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[Oman]

Literally the only people you've voted for are voting for you rn, except for Scorp which I think was bad for another reason. It all sucks.

[Dwlee99]

I just obvtowned for multiple pages, yea I'm gonna be pissed if people think I'm still scum after that

[Dwlee99]

Yea I'm volatile, yea I'm OMGUSy, these are literally just how I play. Gamma will recall me reacting like this to her randomly calling me scum late in Slaughter House (oh and he was scum there!) so it's not like I have no basis for this. If I think your reasons are bullshit, I will think you're scum. It's pretty simple. I think you're either scum or being extremely selective in what you're reading and thinking about to think I'm scum here, and I want your read on Aza ASAP

[Dwlee99]

And you simultaneously acknowledge that it's valid for me to react like this when YOU HADN'T STATED REASONS but then saying that me reacting like this is scummy. Which is it?

[Dwlee99]

Gamma will recall me reacting like this to her

Spoiler: if anyone wants to read this

Strong TRs: (GE, peta, Taly)
Weak TRs: (skitter, Ggy)
In flux: (ydrasse, ulyana)
Weak SRs: (cakez, HQ)
Strong SRs: (dwlee, gypyx, toog)

This is where my reads are basically at atp. Up until just recently cakez and gypyx were switched, but I'm heeding peta a little bit on cakez and I remembered something gypyx posted in the blue room that pings quite a bit now that infinity has flipped town.

HURT: toog, gypyx, dwlee, (harley/cakez)

my desired order would be something like

(whichever of cakez/HQ isn't left out)
ulyana
ydrasse
(skitter+Ggy in either order)
Taly
(me+Peta in either order)

if we wanna do most to least towny for the crossing, basically just flip this order

there's also a good bit I don't like from cakez rn so he's still in my lower tiers

go into it?

I don't like how he went through events 3 and 4 pretty much at all
I'm also worried about how his reads sound, it's a case of "seems logical but not in a definitively town sense", which I had towards cephrir in Radio Buzz
there's another slot I'm of that opinion towards in this game as well somewhat, but I'm more willing to trust that person than I am cakez

Yea gamma you're gonna have to explain how I'm evil here, especially with fucking toog

I rushed through the Dunn Toog duel and you think I'm scum with them okay. And that I left Harley in the bottom four until ydrasse really wanted them up cause ???

Wow I'm actually reconsidering my townread of gamma. Thought I'd Dave the paranoia for later but that list is awful

Yea gamma you're gonna have to explain how I'm evil here, especially with fucking toog

You consistently had Toog+Cakez in your lower tiers until you reconsidered post-infinity flip, after which they seem to be middle of the pack, and interestingly you’re more okay with leaving out peta who ranks more towny for you than either of those two than you are with leaving one of those two out.
I looked over those scumgames and it seems you have a bit of a history of half-hearted or late-stage bussing. That tracks with your supposed progression on Toog+Cakez.

ulyana
Ydrasse
SirCakez
Infinity 324
Toogeloo
Dunnstral

Here's a list of people I'd be cool shooting each other today. I vaguely remember townreading the other people the last time I was actually thinking about the game, but I don't feel super confident in this poe.

Or here where I'd be putting toog/Dunn/Cakez in here

Yea gamma you're gonna have to explain how I'm evil here, especially with fucking toog

You consistently had Toog+Cakez in your lower tiers until you reconsidered post-infinity flip, after which they seem to be middle of the pack, and interestingly you’re more okay with leaving out peta who ranks more towny for you than either of those two than you are with leaving one of those two out.
I looked over those scumgames and it seems you have a bit of a history of half-hearted or late-stage bussing. That tracks with your supposed progression on Toog+Cakez.

Cakez has been high up since the Dunn flip wtf

That doesn’t track with him being higher on your crossing list then

Yeah it's called I reevaluated after Dunn flip so I have had cakez higher since then

I initially was thinking the team was explicitly you/Cakez/Toog but there’s still room for either of those to be town, meanwhile you’re definitely scum because your list for this event is straight up wack

Oh you mean how he is lower in the 8? That's cause it was based entirely on this day phase

I initially was thinking the team was explicitly you/Cakez/Toog but there’s still room for either of those to be town, meanwhile you’re definitely scum because your list for this event is straight up wack

Choke on my town flip

I'll be okay being left out of the crossing only if gamma is with me so I can tell at him in dead thread for this BS

I get mindfucked so hard everytime someone suggests that they get left behind.

Only if gamma is. I'm not watching from dead thread without him there

Oh you mean how he is lower in the 8? That's cause it was based entirely on this day phase

Yeah, this is bullshit
You didn’t actually “reconsider” shit

I'll be okay being left out of the crossing only if gamma is with me so I can tell at him in dead thread for this BS

That sort of thing is very common of them in most games
And I very much don’t believe it was a real thought you had

Oh you mean how he is lower in the 8? That's cause it was based entirely on this day phase

Yeah, this is bullshit
You didn’t actually “reconsider” shit

What do you call rereading the start of this day phase? You want me to quote the posts that made me townbin people when I was reading to prove I actually read or something? You think I just randomly spat out a list with my scum buddies crossing and town at the bottom? You think I'm shit enough at scum I wouldn't even fake having reasons for any of my reads?

I'll be okay being left out of the crossing only if gamma is with me so I can tell at him in dead thread for this BS

That sort of thing is very common of them in most games
And I very much don’t believe it was a real thought you had

Idek what you're even talking about here

Only rereading this one half-done phase is not “reconsidering”
And you made this big stink about “oh I need to clear these pre-conceived notions”, normally that’s tied to a full re-read of the game, not “I just wanna think about this phase with a fresh mind”.

I have never reread a whole game lmao

[Oman]

RE: you. Didn't you yell at Nat for doing meta reads and now you're defending yourself by saying 'that's just how I play'?

you also never obvtowned. You really need to be more realistic with yourself here. If you're scum and you think you are so squeaky clean, or you're town and you think you're above reproach: You're wrong. Again, alignment aside, you really have to come to terms with how this game works, and the fact that *someone somwhere* is going to think you're scum and you can't just chuck a fit about that. To be clear: I think you're scum here. But to be also clear: I think it's a really shitty way to scumhunt if you are town.

RE: Aza, I don't love responses that are "I have a gut feeling that I'll follow up on later". But it almost all feels like someone new to me. Where Aza has expressed opinions (Especially #575, #809, #817) I really agree with them in a way that I think is town. Especially Aza distancing from UD in a way that I wouldn't expect scum to do either if it was Scum/Town or Scum/Scum. I wish there was more, tbh. Also, and perhaps more importantly, I think the only reason you're on Aza is because they voted for you and/or looked your way and you get super personally offended about that (in a way that I think is scummy).

[Oman]

And you simultaneously acknowledge that it's valid for me to react like this when YOU HADN'T STATED REASONS but then saying that me reacting like this is scummy. Which is it?

Me not posting reasons was unfair. But let's also not pretend I'm the only one you're reacting like this toward. Context and big picture is more relevant than a single person or a single post or a single conversation. Patterns and webs, mate.

[Dwlee99]

I was a bit unfair to Natalya, I'll say that. I realized something that makes me understand where they were coming from more, even though they're still wrong. For you and Aza, I'm extremely justified in reacting like this because you had no reasons and same for Aza. Aza is still talking about me interpreting Natalya the one way I think it's possible to do so, and I just don't think that's still a legit read. After how much content I posted, too, I just don't buy it. Your pattern then is two justified and one misunderstanding between Natalya and I, so no it isn't scummy

[Dwlee99]

RE: you. Didn't you yell at Nat for doing meta reads and now you're defending yourself by saying 'that's just how I play'?

Playstyle isn't meta ffs

[Oman]

After how much content I posted, too, I just don't buy it.

I legit hope you're scum. If after as much mafia as you've played you honestly believe yourself to be beyond any suspicion I'm fuckin' FLABBERGASTED.

Playstyle isn't meta ffs

Meta, short for metagame, is a term for the knowledge of how a player or moderator will act based on previous experience.

I disagree entirely, and I think you know that. I think you're grasping here.

[Dwlee99]

you also never obvtowned. You really need to be more realistic with yourself here. If you're scum and you think you are so squeaky clean, or you're town and you think you're above reproach: You're wrong. Again, alignment aside, you really have to come to terms with how this game works, and the fact that *someone somwhere* is going to think you're scum and you can't just chuck a fit about that. To be clear: I think you're scum here. But to be also clear: I think it's a really shitty way to scumhunt if you are town.

This is extremely condescending. I think I know how the game works. I have over 100 games on site and many off. I am a double survivor at this point. My reads rate isn't 100%, and sometimes it takes me a while to come to the right conclusion, but there's clearly method to what I do cause I've caught scum with it. Have I tunneled town? Yea, but sometimes even that has helped me in the long run to figure out the game

[Dwlee99]

I legit hope you're scum. If after as much mafia as you've played you honestly believe yourself to be beyond any suspicion I'm fuckin' FLABBERGASTED.

This just isn't a good faith interpretation of what I said. AZA STILL THINKS I'M SCUM FOR CORRECTLY INTERPRETING A POST LIKE 15 PAGES AGO

My point there is that I have PLENTY of content for Aza to make a read off of. They don't have to grasp at straws to form an opinion on me, and yet they still are. Why do you think that is?

[Dwlee99]

I disagree entirely, and I think you know that. I think you're grasping here.

You can find me saying this across any game it comes up this year. Fine, you want to call it meta? Whatever, not the meta I take issue with then. I don't think it is meta to know to ignore Not mafia posting that clod pod jester post, if you think it is have fun with that

[fua]

UNVOTE:

This is making my head hurt. I need to do a big reread when I have the time.

[Oman]

I'm gonna head to bed now, and then as I said I might have limited access over the next 24.

I know you've got a lot of experience which is why I'm finding it so hard to believe townyou is this incredulous about people suspecting them. The whole thing is really reductive and poorly accepts the spirit of the game.

Is nap time, i'm sorry that you're not satisfied with the reasons that people suspect you, but like, it doesn't sound like you would ever find any reason satisfying enough. It sounds like anyone who suspects you is scummy for being so wrong because you are "obvtown" . And if that's your understanding of the situation, I honestly don't know how to engage with it in a way that's productive. I guess the important thing is: It doesn't matter how you feel about the votes on you. What matters is what the town (collective) decide to do in the next day and a half.

[Dwlee99]

Goodnight

I'm gonna take a break from posting unless people ask me questions. I'll be around to answer stuff for around two hours and then I'll be busy for a bunch of the day, but then probably around more nighttime of EST

[Dwlee99]

Sorry this is too funny

Spoiler: me when anyone scumreads me

[Azaariah]

dwlee-scum really is that obvious

i think this can be interpreted as

dwlee is obvious scum
really is that obvious is the same as is really that obvious. that may be an indicator for meta but it's also just a word that emphasizes something
dwlee-scum means natalya thinks dwlee is scum. maybe the dash changes the meaning. im not sure on that but i didn't think meta until after it was mentioned like that.

that was how i read it. i understand that it can also be read as

dwlee as scum is so obvious

but i didn't read it that way when i first saw it which is why i think it's a subconscious decision that is incriminating for dwlee.

[Azaariah]

i really dont want to read the last couple pages but i will do it later. ugly duck votes all need to leave. without having read up yet, i am still pro-dwlee wagon but i will give it a read.

[Azaariah]

the oman-dwlee interaction specifically is what im mentioning.

[fua]

dwlee-scum really is that obvious

i think this can be interpreted as

dwlee is obvious scum
really is that obvious is the same as is really that obvious. that may be an indicator for meta but it's also just a word that emphasizes something
dwlee-scum means natalya thinks dwlee is scum. maybe the dash changes the meaning. im not sure on that but i didn't think meta until after it was mentioned like that.

that was how i read it. i understand that it can also be read as

dwlee as scum is so obvious

but i didn't read it that way when i first saw it which is why i think it's a subconscious decision that is incriminating for dwlee.

That would be a convincing argument for interpretation were it not for Natalya simultaneously trying to use meta to form a case on Dwlee anyway.

[Azaariah]

dwlee-scum really is that obvious

i think this can be interpreted as

dwlee is obvious scum
really is that obvious is the same as is really that obvious. that may be an indicator for meta but it's also just a word that emphasizes something
dwlee-scum means natalya thinks dwlee is scum. maybe the dash changes the meaning. im not sure on that but i didn't think meta until after it was mentioned like that.

that was how i read it. i understand that it can also be read as

dwlee as scum is so obvious

but i didn't read it that way when i first saw it which is why i think it's a subconscious decision that is incriminating for dwlee.

That would be a convincing argument for interpretation were it not for Natalya simultaneously trying to use meta to form a case on Dwlee anyway.

i honestly haven't paid too much attention to natalya. i was under the impression they started using meta after this post but i may be wrong.

[fua]

I mean, to me it’s a very clearly meta-leaning post, especially in retrospect given the context of her argument.

[Dwlee99]

I can't help myself

Last time this conversation happened I said this

Look if someone hammered there without claim that's basically a scum claim so I'm really not pressed about it, no matter how you feel about putting someone at e-1

It’s weird though that your first real anything is to put someone on e-1.

But, I don’t think scum would be so obvious.

dwlee-scum really is that obvious

"I don't think scum would be obvious"

"dwlee-scum" (aka dwlee as scum, cause hyphen) "really is that obvious"

Dwlee as scum is obvious

how else do you read this

I don't think you responded to it. The context behind what Natalya was saying was a response to Scorpious. It's right there. I again don't think you're reading because you are still pushing this as a thing that can have multiple interpretations when as a response to Scorpious it has a clear and obvious meaning, and you're also still basing your read on me off this and not any of the actual content I've made. I would have interpreted the post the same way if I were scum because it's the way the post was intended

[Azaariah]

im not sure if it's as damning as i originally thought anymore but that still doesn't really change my read on dwlee overall. i feel like there's a lot of desperation that just shouldn't have been there. this was a part of the ate but i think the desperation to dig themself out of the hole was pretty bad. someone earlier said that dwlee wasn't ateing but that isn't true at all. nearly every post from them has had some form of ate. being frustrated at natalya and oman was not really justified. neither was unreasonable in any way, there was no reason to be that frustrated.

i always have a hard time sorting people who are this emotional about scumreads but i don't actually think this emotion is real. it genuinely feels to me like an attempt to shake us off. im willing to go into post by post analysis though i really prefer not to because that was exactly what threw me off of andante last game. i see towny things in scum's words when i look too hard and that's annoying.

i want to say the emotion is getting to me because i feel for it very much but i dont want to let go of another read that im confident in. i will read up i swear. just not right now.