In post 15, Andante wrote:this rvs is wild!!! woooooo so exciting!! like, no one is really pushing 1 wagon, it's just "vote whoever" lol can rvs be over page 1 plz. I think Surye might be maf here, like, the 8th vote of the game, not on an existing wagon? ehhh
In post 16, Dwlee99 wrote:What is different between fireisredsir and surye in that regard?
In post 18, Andante wrote:mehhh fire’s is fine, called out something that also caught my eye. Surye’s though… suspicious tbh
when it takes 7 to lim 3 is nothing, putting people on e-2 or e-3 is where the pressure is, not really e-4
This page 1 exchange is kind of weird in that on reading Andante's
15 I would have assumed it was just standard RVS nonsense, but it seems like Dwlee took it seriously enough to question it and then Andante answered in a way that implies it actually was serious (at least a little bit)? Not sure what to make of that.
In post 27, HockeyFan wrote:Why do you want only pressure on 1 person to start the game? Doesnt make sense, a wagon shouldn't be formed on page 1 for the most part imo
Disagree but don't think the sentiment itself is scummy; I see it frequently enough from town. In general
27 looks a bit +town to me.
In post 36, fireisredsir wrote:i actually kinda agree with the hockey suspicion, i scoped out the starts of his games and the early buttering people up doesn't really feel like his town play, which is usually more fluffposting, banter, and discussing mechanics. i only see one scum game in his history but he acted closer to this. it's not an open so there's no mechanics to discuss here, but still, he feels like more of an outsider. and like he's forcing himself to make a meaningful post with commentary on the game even when not much has happened, so he can look more town and get people off his back. feels like he's doing it because he thinks he has to instead of because it's his honest thoughts.
VOTE: HockeyFan
Not crazy about this read, fluffposting is in general a way easier town meta for scum to emulate than actually contributing and I don't think a sample size of one scum game is a good basis for a meta read claiming the opposite.
In post 49, Andante wrote:Also I do feel a little bad for so much pressure on someone who is genuinely trying, so Hockey can be Hockey in peace for now
This makes no sense to me. If you think Hockey is scum then keep pushing him until he cracks, if you think he's town then don't say you "feel bad," say he's town. What even is this?
Kind of fluffy posting here; the only really alignment-relevant thing in the post is the "town vibes" on Andante.
In post 65, Nero Cain wrote:like
27 is legit scummy. I assume the reason that you feel sorry for him is b/c he's always wagoned but I don't think thats a good reason to stop wagoning him.
Agree with the sentiment even if I still don't get the Hockey wagon.
Stephen A. Smith coming in with an instant read list in
71 is a good look even if I don't know where it's coming from, early town pings.
In post 80, Stephen A Smith wrote:you said I replaced in and threw a random list at the thread on page three and this makes me scum
explain your train of thought
how do you get from random list to scumbag
Really like Stephen for town based on the attitude in this and followup posts. I'm not at all as convinced as he appears to be that Dwlee's responses make him definite scum but then I'm not sure if he really believes it either or is just taking that stance for the sake of the push.
In post 151, Dwlee99 wrote:Oh before I go
VOTE: Scorpius
I'm pretty sure he literally scum slipped by saying him and greeting should try to play into our fight
Read
142 and tell me what the hell that means other than my interpretation of it (but don't post it til Scorpius explains it himself)
If you actually want to vote scum go here, Stephen
Oh wait, Greeting is literally the name of a player in the game? I ignored that post because I thought he was just saying "Greetings"
I don't. Can you explain? Because I actually took this scumslip theory seriously until I saw you retract it.
In post 155, HockeyFan wrote:Where does the Greeting sus come from? Idt they've done anything AI(they have like 4 posts)
This seems to be answering its own question (inactivity is a good enough reason to have someone as suspect #4)
In post 156, Dwlee99 wrote: In post 155, HockeyFan wrote:maybe stephen town for continuing to persits 1 thing instead of just letting it go(cuz it doesn't benefit him as mafia to do this).
This depends on who Stephen's main is
...I guess, but this seems like trying to keep open the possibility Stephen is scum when it doesn't look likely that he is.
Are you planning to play the game? Only real contentful post is
44 and that's just picking on something easy to pick on.
In post 170, HockeyFan wrote: In post 160, fireisredsir wrote:stephen looks a lot worse off that than dwlee does to me. pushing a pointless point and acting like you caught someone in something? hmm. i can see a certain type of scum player doing that, whether because he really thinks he has a point (he doesn't, dwlee is right here) or because he knows that dumb extended fights like that a lot of times will make others skim and assume both are town
I need you to expand on this. Why would Steven do this as scum? He spent 2 pages trying to get an answer for a mostly "mild" sus from Dwlee. If stephen is mafia, he can really just ignore dwlee's read(or play it off), what is the benefit of doing what stephen did as scum there?
This is pretty much what I was thinking which makes me continue to like HockeyFan here.
In post 193, fireisredsir wrote: In post 170, HockeyFan wrote:I need you to expand on this. Why would Steven do this as scum? He spent 2 pages trying to get an answer for a mostly "mild" sus from Dwlee. If stephen is mafia, he can really just ignore dwlee's read(or play it off), what is the benefit of doing what stephen did as scum there?
there are people who just play aggressively. not everyone will just ignore attacks and play passive, some people as scum like to push back and out-pressure and just overwhelm whoever is arguing against them. i think it's actually MORE likely that he is scum because of it being a small mild point, because it means that he's forcing the argument where there totally doesn't have to be one. town probably wouldn't care because it's a minor point that should be obvious
the other benefit of that aggressive play is that you'll get people like this saying "why would mafia do that???" when it's actually super easy to do and more fun and works a lot of the time
Also like fireisredsir for town; I think it's easier for scum to just lean into the simple "Stephen is town because trying hard" read instead of trying to argue the other side.
In post 197, Nero Cain wrote:
Am I really the only one that finds this bad?
Stephan had a list of scumreads for ??? reason. DW was pissed b/c he was on it and it was unexplained. It's content. Deciphering wich alignment the content comes from can be tricky but just throwing your hands up and saying that it was meaningless is dumb
and scummy
This I can sort of agree with, except that in the same post HockeyFan says: "maybe stephen town for continuing to persits 1 thing instead of just letting it go(cuz it doesn't benefit him as mafia to do this)." And follows up by arguing Stephen is town. The line itself is kind of bad out of context I agree.
Too long to quote but this is a very uncharitable post. Criticizes wavemode for making one fluff post even though he immediately followed up with actual reads; criticizes those reads themselves because "'probably' and 'slightly' mean nothing"(???), conflates
gut read
and
random vote
, overall looks like nonsense to me. Wavemode's mostly dismissive response in
214 is exactly what it deserves.
On the other hand, this reaction is
abrupt
in a way that I don't expect to see from scum. If Scorpious were scum trying to shitpush wavemode I'd expect them to interpret
214 as scummy instead of instantly changing direction and saying they're town after all.
Okay, now I understand
142
Greeting's
228 and
229 are decent, gamesolvey posts that make me lean town there. In particular:
In post 229, Greeting wrote:I suppose this could be a cause for concern though:
I've played with
Dwlee99
in some games and I've found their playstyle to be generally quite nullish, and this game is no exception. Maybe but for that bizarre squabble with
Stephen A Smith
, but I don't see their participation in it as town-indicative either.
What makes you think that's a townslot?
is a good thing to be questioning. (HockeyFan's answer in
232 seems pretty satisfactory to me given he's not claiming hard conclusive townread)
In post 233, Scorpious wrote:Re: "The exchange"
I've been in DWlee's shoes recently. Stephen would argue the color of the sky with them. Every time a legit answer is run in a circle it gives someone a chance to misrep the original answer. I don't like what he's doing. The entire character(Stephen) and more likely than not the game opening, and maybe even the entire game is already being played as some sort of gambit. its all pre meditated. Not saying thats AI at all because obviously there is no way to know what they will roll,but I feel this character would have been installed regardless of green or red.
Dwlee really never did explicitly answer this question though, just responded with incredulity that any explicit answer was expected. Even if they thought the question was being asked in bad faith it should still be possible to give some kind of answer beyond "do I really need to explain this?" That fact seems really obvious to me in the exchange and it seems like people are ignoring it when they accuse Stephen of arguing in circles. Belaboring a point maybe, but that's different.
In post 249, HockeyFan wrote: In post 248, Scorpious wrote: In post 245, HockeyFan wrote:what about wave's
214 did u find town? Im not really sure how this post changes your read on them
I felt the answers were genuinely written. There was no defiance in any of it. My main reason for that line of question was to get more of a tone.and writing style. Not necessarily concrete information.
I like to look at things a little differently when I play. Of course there are the mechanics and rules and whatnot but so many people neglect other things like tone.
I also watch the games for changes in a writer’s punctuation. It can be a great tell, especially if it varies.
I(we) all have a solid baseline on how wave writes when they feel relaxed and not under a lot of pressure.
I agree they were genuinely written but how does saying stuff like "You're right" or "It doesnt" lean more towards town then it does mafia? that's the part I dont get. It's intresting to me that you TR that post based off the tone, cuz it didnt really tell me much, can u expand on this
It's hard to explain tone, but I tend to agree with Scorpious here. I think wavemode's response suggests he is really not afraid of being scumread. Responding to a claim that his posts aren't solving the game or saying all that much by freely admitting "no, they aren't" and just blowing off the suggestion that there is anything scummy about that.
