Open 842: Diffusion of Power [Postgame]

[catboi]

Vote Count 4.01

GuiltyLion (1):

fua

fua (1):

numberQ

Shirou (1):

Tejate Raichu

Not Voting (6):

Cephrir, GuiltyLion, morph the cat, MegAzumarill, Shirou, Enchant

With 9 alive, it's 5 to eliminate.

Deadline for Day 4 is February 18 at 10:00 AM EST.

Deadline Timer:

(expired on 2022-02-18 11:00:00)

[numberQ]

fua and Tejate being the only ones today to still be on the "let's lim Shirou" train from yesterday is really giving me confidence in my solve tbh. I don't think anyone else has been advocating for that, unless I missed something.

[Tejate Raichu]

So, I lit a fire under fua's ass for half the game, suspected redtea early, hard pushed redtea day 2 the moment it was even possible for me to do so in a situation where 1 scum man down early is a huge loss even if it's a dead slot? When I could have instead tried to push harder on implo, GL, Meg, which from your perspective are guaranteed town in this scenario?

And, on top of that, you also think that fua no-killed in the hopes that there was a night 1 doc? You think all of those things are true at the same time?

[Tejate Raichu]

And furthermore, what earthly reason do I have to not stay on the lim Shirou train? There was no inno. He still looks like scum, the actions of previous days are not erased. His posts today have not convinced me that he's not, either.

[Shirou]

Potentially miseliminating either me or NQ right now is actually...suboptimal now to be honest...and it actually saddens me that I must yet again defend myself for the day due to trying to give town the best chances to win...I know this is LAMIST but it's a true le sigh moment for me.

Why it's suboptimal? Because if you correctly nail the scum in NQ/Shirou, the other one eventually becomes conftown. You're potentially wasting an entire elimination for nothing if you get who is the likely scum in us wrong.

And well...*smirk*. If we're ever both town, it means Ceph/Meg is automatically town, and therefore, FUA MUST BE SCUM if the setup is 5:5.

HAHAHAHA

Oh my, there was no need for paranoia!

As long as the cop in Meg/Ceph checks one of me/NQ, we would eventually know with *certainty* if fua is scum or not I suppose.

[Shirou]

oh my...this game has becoming surely interesting all of a sudden

even if I'm dying today, I'll surely try to give you guys the best mech plan possible, so if I ever come to E-1 while away, please don't hammer me. Although it's kinda suboptimal, even if we were to miseliminate me there's probably stuff we could do now that I thought about it.

Mhm, I was correctly afraid for a reason of being scum in this setup. The mech solves really are a bit too strong. Even in the hypothetical scenario where fua is scum, they may end up being eliminated solely due to mechanics, which honestly...makes this setup unbalanced in my view.

[Shirou]

even if I'm dying today, I'll surely try to give you guys the best mech plan possible, so if I ever come to E-1 while away, please don't hammer me.

I mean don't hammer me before my last words or something please.

[GuiltyLion]

Let me make sure I have this right, I don't think it's quite clicking for me but Shirou/nQ both agreeing on it makes me feel there's something I am not grokking from the claimed cop PoV

redtea never claimed, so there are 12 possible claims

nQ and Shirou you are asserting that scum will always claim it to wind up 6:6, because otherwise if the claim distribution is 5:7 then they can be auto'd? I think that's the step I'm missing, why are we certain we can't wind up with a 5:7 claim breakdown here? isn't that the world where morph is outed (to me), assuming Enchant is scum?

I think I'm missing how from your PoV, 4 ~real~ cops and 6 ~real~ docs would mean an impossibility - why can't two of the (non-you) cops be lying?

[GuiltyLion]

sorry, assuming Enchant is town*

[Shirou]

And furthermore, what earthly reason do I have to not stay on the lim Shirou train? There was no inno. He still looks like scum, the actions of previous days are not erased. His posts today have not convinced me that he's not, either.

heh

kkkkk

Tejate can you like, please read my posts?

If my slot is scum I'm basically already on auto as long as we do what I said. I've already lost this game if scum from any possible angle, no matter if my potential partner would be NQ or not.

As long as we do the plan I said, the cops should auto resolve themselves. Whoever is scum in Shirou/NQ/Fua will be shown, no matter if there's only one or two.

I've a game where when I was confirmed to have mechanically lost, I simply gave up and admitted to being scum. I hate wasting time, and I'm not giving up here. If I'm scum and your pools are currently right this game is already over no matter what, if you're town, can't you try to show me a bit of good-faith and read my mech talk to understand why it's good to do a course of actions that also guarantees you get scum even if you're wrong on me/NQ?

[Shirou]

Let me make sure I have this right, I don't think it's quite clicking for me but Shirou/nQ both agreeing on it makes me feel there's something I am not grokking from the claimed cop PoV

redtea never claimed, so there are 12 possible claims

nQ and Shirou you are asserting that scum will always claim it to wind up 6:6, because otherwise if the claim distribution is 5:7 then they can be auto'd? I think that's the step I'm missing, why are we certain we can't wind up with a 5:7 claim breakdown here? isn't that the world where morph is outed (to me), assuming Enchant is scum?

I think I'm missing how from your PoV, 4 ~real~ cops and 6 ~real~ docs would mean an impossibility - why can't two of the (non-you) cops be lying?

I've the proper reply to this and redtea not having claimed doesn't matter GL. But I need to do something right now but I'll be back in a few minutes.

Just saying so you don't think I'm running away from replying this right now. Convincing people of what I'm saying is important here.

[numberQ]

So, I lit a fire under fua's ass for half the game, suspected redtea early, hard pushed redtea day 2 the moment it was even possible for me to do so in a situation where 1 scum man down early is a huge loss even if it's a dead slot? When I could have instead tried to push harder on implo, GL, Meg, which from your perspective are guaranteed town in this scenario?

And, on top of that, you also think that fua no-killed in the hopes that there was a night 1 doc? You think all of those things are true at the same time?

Meh. like I said, my read on you is purely by association at this point. If all those things you say you did are true, sure, there's a town spin to it. But I also don't really see any hard evidence that those interactions can't be S/S. fua is still alive and has been more or less hard cleared by most of the player list ever since their claim, so lighting a fire under their ass didn't really amount to anything, and was relatively low risk. Scum can, and by some schools of thought should, suspect their partners early on. And by day 2 any scum team could have easily seen redtea as a lost cause.

And yes, I do think fua no killed N1, but I don't think the entire gambit HAD to have a N1 doc. One of his buddies could have taken that up if AL hadn't claimed, and suddenly you have 2 conf!towns.

And furthermore, what earthly reason do I have to not stay on the lim Shirou train? There was no inno. He still looks like scum, the actions of previous days are not erased. His posts today have not convinced me that he's not, either.

Yeah, fair I guess. I don't have a specific reason that continuing to scumread Shirou is in itself scummy. I was more pointing out that you two were the only ones today that still wanted them limmed, which indicates some level of cohesion. And Shirou would be very, very easy mislim bait at this point considering they're literally saying it might be the right choice themselves.

[fua]

VOTE: NQ

[Tejate Raichu]

And furthermore, what earthly reason do I have to not stay on the lim Shirou train? There was no inno. He still looks like scum, the actions of previous days are not erased. His posts today have not convinced me that he's not, either.

heh

kkkkk

Tejate can you like, please read my posts?

If my slot is scum I'm basically already on auto as long as we do what I said. I've already lost this game if scum from any possible angle, no matter if my potential partner would be NQ or not.

As long as we do the plan I said, the cops should auto resolve themselves. Whoever is scum in Shirou/NQ/Fua will be shown, no matter if there's only one or two.

I've a game where when I was confirmed to have mechanically lost, I simply gave up and admitted to being scum. I hate wasting time, and I'm not giving up here. If I'm scum and your pools are currently right this game is already over no matter what, if you're town, can't you try to show me a bit of good-faith and read my mech talk to understand why it's good to do a course of actions that also guarantees you get scum even if you're wrong on me/NQ?

I did, and I'm fine with that elimination chain. The only real problem with it is GL/morph, but cops can take care of that I guess.

Actually, I'm not necessarily in favor of massclaim today. I'd rather any remaining town!cops remain unclaimed.

[numberQ]

Let me make sure I have this right, I don't think it's quite clicking for me but Shirou/nQ both agreeing on it makes me feel there's something I am not grokking from the claimed cop PoV

redtea never claimed, so there are 12 possible claims

nQ and Shirou you are asserting that scum will always claim it to wind up 6:6, because otherwise if the claim distribution is 5:7 then they can be auto'd? I think that's the step I'm missing, why are we certain we can't wind up with a 5:7 claim breakdown here? isn't that the world where morph is outed (to me), assuming Enchant is scum?

I think I'm missing how from your PoV, 4 ~real~ cops and 6 ~real~ docs would mean an impossibility - why can't two of the (non-you) cops be lying?

The 6:6 breakdown is regardless of how many real roles there are. Since scum know the actual composition, I don't really see any world where the purposefully suboptimize by claiming outside the 6:7 split. And with redtea having never claimed, that's now a 6:6. So really redtea not claiming was probably the best thing he could have done for his team.

If there are 4 real cops and 6 real docs, then yeah, 2 cop claims have to be lying. I don't think that's the case based on what my current solve theory is, but speaking generally, the only choice for scum fake claims is to give as little information to town as possible. If we DO end up with a 5:7 split or something, then I guess scum are just fine throwing /shrug

[MegAzumarill]

Not sure about claiming today I'll look the mech over

[fua]

I'm confused as to what issue you have with me outside of not being killed N1? Do you think I'm working from a position of TMI where I know everyone's roles? Are you aware that a scum buddy claiming to have healed me would out both of us down the line when cops get to checking and confirmed townies start getting killed?

[Cephrir]

fua and Tejate being the only ones today to still be on the "let's lim Shirou" train from yesterday is really giving me confidence in my solve tbh. I don't think anyone else has been advocating for that, unless I missed something.

I mean if you gave me a gun with one bullet right now things wouldn't be looking great for Shirou.

[Cephrir]

Potentially miseliminating either me or NQ right now is actually...suboptimal now to be honest...and it actually saddens me that I must yet again defend myself for the day due to trying to give town the best chances to win...I know this is LAMIST but it's a true le sigh moment for me.

Why it's suboptimal? Because if you correctly nail the scum in NQ/Shirou, the other one eventually becomes conftown. You're potentially wasting an entire elimination for nothing if you get who is the likely scum in us wrong.

And well...*smirk*. If we're ever both town, it means Ceph/Meg is automatically town, and therefore, FUA MUST BE SCUM if the setup is 5:5.

HAHAHAHA

Oh my, there was no need for paranoia!

As long as the cop in Meg/Ceph checks one of me/NQ, we would eventually know with *certainty* if fua is scum or not I suppose.

whiplash meter: 11/10

[Cephrir]

VOTE: NQ

i guess my thought is, who is his partner here such that he has to attempt this ridiculous play? they'd have to be locked out, right?

[numberQ]

I'm confused as to what issue you have with me outside of not being killed N1? Do you think I'm working from a position of TMI where I know everyone's roles? Are you aware that a scum buddy claiming to have healed me would out both of us down the line when cops get to checking and confirmed townies start getting killed?

I mean the part about a buddy claiming to heal you was pure speculation anyway, since it didn't actually happen N1. My issue with you began with your Tejate/GL solve at the end of D3, which made me reexamine the events of N1, and has continued into today.

[numberQ]

Not sure what makes this a ridiculous play tho

[fua]

VOTE: NQ

i guess my thought is, who is his partner here such that he has to attempt this ridiculous play? they'd have to be locked out, right?

I literally can't see a town motivation behind his line of thought at all. Zero attempt to actually scumhunt and instead basing an entire read off of WIFOM. Like. Is it impossible to believe that a doctor saved a cop claim?

[fua]

Also please use they/them when referring to me.

[morph the cat]

Morph, GuiltyLion MUST be scum for you.

I believe that you are well aware of my stance on GL.

I was arguably too vocal about it on day 3.