Mini 2265: Bears with Guns 2: Pandamonium game over

[Cat Scratch Fever]

You’re reading, whether deliberately or not, scum motivation where there are none.

I sheep votes all the time to build wagons. I’ll pull quotes later, but I feel like this shouldn’t be hard to grasp.

Scumreads do not need to be original or unique; I don’t understand why you think not having scumreads of my own is scummy.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

you’re accusing me of having no scumreads when that isn’t the case.

You don't. You have scum-leans on Greeting and dwlee as per 495. If you had a scum-read on either you wouldn't be as hesitant as you are. Either that or your read on them is so fake that you are afraid to put yourself out there.

1. You’re nitpicking at semantics

2. You can absolutely have a scumlean and not be confident

[StrangeMatter]

VOTE: Cat scratch nah this is scum. Voting a LHF, has no reads and then puts a retraction/safety net notice when they voted so they can get oit of a town flip easier.

I still dont like Greeting but I thini thats just their personality

Have no reads? That’s just straight up untrue. It’s true that I have no confident reads, but I think anyone who does at this point in the game is just very confident by nature or lying.

Going to put my two cents but I just get the feeling you made up those reads on the spot I don't really have any evidence to describe why just from my gut just that's what I felt from reading that list.

[JacksonVirgo]

You’re reading, whether deliberately or not, scum motivation where there are none.

I sheep votes all the time to build wagons. I’ll pull quotes later, but I feel like this shouldn’t be hard to grasp.

Scumreads do not need to be original or unique; I don’t understand why you think not having scumreads of my own is scummy.

Your claim of it being not scum motivated is useless, I am reading you as scum. If I knew it had no scum motivation, or your word meant anything about that I wouldn't have this read and the game of mafia as a whole would be useless.

I am not saying your scum-reads aren't original or unique nor am I saying not having scum-reads of your own is scummy. I am saying you don't have a

single

scum-read at all, the most you have is a scum-lean and if you say you do you are lying. You are also using Mala as a shield whether you are knowing or not, and I think you are scum for it.

[JacksonVirgo]

you’re accusing me of having no scumreads when that isn’t the case.

You don't. You have scum-leans on Greeting and dwlee as per 495. If you had a scum-read on either you wouldn't be as hesitant as you are. Either that or your read on them is so fake that you are afraid to put yourself out there.

1. You’re nitpicking at semantics

2. You can absolutely have a scumlean and not be confident

1. How so? Describe

in detail

2. Not when it's a scum-tell to have town-reads and no scum-reads. Scum having no scum-reads is MUCH more likely than a town not having any.

[StrangeMatter]

VOTE: Cat scratch nah this is scum. Voting a LHF, has no reads and then puts a retraction/safety net notice when they voted so they can get oit of a town flip easier.

I still dont like Greeting but I thini thats just their personality

Have no reads? That’s just straight up untrue. It’s true that I have no confident reads, but I think anyone who does at this point in the game is just very confident by nature or lying.

Going to put my two cents but I just get the feeling you made up those reads on the spot I don't really have any evidence to describe why just from my gut just that's what I felt from reading that list.

Scratch that, I'm thinking of the wrong person, but it was someone's reads that just kind of felt like that in my experience that you just kind of make quickly on the dime.

[JacksonVirgo]

VOTE: Cat scratch nah this is scum. Voting a LHF, has no reads and then puts a retraction/safety net notice when they voted so they can get oit of a town flip easier.

I still dont like Greeting but I thini thats just their personality

Have no reads? That’s just straight up untrue. It’s true that I have no confident reads, but I think anyone who does at this point in the game is just very confident by nature or lying.

Going to put my two cents but I just get the feeling you made up those reads on the spot I don't really have any evidence to describe why just from my gut just that's what I felt from reading that list.

Scratch that, I'm thinking of the wrong person, but it was someone's reads that just kind of felt like that in my experience that you just kind of make quickly on the dime.

Who's reads make you think that, I am curious and want to see for myself.

[StrangeMatter]

I'm horrible at remembering important details (don't ask me why I'm not sure how either) but it was probably was Cat Scratch Fever.

[JacksonVirgo]

I'm horrible at remembering important details (don't ask me why I'm not sure how either) but it was probably was Cat Scratch Fever.

These were their most recent posts about read-lists. Was it these?

Spoiler:

I'm in the middle of typing up a readslist, but I'm feeling kind of silly for doing so because everything is basically null, and trying to read beyond that is basically like drawing water from a stone.

oh well I'll post it anyway, since this game is so quiet.

Dwlee - scumreads toog and that's kind of it --->

nullscum

Greeting - they seem to be pushing people for doing weird/bizarre things that are anti-town while ignoring the town things about them --->

nullscum

JacksonVirgo - no idea. feels like he's given up but also feels like he doesn't care about dying. could be scum bravado but idk --->

null

Malakittens - already talked about a bit earlier but also I think their reaction to being pushed reads as genuinely tilted rather than trying to emotionally manipulate --->

townlean

Math - I believe their claim, and I also kind of don't think they would claim so early as scum --->

town

MegA - Kind of want to say town just based on 277 --->

nulltown

Strange - it's funny he called out me and some others for not contributing much to the game from given his ISO also doesn't have much AI in it, but that hypocrisy isn't necessarily scum indicative --->

null

Toog - some people here want a Toog lim and I don't really have any reason to argue against it, but I also don't have confidence this will flip scum. I feel like town Toog can be kind of low effort and limbaity. --

null

Vanders - we seem to be agreeing on Mala and Greeting, which normally wouldn't sway me much in one direction or another, but I need reads that are not null so I'll bump them up a bit. 446 is annoying logic but probably NAI given the 2012 join date. interested in why dwlee is town though. -->

nulltown

wavemode - interested in why they think Toog and Greeting are town but otherwise not a whole lot else here --->

null

Basically this-

Town

Math
Mala
MegA, Vander
Jackson, Strange, Toog, wave -- the idk tier
dwlee, Greeting

Scum

[StrangeMatter]

Probably. Though I keep getting the feeling I'm not actually talking about the right person here (though some parts of that just feel hastily made up to me too).

[JacksonVirgo]

Probably. Though I keep getting the feeling I'm not actually talking about the right person here (though some parts of that just feel hastily made up to me too).

Alright, what parts of that feel hastily made up?

[StrangeMatter]

Well, it's mostly the scumleans they have which I find are odd reasons that just gives the impression of "I need to have scumleans in my reads list." over thinking, "These people are leaning towards being scum to me." is a really odd and their reasons don't feel very fleshed out to say how they could be scummy or be an actual read.

[StrangeMatter]

Well, it's mostly the scumleans they have which I find are odd reasons that just gives the impression of "I need to have scumleans in my reads list." over thinking, "These people are leaning towards being scum to me." is really odd and their reasons don't feel very fleshed out to say how they could be scummy or be an actual read.

EBWOP.

[MegAzumarill]

Today feels like a whole lot of nothing.
Bunch of back and forth accomplishing nothing.
VOTE: CSF Condense some votes here

[MegAzumarill]

Reads as scum caught for poor reasons to me

[JacksonVirgo]

Well, it's mostly the scumleans they have which I find are odd reasons that just gives the impression of "I need to have scumleans in my reads list." over thinking, "These people are leaning towards being scum to me." is really odd and their reasons don't feel very fleshed out to say how they could be scummy or be an actual read.

EBWOP.

Adding my own thoughts on this would be useless as you all know my stance on them.

[JacksonVirgo]

Reads as scum caught for poor reasons to me

Scum caught is still scum caught. No way to know for sure unless a flip happens.

[Greeting]

Toog feels radically different from here
viewtopic.php?t=88618&f=23&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

I can't tell the difference.

Toogeloo

feels null to me.

Plus he's apparently scumreading

Cat Scratch Fever

whom I'm also slightly scumreading so that's a plus for him.

Jackson and Toog are on CSF so CSF is town to me

Now that

MegAzumarill

is on it too, I can safely say that I don’t like the composition of

Cat Scratch Fever

’s wagon even if I was soft scumreading her myself. This makes me question my judgement. Her last posts have been towny too.

I have a strong feeling that at least one of these three is scum. When this game is over I’ll check back to see if this feeling was correct.

But I don’t necessarily feel like voting out

Toogeloo

either.

Can we just yeet out

Malakittens

? I think this is where my vote still belongs as of now.

[Greeting]

Oh, and I will be in V/LA until at least Sunday evening, to possibly Monday evening but not longer than that.

[Toogeloo]

I town read MegA from Day 1. JV is towning it up today. I know I'm town.

Wagon seems fine to me.

[Vanderscamp]

I was thinking of Vanderscamp and wavemode.
Both reek of scum utilizing the momentum, but wavemodes seems less likely to come from town VOTE: Wavemode

I think I was the first person to call out momo, not that that's a good thing

[MegAzumarill]

Vote positioning is what I looked at.
In my experience vote positioning for certain kinds of wagons are accurate

[Vanderscamp]

Basically this-

Town

Math
Mala
MegA, Vander
Jackson, Strange, Toog, wave -- the idk tier
dwlee, Greeting

Scum

Having no scum reads at this point in the game is suspect

I thought the same thing too, pretty sure the scum at the bottom was to indicate the ranking

[Vanderscamp]

I strongly dislike wavemode not giving any reasoning at all for that readlist

I dislike the number of reads that wave gave. If it had been a small number or like a single unexplained read on someone I don't think I would have minded that much, but I disliked a comprehensive list that came with nothing else.
It felt like there was a disconnect between a list that implies a strong awareness of what's happening in the game, versus a level of involvement/explanation that implies little or no awareness.

huh. really? the number of them?

if you'd said something like "I don't like the lack of transparency" I'd think, well ok I can see what you're saying, it's just a bad read

but the number? lol so just for my reference, in the future if I'm writing a reads post with no justifications added, what quantity of names is your limit? 6, 7? but 8+ names then the post is bad? where's the cutoff lol. this logic is weird

in any case, you've probably never played with me but I always drop a full list at some point, usually pretty early on. it's just how I play. even if on the surface you think I have "little to no awareness" of what's happening (in fact I often feel like I'm the only person actually reading the damn game...)

If you always drop a full list then my read doesn't mean as much.

It is a lack of transparency that I didn't like, more specifically evidence of thought process, but the fact that it was a full list and not one or two reads made me dislike it more.

[Vanderscamp]

I town read MegA from Day 1. JV is towning it up today. I know I'm town.

Wagon seems fine to me.

How are you TRing MegA?
Their recent contributions have been terrible