Open 842: Diffusion of Power [Postgame]

[Amazonian Legends]

Anyway I’m still 20 pages behind. Maybe I’ll get somewhere with that thought of mine.

[catboi]

Vote Count 2.06

redtea (5):

fua, GuiltyLion, MegAzumarill, Tejate Raichu, Enchant

Tejate Raichu (1):

Cephrir

GuiltyLion (1):

implosion

MegAzumarill (1):

numberQ

Not Voting (4):

Amazonian Legends, morph the cat, redtea, Shirou

With 12 alive, it's 7 to eliminate.

Deadline for Day 2 is January 31 at 6:00 PM EST.

Deadline Timer:

(expired on 2022-01-31 19:00:00)

[GuiltyLion]

i really just want to imagine a world where me, shirou, and gl are all town. bonus points if redtea is also town. it's just such a truly beautiful dumpster fire to imagine.

the issue is I don't see any scum in that world

which is why it's so bonkers to me that you and Shirou are so deadset on town!redtea. not in your words, but in your actions

[Shirou]

i really just want to imagine a world where me, shirou, and gl are all town. bonus points if redtea is also town. it's just such a truly beautiful dumpster fire to imagine.

MOOD

It's gonna be super funny but I'm not talking much about that hypothetical for funsies because GL would try to shade even that I think, regardless of his alignment

/shrug

kkkkk

I think it would be super funny if all of us are town and we're doing all this. Scum would be laughing hard in their PTs by now in that world I think.

...I just hope you aren't pocketing me implo...

[Enchant]

Nah mafia claims early to save their skins, because batshit insane people with hammers are mostly town, as mafia not brave to do that.

???

why would they claim early to save their skins when their skins aren't in danger at that moment?

claiming like I'm right now is definitely weird though, I'll give you that.

Exactly. Mafia don't want to end up on E-1 at all, because whole defending shit prepared will just go down when someone walks and just hammer without thinking. By not letting put self at E-1 mafia protects self.

It's not like mafia fear to claim because of NKs... Yeah?

[morph the cat]

We're not townreading redtea? We declared intent ffs.

ok, I guess I don't understand the point of your question

why do you want me to towncase myself right now?

It was a reaction to your calling Shirou's POV regarding you/redtea as contrived.

It's not the first time you've used it, and it feels like a super-loaded term.

You're both taking really hard stances -- you on redtea's alignment and Shirou on yours.

I dunno that a hard stance on redtea's content actually makes sense.

[Enchant]

Town PRs fear NKs.

Mafia fear hammers. They can't die at night (WELL CAN BUT NOT HERE).


So this.

[GuiltyLion]

it's a hard stance on both redtea's content and the POE strength by virtue of townreads elsewhere

also Enchant is town

[GuiltyLion]

I dunno that a hard stance on redtea's content actually makes sense.

it's also become a harder stance by virtue of a bunch of people (Shirou, implo) just insisting on not voting redtea.

If this were an elim that benefits scum it would have happened years ago

[implosion]

i really just want to imagine a world where me, shirou, and gl are all town. bonus points if redtea is also town. it's just such a truly beautiful dumpster fire to imagine.

the issue is I don't see any scum in that world

which is why it's so bonkers to me that you and Shirou are so deadset on town!redtea. not in your words, but in your actions

i know i don't think it's likely. I just think it would be so, so juicy.

[implosion]

it's also become a harder stance by virtue of a bunch of people (Shirou, implo) just insisting on not voting redtea.

shirou was on the wagon until like an hour ago and i've said it's in practice not really a bad elim even if i think it'll flip town?

[Tejate Raichu]

it's also become a harder stance by virtue of a bunch of people (Shirou, implo) just insisting on not voting redtea.

shirou was on the wagon until like an hour ago and i've said it's in practice not really a bad elim even if i think it'll flip town?

Shirou has also chosen to not revote.

[GuiltyLion]

it's also become a harder stance by virtue of a bunch of people (Shirou, implo) just insisting on not voting redtea.

shirou was on the wagon until like an hour ago and i've said it's in practice not really a bad elim even if i think it'll flip town?

yeah and then as soon as redtea got to E-1 and I started calling him out he decided to unvote, preemptively claim cop, and try to use that claim to push no-lim, Ydra, and myself as viable wagons instead

[GuiltyLion]

all the while insisting he actually doesn't care about redtea and redtea could totally still be scum that I just chose to bus instead of taking a free Tejate elimination HE was pushing for ?? reasons

[implosion]

redtea is a lingering of me thinking their approach to the game is more sensible as detached town than detached scum. Like look at this page, I just don't think detached scum would typically have this little care about how they're perceived.

on the whole, how much do you really believe this? Like would you bet the game on redtea being town? Would you say you're more confident in me being scum than redtea?

I can vibe/understand your gamestate points about me feeling like I could be the active scum, but I think it's really dangerous/bad to be making gamestate views as the foundation for your sort on a hard-to-sort player (me) when you're simultaneously making base assumptions like town!redtea for

really

spurious reasoning. I don't see anything at all that makes me think redtea's play isn't just lazy scum faking apathy for townpoints.

It might be partially unfair to accuse you of lacking nuance on redtea but posts like this make me feel like it. Who the heck "fakes apathy for townpoints"??? Like I could see redtea being scum who is apathetic about the game, but what kind of scum who is genuinely engaged in the game will then fake apathy because they think apathy will look townier than them engaging with people. That just sounds absurd to me, apathy is usually not viewed as townish.

also I was rereading and this post is misreppier than I initially identified

because in the exact post implosion is quoting, I say "

LAZY

scum faking apathy for townpoints"

but implosion says
"what kind of scum

who is genuinely engaged in the game

will then fake apathy because they think apathy will look townier than them engaging with people"

and I never said redtea was genuinely engaged in the game, like I literally said in my post, they'd be playing lazy

Also to respond to this, the phrase "faking apathy", as I was reading it, still implies that they were not actually apathetic... ergo "genuinely engaged", the opposite of apathetic. Even lazy scum who is not apathetic can lazily give reads based on their engagement.

[Shirou]

i really just want to imagine a world where me, shirou, and gl are all town. bonus points if redtea is also town. it's just such a truly beautiful dumpster fire to imagine.

the issue is I don't see any scum in that world

exactly GL

so real talk, supposing you are town, can you understand it's not exactly gamethrowing for me to do this?

Even if I played tomorrow, my read on implo wouldn't likely change, so it would still be you vs Me imo, and even if you were gonna do something else, I would still likely jump on until you began pushing me back. I know I'm town and even if redtea is scum I believe implo is town, so even if redtea ever flips scum I still think you simply bussed rather than implo is one of the scum.

There's Meg/Tejate/Ydra/Morph sure, but uh, I kinda think maybe Meg/Tejate aren't scum together, so although not impossible you're town, due to your posts I'm also very confident you're scum because there's barely anyone else to be scum in my pov with my assumptions.

You can still believe it's scummy, etc, but like...don't call it gamethrow. I'm town but I'm not gamethrowing. Even if there may have been alternatives where I could just have put effort in trying to 1v1 you tomorrow, I simply don't have the energy for that.

I'm using all the energy left on me right now, and going off to the sun to enjoy my birthday tomorrow, and I want to stop caring for this game for a bit from now on rather than get in a furious 1v1 with you tomorrow regardless of redtea or anyone else's flips.

[GuiltyLion]

Even if I played tomorrow, my read on implo wouldn't likely change, so it would still be you vs Me imo, and even if you were gonna do something else, I would still likely jump on until you began pushing me back. I know I'm town and even if redtea is scum I believe implo is town, so even if redtea ever flips scum I still think you simply bussed rather than implo is one of the scum.

real talk, if you're town, and redtea flips scum, your read on implo doesn't change at all? why? you think it's more likely I choose to bus redtea (over pushing Meg or Tejate instead) than it is implo chooses to defend a buddy?

[Shirou]

also the above post isn't because I think GL is town

but because in the chance I'm ever wrong on him being scum, I don't want people to think I was gamethrowing with my play here

when you consider the fact I'm exhausted of this game, there's not that many great alternatives to what I'm doing here imo. No one would buy my n3 cop claim at E-1 tomorrow if I had lost a 1v1 due to low energy tomorrow, and GL had just confirmed that regardless of whether redtea flips town or not, he seemed to be gunning for me (and likely implo), which was the last straw for me to be cautious of doing this wacky course of actions.

p-edit: wait a min

[GuiltyLion]

Also to respond to this, the phrase "faking apathy", as I was reading it, still implies that they were not actually apathetic... ergo "genuinely engaged", the opposite of apathetic. Even lazy scum who is not apathetic can lazily give reads based on their engagement.

I already addressed this

this also feels like a semantic nitpick or misunderstanding, maybe "fake apathy for townpoints" isn't the best phrasing but it should be obvious I'm not saying redtea is actually secretly engaged and just faking apathy, I mean more like they're staying in their projected apathetic lane because no one is forcing them to do anything outside of that. Maybe I should have said "faking [being apathetic town] for townpoints", "fake" is meant to be operative on "town" not "apathy", but I can see how that's not well-written.

the context of my saying "lazy scum" should have tipped you off that I wasn't implying redtea was actually engaged

[morph the cat]

it's a hard stance on both redtea's content and the POE strength by virtue of townreads elsewhere

also Enchant is town

What makes him town to you?

[Shirou]

Even if I played tomorrow, my read on implo wouldn't likely change, so it would still be you vs Me imo, and even if you were gonna do something else, I would still likely jump on until you began pushing me back. I know I'm town and even if redtea is scum I believe implo is town, so even if redtea ever flips scum I still think you simply bussed rather than implo is one of the scum.

real talk, if you're town, and redtea flips scum, your read on implo doesn't change at all? why? you think it's more likely I choose to bus redtea (over pushing Meg or Tejate instead) than it is implo chooses to defend a buddy?

yeah GL...like I know I'm town and I also "defended" redtea just like implo

like

we used literally the same arguments, literally the same mindset

I can't help but see him as town on the redtea's thingy. In fact, no one OTHER than you seemed so confident on pushing redtea here?

I know I'm town and I also know if I was scum together with redtea I wouldn't have tried to step up for them, so I think the same of implo.

[Tejate Raichu]

I still genuinely cannot believe you had the idea that you would be pushed to E-1 tomorrow. This series of posts skyrocketed your chances of that happening, not lowered them.

I think you may have fulfilled your own prophecy in trying to avoid it.

[Shirou]

If I get confirmed as town in a NK, I think everyone collectively at least should understand that implo stepping up for redtea a bit isn't necessarily scummy

like, idk, even if implo is scum I feel like he was trying to pocket me with that, rather than truly trying to defuse the wagon on a buddy.

[GuiltyLion]

@morph, he replaced into the game and started posting and giving thoughts without even reading

his position on Shirou is fairly nuanced ("I like the no lim plan", "scum would claim early here") that doesn't reflect an agenda in how he wants to treat Shirou

and I played with him as scum not long ago in that White Flag game we've mentioned a few times and he was a lot more disengaged and awkward, I'm he repped into that one too so maybe I'll go back and check his entry but this doesn't vibe how I remember him as scum

altogether it doesn't feel to me like the way scum would behave on entering a game with a bit of a delicate/tricky gamestate

[fua]

I agree with GL and Tejate actually. This is an abysmal series of posts from Shirou.