Open 842: Diffusion of Power [Postgame]

[Shirou]

I didn't want to do this right now but if it's between no elimination, taking GL out of my cop list and voting GL today. I'm down to voting him today.

/shrug

VOTE: GuiltyLion

Morph let's go if you're town, put your vote back on GL?

[Shirou]

Also, what list would you suggest instead?

Shirou: GL
fua: implosion/Shirou/Meg
implosion: morph/Tejate/nQ

also no we aren't following a list suggestion from a suspect

it's either the cops themselves making suggestions or Ceph for me.

[fua]

Fua, I can only give you GL if you leash on him. Only him, no WIFOM, since you can't possibly die.

Also...if you take me GL off me like this I want you added in my potential cop pool as well. So my pool would be morph/NQ/fua.

I’m fine with that. Go ahead.

[Enchant]

also, I think no elimination is a grave mistake. And if you talk about how I had suggested no elimination yesterday, re:read my ISO because I already explained that before.

Please explain why it's mistake, because i see it as not bad move (exactly not bad, of course killing maf is better). Like, we will need to skip anyway, unless other doc will save someone (which is fairly unlikely).

[fua]

also, I think no elimination is a grave mistake. And if you talk about how I had suggested no elimination yesterday, re:read my ISO because I already explained that before.

Please explain why it's mistake, because i see it as not bad move (exactly not bad, of course killing maf is better). Like, we will need to skip anyway, unless other doc will save someone (which is fairly unlikely).

Because it doesn’t narrow down the PoE at all and just lets mafia get a kill. We can skip later after we narrow down the PoE and cops get their results. I just don’t think there are any positives to letting mafia kill whoever they want.

[Enchant]

I wanted answer from Shirou. Fine i quess.

I have feeling that we should go Morph if we killing, GL doesh't smell like mafia for me. It's more of feeling, can't reason expect for... Uh blatant trying to save redtea probably not smart decision for maf.

[Tejate Raichu]

also, I think no elimination is a grave mistake. And if you talk about how I had suggested no elimination yesterday, re:read my ISO because I already explained that before.

Please explain why it's mistake, because i see it as not bad move (exactly not bad, of course killing maf is better). Like, we will need to skip anyway, unless other doc will save someone (which is fairly unlikely).

Because it doesn’t narrow down the PoE at all and just lets mafia get a kill. We can skip later after we narrow down the PoE and cops get their results. I just don’t think there are any positives to letting mafia kill whoever they want.

fua... we have 3 claimed N3 cops. How on earth is that not narrowing down PoE to wait until we get their results?

[Tejate Raichu]

It's not even guaranteed to let mafia get a kill either. Mafia essentially has to target one of you three tonight or risk losing the game. Any unclaimed N3 docs have it very easy tonight. And if they do choose someone else? We get 3 guaranteed results anyways, at least one of which is 100% true.

[Tejate Raichu]

I explicitly said yesterday that I would be comfortable with no-lim today if redtea flipped scum. That happening is the only reason I haven't death tunneled Shirou yet, so if I'm going to vote for anyone today, it's CERTAINLY not going to be a wagon Shirou is pushing, it reeks of opportunism off of fua's solve proposal. If you think me + GL solves the game, then have some patience. You aren't the only one at the table with an opinion on the scumteam, and I am guaranteeing your survival tonight. You think we're scum? Then check us, and you have your solve. Or, when you see that I at least am unambigiously town, then can we proceed to yeet Shirou into the grand canyon?

But please, just end the day on no-elim, or at LEAST don't follow a wagon pushed by a consensus scumread on someone who is almost definitely not his partner. I am rapidly running out of patience for this game day. Scum are at a point where every single mis-elim is a big deal. Depriving them of that today also hurts them, even if it's not getting a scum out immediately.

[Cephrir]

I realize I should be decreeing whether we elim today or not but I legit dont know which is better.

And maybe the arguments about it will be telling later.

[Tejate Raichu]

Could you give us your take on the cop pool proposals so we're prepared to end the day properly at least?

[Cephrir]

Whatever the plan was before people started trying to change it last page was the only viable nolim plan I have seen.

[GuiltyLion]

also, I think no elimination is a grave mistake. And if you talk about how I had suggested no elimination yesterday, re:read my ISO because I already explained that before.

Uhhh

Please explain to me like I am a 5 year old how in your view it would have made sense to no elim yesterday prior to the redtea flip, or why you were trying to get everyone to agree to a no elim today, but now that redtea flipped scum, it's a "grave mistake"?

[Cephrir]

Shirou: GL/Meg
fua: implosion/Shirou/Tejate
implosion: morph/numberQ/Enchant

This one I think.

But perhaps I should just make them so we're not listening to a question mark.

[Tejate Raichu]

That I would find more agreeable than what Shirou is doing right now.

[GuiltyLion]

As implo had pointed out, I thought no elimination was mechanically kinda bad before, and still think this way, so I basically lied on that yesterday for said motives above, but I also thought no eliminating yesterday and doing redtea would be an easy way to survive until N3 at least, but still, I decided to do a bit of a song and dance that I was convinced by GL and vote for someone anyway.

This is the closest explanation I remember, and here you're just saying "mechanically kinda bad", not "grave mistake". So yeah, please explain how and why your opinion changed

[Cephrir]

I feel like shirou is just scum and we're doing mental gymnastics to explain why he isn't.

[Tejate Raichu]

I highly doubt GL is trying to find reasons to TR Shirou.

[GuiltyLion]

I have mainly been thinking it's best to play safely around the small chance he is actually town cop, because we have two other claimed N3 cops as well, but yeah there's not a single player I'd say is scummier than Shirou.

[GuiltyLion]

Like, the amount of times he's explicitly used WIFOM to justify his play or defend flipped scum, and said that he was gambling/lying in previous posts makes him always a slot that gets limmed prior to limlo

I still also believe that if he were really an N3 cop, scum should have killed him last night when it was known one N2 doc was dead and the other was leashed. Claiming on D2 was inherently risky and bad play, for no gain other than his survival during D3 today

[numberQ]

also, I think no elimination is a grave mistake. And if you talk about how I had suggested no elimination yesterday, re:read my ISO because I already explained that before.

Please explain why it's mistake, because i see it as not bad move (exactly not bad, of course killing maf is better). Like, we will need to skip anyway, unless other doc will save someone (which is fairly unlikely).

Because it doesn’t narrow down the PoE at all and just lets mafia get a kill. We can skip later after we narrow down the PoE and cops get their results. I just don’t think there are any positives to letting mafia kill whoever they want.

wtf is this logic? Why would we skip AFTER we've narrowed down the PoE? The entire point of narrowing it down is so we can lim with greater accuracy. "letting mafia kill whoever they want" - you do realize there are 2 scum left, so even if we hit one today there's going to be a NK attempt tonight? And it'll be "whoever they want"? This entire argument makes absolutely no sense to me.

Honestly at this point gunning for a lim just feels like a scum claim to me. The mafia are in a bad position right now and desperate to even the odds. I know I advocated for a Shirou lim earlier today, but it's very clear to me now that scum need an elimination today more than town does, and thus I can only see scum motivation behind pushing so hard for an elimination.

[GuiltyLion]

nQ, are you suggesting fua is scum? It's odd to me that you're expressing scrutiny at people pushing for a lim, but don't make any explicit comment about who looks worst from it. I would have thought Shirou being your main suspect opportunistically hopping onto my wagon would have received more of a direct call out

[morph the cat]

Morph let's go if you're town, put your vote back on GL?

Trying to think of a sentence that would make me less interested in putting our vote back right now.

Coming up empty.

[Tejate Raichu]

Morph let's go if you're town, put your vote back on GL?

Trying to think of a sentence that would make me less interested in putting our vote back right now.

Coming up empty.

This might be the towniest thing you've done all day.

[Tejate Raichu]

nQ, are you suggesting fua is scum? It's odd to me that you're expressing scrutiny at people pushing for a lim, but don't make any explicit comment about who looks worst from it. I would have thought Shirou being your main suspect opportunistically hopping onto my wagon would have received more of a direct call out

I know this wasn't directed at me, but the way I'm reading this is that fua is wrongtown and scum!Shirou is desperately trying to take advantage because he knows that every mis-elim counts at this point. nQ put it pretty succinctly: scum needs to elim far more than town does right now.