Open 842: Diffusion of Power [Postgame]

[fua]

and your scumreads are doing those things??

My scumreads are based on forming a team through association as well as their attitude in regards to piling onto certain wagons. I think Tejate (my top scumread) is one of the people doing those things and other people who are pushing for the elimination of inactive slots are making an effort to look like they're contributing as well.

[morph the cat]

I'm quite confident that if I had drawn scum here, 2017 meta would be not among the best indicators of how I'd play.

I'm finding one scum game of yours since the dedede game. Is that right or am I overlooking some?

This

feels

extremely false but i have only found one (guns n roses) though i haven't looked very hard. To be frank I really can't accurately chronologize my recent games given, y'know, time is fake lately - it certainly doesn't

feel

like I've only played one scum game in the past 4+ years though.

I might just not really know how I'd play if I drew mafia at this point.

I didn't find guns and roses! I found a guardians game where you were scum with T3 and S_S.

I'll have a look at that game too.

[implosion]

oh yeah d'oy.

[Tejate Raichu]

But I'm not pushing elimination for inactive slots. I am arguing against them being off the table as potential elims, and I think I have explained why 2 of the more inactive players (NSG and redtea) have other suspicion beyond mere inactivity swirling around them.

I like that answer a lot less than some of your other posts. You clearly understand that merely being active does not equal town if you're putting me among your scummiest slots. And mere agreement has never been enough for me to townread someone. Town is often wrong, and scum loves to exploit that. Are you sure that's it for townbinning morph?

Activity means more opportunities to read them and trace their footprints in the future. A similar thought process is ideal to me because I know I'm townie and for someone to be thinking the same thing without being prompted means that they're following a similar line of logic to the one I am. Also, I wouldn't know because I don't know their meta. Luckily we have 4-6 cops to determine alignment if you're feeling antsy.

Okay, fair enough on the cop thing. But your premise isn't exactly true. Activity means more opportunities to be scumread sure, but it also allows them more opportunities to be townread. I also don't like this idea of "well they said the same thing as me, and I know I'm coming from a town mindset, so they must be town". But I disagree heavily with that sentiment. Scum can see the way the tides are moving against a particular player and manufacture similar enough reasons. That does not necessitate a town mindset. So I'll ask again, what about morph's play so far has actually given you the impression that their reads come from a town mindset beyond knowing your own role?

[fua]

My scumread of you isn't just pushing LHF, it's the way you handled NumberQ's wagon that makes me suspicious in addition to leaning into the qualities that people have liked from you in an effort to be more townread. Your association with other mildly fishy slots to me only makes you more likely to be scum because of the suspicion cast onto my own reads from multiple people covering for each other and you. (Imaginality stepping in and speaking for implosion despite not being sure what to make of him in particular.)

Eliminating someone at random means that they have a chance of flipping town, but they also have a chance at flipping scum too. Part of mafia is using context clues to figure out someone's alignment in tandem with information you've already been given in order to discern what their motivations are. More content means that discerning their alignment is often easier than someone with less. So by your definition it's null at the absolute worst. And... you kind of just cited what you've been doing for most of this game, from sussing redtea/numberQ when their slots were called into question to defending specific players and preventing the tides from moving against them. Sudden turnarounds and speaking on the behalf of others make me a little wary for the most part and I think that my scumreads tend to do that the most.

Morph is bringing new ideas to the table by suspecting those who haven't been getting a lot of heat yet and being more objective in the way that they look at things. I don't really have a reason to scumread them and just saying that their activity means more reasons to townread them if they're scum or that they're good scum players isn't enough to sway my opinion.

[morph the cat]

It is mostly meta, and a lot of it is classified because we generally don't go into details about meta reads unless we're willing to burn a meta tell. That's particularly true of neuterhalf.

I uh, actually, this one isn't classified she knows what it is but hasn't had enough time to reverse-engineer and weaponize it IMO.

[morph the cat]

And Morph is a very dangerous scum player.

I'd like to cite dandelion wine existing to shove this back in ceph's face~

Most of this player list is proven to have a nasty scumgame. The others have it but haven't proven it yet.

It's just the baseline expectation and insert unwnd's ranting about scumteams that make it easy here.

[Cephrir]

I mean yes I don't deny being good either, I just think fua is giving you a pass for behavior that you exhibit in every game.

[Tejate Raichu]

My scumread of you isn't just pushing LHF, it's the way you handled NumberQ's wagon that makes me suspicious in addition to leaning into the qualities that people have liked from you in an effort to be more townread. Your association with other mildly fishy slots to me only makes you more likely to be scum because of the suspicion cast onto my own reads from multiple people covering for each other and you. (Imaginality stepping in and speaking for implosion despite not being sure what to make of him in particular.)

Eliminating someone at random means that they have a chance of flipping town, but they also have a chance at flipping scum too. Part of mafia is using context clues to figure out someone's alignment in tandem with information you've already been given in order to discern what their motivations are. More content means that discerning their alignment is often easier than someone with less. So by your definition it's null at the absolute worst. And... you kind of just cited what you've been doing for most of this game, from sussing redtea/numberQ when their slots were called into question to defending specific players and preventing the tides from moving against them. Sudden turnarounds and speaking on the behalf of others make me a little wary for the most part and I think that my scumreads tend to do that the most.

Morph is bringing new ideas to the table by suspecting those who haven't been getting a lot of heat yet and being more objective in the way that they look at things. I don't really have a reason to scumread them and just saying that their activity means more reasons to townread them if they're scum or that they're good scum players isn't enough to sway my opinion.

What players have I defended from suspicion or spoken on behalf of, exactly? I don't really recall defending much of anyone, unless you can call my take on Ceph vs nQ a defense of Ceph. Even though he isn't even in my townreads slot.

Furthermore, while I could see how you might assume that me not liking redtea's posts is just hopping on the bandwagon, I'm not at all sure why you think my suspicion of numberQ is. I have, multiple times, explained things that stand out to me about nQ starting from very near to when I was just entering the thread. What about this instance warrants it as an example of "riding the wave"?

And I can assure you I'm hardly trying to get more townread, by the by. I think people's opinions on that matter have more or less settled for now, and I don't think I'm going to gain much Good Town Points™ by posting things like this. I want to make sure my thoughts are out there regardless of what happens with my slot.

[Tejate Raichu]

And I sure as hell don't think I'm going to convince you in particular that I'm town unless you check me yourself, or take a nice close look at my corpse.

[redtea]

do scum still jump in for their mates these days tho?

[Tejate Raichu]

do scum still jump in for their mates these days tho?

There's many schools of thought for how to play scum. I don't think there's necessarily one catch all strategy that works every time. If it prevents town from solving, then the play did its job, you know?

[Tejate Raichu]

That said I probably wouldn't on day 1.

[fua]

I mean yes I don't deny being good either, I just think fua is giving you a pass for behavior that you exhibit in every game.

I wouldn't know.

Or would I?

[GuiltyLion]

GuiltyLion, I know you said you don't "need to explain since it's a consensus read", but can you go a bit in-depth on your town read on me?

also what did you mean by this early on:

aaaaahhh Fumuki eh, if you are scum you definitely shouldn't have told me that

what's your opinion of my scum game?

I thought 341 is less likely to come from scum, you went and looked at a prior fua scumgame and found a post that I thought was pretty similar to their opening here. I have a pet tell I've been thinking about that scum

generally

don't do work to find meta reasons to scumread townies, because it's somewhat of an exercise in futility from the start if they know the alignment of the player isn't going to match the meta case they're going to try to make

You said at one point you'd vig me and I don't think you'd be wanting to pick a fight or catch my eye like that if you were scum and knew I am town, but maybe I think too highly of my own reputation

I thought you came across as townie in the back and forth with nQ in the 500s, and the extended paranoia on Tejate I think is less likely for scum to fake at a time when he's otherwise pretty widely townread by the thread, your limpool isn't far off from mine

that post you quoted, that was mostly a small joke to see if you'd react at all, the last game I remember playing with you you were scum and I feel like I remember tunneling you correctly when you were the last scum alive at like 7p or 5p. I think if this here is your scum game it's taken a giant leap, but I haven't played with you in years so I wouldn't say I have an up to date understanding of how you play scum and what you're capable of

[GuiltyLion]

This purely reactive post makes me think you're caught up and perfectly happy with the game state / not doing anything.

Right now I'm rereading morph and implosion in iso so I can answer AL's question about implosion.

As for the gamestate though, yeah.
-We're still like 10 days til deadline
-the game's active
-no danger of anyone I townread getting quicklimmed
-not worried that people aren't impressed by my posts so far as I expect to be able to change their view over the course of the day

I'm not 'not doing anything' but I don't feel the need to shake things up

you should be voting, at the very minimum

[GuiltyLion]

For instance he was about to do something I consider truly AI but people forcing him to engage them ruined it.

can you elaborate on this, though? what would be "truly AI" and how did people ruin it

[GuiltyLion]

Not Voting (6): imaginality, morph the cat, redtea, Tejate Raichu, Ydrasse, Shirou

hot take, not voting makes people harder to solve and gives less content to read them off of than the spectrum of activity/inactivity

I'd like everyone not voting to explain in their next post if they'd be willing to vote redtea and why or why not

[GuiltyLion]

I'm not that willing to vote redtea right now anymore and if everyone accepts Morph hiding their meta tells I hope I can stay quiet on the reasons for this too (although I'm not sure it's a "correct meta tell" but I don't want to explain what about their posts I'm reading them off since I don't think we're gonna get a lot of content from them, so this is the unique way I found of seemingly reading their slot properly).

I'm not town leaning the slot but I don't think their content are as bad as their entrance.

I guess Shirou already did this so he's excused

this is completely useless to me though, for the record, can't work with this at all if you're going to say you're not willing to vote for 'sekret reasons' yet you also don't actually townread them still (??)

you should always be willing to vote slots you don't townread

[northsidegal]

hello i'm back, time to catch up on quite a lot

[Tejate Raichu]

My raichu senses are tingling. I feel like this game is about to get pretty spicy tonight.

[GuiltyLion]

[

numberQ's

] vote has been parked on Ceph but I don't see him engaging with any of Ceph's later content nor working to convince people to also vote there, instead his vote is just kinda languishing.

I also think this is one of the most indicative things I called out in my giant reads post and I want more people to think about / engage with this as well

numberQ is not behaving like someone who still thinks Ceph is the best vote for today

[Tejate Raichu]

Not Voting (6): imaginality, morph the cat, redtea, Tejate Raichu, Ydrasse, Shirou

hot take, not voting makes people harder to solve and gives less content to read them off of than the spectrum of activity/inactivity

I'd like everyone not voting to explain in their next post if they'd be willing to vote redtea and why or why not

I would be because I simply don't feel like I've seen much town motivation for the content related things they have posted, but I'm starting to think maybe putting them as the worst slot may have been a bit hasty. I generally want to avoid haphazardly tossing my vote around, so I'd like to see more content from them before I do that.

I'm still in favor of a potential nQ flip myself, something fua obviously disagrees with so I'm not sure how viable an actual wagon would be. In my opinion they still look very scummy and if they are not, I think their flip could help shed some light. I still need to properly figure out how to read the hydra players though, so I'm not exactly excited about the prospect of going straight into a real vote.

[GuiltyLion]

I'm still in favor of a potential nQ flip myself, something fua obviously disagrees with so I'm not sure how viable an actual wagon would be

you'll never know if you don't try! I'd be willing to join a nQ wagon if it got traction

however I have a few things that make me think I could be wrong in scumreading nQ whereas redtea has yet to fire on my towndar even a single time

I think we have different opinions on the value of voting, I don't see any harm in "haphazardly voting" at all, I think it generates content and builds wagons and is fundamentally pro-town in that way.

[Tejate Raichu]

And I think that's fine, that's just not necessarily how I'd like to play. In rapid fire mafia games I do tend to throw my vote around a lot simply because extremely short timers necessitate that I do so, so that we don't end days in no elim.

I'd like to try a different approach here, since the game is much slower paced. Games here last for multiple weeks, rather than like 20-30 minutes.