Open 842: Diffusion of Power [Postgame]

[GuiltyLion]

Because I think I'll? I would be a bit surprised if scum NKs me.

Yesterday whether I was a possible miselimination or not was still a bit less obvious, but today it's VERY obvious that even if I came up with a guilty, I would be the first to go. If we believe most claims so far, scum doesn't have a lot of room to hide here, every miselimination is rather important for them.

Assuming you are town, I still think this is just wrong, it's far more valuable to get rid of the possibility of you getting a guilty, that would be more limiting to their potential endgame strategies than losing a viable D4 miselimination

not really worth arguing this point any further with you though

anyway I'm waffling on whether I should claim, are we going through with massclaim or not? so far the only people who have full claimed (Tejate and fua) are N3 roles and I think those were valuable to claim for the coordination, but N4 or N5 I'm starting to worry might be less so, despite my posts yesterday. I'm kinda the flip side of implosion, vaguely in favor of massclaim for the info but not staunchly so. I don't want to out unless we're committed to this. Shirou is making a good point that the extra save (and therefore extra lim) is the most valuable use of remaining docs - but I don't have a good intuitive feel of how likely we are to get a save if everyone remains unclaimed

[Enchant]

U don't really understand what so special in my goodwill post like i just post idk.

[numberQ]

I mulled on it over night and I guess it does make sense to leave Shirou alive today. It gives me a lot of pause though because the biggest proponent of that plan is the person who's at the chopping block. So if Shirou is scum that means Shirou getting out this investigation factors into scum's plans somehow. But idk, maybe it's just desperation to last as long as possible.

Actually, even if Shirou isn't scum, there hasn't been much push to lim him today besides from me, and I don't think that would be a difficult mislim to pull off. Which means either way him surviving to tomorrow is part of scum's plan.

hmm. I'm gonna leave my vote here but I plan to look back and focus on who the other scum might be.

[Shirou]

I mulled on it over night and I guess it does make sense to leave Shirou alive today. It gives me a lot of pause though because the biggest proponent of that plan is the person who's at the chopping block. So if Shirou is scum that means Shirou getting out this investigation factors into scum's plans somehow. But idk, maybe it's just desperation to last as long as possible.

Actually, even if Shirou isn't scum, there hasn't been much push to lim him today besides from me, and I don't think that would be a difficult mislim to pull off. Which means either way him surviving to tomorrow is part of scum's plan.

hmm. I'm gonna leave my vote here but I plan to look back and focus on who the other scum might be.

thank you

[fua]

I would literally bet the entire game on Enchant being town.

[Shirou]

I think scum doesn't want to push too hard for my miselimination today because it would be a bad look when I flip cop, so they are most likely expressing willingness to vote me, but perhaps not trying to lead the wagon on me to not be responsible tomorrow. I think they have been mostly testing room temperature for me today, regardless of who they are.

If you kept pushing it until the end of the day NQ, I may have given you some town points even though I think it would be a problematic stance to have for today, but either way I like the fact you backed down even if it's also what I believe scum!NQ would do after seeing not much support for me today.

[Shirou]

I would literally bet the entire game on Enchant being town.

hmm, okay, I'll trust your read on them in that case. I also want to trust Amazon read on Morph but uh...I don't think they were town reading morph that strongly.

[Enchant]

I would literally bet the entire game on Enchant being town.

I did nothing whole game, idk why i am paragon in your eyes.

[Shirou]

U don't really understand what so special in my goodwill post like i just post idk.

the special thing about your post is that you're not openly treating me as "almost confirmed scum" as most other people are. You may think it's the case as well but the way you engaged me is different from everyon else, it's how one engages someone that they want to genuinely chat with rather than ~kinda chat~ while keeping their distance due to suspicion, or trying to dissect all my points for accusations.

Amazon was kinda similar, but now they are unfortunately dead, so now it's kinda only you. It's still a relief to be listened in goodfaith by even one single person though, so that's why I said thank you.



It's kinda rather demotivating when literally no one is interested on what you've to say other than to try to use it to accuse you further. It feels like your opinions/reads no long matter so why bother...

[Shirou]

I don't have much experience in being in this position to be honest, especially as town. Maybe I'm getting a bit emotional, but it also makes me wonder if I should change how I approach my scum reads, because I'm of course often wrong on them, and one of my "tactics" to wagon them is to try to hurt their credibility so that people stop taking what they say seriously, either due to suspicious or exposing some logical inconsistency in their argument. I think it's an effective way to do it, but it's also...hm, not the nicest way to do it when you're wrong. I can see that now, I feel bad for Imaginality.

[fua]

I would literally bet the entire game on Enchant being town.

I did nothing whole game, idk why i am paragon in your eyes.

I have a reason.

[Enchant]

What we have potentially for now:

Doctor - imaginality
Doctor - Amazonian Legends
Doctor - Enchant
Doctor - Tejate Raichu
Doctor OR Cop -
Doctor OR Cop -
Cop - Fua
Cop - Shirou
Cop
Cop

I don't know about any 1-2 Night Cops (they would have claimed already yeah?) so i assume all cops are 3+ nights.

[GuiltyLion]

you're missing numberQ's N1 cop claim

[GuiltyLion]

It's kinda rather demotivating when literally no one is interested on what you've to say other than to try to use it to accuse you further. It feels like your opinions/reads no long matter so why bother...

not to uh, use what you have to say to accuse further, but this is just AtE

if you're town there's two scum left to find, but instead you're still making everything about yourself and saying "why bother" playing?? certainly you have to understand you've lost some credibility by pushing imaginality and defending redtea so hard, but that doesn't mean nothing you do matters anymore especially if you wind up flipping town

stop posting self defenses and start scumhunting, no one is limming you today by virtue of your claim you have a free day, and you're still just pumping out wall after wall about why you don't play this way as scum, which is virtually useless. that's why I haven't been interested in what you have to say, defending yourself is literally the least valuable thing you could be doing for me right now

let's talk about morph - what do you think of them accusing me of being scum trying to get a "free ride" off fua's fake guilty? Part of me thinks it's a perspective slip because it doesn't make a lot of sense - if I were scum and morph town then I would

know

the guilty is fake and I'd be expecting it to get retracted, so I'm not sure that I believe that morph genuinely thinks I was hoping it would go through. you seemed to think morph being indignant was genuine. Ceph said that he thinks this is the kind of thing scum would fake getting indignant about, did you ever respond to that? 2862

[GuiltyLion]

also, you say you townread implo because you had such similar feelings that redtea was town - do you think it's not possible at all that you were getting buddied there? I'm having a hard time intuitively feeling out who is your POE suspect pool - morph, Meg, myself? I know you don't like my interactions with redtea because you think I was too sure they were scum, what do you think of Morph and Meg's?

[GuiltyLion]

eph said that he thinks this is the kind of thing scum would fake getting indignant about, did you ever respond to that? 2862

EBWOP because I misphrased/mischaracterized Ceph here, he said it was what scum could

genuinely

** get indignant about, not fake*. Not sure what happened there lol

[Enchant]

Thanks.

Doctor - imaginality
Doctor - Amazonian Legends
Doctor - Enchant
Doctor - Tejate Raichu
Doctor OR Cop -
Doctor OR Cop -
Cop - Fua
Cop - Shirou
Cop - numberQ
Cop

[Shirou]

not to uh, use what you have to say to accuse further, but this is just AtE

kkkk this is kinda exactly what I was talking about but it's fine, it's part of the game, just a tiring one.

if you're town there's two scum left to find, but instead you're still making everything about yourself and saying "why bother" playing?? certainly you have to understand you've lost some credibility by pushing imaginality and defending redtea so hard, but that doesn't mean nothing you do matters anymore especially if you wind up flipping town

stop posting self defenses and start scumhunting, no one is limming you today by virtue of your claim you have a free day, and you're still just pumping out wall after wall about why you don't play this way as scum, which is virtually useless. that's why I haven't been interested in what you have to say, defending yourself is literally the least valuable thing you could be doing for me right now

It's true I did self-defend myself quite a bit but uh...I was just discussing up until now Enchant being town with fua, what I think would be a scum stance today, if massclaim is good or not, etc. This is a bit disingenuous, I've been defending myself but I've also been talking about other stuff.

About Morph, just like you I think it's odd that they believe you could ride the fake guilty to a elimination before fua revealed it was fake, however they also seem really sensitive about fake guilties, so it's not impossible that they think it's a possible move for scum!guiltylion in their head, even if most other people would disagree it's a feasible plan. So...it's kinda dependent on whether I believe they truly are this sensitive to fake guilties, and I don't think I can answer that without researching a bit of their meta, right now I could only try to guess at most. I've been thinking about it but no conclusion so far so I didn't comment on it.

About Ceph saying it's the kind of thing scum would indignant about, I kinda agree that Morph would react strongly as scum to this as well, but they seem to be playing the "moral"/"ethical" quite a bit, and that part specifically is what makes me think that maybe, and just maybe, it's a town point for the slot? They would get indignant about it as scum but would they think it's "unethical"? It's the first thing about the slot that I could reasonably call towny from a certain pov. I kinda maintain my initial take.

[Enchant]

10 people alive.

2 are me and Fua, who are town.

Exclude yourself.

And that's 2/7 chance to get guilty if you are both town, if we nolim today, and 2/6 if we lim. And that's just by random.

Like, we are in chocolate as long as we won't suck.

[Cephrir]

i skimmed morph's iso for redtea interactions.

they have been remarkably consistent about being anti-him, and seemed to get frustrated with him on a few occasions.

this doesn't really make me feel any kind of way. i guess i wanted to see them put forward a passionate case, particularly d1 as they observed they were not getting their wagon. i do understand that this was a tall order given that redtea did not do anything to case.

i feel like i've seen them get passionate and emotional about the way they are being read repeatedly and have been happy to wield guilt like a cudgel to get me to stop wanting to vote them (they will surely do this again in response to this post), but that passion hasn't appeared anywhere around solving the game afaict. i don't really understand why townthem is so affronted about scumreads on them when the game they have played is not particularly exceptional.

[Cephrir]

like i've been not focusing here because every time i do they come back with making me feel bad about it. i don't like that!

[Shirou]

also, you say you townread implo because you had such similar feelings that redtea was town - do you think it's not possible at all that you were getting buddied there? I'm having a hard time intuitively feeling out who is your POE suspect pool - morph, Meg, myself? I know you don't like my interactions with redtea because you think I was too sure they were scum, what do you think of Morph and Meg's?

maybe implo did buddy me, but I don't have any particular good reason to suspect it's the case vs us two being town having a mindmeld. It doesn't feel like they are trying to pocket me very much, they never even threw me a town lean or town read when I was a consensus one.

Morph/Meg's interactions with redtea are...uh, not very relevant? The unique thing of note I remember about morph/redtea is that morph was kinda trying to prevent a hammer (not sure if I'm misremembering though), which I guess is objectively +scum points for them, but Meg's is...really meh? Meg had both ydra/redtea as scum reads for "coasting through the game", but they mostly only focused on ydra, and even back in D1 where redtea was begin wagoned, they voted for ydra rather than put pressure on redtea.

I said back then it was a bit of a weird trajectory (voting a vanity wagon vs putting pressure on someone you scum read and has a proper wagon on), and I still maintain that take, it's my main reason to scum read Meg since D1, so that's why I'm not talking much about my PoE. Redtea flip doesn't make anyone on it townier, and it's almost a PoE based on the fact I believe most claims so far. I think NQ dropped a bit on my read list, and Enchant ascended, but it's probably my bias.

There's really...not a lot new to talk in my opinion by this point on my scum reads. It kinda feels like we're getting close to PoE, and we either can win through that or we'll find out that one of the claims so far is false.

[Shirou]

like, with the exception of my slot, I think we've had roughly the same pool of suspects since D1. I kinda talked extensively already through my ISO about Morph, Meg, Tejate, GuiltyLion.

If it was up to me I would genuinely begin quick eliminations on the pool. We're kinda talking in circles when we talk about scum reads. That's why I'm not talking that much about it aside from the fact I also want to let other people lead the dayphase more.

[Cephrir]

VOTE: morph

look i will feel bad if this misses but ive given so much room for you to prove this isn't the game i get to catch you. at this point i think it just is.

pls don't bite my head off.

[Shirou]

hmm

this game needs less talking and more votes imo so

VOTE: morph

really sorry if wrong morph