Micro 1034 | Meet me on the Astral Plane | Game Over!

[innocentvillager]

the worst part about all this is you are going to blame ME for bad play when I flip green.

[innocentvillager]

I just rage claimed my hood as being with facebones. We haven’t talked about much at all.

[Wright and Justice]

BAHAHAHAH MOLLIE JUST TMI'D SCUM WITH IV IF ANDRES IS INDEED IN A HOOD WITH IV

[Wright and Justice]

nvm i misread lmfao

[innocentvillager]

this is obviously verifiable so I don’t know why you are going bwahaha.

[pirate mollie]

I just rage claimed my hood as being with facebones. We haven’t talked about much at all.

Ah, Facebones, got it.

@W&J - what is your read on Facebones?

[Wright and Justice]

Flea entrance had poor logic basis but it's town thought process for flea - > flea if you're reading this, don't trap yourself into thinking mollie vs I has to be TvS. That's not how it works. People make shit conclusions often as town. This is likely one of them.

Holden is town for similar reasoning in terms of a deeper thought process being shown + actual solviness.

Facebones is above the line in terms of towniness for me, the entrance reminds me of when we played together and they were town.

mollie is just loltown who thinks they are good at mafia and are trying to push a read on a player who is being a leader. fun fact: this doesnt help ever and you are just going to be cited as a major reason town lost if we do lose.

Andres/IV I will revisit later

Gamma says they think T3 is towny, I dont think i can read T3 so I will just let them have that here. they still are near the bottom for me, above facebones though.

that leaves Alice as the odd one out here -> I think from all angles they are scum here. Well. Not all angles. But from the theories I have currently about the game this is how I feel.


Also if you think mollie has good points against me, think about your read accuracy in games yourself especially towards me in the past and then slowly deposit your agreement into the trash.

[Wright and Justice]

god i have like 30 MS tabs open because of this game

i work tomorrow so GOOD NIGHT

lim obvscum IV TYVM

[innocentvillager]

good night

regardless of how much you tilt me I swear I will try to never personally insult anyone this game no matter how much I scream and tilt.

[HoldenGolden]

I don't like your list.

If you want to engage with me and determine my alignment, why are you not addressing the points that I have made against W&J, to see where I am coming from? I don't even know what your read on them is.

It seems you are trying to rushedly townbin us, with the early TvT assessment and the reiterative post here, and I am trying to weigh that in.

I think you may be misrememebring some stuff. I was the one who first claimed it was TvS then branched out from there.

Anyhow

Your two bundled together because of thread dynamics. I've epxlained it eariler, but I find the lieu of outside counterpushing to nudge it to TvT. IV was the only person that attempted to engage in a serious manner but backed away. It's a bit faulty because of the less active people, but I did notice it. Hence why I'm trying to push out conversations elsewhere.

As for why indivual reads and why I don't sort you two outside of the conflict: I can't read Dokkba for shit. Everything they post is scummy to me until I realize who it's coming from. It's hard for me to actively read through Dkooba because it's the inverse of how I beleive town should play. If I didn't know their playstyle, I'd be all over them. It's why I've been trying to ENCOURGE THEM TO LOOK AT OTHER PEIPLE because I know what the town!Wright death tunnel is mike

As for you, I've actually waxed and waned a bit. I didn't like you when I pointed out the TvS comment but your intial parley post felt townie. Then it all went to shit when it spewed back up and I'm mixed. Hence why I'm also interested in talking to you directly.

Honestly if I was a day vig I would shoot into you two right now shamelessly. You should see my hand written notes before I turned to ole Jack.


Also i started typing something about IV but my memoey is bad so idk what it was but hete is what i wrote: Unlike Dokkba, while I see the association, I'm not really voting due to it. I don't care to until there's a red flip.

[HoldenGolden]

UNVOTE: innocnetvilager
if koba keeps needling me like this I’m re self voting but for now I’m just going to pray I’m less tilted about this game tomorrow. I just can’t when people get overconfident about me being scum for dumb reasons

Despite my read, sending good vibes assuming you are town

(I tired making that sound nicer and it failed.

[pirate mollie]

Flea entrance had poor logic basis but it's town thought process for flea - > flea if you're reading this, don't trap yourself into thinking mollie vs I has to be TvS. That's not how it works. People make shit conclusions often as town. This is likely one of them.

Holden is town for similar reasoning in terms of a deeper thought process being shown + actual solviness.

Facebones is above the line in terms of towniness for me, the entrance reminds me of when we played together and they were town.

mollie is just loltown who thinks they are good at mafia and are trying to push a read on a player who is being a leader. fun fact: this doesnt help ever and you are just going to be cited as a major reason town lost if we do lose.

Andres/IV I will revisit later

Gamma says they think T3 is towny, I dont think i can read T3 so I will just let them have that here. they still are near the bottom for me, above facebones though.

that leaves Alice as the odd one out here -> I think from all angles they are scum here. Well. Not all angles. But from the theories I have currently about the game this is how I feel.


Also if you think mollie has good points against me, think about your read accuracy in games yourself especially towards me in the past and then slowly deposit your agreement into the trash.

Who is Alice's partner again?

Or are you still adhering to IV/me scum?

I mean, I can't tell. There is a distinct lack of progression in these reads, and scream cog-dis, because you cannot get wild about the idea that IV/me are a scumteam, and vote/push Alice simultaneously.

[HoldenGolden]

I'm not functional

Diamas died due to bullshit crit

Imma prob take another shot and pass out.

I saw your reply to my post IV and I'll get to it tomorrow if that's oKi

[pirate mollie]

I don't like your list.

If you want to engage with me and determine my alignment, why are you not addressing the points that I have made against W&J, to see where I am coming from? I don't even know what your read on them is.

It seems you are trying to rushedly townbin us, with the early TvT assessment and the reiterative post here, and I am trying to weigh that in.

I think you may be misrememebring some stuff. I was the one who first claimed it was TvS then branched out from there.

Anyhow

Your two bundled together because of thread dynamics. I've epxlained it eariler, but I find the lieu of outside counterpushing to nudge it to TvT. IV was the only person that attempted to engage in a serious manner but backed away. It's a bit faulty because of the less active people, but I did notice it. Hence why I'm trying to push out conversations elsewhere.

As for why indivual reads and why I don't sort you two outside of the conflict: I can't read Dokkba for shit. Everything they post is scummy to me until I realize who it's coming from. It's hard for me to actively read through Dkooba because it's the inverse of how I beleive town should play. If I didn't know their playstyle, I'd be all over them. It's why I've been trying to ENCOURGE THEM TO LOOK AT OTHER PEIPLE because I know what the town!Wright death tunnel is mike

As for you, I've actually waxed and waned a bit. I didn't like you when I pointed out the TvS comment but your intial parley post felt townie. Then it all went to shit when it spewed back up and I'm mixed. Hence why I'm also interested in talking to you directly.

Honestly if I was a day vig I would shoot into you two right now shamelessly. You should see my hand written notes before I turned to ole Jack.


Also i started typing something about IV but my memoey is bad so idk what it was but hete is what i wrote: Unlike Dokkba, while I see the association, I'm not really voting due to it. I don't care to until there's a red flip.

You originally said that our exchanges read as S/S, but that because of the set up it might be T/S, but that you were leaning TvT.

I can point to the post if you like.

[Wright and Justice]

Who is Alice's partner again?

Or are you still adhering to IV/me scum?

I mean, I can't tell. There is a distinct lack of progression in these reads, and scream cog-dis, because you cannot get wild about the idea that IV/me are a scumteam, and vote/push Alice simultaneously.

actually I'm pretty sure koba expressly stated they thought IV/alice was possible
I kinda think you might be town for the IV hood partner dumbtell but this makes me feel less good about that

-Justice

[HoldenGolden]

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Spoiler: FM post spoilered for length of quote chain

Why not wait? Im impatient as a player. I like to speak my mind.
I'd appreciate the shade for what is just informimg you of the meta of a difficult to read player to be dropped btw. I was trying to prevent a state where the conversation starts revolving around t3 and i dont think thats useful ever esp on d1.

So what you are trying to do is steer the game. Right?

Yes I am - that is my MO as town pretty much always especially in setups I know and playerlists I feel comfortable with.

Can you explain why you think outting the FN is acceptable on d1? Thats what you want according to your push here.
I never suggested.that hoods never out but that people actually push their hoodmate if they think something is up.
You're not reading my whole post amd just looking at small specific points.
Again - i can happily link you to me treating this setup the same last year *as town*
And nobody here has played with me that time so i could have pretended that game doesnt exist and push hoods to claim.

1. You try to steer the game as town, I'll give you that. You did it in the game I played with you. But...who do you know in this playerlist? Because you asked

me

in our hood, but never answered yourself. And apparently, you do know a lot of people.

What an interesting thing to refrain from sharing, especially since you are flexing who you do know in the game threa

d. Also...were you the friendly neighbor in that game? I haven't looked it up.
2. Okay. Well I am pushing you.
3. What post are you referring to?
4. There is a difference in self meta as scum, compared to self meta as town. It is an unconscious tell, where people focus more on

what

they did, and not

why

they did it or the strategy and thinking process behind it.
5. Why would you refer to the game exclusively as town, and not as scum? As scum, you have 1 game as town where you used a specific strategy and won it. It would be silly not to self-vet this as scum.

And you are not silly, from my limited experience. You played fantastic as town, I can see you easily suggesting this strategy as scum

.

And you have pinged all over the place in our hood, I mean, where do I start

.

Wright and Justice vs FM feels like SvS ironically to me

This may be an absolutely dumb ass question, but if ya are in a hood, why are you also directly arguing with eachother here? It be better spent trying to illustrate to us why the other member is scum instead of taking pot shots at eachother. Not to mention also just lead to more interactions.

Anyways back to the SvS thing. The whole conversation has an artifical vibe of hostility around it. I fully can accept that a TvT interaction this early in D1 could be anger filled too, but the way its being done here doesn't collide with that. Normally when TvT's fight its more explosive and natural. Here, it seems more passive and forced from the lens of an outsider to their pt.

For example with the quoted post, i can agree with some of the logic (4, 5) but its presented with that tonal issues as seen in the colored sections(apologies to anyone colorblind):

Red: vague language; insulates that it's 'interesting' yet what does that even mean in the context of leading the thread? I feel if you think their withdraw from stating who they played with is scummy, then that has some implications regarding their interactions with people like T3. Yet that isn't explored in favor of just prodding that it's strange.

Green: completely throw away part of message. Virtue signals scummy behavior to the rest of us without actual contextulzing it. Tonal wise is in contrast to the thing above it in yellow. Yellow comment is pushing the narrative that Wright is clever enough to munch off past game credibility, yet green shows a carelessness implied from slipping a bunch in their pt. Therefore I don't really follow what picture FM has overall.


Obviously if their hood claim is true, which seems a given, then it can really only be TvS. I quoted FM, but I have some of the same issues with Wright and Justice too. Just don't have time rn to go in detail.

Thoughts? Is my metric wrong or does it make sense?

I have a thought

I don't quite understand how you got from

Wright and Justice vs FM feels like SvS ironically to me

to

Obviously if their hood claim is true, which seems a given, then it can really only be TvS

Can you explain again being less verbose this time please?

Ah yeah a result of waking up. Here:

>Their interaction has the characteristics I prescribed to an SvS interaction tonally, and does not feel like an TvT interaction.

>They clearly are in a hood together as par their own wording.

>therefore according to the rules of the game the interaction is either TvS or TvT. Since I don't feel it's TvT, it's TvS in my eyes.

I'm going to step away from reading Wright/Molie since I'm going back and forth and having WiFom issues with them and stuff like thread reaction (I can explain this but it would be a giant wishy washy blob so meh)

Reading through those that posted, I don't really like IV. While I understand that IV plays by PoE, their posts feel extraordinary uncommitted. Below is a subsection from their ISO with bold highlighting parts I deemed to be unwilling to commit.

Spoiler:

I have zero read on koba slot

pirate mollie like maybe slightly +town

maybe not

Holden

seems alright maybe a little performative

I’m not convinced that FN is like that essential this game to protect and withhold neighbor info and solvy stuff

but I’ll go along with whatever ppl think

hang in there gamma

yeah I just said it

seemed performative lool didn’t say it’s not in townrange but thanks for bringing up the meta nugget

okay so gamma signs with justice every time? Is that how I tell you two apart?

that's how I intend this to work, yeah

-Justice

ookay thanks so I will assume any non signed post is koba then. And unrelatedly I’m aware activity isn’t really that AI for you

So whats scummy from me then?
Where did you get the idea that activity isn't AI for me - we havent played together - but ive spectated 1 game where you were scum and replaced into 1 after youve already flipped scum.
So whats up?

i was talking to gamma in that post and ive played with both scum and town gamma - he was lurky and active as both alignments at various times. that's all im saying

im voting your slot rn bc i can tbh and i don't really have any read on you rn despite how much you've posted already. your insistence on me playing to my scum meta is rly weird too and having a confident read on me at this stage is bizarre especially when it's wrong

note that bizarre/wrong doesn't mean i think you're scum necessarily just worth parking my vote here rn, also im more of a PoE type player anyway so not that many things scum ping me, etc etc

*Entire post reduces impact of the read

I kinda think u are town because you have been very straight-up with everything you say idk it’s a weak tonal read that I got in the last like 15 seconds.

I didn’t really have a read on u before that but just noting it here that I had this thought before I go

No the fuck i didnt.
I assumed it was a true claim becuase im autistic and took it at face value
Fuck you if you think i thought it was a joke becsuse it was *not* clearly a joke to me

I was considering your hood real.and my fucking push on you askkng why you outted it wjth a null read on andees should be proof that was my thought process not whatever garbage about "fishing hood status".

Would you not fucking think its scummy for a neighbor to claim with anything above a scumread? Because i do.

im not sure if there’s a tonal tell here and in which direction if so

In these posts, it feels IV is purposely leaving the door open on a lot of their points. 162 in particular rubbed me the wrong way as it gives multiple reasons to back out of the read established in 161 which ALREADY talked in length about why their voting. As such, 162 feels redundant and displays a type of worry about appearing 'correct' that I associate with scum. In other words:

IV seemed more concerned on justfiying the vote and providing a way out rather then committing to it.

this is additionally alarming since the point was to apply pressure which is undermined by the rest of the posts.

Given how consistent this tone is as well, I am scumleaning them.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: innocentvillager

IV: can you give me a working PoE of your headstate right now? Please try to inculde some rationale with it. If it is truely wishywashy, then please give me details upon why it's like that to you.

(Also I have written Dysgraphia so I sympathize mollie)

I want to hear T3's TvT point, but I actually like their posts still.

The fact I can't recall any more player posts beyond that group is alarming ahhhh.

Koba let me level with ya cause four shots of whiskey makes me want to KASLAM everyone.

I admire your bash stance but it's hard to follow and take you seriously when you constantly rattling off about how someone is discrediting you and ahit. It bloats your posts and adds more fuel to the flame for any would be scum read if your town. I ~think~ me and you even had something similar to you and mollie in brass harald but I can't fucking remember.
I just remember us fighting for a good while Over the tonal beats and stuff though my weak ass bitch ass is a sucker for good town atmosphere and I think I gave up.

Humble up my friend. You don't need harshness to be the leader.

At least can we both agree and actually stick with the no shit talking in the thread cause? If one of ya makes a bad red on another, let someone KASLAMM them and get us more info.

Anyways town atmosphere. We need that fucking shit. We can keep entertaining the shitshw, but we are sorely lacking in content outside of it. It's why for example Wright is prodding in the afks.

Anyfuckingways: I'm wifoming between the two being TvT or TvS due to how the thread was lax during that time. If it's TvS, the partner should of been pushing pressing off but no one did? So either it's TvS with second partner afk or it's TvT since scum is fine with the shit show.

Idk. I want to smoke

(This isn't meant to be mean or condensansing. I'm just noticing I feel irrated already and that's a bad sign)

This is pretty much all the posts I've spoke about it. The post you are referring too may of been 314 but I thought you were talking about 122 where I first actually made the claim

[Facebones]

Hmm

FaceBone I have two requests for when you catch up:

1) What's your read on T3 (if you got one)
2) What's your take on Mollie trying to branch out from the interactions with Wright?

Bonus) Does it hurt your soul knowing your name abbreviated is FB such as Facebook? Do you ever stuff your voodoo head in a textbook to get along with that accursed social platform?

1) I don't know what to make of 373 from T3 exactly, for me Kobas point about a high post count being their town meta could also come from scum!koba. Those self-obvservations (look at me, I'm town because I'm doing this, which I've done in previous games where I was town) from a player of Koba's calibre could easily be fabricated. Why is unprovoked self-meta a towny trait? I might be wrong, but to me it feels more like a paranoid scum trait

I do like how T3 was putting pressure on IV and asking him questions with regards to the vote on WJ in order to help understand IV's thought process to better categorise him, and I agree with his sentiments that people should probably ignore the WJ/Molly for a bit.
He's already slightly touched on Alice, but am curious to hear why he thinks Andre/Flea is possible scum?

My read on him is a slight townlean for now


2) I think Molly trying to branch out from their Wright interactions is the right move for them to make, it's so easy to get caught up in trivial shit and it absolutely alters your perspective of the game going forwards, especially this early. Granted, it might not be trivial - only they know what's happening in their hood - but there are 7 other players to worry about, and if you spend all your time and effort focussing on only one slot you're liable to miss certain things others may have done/said


Bonus) I break down in tears every time I realise the similarities between my name and Facebook. In order to help me forget I hit the bottle hard and pray to the dark lord and saviour which seems to be working alright for now bar the shocking hangover I'm left to suffer through the next day. Inevitably down the line someone always notices and points it out again. It's a vicious cycle. Thanks for bringing that up

[pirate mollie]

Who is Alice's partner again?

Or are you still adhering to IV/me scum?

I mean, I can't tell. There is a distinct lack of progression in these reads, and scream cog-dis, because you cannot get wild about the idea that IV/me are a scumteam, and vote/push Alice simultaneously.

actually I'm pretty sure koba expressly stated they thought IV/alice was possible
I kinda think you might be town for the IV hood partner

dumbtell

but this makes me feel less good about that

-Justice

Wrt: I am pretty sick and tired of your slot using put downs as a form of engagement, after I have asked you to stop.

I am not putting YOU down, I am scumreading you. There is a big difference.

[pirate mollie]

Hmm

FaceBone I have two requests for when you catch up:

1) What's your read on T3 (if you got one)
2) What's your take on Mollie trying to branch out from the interactions with Wright?

Bonus) Does it hurt your soul knowing your name abbreviated is FB such as Facebook? Do you ever stuff your voodoo head in a textbook to get along with that accursed social platform?

1) I don't know what to make of 373 from T3 exactly, for me Kobas point about a high post count being their town meta could also come from scum!koba. Those self-obvservations (look at me, I'm town because I'm doing this, which I've done in previous games where I was town) from a player of Koba's calibre could easily be fabricated. Why is unprovoked self-meta a towny trait? I might be wrong, but to me it feels more like a paranoid scum trait

I do like how T3 was putting pressure on IV and asking him questions with regards to the vote on WJ in order to help understand IV's thought process to better categorise him, and I agree with his sentiments that people should probably ignore the WJ/Molly for a bit.
He's already slightly touched on Alice, but am curious to hear why he thinks Andre/Flea is possible scum?

My read on him is a slight townlean for now

2) I think Molly trying to branch out from their Wright interactions is the right move for them to make, it's so easy to get caught up in trivial shit and it absolutely alters your perspective of the game going forwards, especially this early. Granted, it might not be trivial - only they know what's happening in their hood - but there are 7 other players to worry about, and if you spend all your time and effort focussing on only one slot you're liable to miss certain things others may have done/said

Bonus) I break down in tears every time I realise the similarities between my name and Facebook. In order to help me forget I hit the bottle hard and pray to the dark lord and saviour which seems to be working alright for now bar the shocking hangover I'm left to suffer through the next day. Inevitably down the line someone always notices and points it out again. It's a vicious cycle. Thanks for bringing that up

I am not sure why you are saying this. I think they are scum, and they have nearly triple the posts that I have.

How can I branch outside of them when they won't shut up?

So far they have accused me of dodging, projecting, clogging up the thread, not opining on other players...none of which I am doing, while simultaneously doing all of the above and then saying that I am responsible for making the gamestate bad.

I haven't insulted anybody. but I have been pot-shotted by W&J left and right.

I just want to play a fucking game, you know?

I think they are scum for multiple reasons and you know what would be cool? Is if people engaged with me on those points instead of dismissing this as TvT.

What Gamma is leaving out from my meta with them, is that I picked up on 2 of their scummates in the recent game, before it got compromised. I don't think it was a compromise, I consider scum winning because town was broken.

I feel like they are trying to do the same thing here. They are capitalizing and exploiting my tendency to get into TvT and force a TvT read on them, by pre-emptively discrediting me (I am deranged, I am dumb, etc) but nothing about my actual play.

I am not 100% sure if I am right here, about them being scum, only 98% sure, because of their play in the hood and in the thread.

I stand by my logic and I stand by my read. I might be tunneled, but dayum. There is a lot here, and I don't think I am wrong.

[Wright and Justice]

Who is Alice's partner again?

Or are you still adhering to IV/me scum?

I mean, I can't tell. There is a distinct lack of progression in these reads, and scream cog-dis, because you cannot get wild about the idea that IV/me are a scumteam, and vote/push Alice simultaneously.

actually I'm pretty sure koba expressly stated they thought IV/alice was possible
I kinda think you might be town for the IV hood partner

dumbtell

but this makes me feel less good about that

-Justice

Wrt: I am pretty sick and tired of your slot using put downs as a form of engagement, after I have asked you to stop.

I am not putting YOU down, I am scumreading you. There is a big difference.

I did not mean it that way but understood, I'll avoid using that term in the future

-Justice

[AliceK]

Didn't find enough time to catch up, but from few first pages I think Wright and Justice is scum.
1) discussing mechanics and providing optimal strategy is a cheap way to get towncred, you don't need to do reads and probably people wouldn't reveal their hoods anyway. T3 got baited for that.
2) self-meta thing is something scummy as wellg
, I definitely can see Kobba trying to replicate the same style as scum.
If it worked as town why wouldn't it work as scum.

Also Mollie revealing their hood is quite controversial which usually comes from town as you can never know how town will react to that.

Mollie, T3 - town
Wright and Justice - scum

Will read the rest of the thread tomorrow. Probably I'm quite behind.

1) "could be scum" is a shit reason. You are accusing me that I would never do that as town(which is impossible as a) I did it in a previous iteration of this setup, b) I am town this game) so nice try alice
2) I self meta on the regular as town. Wanna get dunked on? I refuse to talk about self meta as *scum* because it makes it harder for me actually. A conclusion with no basis in fact.

Take a shot and reread it.

Alice: why is 1) scum lean and not NAI? That logic only makes sense if you come from it with the notion that they are scum only. Show me why it's AI.

Yes it is not scum only thing of course, but I can see a plan to attack anyone who doesn't abide by proposed startegy to be attacked (Mollie). That's scummy. Other than that which is not talking place here, when you do mech talk without doing reads.

[Flea The Magician]

Didn't find enough time to catch up, but from few first pages I think Wright and Justice is scum.
1) discussing mechanics and providing optimal strategy is a cheap way to get towncred, you don't need to do reads and probably people wouldn't reveal their hoods anyway. T3 got baited for that.
2) self-meta thing is something scummy as wellg
, I definitely can see Kobba trying to replicate the same style as scum.
If it worked as town why wouldn't it work as scum.

Also Mollie revealing their hood is quite controversial which usually comes from town as you can never know how town will react to that.

Mollie, T3 - town
Wright and Justice - scum

Will read the rest of the thread tomorrow. Probably I'm quite behind.

1) "could be scum" is a shit reason. You are accusing me that I would never do that as town(which is impossible as a) I did it in a previous iteration of this setup, b) I am town this game) so nice try alice
2) I self meta on the regular as town. Wanna get dunked on? I refuse to talk about self meta as *scum* because it makes it harder for me actually. A conclusion with no basis in fact.

Be careful, this enters into trust telling if it's true.

[innocentvillager]

Who is Alice's partner again?

Or are you still adhering to IV/me scum?

I mean, I can't tell. There is a distinct lack of progression in these reads, and scream cog-dis, because you cannot get wild about the idea that IV/me are a scumteam, and vote/push Alice simultaneously.

actually I'm pretty sure koba expressly stated they thought IV/alice was possible
I kinda think you might be town for the IV hood partner dumbtell but this makes me feel less good about that

-Justice

why can't he be scum with someone that's not me and not know who my hood partner is

are you too suggesting im confirmed scum?

[innocentvillager]

oh my god WHY i mean *why can't they be scum* sorry that's the 2nd time. ill slow down and reread before i hit submit

[innocentvillager]

im increasingly getting the vibe that W/J is town i think they've done enough things that make sense from a town perspective and it's a little too big brainy/too over the top fake towniness that on balance i think they're probably just town.