Mini 2265: Bears with Guns 2: Pandamonium game over

[Nero Cain]

Vote Count 2.2

Panda fact #14:It is believed that pandas roamed the earth as early as three million years ago..

[2]Toogeloo:

MathBlade, Dwlee99

[1]Greeting:

Malakittens

[1]Malakittens:

Greeting

[1]Dwlee99:

wavemode

Not Voting (6):

StrangeMatter, Toogeloo, Vanderscamp, Cat Scratch Fever, MegAzumarill, JacksonVirgo

With 11 alive, it's 6 to eliminate.

Deadline for Day 1 is Wednesday, March 17th at 5:30ish pm CST.

Deadline Timer:

(expired on 2022-03-17 19:00:00)

[Malakittens]

Hate to say it, but I’m glad if that role is real
That I didn’t get it. SM would automatically think it was a fake claim since the last time I rolled scum and played against SM it’s similar to what I claimed lmao (just not the vig part)

[Malakittens]

Tbh math I didn’t think Jv was claiming there. I thought he was just joking while replying to a joke that toog made.

Either way that post makes me think Math is town because I don’t think scum math would let pOtential-Pr-JV live.

[JacksonVirgo]

I really really wish JV would give reads.

It’s like painful.

Are you like purposefully being dense?

[JacksonVirgo]

I just doubt you’ll see a read from Jackson ever but I hope he proves me wrong.

What is even happenint lmao. I have said my reads from where I am up to. If u wanna get upset at me for not reading later do that dont make up bullshit that I didnt say my reads

[JacksonVirgo]

Anyone TR Jackson?

I don't think anything has pinged me about them so far. Is there a reason why you're hyper focused on them?

I would like this answered too owo

[JacksonVirgo]

I claim N1 Novice Vigilante-Doctor. :D

I am actually a vigilante doctor. Not quite a vig but same effect. Because I didn’t believe Jackson’s claim and thought he was rolefishing I poisoned him (which is a delayed vig) and he will die on a set night. No I won’t say which night. If scum want to save him they will have to make a case and I can stop the effect.

I am pretty much a Joat with (redacted), poisoner, unpoisoner.

The risk is minimal if Jackson truthtold as N1 and Novice are contradictory.

Because I was a Joat I figured it a safe enough risk considering I am a Joat.

So if anyone townreads Jackson now’s the time. I was giving him and everyone else every opportunity to see if he should live.

Because Jackson didn’t want momo elimmed I felt it’s a pretty good elim.

That being said Toog’s reaction was terrible

VOTE: Toog

It was a joke claim lmao. Do you not see that N1 Novice is redundant and Vig Doc is also redundant. Didnt think this was hard to understand

[JacksonVirgo]

math did a dumb revealing if I am dead anyway

[JacksonVirgo]

VOTE: Toog

This is the fifth vote on Toog. Bringing someone to L-2 on post 37 without so much as a comment (even just one saying that it's L-2) is not the best look.

You're right, sorry.

VOTE: Momo

This is E-5.

Momo and Roden is probably TvT.

Also damn I was right.

I really just think my early reads are spot on and it’s Toog + JV + 1

Incorrect except maybe Toog. Ur early reads were not spot on. U were 2 wrong once momo flipped yet ur ego is holding on super strong

[JacksonVirgo]

Also thx for giving me a reason to not catch up. I was getting kinda bored of doing it and kept procrastinating

[JacksonVirgo]

Dont heal me. I may or may not be PR but me living is always a bad idea at this point I am just elim bait

[MathBlade]

Tbh math I didn’t think Jv was claiming there. I thought he was just joking while replying to a joke that toog made.

Either way that post makes me think Math is town because I don’t think scum math would let pOtential-Pr-JV live.

Nah if I was scum I let JV live (assuming JV town) because N1 + Novice anything can never act

[MathBlade]

math did a dumb revealing if I am dead anyway

Not really
Me revealing and dying is protown
They can either shoot me which limits the PRs they can shoot
Or they can leave conf town (soon as you flip and there are two deaths)
Or they can gamble which night you’re supposed to flip and shoot you to avoid confirming me but then another Townie lives

There’s no good answer for scum and I like that

[StrangeMatter]

Hate to say it, but I’m glad if that role is real
That I didn’t get it. SM would automatically think it was a fake claim since the last time I rolled scum and played against SM it’s similar to what I claimed lmao (just not the vig part)

I'm trying to recall, what game are you talking about? I've had multiple games where people have roles that just don't make sense together, and some of which actually did exist together and it was townsided. Personally, with this claim, I don't feel like it makes sense to be fake though I'm far less certain I'm fine with leaving them alive for today even if it is just a fake.

[Greeting]

Spoiler: posts

Ok you don’t know me greeting and I can promise you I don’t use mental health to toy with peoples feeling. I have lost s/o due to spiraling into depression. I have also lost friends and a job due to it as well.

So please let me know when you walk a week in my shoes and then tell me I shit on mental health when majorly of people in my field suffer mental health issues secondary to try to help others.

Either way im done with this conversation.

I'm sorry, you brought it up?

The moment you bring up your real life insecurities and issues they become part of the game. If you don't want people to use them against you then keep them to yourself. I'm not sorry for playing towards my winning goal, and in case you're wondering what it is, that's looking for liars and manipulators, which also includes emotional blackmailers.

Its more complicated than just keeping it to yourself. As keeping it to yourself can also lead to it being used against you

That's one interpretation of what happened. Another interpretation that I believe is that someone uses this as a pre-emptive argument to excuse themselves out of suspicion.

1. If someone speaks of their newfound confidence and then does stuff that contradicts this confidence, the most logical conclusion is that have been manufacturing content and lying. And, you know, when you claim that someone is 100% scum and then vote someone else to

supposedly

make a point that just doesn't prove one's confidence in my eyes.

It starts making sense from a scum point of view: miseliminating a townie and doing it paving the way for oneself to miseliminate another townie Day 2. The momo wagon was, in my opinion, a pressure wagon gone very wrong towards the end with the specific aim of targeting me for it later. Twilight of Day 1 was when my suspicion of Malakittens started to enhance when they got super erratic with their behavior and went on to hammer a townie (I know that it was MathBlade who did this, but Malakittens paved the way for him to do it).

Malakittens claims that they had their first suspicion on me far earlier than when the first vote was cast. While it isn't immediately clear when it was, the first post where they indicated some sort of displeasure with my content was 215. They present my case as an OMGUS vote which it isn't. While their case on me is obviously wrong, I did not suspect them for having doubts about my alignment, which were crumbed (but not glaringly obvious to me) up until 287. The case did have

some

merit in the fact that I did not post a lot of content for most of Day 1. I have certainly hinted why and that was because I thought the majority of Day 1 was uneventful and boring. People went after MathBlade most of the time, whom I was townreading at the time. Nothing else was happening, many players weren't posting at all. That's it.

What matters in this game is behavior and not one's character. I have made points relating to behavior and received a counterattack in which I have been blamed for attacking one's character with Malakittens providing very personal reasoning. That's inexcusable and, objectively speaking, scum indicative. In the context of a mafia game, I am actually reading this as a poor attempt to stop me from reading the slot. It's not even "oh my god, you suck for this post", but "how DARE you attack my mental health" (referencing both 349 and 359). Town wants to solve the game. Scum wants to manipulate town against solving the game. Emotionally blackmailing another player into not investigating a potential scum slip, giving a real-life based reasoning, is a very anti-town thing to do.

Playstyles vary, but scum interests are always the same. And Malakittens' behavior does not indicate a game-solving mindset.

And that is why, in my opinion, the kitty needs to go. Not because they had some issues. But because what they claim doesn't align with their behavior and when pressed about it they get aggressive and manipulative.

I don't agree that contradictions are inherently scum indicative from experience when in several games I've seen more often town flipping on their views (One of which was a game where I spectated a newbie game where you and Cape90 in that game seemingly to me did a 180 onto Dunnstral) to know entirely from experience it's more common that scum chooses to have smooth arguments and have some excuse to switch to something. Although I don't understand quite understand, and I want you to walk me through the thought process here, how does this correlate with being a contradiction of their confidence?

Not going to say much on the other main part here since it is manipulative if they aren't lying about that, which is true but nobody here can really say if it's true or not (and probably shouldn't be pursued further since I think their reaction can absolutely be genuine).

I dropped the use of usernames for the purpose of this post only to make it simpler.

The way x posted made me believe that they're very certain that y is scum. If x says that y is almost certainly scum, then why would they switch to a second wagon, which was a pressure wagon and not focus on drumming up players to eliminate y instead? If x sees y as scum and x is town then it is most reasonable for to x believe that by voting to eliminate y they are acting in the interest of town. And not instead just jump on someone else.

Miseliminating any townie is objectively anti-town play. However, it happens in every game and I don't know a single player who has never voted out a townie while being town themselves. It happens not because every single townie who miseliminates scum wants their team to fail, but because they

think

that person was scum. So in their minds they see it as pro-town play. As for x, my opinion is that it's anti-town play in both objective and most importantly, subjective way. If someone acts in a way that doesn't align with their stated beliefs and their actions result in the worsening of town's chances to win the game then it is perfectly reasonable to assume that the viewpoint could really be coming from scum.

Of course, there is a town explanation for this and it's that it's just they had bad reads and a bad impulse which led to a bad fuckup. But I see this as possibly coming from a scum point of view and hence why my vote is where it is.

[Greeting]

Mala and Math, why did you guys hammer momo yesterday without a claim?

To blame it on me, by creating a false narrative that I was a scum counterwagon to

momo

's town wagon. I don't believe that the circumstances surrounding voting out

momo

were a miscalculation.

Malakittens

knew what they were doing when they made 336. Their lies and fake confidence are shown in clear contradictions between 334 and 338. It's just making up stuff and strategy on the go, and the effect is detrimental to town as resulted by today's flip.

VOTE: Malakittens

MathBlade

should also explain himself.

I don't understand how you can receive the reaction from Mala that you did during eod and still come to the conclusion that their confidence is fake.

I have explained this in great detail to the point where I don't think there is anything more to add. As for that reaction itself, read up 396.

[MathBlade]

Greeting / Mala
Who do you think is scum with the other person?

[StrangeMatter]

I dropped the use of usernames for the purpose of this post only to make it simpler.

The way x posted made me believe that they're very certain that y is scum. If x says that y is almost certainly scum, then why would they switch to a second wagon, which was a pressure wagon and not focus on drumming up players to eliminate y instead? If x sees y as scum and x is town then it is most reasonable for to x believe that by voting to eliminate y they are acting in the interest of town. And not instead just jump on someone else.

Miseliminating any townie is objectively anti-town play. However, it happens in every game and I don't know a single player who has never voted out a townie while being town themselves. It happens not because every single townie who miseliminates scum wants their team to fail, but because they

think

that person was scum. So in their minds they see it as pro-town play. As for x, my opinion is that it's anti-town play in both objective and most importantly, subjective way. If someone acts in a way that doesn't align with their stated beliefs and their actions result in the worsening of town's chances to win the game then it is perfectly reasonable to assume that the viewpoint could really be coming from scum.

Of course, there is a town explanation for this and it's that it's just they had bad reads and a bad impulse which led to a bad fuckup. But I see this as possibly coming from a scum point of view and hence why my vote is where it is.

Alright, that makes sense. However what sticks out to me and something I noted throughout all this is...I noted from looking through ISO as well is that you really didn't poke or prod into that much, just kind of accused. Which is odd in a scummy way (but I still think both of you are town) that just jumped onto something you find scummy for it.

[Greeting]

mala's probably town for those posts tbh. I feel like scum wouldn't do an awkward vote like that, because the optics are really bad.

I've heard this before.

Scum wouldn't do that because it's too obvious.

Guess what happened? They did it and then used the very same thing as an excuse into misleading town to think otherwise.

Playstyles vary, but scums always have the same goal and that's it's the goal of each post that, in my opinion, takes precedence over playstyle.

Does this post come from someone who wants to solve the game in their own way or from someone who has something different on their mind?

It's true that not every post needs to have a goal. I've made posts before as town (I have never rolled scum on MafiaScum actually) and had nothing in mind. I have made posts which were pretty much prod dodges which brought up nothing in value to the game. There were games where I just waited for Day 1 to end, because I felt like there was not enough information to make a good choice. So I know that not every single post in the game needs to have a gamesolving mindset.

But these posts most definitely had a goal and the goal was anti-town.

[StrangeMatter]

I dropped the use of usernames for the purpose of this post only to make it simpler.

The way x posted made me believe that they're very certain that y is scum. If x says that y is almost certainly scum, then why would they switch to a second wagon, which was a pressure wagon and not focus on drumming up players to eliminate y instead? If x sees y as scum and x is town then it is most reasonable for to x believe that by voting to eliminate y they are acting in the interest of town. And not instead just jump on someone else.

Miseliminating any townie is objectively anti-town play. However, it happens in every game and I don't know a single player who has never voted out a townie while being town themselves. It happens not because every single townie who miseliminates scum wants their team to fail, but because they

think

that person was scum. So in their minds they see it as pro-town play. As for x, my opinion is that it's anti-town play in both objective and most importantly, subjective way. If someone acts in a way that doesn't align with their stated beliefs and their actions result in the worsening of town's chances to win the game then it is perfectly reasonable to assume that the viewpoint could really be coming from scum.

Of course, there is a town explanation for this and it's that it's just they had bad reads and a bad impulse which led to a bad fuckup. But I see this as possibly coming from a scum point of view and hence why my vote is where it is.

Alright, that makes sense. However what sticks out to me and something I noted throughout all this is...I noted from looking through ISO as well is that you really didn't poke or prod into that much, just kind of accused. Which is odd in a scummy way (but I still think both of you are town) that just jumped onto something you find scummy for it.

And what I mean is odd about it is that you didn't really prod around Malakittens with your read, which to me indicates at the minimum a fairly strong reason to point if you are right or not about solving a person's alignment.

[Greeting]

I claim N1 Novice Vigilante-Doctor.

I am actually a vigilante doctor. Not quite a vig but same effect. Because I didn’t believe Jackson’s claim and thought he was rolefishing I poisoned him (which is a delayed vig) and he will die on a set night. No I won’t say which night. If scum want to save him they will have to make a case and I can stop the effect.

I am pretty much a Joat with (redacted), poisoner, unpoisoner.

The risk is minimal if Jackson truthtold as N1 and Novice are contradictory.

Because I was a Joat I figured it a safe enough risk considering I am a Joat.

So if anyone townreads Jackson now’s the time. I was giving him and everyone else every opportunity to see if he should live.

Because Jackson didn’t want momo elimmed I felt it’s a pretty good elim.

That being said Toog’s reaction was terrible

VOTE: Toog

What is your flavor Mr JOAT?

Veterarian

I crumbed it with thinks like stethoscope:)

Your claim sounds believable. As for

JacksonVirgo

, I'll need to look into that slot, because my focus in this game has been completely elsewhere.

VOTE: Toog
Veterinarian that poisons. I wonder if your license should be revoked lmao

Veterinarians also euthanise pets. It's kinda cheeky to call them poison doctors, but it's totally something I would expect from Nero Cain (no shade, that's pretty cool actually!).

[Greeting]

MathBlade

,

StrangeMatter

, I saw your posts and I will reply later.

[JacksonVirgo]

Your claim sounds believable. As for JacksonVirgo, I'll need to look into that slot, because my focus in this game has been completely elsewhere.

Dont bother I am dying tonight owo

[JacksonVirgo]

Might as well claim. VT but that isnt surprising owo. Kill me daddy uwu

[StrangeMatter]

VOTE: MegAzumarill

Need you, CSF, and wavemode to start talking and being a part of the discussion since I know people were waiting on what Mathblade did and haven't really said much. Do you have any thoughts? Anything you think worth noting that you might want to bring up?