Mini 2265: Bears with Guns 2: Pandamonium game over

[MathBlade]

Greeting is there a reason you bold player’s names?

[Nero Cain]

Vote Count 2.1

Panda fact #13:A normal adult giant panda can produce more than 60 pounds of droppings in a 24-hour period.

And they say I'm full of shit...

[1]Greeting:

Malakittens

[1]Malakittens:

Greeting

[1]Dwlee99:

wavemode

Not Voting (8):

StrangeMatter, Toogeloo, Vanderscamp, MathBlade, Cat Scratch Fever, MegAzumarill, Dwlee99, JacksonVirgo

With 11 alive, it's 6 to eliminate.

Deadline for Day 1 is Wednesday, March 17th at 5:30ish pm CST.

Deadline Timer:

(expired on 2022-03-17 19:00:00)

[StrangeMatter]

I don't really agree that personal reasons are scum indicative ever or really is ever AI. Granted I still think this conversation reads to me as a TVT heavily biased tunneling each other.

[StrangeMatter]

This being theater is unlikely to be honest, so its either TVT (most likely here to me), or SVT, but definitely not SVS here.

[Greeting]

Greeting is there a reason you bold player’s names

I bold the names of players who are playing in that particular game. I also bold my own name in the rare case that I am referring to myself in the third person. If I refer to a player who isn't in the game (usually in the context of referring to another game) I don't bold their name. So no, this isn't some secret code in case you're wondering, it's just a way for me to organise my own posts.

As for the reason, I just like doing it and I feel like doing it.

Give me 24 hours and I will explain.
Just not right now.

I need to see one last thing develop/set in.

I really hope to see a convincing explanation from you in the next 12 hours.

[Greeting]

I don't really agree that personal reasons are scum indicative ever or really is ever AI. Granted I still think this conversation reads to me as a TVT heavily biased tunneling each other.

This being theater is unlikely to be honest, so its either TVT (most likely here to me), or SVT, but definitely not SVS here.

This is such a simplistic take.

Why do you think that I'm biased tunnelling

Malakittens

?

I can't speak for

Malakittens

, but why do you think that they're biased tunnelling me?

[StrangeMatter]

For you, Greeting, it's more intuition and gut from reading your posts (That I really don't agree with the logic but still seems townie but with the wrong reasons) that make me think this way, but for Malakittens it should be fairly obvious why I think they might be biased here and are tunneling you.

[MathBlade]

Greeting is there a reason you bold player’s names

I bold the names of players who are playing in that particular game. I also bold my own name in the rare case that I am referring to myself in the third person. If I refer to a player who isn't in the game (usually in the context of referring to another game) I don't bold their name. So no, this isn't some secret code in case you're wondering, it's just a way for me to organise my own posts.

As for the reason, I just like doing it and I feel like doing it.

Give me 24 hours and I will explain.
Just not right now.

I need to see one last thing develop/set in.

I really hope to see a convincing explanation from you in the next 12 hours.

You will.

I just doubt you’ll see a read from Jackson ever but I hope he proves me wrong.

[Greeting]

For you, Greeting, it's more intuition and gut from reading your posts (That I really don't agree with the logic but still seems townie but with the wrong reasons) that make me think this way, but for Malakittens it should be fairly obvious why I think they might be biased here and are tunneling you.

I was questioning the wording you used - namely "tunnelling". Because I don't see myself tunnelled over

Malakittens

. Am I sure if they are scum? No, I'm not. I do feel like I've judged the arguments for and against and the conclusion to which I got just points to

Malakittens

more likely being scum than not as indicated by their behavior. Also, I didn't get the feeling that they are tunnelled over me, but

Malakittens

would need to weigh in on this themselves.

My issue with this take is - it is just so easy to write off my lengthy argument against

Malakittens

and their past "suspicions" of me as two tunnelled townies and not delve into it deeper. That's how it certainly looks from a lazy viewpoint and hence why I asked you those questions.

[StrangeMatter]

For you, Greeting, it's more intuition and gut from reading your posts (That I really don't agree with the logic but still seems townie but with the wrong reasons) that make me think this way, but for Malakittens it should be fairly obvious why I think they might be biased here and are tunneling you.

I was questioning the wording you used - namely "tunnelling". Because I don't see myself tunnelled over

Malakittens

. Am I sure if they are scum? No, I'm not. I do feel like I've judged the arguments for and against and the conclusion to which I got just points to

Malakittens

more likely being scum than not as indicated by their behavior. Also, I didn't get the feeling that they are tunnelled over me, but

Malakittens

would need to weigh in on this themselves.

My issue with this take is - it is just so easy to write off my lengthy argument against

Malakittens

and their past "suspicions" of me as two tunnelled townies and not delve into it deeper. That's how it certainly looks from a lazy viewpoint and hence why I asked you those questions.

First of all, I already said there were parts of your argument that I don't agree with, and second, it's an observation that I see and added what I thought about it.
Which to me absolutely seemed like two townies who weren't going to look elsewhere for anything and continue to push each other for a good majority of the game.

[StrangeMatter]

Going to pull it up here hang on.

[StrangeMatter]

Ok you don’t know me greeting and I can promise you I don’t use mental health to toy with peoples feeling. I have lost s/o due to spiraling into depression. I have also lost friends and a job due to it as well.

So please let me know when you walk a week in my shoes and then tell me I shit on mental health when majorly of people in my field suffer mental health issues secondary to try to help others.

Either way im done with this conversation.

I'm sorry, you brought it up?

The moment you bring up your real life insecurities and issues they become part of the game. If you don't want people to use them against you then keep them to yourself. I'm not sorry for playing towards my winning goal, and in case you're wondering what it is, that's looking for liars and manipulators, which also includes emotional blackmailers.

Its more complicated than just keeping it to yourself. As keeping it to yourself can also lead to it being used against you

That's one interpretation of what happened. Another interpretation that I believe is that someone uses this as a pre-emptive argument to excuse themselves out of suspicion.

1. If someone speaks of their newfound confidence and then does stuff that contradicts this confidence, the most logical conclusion is that have been manufacturing content and lying. And, you know, when you claim that someone is 100% scum and then vote someone else to

supposedly

make a point that just doesn't prove one's confidence in my eyes.

It starts making sense from a scum point of view: miseliminating a townie and doing it paving the way for oneself to miseliminate another townie Day 2. The momo wagon was, in my opinion, a pressure wagon gone very wrong towards the end with the specific aim of targeting me for it later. Twilight of Day 1 was when my suspicion of Malakittens started to enhance when they got super erratic with their behavior and went on to hammer a townie (I know that it was MathBlade who did this, but Malakittens paved the way for him to do it).

Malakittens claims that they had their first suspicion on me far earlier than when the first vote was cast. While it isn't immediately clear when it was, the first post where they indicated some sort of displeasure with my content was 215. They present my case as an OMGUS vote which it isn't. While their case on me is obviously wrong, I did not suspect them for having doubts about my alignment, which were crumbed (but not glaringly obvious to me) up until 287. The case did have

some

merit in the fact that I did not post a lot of content for most of Day 1. I have certainly hinted why and that was because I thought the majority of Day 1 was uneventful and boring. People went after MathBlade most of the time, whom I was townreading at the time. Nothing else was happening, many players weren't posting at all. That's it.

What matters in this game is behavior and not one's character. I have made points relating to behavior and received a counterattack in which I have been blamed for attacking one's character with Malakittens providing very personal reasoning. That's inexcusable and, objectively speaking, scum indicative. In the context of a mafia game, I am actually reading this as a poor attempt to stop me from reading the slot. It's not even "oh my god, you suck for this post", but "how DARE you attack my mental health" (referencing both 349 and 359). Town wants to solve the game. Scum wants to manipulate town against solving the game. Emotionally blackmailing another player into not investigating a potential scum slip, giving a real-life based reasoning, is a very anti-town thing to do.

Playstyles vary, but scum interests are always the same. And Malakittens' behavior does not indicate a game-solving mindset.

And that is why, in my opinion, the kitty needs to go. Not because they had some issues. But because what they claim doesn't align with their behavior and when pressed about it they get aggressive and manipulative.

I don't agree that contradictions are inherently scum indicative from experience when in several games I've seen more often town flipping on their views (One of which was a game where I spectated a newbie game where you and Cape90 in that game seemingly to me did a 180 onto Dunnstral) to know entirely from experience it's more common that scum chooses to have smooth arguments and have some excuse to switch to something. Although I don't understand quite understand, and I want you to walk me through the thought process here, how does this correlate with being a contradiction of their confidence?

Not going to say much on the other main part here since it is manipulative if they aren't lying about that, which is true but nobody here can really say if it's true or not (and probably shouldn't be pursued further since I think their reaction can absolutely be genuine).

[StrangeMatter]

What I see as scum interests are often that from a checklist (though they won't always do everything on this list) they:

1. Fool town into believing they are town, or just don't get eliminated.
2. Make plays towards their win condition through any means necessary (such as setting town up to vote the wrong person).
3. Pretend to scumhunt (though entirely dependent on player skill to know who can pretend to do that or not).

And there are many more that I could list but I really don't want to because I think I'd be here all day listing every tiny play ever.

[MathBlade]

Anyone TR Jackson?

[Dwlee99]

Math are you claiming a guilty or something

[Vanderscamp]

I feel like I can just town bin Mala at this point tbh.

Please explain because I kinda wanna scum bin her

Sorry Mala

Kittens are cute but I am scared you’re scum

i'm sorry youre not vibing with me
but i'm town
you'll feel it soon tho

i sprout pretty rainbows

Good luck with getting me dead by endgame. Once I become transparently town it’s impossible for it to happen unless it’s done by scum.

I like mala's confidence in these posts

[Vanderscamp]

Mala and Math, why did you guys hammer momo yesterday without a claim?

To blame it on me, by creating a false narrative that I was a scum counterwagon to

momo

's town wagon. I don't believe that the circumstances surrounding voting out

momo

were a miscalculation.

Malakittens

knew what they were doing when they made 336. Their lies and fake confidence are shown in clear contradictions between 334 and 338. It's just making up stuff and strategy on the go, and the effect is detrimental to town as resulted by today's flip.

VOTE: Malakittens

MathBlade

should also explain himself.

I don't understand how you can receive the reaction from Mala that you did during eod and still come to the conclusion that their confidence is fake.

[MathBlade]

Math are you claiming a guilty or something

Do you think I am?

Do you have any reads?

[Vanderscamp]

I strongly dislike wavemode not giving any reasoning at all for that readlist

[Vanderscamp]

This being theater is unlikely to be honest, so its either TVT (most likely here to me), or SVT, but definitely not SVS here.

Strongly agree with not svs, I don't really buy what Greeting is saying about it though.

My take on the entire thing:
I liked Mala's obvious confidence and Greeting disliked it, I obviously don't agree with Greeting but I don't think it's unreasonable to disagree.
I'll actually somewhat rescind my read of liking it based on what Mala has said since, which is that the stuff I was reading them as town for could just be NAI and is purely based on OOG stuff.

Greeting then accused Mala of faking confidence and Mala reacted pretty strongly, I don't actually think Greeting was trying to bring mental health stuff into the game but Mala took it that way, there also looks like there's some history there.

This is all somewhat reasonable up until the point where Greeting gets that reaction and then takes the line of "from this reaction it looks as though I was right about you faking confidence," when I feel like even in the world where Mala was scum and the confidence was not actually town indicative, Mala was VERY obviously being genuine about not faking it.
That particular stance from Greeting seems extremely disingenuous.

[Dwlee99]

Math are you claiming a guilty or something

Do you think I am?

Do you have any reads?

Yea I do and yea I do.

[Vanderscamp]

Anyone TR Jackson?

No

[MathBlade]

Math are you claiming a guilty or something

Do you think I am?

Do you have any reads?

Yea I do and yea I do.

Which are?

[Dwlee99]

Well if you have a guilty on JV I scumread him that's for sure

[MathBlade]

Well if you have a guilty on JV I scumread him that's for sure

And if I don’t?

What about the rest of the game?