Newbie 2086 - Reaction GIFs | End!

[fferyllt]

Vote Count 1-8

Not Known 15

(4): butterchurn, notscience, Dunnstral, Greeting

Greeting

(1): ɀefiend

zefiend

(1): Cape90

Dunnstral

(1): Not Known 15

butterchurn

(1): V0ID

Not Voting

(1): catboi

Deadline: January 4, Midnight US Eastern Time.

Countdown: (expired on 2022-01-03 21:00:00)

Mod Notes:

-

[Cape90]

In case it was unclear, by distancing I didn't mean distancing from a scum partner (I realize that's how it's often used, perhaps it was a poor choice of words on my part), I meant how you were expressing doubt on a wagon that you had already joined. If NK15 did get eliminated and flipped town, I would read that behavior as scum. And of course you would do it before his elimination is guaranteed, because doing it later and drawing attention to it is much more obvious and suspicious. From 2084 you didn't seem like the kind of player to hedge your bets or fence sit very much as town. If you were suspicious of someone you tended to have a bit of confirmation bias and twist more reasons into suspicion, and see anything through that lens (mostly noticeable when you made a case on marcistar). In this case it felt like the opposite.

But again, I'm still most suspicious of NK15, and if he is eliminated and ends up being scum, this point would be irrelevant, and I would probably townread you instead. So all told, I'm not that suspicious now, but it did stand out to me as a pattern of scumplay if certain conditions end up being true.

I think I correctly understood your use of distancing - and actually I also thought of it that way. It could be more versatile - as distancing from something

or

someone one wishes to not be associated with. So a scum could distance themselves from their partner in order to not get caught as associated and a scum could distance themselves from a wagon which lead to voting out a townie, or a scum, as part of distancing busses their partner. In this scenario, I would be scum who knows for certain that

NK 15

is not their scum partner and wants to look cleaner in spite of being part of a wagon that lead to their elimination, as a townie. However, my point from 244 actually still stands. Plus

NK 15

's last actions made them look much dirtier in my eyes, which is why my attitude also changed.

And the truth is, however, much simpler and is that the doubt is based off my past experiences of Days 1 in other games. The only game in which town actually managed to vote out a scum in Day 1 was Newbie 2081, and it was all pretty much luck (I hammered! ). I've also played 20+ games on other sites and it never happened.

As for Newbie 2084, ugh, this game. Had I not been Town Cop in that game, I would have pursued marcistar (not bolded, because I only bold the names of players of the game I'm currently in) until either of us dropped. Turned out she just has a very specific gamestyle. Perhaps my mistake was that I didn't look into her game history. Still, this was no longer an issue in the game past Day 1.

I am on the sidelines of this game, still, as I substituted in, instead of being here from the very start. I thought 6 pages wouldn't be much to catch up with, but I guess it will still take some time for me to feel less like an outsider. There are entire arguments, such as the one between

catboi

(jointly with

Cape90

?) and

notscience

that I'm kinda lost on. I think I know more or less what they're about, but I haven't read into them very deeply.

I would say mostly for this right here.

I am really not sure why I am only like the third wheel in Greetings mind when it comes to the catboi/me/notscience thing when I have been the central point of conflict there

[Cape90]

To expand on that last point a bit -- there's certain tells that people tend to find "objectively" suspicious, as in, they don't really require any nuance or gut to notice, and they usually are immediately obvious to people with experience. It's certainly not bad town play to call these out (as giving them a pass can allow scum to get away with obvious mistakes), and some people like to play with that "see tell call tell" mentality. I read a couple newbie games before this and saw multiple cases of experienced town tunneling on newbie town for making a flagrant tell or two, so it definitely happens. However, especially in games with a mix of new players and more experienced players, focusing on these tells is a pretty safe place for scum to hide. The "mistakes" (as they are mistakes whether the perpetrator is town or scum, since it's either suspicious scum play or bad town play) tend to be more prevalent among newer players, and it's hard to argue against someone who is calling them out since it's easy for them to make a logically sound argument.

Now, most of this isn't suuuper relevant here, especially because I'm still leaning scum on VOID from that earlier post even if the later one didn't push the needle for me, and if he is scum then obviously this doesn't apply. But, especially later in the game once we know some alignments, if I'm still around I'll be keeping an eye on those who make a habit of relying on this type of play.

How would you "keep an eye on someone" for doing something that YOU are doing? What nuances can you point to that would make this activity scummy? If we win the game based on this style of play alone, would the "see tell call tell" mentality still be something worth keeping an eye on in future games?

What I'm trying to get at is; how can you resolve your stated read of scum!VOID with apprehension towards others who are using the same thought process? It kinda reads like hedging a bet or future-distancing from a lim on VOID.

I sort of like the active backreading here, but it still kinda feels like a sort of

coaching

thing in a way where it feels just a bit off and like zefiend knows a bit too much here and possibly making me think he knows what alignment V0id is.

[Cape90]

Also zefiend feels stiff and asks way to many questions. It reminds me of my usual scumplay where I would ask a gazillion questions

[Greeting]

Because to me it doesn't read as trying to find something that you actually find suspicious, it reads as trying to find something that you hope others will latch onto. I think town in this situation would be more concerned about expressing their thoughts fully and finding who they think is scum, but it feels like you're more concerned about trying to start a counter wagon on anyone you can.

This is currently also my major problem with

NK 15

's slot, and also why I got convinced of the wagon so fast when their counter vote came. I think this behavior is indicative of scum.

When it comes to

Dunnstral

's slot, I didn't like the posts of their predecessor, it seemed to me they really lacked the will to play this game in spite of being rather active in other parts of the forum. And I start wondering why. But obviously, this is meta territory.

Dunnstral

has been in the game for a short while as a replacement. Nothing they said warrants any pressure or suspicion on them yet.

[Greeting]

I also want to point out that

V0ID

actually

is

lurking, I've seen them online a couple of times, but they rarely ever post. Keeping your RVS vote at this point of the game is just either

really

lazy or not an RVS vote anymore (RVS stands for "random voting stage"). If it's no longer an RVS vote then I see no explanation for it.

Lurking always brings my attention.

(from Newbie 2082)

I know this is activity-based meta, but I see frogsfrogs online most of the time I'm around and they have almost three times less posts than I do. They aren't posting in any other games. What's up with that? In 221, Val89 strongly townread frogs, without really saying why.

Maybe I'm being paranoid about this, but I think it should be pointed out.

...and frogsfrogs was scum that game.

But lurking is

not

enough for a firm scumread.

[Not Known 15]

Because to me it doesn't read as trying to find something that you actually find suspicious, it reads as trying to find something that you hope others will latch onto. I think town in this situation would be more concerned about expressing their thoughts fully and finding who they think is scum, but it feels like you're more concerned about trying to start a counter wagon on anyone you can.

This is currently also my major problem with

NK 15

's slot, and also why I got convinced of the wagon so fast when their counter vote came. I think this behavior is indicative of scum.

When it comes to

Dunnstral

's slot, I didn't like the posts of their predecessor, it seemed to me they really lacked the will to play this game in spite of being rather active in other parts of the forum. And I start wondering why. But obviously, this is meta territory.

Dunnstral

has been in the game for a short while as a replacement. Nothing they said warrants any pressure or suspicion on them yet.

Well, what you just said

should

warrant a great deal of suspicion and pressure on dunn, in my opinion. Scummy predecessor and just two easily manufactured reads on two players,including an e-1 on one of them, then radio silence?
So why do you come to a different conclusion?

[catboi]

I think Greeting is really towny from what I have seen

I do think he's coming closer to the bar for town-him

[catboi]

Looked over the recent pages again and find myself with little comment.

VOTE: zefiend

Still not terribly opposed to the NK15 wagon but not convinced it flips scum, if it goes through *shrug*

[catboi]

I think the fact that zefiend is seemingly behind in catchup mode but hasn't actually weighed in on the NK15 wagon, the single most significant thing in the game so far, to be fairly scummy, in addition to my earlier dislike of his questioning.

[V0ID]

I also want to point out that

V0ID

actually

is

lurking, I've seen them online a couple of times, but they rarely ever post. Keeping your RVS vote at this point of the game is just either

really

lazy or not an RVS vote anymore (RVS stands for "random voting stage"). If it's no longer an RVS vote then I see no explanation for it.

Lurking always brings my attention.

Hi. Yeah I have been lurking, mostly checking up on the thread every once in a while on my phone during downtime, and trying to keep track and digest everything (keep word: trying). I thought it would be fine to keep my RVS vote until I was ready to vote someone else for real, I guess I should either unvote or join one of the wagons. This is my first forum mafia game so excuse me for that one.
So some thoughts: I always thought zefiend's posts seemed kind of off, but I leaned more toward that was just probably just his personality. His posts just come off as very strong...or overcompensating in a way. But like I said, could just be part of his style or personality. I am still pretty suspicious of cape.

UNVOTE: butterchurn

As for the notknown 15 vote, greeting makes a pretty good case for it. There is something I am a bit confused about if someone could clarify for me. If I were to vote notknown15, that is final right then and there correct?
"When the hammer vote is cast, all players, including the eliminated may talk freely until the final vote count and eliminated player's card-flip have been posted." What is the final vote count mean exactly? Does that mean until the deadline?

[Greeting]

As for the notknown 15 vote, greeting makes a pretty good case for it. There is something I am a bit confused about if someone could clarify for me. If I were to vote notknown15, that is final right then and there correct?
"When the hammer vote is cast, all players, including the eliminated may talk freely until the final vote count and eliminated player's card-flip have been posted." What is the final vote count mean exactly? Does that mean until the deadline?

If you decide to vote for

NK 15

right now, your vote will be so-called hammer. Which means that this was the last vote needed for the formation of a majority required to eliminate

NK 15

- and this is irreversible. Which is why we announce if it’s E-2 (or the player is two votes away from being hammered) or E-1 (one vote away from being hammered). Make sure that you announce „intent to hammer”, preferably bolding it (you can do this in any way you want though) so that

NK 15

has time to respond. This is done to prevent us from eliminating someone with a town power role.

[Not Known 15]

As for the notknown 15 vote, greeting makes a pretty good case for it. There is something I am a bit confused about if someone could clarify for me. If I were to vote notknown15, that is final right then and there correct?
"When the hammer vote is cast, all players, including the eliminated may talk freely until the final vote count and eliminated player's card-flip have been posted." What is the final vote count mean exactly? Does that mean until the deadline?

If you decide to vote for

NK 15

right now, your vote will be so-called hammer. Which means that this was the last vote needed for the formation of a majority required to eliminate

NK 15

- and this is irreversible. Which is why we announce if it’s E-2 (or the player is two votes away from being hammered) or E-1 (one vote away from being hammered). Make sure that you announce „intent to hammer”, preferably bolding it (you can do this in any way you want though) so that

NK 15

has time to respond. This is done to prevent us from eliminating someone with a town power role.

This post is missing an answer to

Because to me it doesn't read as trying to find something that you actually find suspicious, it reads as trying to find something that you hope others will latch onto. I think town in this situation would be more concerned about expressing their thoughts fully and finding who they think is scum, but it feels like you're more concerned about trying to start a counter wagon on anyone you can.

This is currently also my major problem with

NK 15

's slot, and also why I got convinced of the wagon so fast when their counter vote came. I think this behavior is indicative of scum.

When it comes to

Dunnstral

's slot, I didn't like the posts of their predecessor, it seemed to me they really lacked the will to play this game in spite of being rather active in other parts of the forum. And I start wondering why. But obviously, this is meta territory.

Dunnstral

has been in the game for a short while as a replacement. Nothing they said warrants any pressure or suspicion on them yet.

Well, what you just said

should

warrant a great deal of suspicion and pressure on dunn, in my opinion. Scummy predecessor and just two easily manufactured reads on two players,including an e-1 on one of them, then radio silence?
So why do you come to a different conclusion?

[butterchurn]

I think the fact that zefiend is seemingly behind in catchup mode but hasn't actually weighed in on the NK15 wagon, the single most significant thing in the game so far, to be fairly scummy, in addition to my earlier dislike of his questioning.

So... do you think they are scum together then? I agree it's strange that he hasn't commented on it, but if NK15 is town, I see no reason why scum zefiend wouldn't comment on his wagon, especially if he's not planning to vote there. That only leaves the possibility of them being partners for this suspicion to make sense to me.

[catboi]

I think the fact that zefiend is seemingly behind in catchup mode but hasn't actually weighed in on the NK15 wagon, the single most significant thing in the game so far, to be fairly scummy, in addition to my earlier dislike of his questioning.

So... do you think they are scum together then? I agree it's strange that he hasn't commented on it, but if NK15 is town, I see no reason why scum zefiend wouldn't comment on his wagon, especially if he's not planning to vote there. That only leaves the possibility of them being partners for this suspicion to make sense to me.

I do not think that says anything conclusive about NK15's alignment. I simply find it suspect that zefiend is not addressing the subject at all.

[Not Known 15]

What's your opinion on 312?

[Greeting]

@

NK 15

Firstly, I am not going to hold

Dunnstral

accountable for their predecessor’s play, just like I shouldn’t be held accountable for

ahhlo

. Although it’s still the same slot and I am not going to ignore this fact, but since

Dunnstral

have made only three posts, it is simply too early to tell. It would be ridiculous for me to criticise them for jumping on your wagon given that I’m on it as well and I also arrived here quite fast since my entry into this game.

Secondly, I think I already found a prime scum candidate and that is where my focus lies at the moment. If I’m to be honest, if you weren’t my choice, I’d much rather pressure

ɀefiend

than

Dunnstral

(at least for now!) for their bizarre behavior overall.

On another note, I dislike

catboi

’s flaky „meh” attitude (308) towards your wagon. At this point, enough has been said for most people to have an opinion, for or against it. The way

catboi

phrased it, they could easily defend their actions Day 2 both in case you flip town or scum.

[Not Known 15]

Firstly, I am not going to hold Dunnstral accountable for their predecessor’s play, just like I shouldn’t be held accountable for ahhlo. Although it’s still the same slot and I am not going to ignore this fact, but since Dunnstral have made only three posts, it is simply too early to tell. It would be ridiculous for me to criticise them for jumping on your wagon given that I’m on it as well and I also arrived here quite fast since my entry into this game.

Ok, let me tell you something, as SE.
This is a very big play error.
If a slot is scummy it stays scummy until things happen that tell you that it is not scummy. Something else might sound fair, but is not correct play

at all

.

[catboi]

I also want to point out that

V0ID

actually

is

lurking, I've seen them online a couple of times, but they rarely ever post. Keeping your RVS vote at this point of the game is just either

really

lazy or not an RVS vote anymore (RVS stands for "random voting stage"). If it's no longer an RVS vote then I see no explanation for it.

Lurking always brings my attention.

Hi. Yeah I have been lurking, mostly checking up on the thread every once in a while on my phone during downtime, and trying to keep track and digest everything (keep word: trying). I thought it would be fine to keep my RVS vote until I was ready to vote someone else for real, I guess I should either unvote or join one of the wagons. This is my first forum mafia game so excuse me for that one.
So some thoughts: I always thought zefiend's posts seemed kind of off, but I leaned more toward that was just probably just his personality. His posts just come off as very strong...or overcompensating in a way. But like I said, could just be part of his style or personality. I am still pretty suspicious of cape.

UNVOTE: butterchurn

As for the notknown 15 vote, greeting makes a pretty good case for it. There is something I am a bit confused about if someone could clarify for me. If I were to vote notknown15, that is final right then and there correct?
"When the hammer vote is cast, all players, including the eliminated may talk freely until the final vote count and eliminated player's card-flip have been posted." What is the final vote count mean exactly? Does that mean until the deadline?

When a majority of vote is placed on a player, that player is considered "hammered" and the day is over. That ends the day early, regardless of when the deadline is. The "final vote count" gets posted whenever the mod gets online to lock the topic.

[catboi]

Thought void was doing better but that most recent post is hitting a lot of the newbie-scum markers - excuses for not being active, vote hanging around from rvs, weak agreement with the leading wagon, not a lot in the way of anything that's his own thoughts

[Not Known 15]

Ok, this has derailed the thread long enough.

I am a mason, and zefiend is my partner. You think this claim is fake? Wait for zefiend...

Now, move off my wagon!!!
And go somewhere else than zefiend.

[butterchurn]

UNVOTE:

[butterchurn]

I've never played with masons before. Is it correct that their only power is the ability to talk to each other?

[Dunnstral]

Dunn, do you have other reads, other than Cape and myself?

VOTE: Dunnstral

This slot has not been doing much.
Only reads on me and cape, both extremely easy to fake.

Well I think that notsci and catboi are leaning town as that is who I have experience with. I think that your play looks opportunistic.

edit:

UNVOTE:

[Dunnstral]

I've never played with masons before. Is it correct that their only power is the ability to talk to each other?

They also know that each other is town