Newbie 2087 | Celebrating Betty White | End!

[ProgoWoshua]

While I'm still taken aback for how quickly and how intensely Ahri has been Town Reading Somnus...

I'm also interested in why you were "taken aback" by how "intensely" Ahri was TR'ing Somnus?

The emphasis was supposed to be on "quickly". This all started before Somnus started to post their notes and analysis.

[fferyllt]

Vote Count 2-5

And it was on Password that Betty met the love of her life. She and Allen Ludden were married in Las Vegas at the Sands Hotel in 1963.

Korina

(2): Ahri, Cat Scratch Fever

Cat Scratch Fever

(1): Cape90

Not Voting

(4): Korina, ProgoWoshua, MalcolmTucker, Somnus

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to eliminate.

Deadline: February 2, Midnight US Eastern Time.

Countdown: (expired on 2022-02-01 21:00:00)

Mod Notes:

-

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Cape, are you big on reading meta?

I like to try too, but admittedly, I have to play many games with a person to fully pick up their meta

I'm assuming you haven't found a better scumspect in the last few days, since your vote is still on me.

We've already talked about the posts of mine that you didn't like that I think are mostly attributed to your lack of context when you first read the game.

The other posts of mine that you didn't like basically boil down to personality, either the tone didn't rub you the right way or b/c you thought it was performative or something.

I'm hate scumposting and generally do the bare minimum to get by. I loathe talking to people in real time because I have to think a lot to get my story straight, so I have to take notes as scum, whereas I can talk off the wall for hours as town. Just do a 5 min skim of some of my past games and I'm interested to see if you think I'm still scum here, because with ~3 days left, your parked vote should be better placed.

I would argue this also would go for Malcolm as well which is kinda why I was leaning Cat over him. Like is it within Malcolm's interest as mafia to push Ahri and say Ahri is scum for

-undisclosed meta reasons-

? I am not too terribly sure about this.

That's not why he's scumreading Ahri. That boils down to:

- Ahri's doing weird, unpredictable things that are scummy, such as the self-vote and accusing Progo of scumslipping.

- There's one scum off and one scum on wagon, and Ahri is most likely scum offwagon.

Scum have to be pushing somewhere anyway, why not Ahri? Pushing someone doing outlandish things is easy to do.

I also think Korina's 180 on Ahri overnight as also suspicious, and struck me as perhaps both scum didn't want to both be pushing Ahri at the same time.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

How so? I said that he believes Ahri is scum. I didn't say I did. It literally says that in the rest of the post.

If Malcolm is scum, he can't genuinely believe Ahri is scum, unless you think {Malcolm, Ahri} is exactly the scumteam.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

so you can either think "Malcolm genuinely scumreads Ahri" and "Malcolm is probably scum" (implicitly said with the vote on Malcolm), but not both.

Sorry, pressed submit too early.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Would it help if everyone listed their pool of like 2-3 scum candidates? I feel like I have a general idea of where everyone is, so maybe it's not necessary, but there seems to be a general consensus regarding a couple of people.

{Cat, Malcolm, Korina} for me.

A bit odd that I'm here when my current solve is {Malcolm, Korina}.

can you expand on these?

---

But when you start using that style as a reason to say you're not mafia? Yeah, that's suspect.

Why though?

Do you disagree with the premise that town are less likely to care about attracting attention to themselves? And for the record, Ahri also put forth other reasons for townreading her, not just this one.

---

That actually sounds pretty reasonable to me.

What about it struck you as reasonable enough to make you unvote Malcolm?

Also yes, scum have a higher rate of replacing out b/c people tend to not like playing scum more. Ideally this shouldn't happen because it's against the rules I think, but it does. But in this case, I think it's pretty clear that Strange replaced out of emotion, not out of tactically avoiding the game.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Fixing the quotes from my previous post

Would it help if everyone listed their pool of like 2-3 scum candidates? I feel like I have a general idea of where everyone is, so maybe it's not necessary, but there seems to be a general consensus regarding a couple of people.

{Cat, Malcolm, Korina} for me.

A bit odd that I'm here when my current solve is {Malcolm, Korina}.

can you expand on these?

---

But when you start using that style as a reason to say you're not mafia? Yeah, that's suspect.

Why though?

Do you disagree with the premise that town are less likely to care about attracting attention to themselves? And for the record, Ahri also put forth other reasons for townreading her, not just this one.

---

That actually sounds pretty reasonable to me.

What about it struck you as reasonable enough to make you unvote Malcolm?

Also yes, scum have a higher rate of replacing out b/c people tend to not like playing scum more. Ideally this shouldn't happen because it's against the rules I think, but it does. But in this case, I think it's pretty clear that Strange replaced out of emotion, not out of tactically avoiding the game.

[ProgoWoshua]

Would it help if everyone listed their pool of like 2-3 scum candidates? I feel like I have a general idea of where everyone is, so maybe it's not necessary, but there seems to be a general consensus regarding a couple of people.

{Cat, Malcolm, Korina} for me.

A bit odd that I'm here when my current solve is {Malcolm, Korina}.

can you expand on these?

It's process of elimination. I townread Ahri, Cape and Somnus over you three.

[Korina]

VOTE: Malcolm

I’m kinda just firmly here and think there’s not a lot more to be said.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Would it help if everyone listed their pool of like 2-3 scum candidates? I feel like I have a general idea of where everyone is, so maybe it's not necessary, but there seems to be a general consensus regarding a couple of people.

{Cat, Malcolm, Korina} for me.

A bit odd that I'm here when my current solve is {Malcolm, Korina}.

can you expand on these?

It's process of elimination. I townread Ahri, Cape and Somnus over you three.

Today must be your lucky day, because there's wagons on all three of us. The world is your oyster! Which wagon will you vote?

[Somnus]

I'm going to have an insanely busy Monday and Tuesday, so I'm probably going to have to cast my final vote of Day 2 tomorrow. I'm kind of leaning Korina at this point.

[Ahri]

tfw game is active and i feel less motivated to post

is it weird that
SM was the most anti-town player possible and I tr'ed them for it
but Cape revived the entire game and I'm not completely ready to tr them for it

xd

anyways I'll vote with Somnus and Cape / CSF, I'd rather not lim cape or csf today just because they're probably the two strongest players left
I genuinely don't have a strong position on anything anymore
also multigaming heavily so I'll defer to your opinions unless I read something I heavily dislike

[ProgoWoshua]

Would it help if everyone listed their pool of like 2-3 scum candidates? I feel like I have a general idea of where everyone is, so maybe it's not necessary, but there seems to be a general consensus regarding a couple of people.

{Cat, Malcolm, Korina} for me.

A bit odd that I'm here when my current solve is {Malcolm, Korina}.

can you expand on these?

It's process of elimination. I townread Ahri, Cape and Somnus over you three.

Today must be your lucky day, because there's wagons on all three of us. The world is your oyster! Which wagon will you vote?

It isn't. I would prefer to have a wagon on just one of you so that it's easier to vote. But, in the interest of moving things along:

VOTE: MalcolmTurker

[MalcolmTucker]

@Progo what's your reasoning on me thus far? As far as I was aware you didn't particularly have a lot of suspicion on me, unless I've missed that?

[MalcolmTucker]

Would it help if everyone listed their pool of like 2-3 scum candidates? I feel like I have a general idea of where everyone is, so maybe it's not necessary, but there seems to be a general consensus regarding a couple of people.

{Cat, Malcolm, Korina} for me.

A bit odd that I'm here when my current solve is {Malcolm, Korina}.

can you expand on these?

---

But when you start using that style as a reason to say you're not mafia? Yeah, that's suspect.

Why though?

Do you disagree with the premise that town are less likely to care about attracting attention to themselves? And for the record, Ahri also put forth other reasons for townreading her, not just this one.

---

That actually sounds pretty reasonable to me.

What about it struck you as reasonable enough to make you unvote Malcolm?

Also yes, scum have a higher rate of replacing out b/c people tend to not like playing scum more. Ideally this shouldn't happen because it's against the rules I think, but it does. But in this case, I think it's pretty clear that Strange replaced out of emotion, not out of tactically avoiding the game.

I'm not really getting why Korina would be voting for me at this stage if we were a team. As a player they've got an alright chance of going out at the moment, but not to the point where it's absolute and it's worth putting direct heat onto a team member. Especially when I've not quite been fully cleared yet either, has its risks.

The mafia have managed to do alright out of the first two turns - there's no real consensus and we're - to a point - going on guesses and instinct at the moment. I'd be somewhat surprised if the two mafia teammates are piling a lot of pressure onto the other. If anything, players who've applied light pressure to each other without ever going all-in seem like our best bet for me. Especially with Ahri who has flipped on players constantly throughout the game, and who has now decided to conveniently take more of a backseat at an incredibly opportune moment.

[MalcolmTucker]

tfw game is active and i feel less motivated to post

is it weird that
SM was the most anti-town player possible and I tr'ed them for it
but Cape revived the entire game and I'm not completely ready to tr them for it

xd

anyways I'll vote with Somnus and Cape / CSF, I'd rather not lim cape or csf today just because they're probably the two strongest players left

I genuinely don't have a strong position on anything anymore
also multigaming heavily so I'll defer to your opinions unless I read something I heavily dislike

If you do come back to be town then this is kinda poor gameplay and isn't helping us at all. It's likely that one of the stronger players we're trusting at the moment could turn out to be mafia because we've not caught one yet and quite frankly we don't look like we're decisively going to in this round. It'd be better if town players were at least making an effort to try and deduce who is mafia, especially if their reason for not bothering at all is simply because they've lost interest and are focusing on another game.

I still expect and think this is probably a feint and your inactivity is a useful way to get any remaining heat to die off but if not it really isn't helping our case.

[ProgoWoshua]

@Progo what's your reasoning on me thus far? As far as I was aware you didn't particularly have a lot of suspicion on me, unless I've missed that?

As I've explained in #1132, I narrow it down to you, Cat and Korina because I townread Ahri, Cape and Somnus over you three.

You didn't give much reason to SR you, but you also didn't give me much reason to TR you.

[MalcolmTucker]

@Progo what's your reasoning on me thus far? As far as I was aware you didn't particularly have a lot of suspicion on me, unless I've missed that?

As I've explained in #1132, I narrow it down to you, Cat and Korina because I townread Ahri, Cape and Somnus over you three.

You didn't give much reason to SR you, but you also didn't give me much reason to TR you.

But I'm interested specifically here on what's making you prop for me in the vote as opposed to CSF or Korina. Not even in a defensive way - just intrigued what we're lacking in terms of a TR that the others have.

In your initial reading of CSF, you seemed to suspect them to a degree because they'd relentlessly mistrusted you for a time. You didn't really have any thoughts on me or Korina at all. What's changed there?

[MalcolmTucker]

Reading back through the start and finding it really interesting how LQ was one of the first players to properly heap some pressure on Andante. Evidently it gave some mafia players some cover to join that bandwagon a bit without looking suspicious because a strong townie also suspected Andante. Obviously there was plenty of movement after that but Andante never quite recovered and was always regarded as one of the main suspects from thereon forward as a result.

I'm intrigued in the extent to which Somnus was being TR'd early on too. Again a good player operating with lots of logic and detail but that's absolutely something you'd expect from a competent mafia player too. I find it interesting that in Somnus' detailed analysis early on he manages to point out plenty of details which could make Ahri seem suspicious without leaning in too hard on that. As far as I'm aware since then Somnus has started TR'ing Ahri to a greater extent...but he expected more paper game content from Ahri in her posts. If anything I'd argue she's gone the other way, there was at least some posts analysing others early on which feel like they've faded away a bit now, especially in light of recent posts. An Ahri/Somnus team where Somnus has told Ahri to lie low while he's not going to be around as much strikes me as perfectly plausible.

With the Progo/Andante stuff, it's interesting that Progo got back on said bandwagon after his initial early vote for Andante which he quickly withdrew. I feel like a mafia would potentially be kinda wary to jump back on said bandwagon since they'd potentially look suspicious. But by the same token you could read it as an inexperienced mafia who initially jumped on Andante, panicked the moment they got a response from her, before then reversing course once the town as a whole was leaning that way.

[MalcolmTucker]

Also - re how to vote this round, I'm kinda unsure.

Naturally I still suspect Ahri and I'll likely cast a vote in that direction. But given my theory we've got one mafia on the bandwagon, I do wonder if there's a bit of a big risk of eliminating someone who's voted for a live player that could be mafia. While there will be players on the Andante bandwagon who suspected her like LQ, there's also likely mafia there, and thus far the four living players who opted for her are four players who have all directly got rid of a fellow townie.

But the issue then is...who to go for? I suspect Somnus a bit based on my above post but he's been a key player so far and I don't think I'd be willing to risk losing him at this point. CSF is an option I guess...her and Ahri have been mostly friendly, but then same can be said for Somnus and Ahri. Possible Ahri just went all-in early on in trying to TR a mafia partner when the game was quiet. It's really interesting how a few select posts early on informed so much of what came after. Which is why I don't buy comments that activity in this particular game has been a bad or risky approach for mafia players.

Other options are Korina and Progo. Both strike me as unlikely to be teammates of Ahri due to past conflicts.

[ProgoWoshua]

@Progo what's your reasoning on me thus far? As far as I was aware you didn't particularly have a lot of suspicion on me, unless I've missed that?

As I've explained in #1132, I narrow it down to you, Cat and Korina because I townread Ahri, Cape and Somnus over you three.

You didn't give much reason to SR you, but you also didn't give me much reason to TR you.

But I'm interested specifically here on what's making you prop for me in the vote as opposed to CSF or Korina. Not even in a defensive way - just intrigued what we're lacking in terms of a TR that the others have.

In your initial reading of CSF, you seemed to suspect them to a degree because they'd relentlessly mistrusted you for a time. You didn't really have any thoughts on me or Korina at all. What's changed there?

I just picked one at random. But if you insists:

UNVOTE: MalcolmTucker
VOTE: Korina

E-1 and stuff.

[Korina]

I claim mason.

[Korina]

Scum is going to cc me, but I am mason with LQ.

[Korina]

I have much stronger PT play than I do thread play, and I mostly coordinated stuff with LQ in the PT on d1, and then my partner going down on d2 has really tanked any motivation to try to continue reading, especially when the reads I've gotten to are {sm, malcolm}

[Korina]

Well, Cape at this point, but point still stands