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[Oman]

Fuck off. Hahah

I logged in to switch my vote because I'm about to head to bed then do Family Christmas tomorrow (which means I might have reduced access for the next 24hrs).


uhhhhhh the doctor claim is WILD because it's a weird scum claim (cop provides better longevity as dr can protect. It makes you an easy kill target etc etc).

Shiiiiiit. I think I trust it for that reason. I don't think UD is doc-hunting with that.

Dwlee: I agreed with one statement you made. That's a) not a mind meld by any degree, and b) not something that will exclusively happen with town. It's a tiny interaction iin the context of a bigger game. I know, if you're town, that it's frustrating to hear that, and I'm sorry, mate. I know it's hard to see us click a bit and me still not trust you, but that's how I feel.


I'm not okay with an UD vote today. I'm still pro-Dwlee. I'd settle for Andres (though that's mostly just to clean up). I'd need to think a lot more on T3, I'll try to do a read tonight but no promises. Azaa I'm NOWHERE on yet.

[Oman]

I know I SRd Egix, but I'm happy to give Emerald some space to work in the game. They seem dope.

[Oman]

T3 I don't feel like I have much to go on. Not a lot of pushing, not a lot of votes. Defs not a SR, but also feels generous to call it Null.

[Dwlee99]

I'm still pro-Dwlee.

[Dwlee99]

I'm actually starting to consider the possibility of scum doctor hmm

[Dwlee99]

Anyway, Oman be mighty suspicious

[Oman]

Omgus, entirely. Unless you've got reasons to be suspicious of me besides "you agreed with me once and won't unvote me!"

[Dwlee99]

It's also that there was no reason to have your vote on me over uglyduck there according to the way you posted. And I think it is scummy to scumread me right now, yea

[Dwlee99]

Omgus, entirely. Unless you've got reasons to be suspicious of me besides "you agreed with me once and won't unvote me!"

Spoiler: Omgus, entirely

I'm pretty frustrated with 782 if oman is town, which is where I was leaning before it was made. Has no reason to townread Uglyduck, and in fact has reasons to scumread him. Has reasons to townread me (I mean I'm assuming that's why you'd mention a mini mindmeld?)

Places UD vote on me as has feelings depending on my flip.

I see he wants to switch UD if we are still in this position but like... all signs point that he should be switching now, not later, right? If UD's vote is scum-indicative on my town flip, and I'm just probabilistically more likey to be town than scum AND there are reasons to townread me / scumread Uglyduck it just doesn't make sense for him to position like this imo

Like I just get this overwhelming vibe of incongruency between thought and action, ESPECIALLY on a Uglyduck red flip, and this is where I'd go tomorrow if UD is red

Oman: see my post on their post. Keeping the vote on me makes no sense with that post, and yes this is partly preflip with Uglyduck but that post was bad bad bad.

[Oman]

Right so it's because I'm voting you and won't move off to the doctor, cool.

If you think there's an incongruity between my read on you and my vote on you, you don't understand my read on you

[Dwlee99]

I'm not on UD either yknow

[Dwlee99]

782 contains no reasons to scumread me. Actually, now that I'm looking for it, you haven't expressed any reason to scumread me. Your entire progression is voting me as a counter to scorp and what seems like a "generate pressure" kinda reason, then it's you saying you still are happy with your vote, then the next thing is 782 where you're suddenly saying you were happy to see my wagon through to an elimination (as a juxtaposition to something that you thought was slightly townie)

[Dwlee99]

Spoiler: Oman progression

Like, at D1 let's not be scared of -1/-2. Its a tool that generates responses and we've seen some. It's good. Natalya walking away from the ledge is a solid town play if Scorp is (per my belief) town. That's really valuable to me and to the team as a whole.

Is a good place to be. I'm heading to sleep but hopefully we point this in an actual good direction before I wake up and hold this momentum.

I don't know if this E-1 or 2 or whatever it was vote leads to Dwleescum but it's a) a better wagon than Scorp, and b) I'm here to find out.

VOTE: Dwlee99

In terms of vote, I'm happy to leave it on Dwlee for now as 2nd biggest wagon. I don't have a read on T3 yet, so I'm not happy to switch over to the highest rn. I'll prioritise reading T3 if I get a chance.

UglyDuck just spent like 9 days preparing completely lukewarm recycled reads and I'm kind of surprised that's not getting as much attention as I'd hoped?

VOTE: UglyDuck this isn't for pressure I think he's fairly likely to actually flip red

This was actually a bit eye-opening for me. I didn't see it the first time, but after this priming I actually don't love UglyDuck's "lukewarm recycled reads" at all. V big flag for me. I don't think that sells the worst as town for me (bussing exists), but it's a good one.

UglyDuck just spent like 9 days preparing completely lukewarm recycled reads and I'm kind of surprised that's not getting as much attention as I'd hoped?

VOTE: UglyDuck this isn't for pressure I think he's fairly likely to actually flip red

VOTE: Uglyduck

Actually yea

This is a good point

This was almost entirely my reaction, in tone and vibe. Which frustrates me as someone who has been happy to vote Dwlee and explicitly see it through to elim.

@UglyDuck:

I looked over your reads list, who do you actually suspect right now?

DW is my top at this point. forgot to...

VOTE: DW

Flagging this as my feelings on it depend almost entirely on Dwlee's flip.

I feel like my suspicion of fua this game has been because every reason they've jumped on for voting people has been so

basic

but I recognze that not everyone thinks the same way I do, probably a big difference in playstyles here?

I don't like this because of how noncomittally it splits the difference. I have *such* a nullread on Retti coming into this post, and it's the kind of post where I can see scum using this to sprinkle a post that they can point back to later, without actually committing to anything.

...this game is going to give me a migraine

Mood.

For example...

I tr you off the vote thing, idk what any of the recent stuff is about

didn't read it

lol

lol indeed :/

They are not actively solving, they seem to be moving their vote from wagon to wagon based on who is easiest to kill/where the momentum is moving.

the progression from sheeping T3 by putting Scorp at E-1 and then voting T3 for T3's vote/push on Scorp is particularly egregious in terms of not making any sense.

They then moved off T3 before T3 even responded to vote for UglyDuck.

I don't hate a T3/Dwlee scumpair right now!

I am in the game!

For real though?

Egix96 is being replaced due to inactivity.

Ugh. D1 is gonna be a bit of a mess. Hopefully we got enough from egix and hoooopefully we get enough from Gamme to work something after the two flips between here and D2.

Let me check the current votecount and then put myself somewhere effective/stay here. I'm pretty sure Dwlee is e-2. Didn't claim when they said they were at e-1 (mistakenly), so I don't expect to hear a claim that moves my vote. But I just want to check where Ugly is.

[Dwlee99]

If ugly is scum (I know, I know) then the bottom of 782 feels like a telegraphed "I'll have uglyduck claim, then when they say doctor I guess I'll have no choice but to vote dwlee"

[Oman]

So I think we have this core misunderstanding, and it lays here:

I'm pretty frustrated with 782 if oman is town, which is where I was leaning before it was made. Has no reason to townread Uglyduck, and in fact has reasons to scumread him. Has reasons to townread me (I mean I'm assuming that's why you'd mention a mini mindmeld?)

Agreeing with someone isn't alignment indicative imo. 1) scum can say stuff that people want to hear, even when it's not their true belief and , 2) scum are just as likely to say stuff that is true because scum are informed and can therefore say stuff that is true. Me agreeing with your *stated* read on a post doesn't mean that I think that is *what you really think* because again, scum lie/misrepresent their opinions in ways that people want to agree with

by definition of the game

. In short: Just because you said a thing that I agree with, it doesn't make me think you're town. There are 35 pages. I'm not living and dying off one post.

In terms of your three point breakdown, I'm happy to unpack them each:

If UD's vote is scum-indicative on my town flip

Correct. I don't think UD's vote on you is *anything* if you're scum. But if you're town (which I doubt), there's an angle there for me to look next.

and I'm just probabilistically more likey to be town than scum

Probabilistic arguments like this are silly imo because EVERYONE is probabilistically more likely to be town than scum so we should just all vote for friendship every day and let them NK us off one by one? Of course not. By the same token, the % chance of whether you're town or scum is worth WAY less than my opinion from play.

AND there are reasons to townread me / scumread Uglyduck it just doesn't make sense for him to position like this imo

This is that core misunderstanding, right? That there are reasons to townread you. I don't. I know you see that post I wrote where I'm like "grr someone I think is scum made a good point" (Cue onion article), but that doesn't mean I think you're town. It doesn't give me pause. Any reason to scumread Uglyduck is way secondary to you. I would, however, prefer ANYTHING to a No Vote day, so, yeah, I was happy to take UD to claim. But that doesn't mean a) i prefer that wagon, or b) that I don't prefer yours.

Like I just get this overwhelming vibe of incongruency between thought and action, ESPECIALLY on a Uglyduck red flip, and this is where I'd go tomorrow if UD is red

That's a fair call. I can understand you seeing that. Especially in my response to UD's claim. If that happens, it's something we'll have to talk about. But right now I think you're scum and you're pushing on this point that I've gone over a few times that is basically just OMGUS now that you're the person in the room with the most fingers this late in the day.


For the town: A No elim day is so bad for us. Can we please make sure we clean this up soon. I've told you where I'm happy to vote. Let's make sure we do the least harmful thing here.

[Dwlee99]

You still have no stated reason to scumread me. This seems extremely fake

[Oman]

If ugly is scum (I know, I know) then the bottom of 782 feels like a telegraphed "I'll have uglyduck claim, then when they say doctor I guess I'll have no choice but to vote dwlee"

I mean that's usually how it goes when people claim doctor Claims are claims D1, that's just basic game play.

But I actually have given options other than you to which I'd happily and not-so-happily commit. I just think you're the best option rn.

[Dwlee99]

We also have two days left in the deadline and you're acting like there's no time to eliminate anyone but me

[Dwlee99]

If ugly is scum (I know, I know) then the bottom of 782 feels like a telegraphed "I'll have uglyduck claim, then when they say doctor I guess I'll have no choice but to vote dwlee"

I mean that's usually how it goes when people claim doctor Claims are claims D1, that's just basic game play.

But I actually have given options other than you to which I'd happily and not-so-happily commit. I just think you're the best option rn.

WHY

[Oman]

You still have no stated reason to scumread me. This seems extremely fake

UUUUUGH. Fine. I'm not taking the bait any more. I've put my thoughts out, I've put my votes down. I've made my moves. You don't like them, you think it's fake, whatever mate. I've tried. You don't wanna believe me, you don't gotta.

[Dwlee99]

You still have no stated reason to scumread me. This seems extremely fake

UUUUUGH. Fine. I'm not taking the bait any more. I've put my thoughts out, I've put my votes down. I've made my moves. You don't like them, you think it's fake, whatever mate. I've tried. You don't wanna believe me, you don't gotta.

No you haven't??? Wtf

[Dwlee99]

The bait to explain your scumread? LOL

[Dwlee99]

Also holy perspective slip, batman

[Oman]

You still have no stated reason to scumread me. This seems extremely fake

UUUUUGH. Fine. I'm not taking the bait any more. I've put my thoughts out, I've put my votes down. I've made my moves. You don't like them, you think it's fake, whatever mate. I've tried. You don't wanna believe me, you don't gotta.

No you haven't??? Wtf

Haven't I? Shit. Sorry. That's my bad, I thought I'd made this post earlier (I've been on your wagon for a while, I thought I'd scattered these through for a long time).

The Scorp E-1 was ridonkulously bad for a number of reasons. That was a volatile wagon that didn't need more fire and you/Jackson had posted VERY VERY little before making one of the least productive and potentially most harmful moves in the game so far. It truly looked like opportunism, on a wagon that was emotional enough that someone feasibly could have hammered and talked their way out of it. "Hammering at this point is a death sentence" was your stance, and I understand what you're saying, but I disagree. I think with how salty Scorp was acting, Town absolutely could have hammered him and then been follow-up pushed, or scum could have done it and then walked away from explosions. I don't think it's NEARLY as reductive as you put it, and for that to be your first action, so blase, SUCKS to me.

Your reaction to Natalya and now me is incredibly defensive. To the point that it feels scummy. For the same reason I read ScorpTown for their response to pressure, I almost entirely read you as scum because of how much you've overblown Natalya and now me for looking in your direction. As I said, it's big OMGUS energy. Obviously with me you've got a real reason to be salty because apparaently I never put this in text, and that does suck, I'm sorry, especially for saying I have and acting like that. But it's still super defensive. And perhaps most telling of all, a scumtell I'm very familiar with, is being upset not because you are being pressured, but becasue you're being pressured for

a reason you think is unfair

. Natalya's meta stuff, and my agreeing with you thing. It reeks a lot of someone who is finding the pressure a little unfair because they think they deserve to be cleaner than they are.

[Oman]

i have a hard time believing dwlee actually scumreads uglyducks. the wagon analysis is not my favorite either. i feel like there's just a bit too much focus on how much they are frustrated as opposed to content. in general, the reasons to vote people aren't going to be that good. votes are just ways to express that we agree with a certain thought. nothing more nothing less.

dwlee seems to flip between frustrated/ateing and extremely towny solving from these last couple posts and i feel like it's sort of the panic of a player who is struggling to figure out which scum tactic they should use. i might be thinking too much but im willing to mislim town on day one because i think this flip gives good information anyways. the worse case scenario is just a pr out and that sucks but we'll still be fine honestly.

Extremely towny solving and you want to flip me

And a touch of Beetlejuice

Yea you're scum

Oh this is the other one. I knew there was a third in the pattern but had to iso you to find it, sorry to break it out like this.

You get really shirty whenever someone looks at you. It feels too volatile to be town, with your experience.