Infernal Affairs - Game Over!

[hellbooks]

Why are you already proposing day1/day 2 passes?? like, just read people, propose a lim, go from there... like you can BET I'll be pushing a SR, and if someone is towny, they're getting a "pass" but it's not like I'm announcing official passes..

VOTE: Tejate Raichu
I think I'm putting my vote here for a while, he's not getting away that easily, probably my strongest SR here right now.

IDK who morph the cat is but this actually rings slightly town to me. it seems like he picked up some cool new Scumhunting Idea from someone else in a game and is looking to try it out. maybe we're just picking up on different things about it. i can understand your other points on fabriacated read though

287, subtle shade without actually trying to engage my slot. I don't think asking for thoughts on other players is very unusual or particularly scummy, but the way it's phrased in this post just has some ineffable bad energy about it for me. It feels agenda driven rather than earnest.

it felt fine to me ㅠㅠㅠㅠ but maybe i just like being talked to ㅠㅠㅠㅠㅠㅠ
i'm interested in why frogsterking decides to create a magikhorse vanity wagon while also scumreading tejate when there are existing people wanting to wagon tejate who he could link up with. is it for maximum spice?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Official Vote Count

Tejate Raichu

(3): momo, Galron, Andante

Andante

(2): hellbooks, Tejate Raichu

Toogeloo

(2): Dwlee99, Cat Scratch Fever

Not_Mafia

(2): Not_Mafia, Nero Cain

The Keeper

(2): The Keeper, Save The Dragons

MagikHorse

(1): Frogsterking

Galron

(1): MagikHorse

Not Voting

(5): Toogeloo, Radical Rat, Scorpious, Frozen Angel, Firebringer

With 18 alive, it takes 10 to eliminate

Deadline

: (expired on 2022-03-03 20:00:00)

[MagikHorse]

Honestly, I don't like either side of that 1 for 1 between Tejate and Andante the longer I look at it. Too many assumptions, doesn't really seem much like either was reading the other well.

No, saving people for later in a large game is not that suspect. Feels like an overreaction at best.
No, I don't think Tejate was scumreading Andante for "not townreading him". That assumption is just plain bad.

Yes, I do think ducking away to "avoid lolhammers" was very weak and scummy reasoning. There were nowhere near enough votes for that concern from Tejate.
No, I don't think poking Hellbooks for information about Tejate is a bad thing. Feels like reading way too deep into nothing, and I buy Andante's response to that point.

Hard to say which looks worse.

How do I even look bad from that? I think it's terrible to go "X gets a d1 and d2 pass" LESS THAN 24 HOURS into the start of a game. especially a giant game. Like, sure ok say "I'll sort X later" but by saying you're giving X a pass, it's like, "I'm not even going to attempt to read you till later" which doesn't feel like pro town to me at all. I know we all have people we wait till later to sort, but I'll at least make an effort to read them. no one gets a full 2 game days pass... no one

Ignoring Innocent Child roles and other mechanical reasons (e.g. Night 0 cop checks) to confirm a town early, some people can be read really easily by the effort which they push the game from a standstill, or through meta reasoning. Tejate seems to believe that it's far more likely that my attempts to get the ball rolling are from town than scum (assuming I'm reading his posts correctly), and though he's hesitant to townbin me too early in fear of me just being a ridiculously strong scum with an amazing opening (A presumption here, but I have seen this sort of thing turn on people too when an early townread turns out to be more manipulative late) decided I wasn't worth looking into so early. Could be he simply thinks I look town enough for now that he doesn't want to spend his time looking deep into a fairly active poster he believes got a strong town start until there's more evidence? Sems the most likelt scenario in my eyes, seconded only by a scum pocketing attempt.

Mostly though it seems bad that you can't tell that it's a difference of opinion and keep pushing it like absolutely everyone has to play the exact same way, or that nobody can set a player aside so early. At best that's a bit self-centered, at worst it's attempting to undermine the early townleans on me and keep me closer to the lim pool.

It also ignores that Tejate later said that I had to at least maintain some of my current behavior to remain in this state, and that it wasn't going to exclude me from attention should I start to behave more strangely, which kind of leads me to believe that it really is just a fancy "I'll look at you later" line that's being taken far more strictly by you than them.

[Nero Cain]

VOTE: Tejate Raichu

[The Keeper]

And lets face it, you've hardly generated much content yourself, have you..?

nice deflect

that's irrelevant (and i'd argue untrue)

Your basis is my lack of content.
The same is true for you.

It's about as relevant as collecting consumables.

I don't have the means to deflect, and I'd hardly call returning your call out a deflection.

Its not my fault you decided to come at me armed with My Reflection.

[Save The Dragons]

wow you showed me i guiess

[Scorpious]

STD is STD..

Playstyle is 100% NIA.

[MagikHorse]

STD is STD..

Playstyle is 100% NIA.

What is AI from them then, if I take this as truth?

[Frogsterking]

BTW I've played against town!Andante in rapid games as both alignments and she has good intuition; her early reads are likely to outperform what we can expect based on random chance.

I've played against scum!MagikHorse once before in a newbie game and they fooled everyone.

[Scorpious]

STD is STD..

Playstyle is 100% NIA.

What is AI from them then, if I take this as truth?

With a slot like this? Their choices.. associatives, things of that nature.

[Frogsterking]

@hell 350

There are enough days left to move the execution onto MagikHorse. I think it's pessimistic to assume Magik is a vanity wagon.

I'm more afraid of scum!Magik running away with the game compared to scum!Tejate.

[Save The Dragons]

can you case magikhorse

[Frogsterking]

@Magik

349
Yes I've been working on a

huge

scum case on you!

[Frogsterking]

can you case magikhorse

Yes I have done a lot of the work already and I keep procrastinating because of my perfectionism.

[MagikHorse]

BTW I've played against town!Andante in rapid games as both alignments and she has good intuition; her early reads are likely to outperform what we can expect based on random chance.

I've played against scum!MagikHorse once before in a newbie game and they fooled everyone.

I've only had three scumgames on this site. One of them I got I'll and replaced out halfway through D1 after coming under fire. Another was a rapid game over the course of 2 hours or so where I was scum with Fire and was the second largest wagon. The third my mafia buddy got elimned D1 and I surrendered Day 2 because I was jailkept and mechanically screwed. The only game you can be talking about is the latter, and I don't have time to check that game out from work to refresh my memory.

Still, what about my play this game tells you that I'm a well playing scum instead of a well playing town? There has to be something that pings you, unless you're just fearmongering?

[Toogeloo]

Imagine wanting to eliminate someone because you are scared of their scum game...

[MagikHorse]

Imagine wanting to eliminate someone because you are scared of their scum game...

And with pre-flip associatives too. What's that all about?

[Frogsterking]

@Magik

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=83963

Newbie 2025

I had some moderate success in reading scum!Magik on D1 in this game Newbie 2025. Magik may have replaced out during Night 1 due to early pressure but scum!Magik was able to easily diffuse my push D1 and left their scum slot in a widely townread position going into D2. The replacement into Magik's scum slot proceeded to run away with the game.

[MagikHorse]

Okay? You've pointed to a game where you read me well once. What likens me in this game to that one beyond "playing well"?

Like, that's so far the only "evidence" you've pulled up on me, that I can play scum well. Why does that make me scum here?

[Scorpious]

This game is weird, it has like zero flow

[Galron]

This game is weird, it has like zero flow

Tag. You're it.

[Scorpious]

@Magik

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=83963

Newbie 2025

I had some moderate success in reading scum!Magik on D1 in this game Newbie 2025. Magik may have replaced out during Night 1 due to early pressure but scum!Magik was able to easily diffuse my push D1 and left their scum slot in a widely townread position going into D2. The replacement into Magik's scum slot proceeded to run away with the game.

I equate this to the numbers they show next to the roulette table, the odds are the exact same everytime rgardless of the previous spin.

I hate meta. I don't like meta arguments. I'm not reading you anyway because of this I just hate meta arguments.

[Scorpious]

at his point with so many players and such little content, nobody can read anyone with any certainty, I don't care who you are.

[Tejate Raichu]

<snippy snippy>

Ignoring Innocent Child roles and other mechanical reasons (e.g. Night 0 cop checks) to confirm a town early, some people can be read really easily by the effort which they push the game from a standstill, or through meta reasoning. Tejate seems to believe that it's far more likely that my attempts to get the ball rolling are from town than scum (assuming I'm reading his posts correctly), and though he's hesitant to townbin me too early in fear of me just being a ridiculously strong scum with an amazing opening (A presumption here, but I have seen this sort of thing turn on people too when an early townread turns out to be more manipulative late) decided I wasn't worth looking into so early. Could be he simply thinks I look town enough for now that he doesn't want to spend his time looking deep into a fairly active poster he believes got a strong town start until there's more evidence? Sems the most likelt scenario in my eyes, seconded only by a scum pocketing attempt.

<also snip>

It also ignores that Tejate later said that I had to at least maintain some of my current behavior to remain in this state, and that it wasn't going to exclude me from attention should I start to behave more strangely, which kind of leads me to believe that it really is just a fancy "I'll look at you later" line that's being taken far more strictly by you than them.

You and Fire both understand what I actually meant, yes.

STD is STD..

Playstyle is 100% NIA.

+1, this is pretty much exactly how I saw them post as town in my newbie. This is very much NAI for them from my perspective.

[Tejate Raichu]

Imagine wanting to eliminate someone because you are scared of their scum game...

I'm not particularly surprised by that, to be honest. Doesn't mean I'm really liking what Frog's pushing so far but it's a fairly common logical error I see people make in this sort of game. Especially when one player is significantly better than most players in a group, I've noticed people get more antsy to toss them directly into a nearby active volcano. Is it a good reason to want to kill Magik? No, not really. Is it something I have seen from town countless times? Yeah.