I highly doubt Skitter thinks she can remove me on D1 unless it's some random lol-wagon that runs off the rails.

tbf this is not something scum-me tries to do, no

~ skitteR

(above was skitter too, sorry, forgot to sign)

[Critter]

Another FUCKING lie.

Scumreading me is fine, you aren't even the only one to do so, stop talking shit.

When you claim I am making shit up about my read on VFT when I could literally go into my ISO and pull the post I made when I went from "I don't like this but LLD said so" to "oh never mind this is scum"? That's a lie.

Critter, you know the difference between saying things as you see them and telling a lie? When you say things as you see them, you include room to be fucking wrong -- because you aren't omniscient and omnipresent. You don't know what I think in my fucking head. I certainly never thought "oh a scumread is unfun" -- saying I did is a lie, and your wording would make it a lie even if I did think that.

You wanna talk about me, you wanna scumread me even, what the fuck ever. But as soon as you start confidently saying I did things that I did not do or stating ANYTHING about my internal thoughts like you know a single goddamn thing that goes on in my head, you are crossing a line and you don't get to expect anything but anger.

I think it’s best we don’t speak right now.

I get reads by trying to figure out why someone posts something and that involves trying to figure out what they are thinking.

I do not know how to acknowledge your request in a way that will not make you angry.

I do not think I lied and I am sorry that my posting is hurting you if you’re town.

I like to get into scum’s head and play around with it as part of hunting them.

I don’t see original thought from your slot is my opinion. You screaming at me that it is doesn’t change anything for me except it makes you a scary person I don’t want to interact with.

If you’re town this conversation is entirely unproductive. Give me time to get there.

[Critter]

I highly doubt Skitter thinks she can remove me on D1 unless it's some random lol-wagon that runs off the rails.

tbf this is not something scum-me tries to do, no

~ skitteR

(above was skitter too, sorry, forgot to sign)

Maybe four years old but it’s the most representative game I have of you. So I am rolling with it.

[Critter]

Why is SS better to you?

[Venus Fly Trap]

not sure that i like his opinions (or his obstinate not-having/sharing opinoins )
but i feel like his convictions and stances have more ~depth~ than they do as scum

like the whole bit where he listed who he wouldn't flip - he was technically and literally answering the question *who he would flip*, but not how he's actually reading people
but i don't think that's something he would do as scum, he would just dredge up a list of names that he would vote for to appease you/answer the question, he wouldn't stubbornly not answer it because he doesn't want to. like as scum he would try to answer more conventionally or make it look better if that makes sense

i'm not sure i'm explainign this well but even though he isn't being *helpful* i don't think he approaches things this way as scum
like his self-righteousness in not having opinions feels different than scum-him-not-having-opinions

[Venus Fly Trap]

Maybe four years old but it’s the most representative game I have of you. So I am rolling with it.

eh it still probably isn't a great way to read me either way /shrug

[MUSHSHAGANA]

I think it’s best we don’t speak right now.

I get reads by trying to figure out why someone posts something and that involves trying to figure out what they are thinking.

I do not know how to acknowledge your request in a way that will not make you angry.

I do not think I lied and I am sorry that my posting is hurting you if you’re town.

I like to get into scum’s head and play around with it as part of hunting them.

I don’t see original thought from your slot is my opinion. You screaming at me that it is doesn’t change anything for me except it makes you a scary person I don’t want to interact with.

If you’re town this conversation is entirely unproductive. Give me time to get there.

I'm willing to let this lie at this point -- with a few things to note.

We need to learn how to interact at some point, and no matter what your alignment is you do not want to end up with me in an ELO-type situation before we figure it out: it's lose-lose if you're town, and gives me (and the other townies) the win if you're not, because I will win on WIM at that point.

This post I've quoted? At every point this is fine. There's a case where it's even a bit more mild than I think you need to go -- you could have dropped "is my opinion". The key here is that you're saying what you think, what you see, what you feel, what you do. Not how things are. You are aware of your own cognitive limits. When you start saying what /I/ /am/, then you're in lying territory -- and until this post, you have been consistently saying what I /am/, rather than what you /see me as/. Being told what I am by people who don't know me, being /defined/ by strangers; or being told what I'm thinking by other people -- those are the big red buttons with the palm-switch activation interlocks, and I detonate rather messily. Avoid that, we'll mostly be fine -- some testiness from nicotine withdrawal aside.

That's it. That's the /whole/ thing.

You want to keep your distance still, I get it. But you stepped smoothly into language that would keep things reasonably calm here, so I'm open to further communication. With the caveats above acknowledged, of course -- is/are/will language is what got us here and it'll bring us back if it ends up reappearing. Stick to e-prime, things will stay chill.

[Wisdom]

Ignore critter and answer to me and Venus please

[Wisdom]

Critter kindly get back on emmi

[Wisdom]

We should consolidate on Dunnstral.

His massive drop-off since LLD held him upside down and shook him for loose change is so lulz-scummy.

He doesn't even want to be here lol.

We'll consider it tomorrow. For now get on emmi so we can have a lim

[Venus Fly Trap]

@mush why am i scum plz ?

[Towelie]

skitter can you tell me what about my interaction w/ pooky and not anything about my talking to you prior did it for you

it's clear that i was putting this elim on my shoulders regardless of what LLD wanted

-b

[Towelie]

LLD i want to talk to you and only you at this point i think lemme know when that can happen

-b

[Towelie]

and the fact that you were listening to him and rethought ur stance based on the points he brought up is unlikely to come from scum there in this gamestate imo

on some level like this is what i thought you'd say here

on another i hoped you'd take a last swing at me

-b

[Venus Fly Trap]

@towlie well a few things:

- i thought u looked partner-y with mm but i dont think that's an interaction scum-mm has with partner-you when it would be so, so, so easy for u both to stay on me there
- similarly in general i thought ur read on me was bad, and there's no reason for scum-you to go through the song and dance of reconsidering
- also i feel a lot better now that u see town!Critter too and arent pushing them anymore

How are u reading pooky now after that interaction btw

[Venus Fly Trap]

and the fact that you were listening to him and rethought ur stance based on the points he brought up is unlikely to come from scum there in this gamestate imo

on some level like this is what i thought you'd say here

on another i hoped you'd take a last swing at me

-b

I mean i can if u want but i dont really scumread u anymore so that would be silly

[Gamma Emerald]

Anyone down to go back to M&M?

[Wisdom]

no lets get the emmi lim

[Lady Lambdadelta]

No let's do VFT

[Wisdom]

how about we dont behave like a bunch of children

[Gamma Emerald]

wisdom if you and kyouko were to consolidate on VFT they'd be at e-1
this gamestate has been stagnant for a while, let's just get a fucki9ng lim through

[Wisdom]

Thats what ive been saying for a while
Asking people to consolidate on emmi so we can have a lim
The difference is those people dont townread emmi while i townread vft