Open 847 - Trust Fall [Game Over]

[the worst]

shorter

i'm a lil wary that greeting isn't able to comment on anything but setup strategy but not really sure that's a scumtell in trust fall

[Meuh]

also fwiw

pav + meuh's early interactions are weird

meaningless ones with a bit of playful teehee bite but after that

poof

Pav just hasn't said anything that stuck out to me as warranting a reply. Early on he was mostly making joke posts and general statements about the game + its mechanics which is fine on say page 4, but not really by now
468 and 475 are the most Pav actually expresses reads and

I do wish he'd post more

I don't really think it's a good idea to pair him up for the time being at least

*meant to say post more reads/positions on the game, not post more generally; his activity is fine

[Enchant]

why town!bugspray?

kind of simply, i don't think they're approaching this game the way they would as scum

would you want to be paired today?

eeehhhhh i like 31.7% want to be paired today

if not i assume you would simply want an existing trust offer to be accepted and no others to be made yeah?

haven't decided yet. i'd be fine with 2 of my townreads leaving together too. or really whatever people want, it's a game with incredibly high individual slot agency and i'm along for the ride.

Why 31.7% and not 2000%

[chavela]

meuh the most likely non-me town right now

ooh i'm keen for your read here


viewtopic.php?f=51&t=89054&start=375
i know this is a bit tepid but the innate disconnect between hem/chavela here comes from t/t long before anything else, i don't think scum!hem is incentivised to play this rough and it kinda just pings sincere + a weird way to approach chavela anti-charismatically

kind of glazing over a lot of stuff

humaneatingmonkey and i had a very similar interaction previously when humaneatingmonkey was mafia will find it

here it is:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=86693&start=675

has almost the same path of

thought you were town but then you did this > engages interaction to then say and now this also!

and in my previous interactions with town!humaneatingmonkey it has generally felt more head on

and much less like trying to drag me into quicksand

[the worst]

why town!bugspray?

kind of simply, i don't think they're approaching this game the way they would as scum

would you want to be paired today?

eeehhhhh i like 31.7% want to be paired today

if not i assume you would simply want an existing trust offer to be accepted and no others to be made yeah?

haven't decided yet. i'd be fine with 2 of my townreads leaving together too. or really whatever people want, it's a game with incredibly high individual slot agency and i'm along for the ride.

Why 31.7% and not 2000%

i think the answer to that question is a lot less exciting than you'd expect.

any questions about anything else?

[Enchant]

Are this have refering to "i want to stay and help making pairs"?

[chavela]

meuh the most likely non-me town right now

ooh i'm keen for your read here


viewtopic.php?f=51&t=89054&start=375
i know this is a bit tepid but the innate disconnect between hem/chavela here comes from t/t long before anything else, i don't think scum!hem is incentivised to play this rough and it kinda just pings sincere + a weird way to approach chavela anti-charismatically

kind of glazing over a lot of stuff

humaneatingmonkey and i had a very similar interaction previously when humaneatingmonkey was mafia will find it

here it is:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=86693&start=675

has almost the same path of

thought you were town but then you did this > engages interaction to then say and now this also!

and in my previous interactions with town!humaneatingmonkey it has generally felt more head on

and much less like trying to drag me into quicksand

can skip the posts that aren’t me(shiki)/humaneatingmonkey as the interaction goes on for a few pages just wanted to show more from the beginning

also probably noteworthy that in that game humaneatingmonkey took an initial approach of like ‘shiki is a useful town’ towards me almost like opposed to the ‘chavela is a strong mafia watch out’ of this one but a comparable stance in the way both felt pre-weighted

[Meuh]

the way it feels like everyone is more or less synching up with like

who is scummy

feels good

the less my brain has to work the better

Do you think everyone's views lining up is good in this game? Or is it good specifically in this case since you're a part of this consensus? Or is it good legitimately just because your brain has to work less? What exactly is the sentiment behind this? I'm curious

[Kuriyama]

hm

who do

ydrasse and kuriyama

think are the very most likely non-me non-them towns right now

and why i guess

mmm

enchant
hem
bugs?
norw?
ydrasse?

i mean,

if you really feel this way then advocating for humaneatingmonkey to accept enchant’s trust offer and for no other trusts to be offered today makes the most sense yeah? though i do not really understand why you think enchant is particularly towny? like sure one can easily say enchant would make that trust offer as town potentially but enchant would definitely make that trust offer as mafia and since doing so enchant has simply expressed displeasure with proceedings

like i am not hard scumreading enchant

but i would definitely advocate against anyone else offering a trust to enchant - like if anyone really strongly believes that enchant is town then they should probably want humaneatingmonkey to accept enchant’s offer

though i still have various worries about monkey i think monkey accepting enchant’s proposal is preferable to anyone else proposing to enchant

I am not going to make anyone trust anyone else because I can always be wrong

I am transparent about who I townread and if any of them want to trust each other I am happy with that.

If any of them want to trust outside my list, I am not going to be upset or anything? Everyone has their own opinions.

[Kuriyama]

and if there’s reason for townreading humaneatingmonkey beyond ‘hasn’t accepted trust offer’ i guess i am interested in that as well

I think the way he is intransigent towards you felt kind of townie to me

[Kuriyama]

like it’s probably slightly +scum for enchant in and of itself that none of the players saying ‘enchant is town!!’ have acted on ‘maybe i will propose’

because town!enchant would probably be perceived by mafia as more likely to accept mafia proposal

which is part of why everyone saying ‘enchant town’ should probably be looked further into also

getting messy thinking about this

this isn't necesarily true because hem can always accept enchant in response to a mafia proposing to enchant.

[Kuriyama]

hi!!

hi !!!!

[Kuriyama]

the way it feels like everyone is more or less synching up with like

who is scummy

feels good

or we r all wrong : )

[Enchant]

like it’s probably slightly +scum for enchant in and of itself that none of the players saying ‘enchant is town!!’ have acted on ‘maybe i will propose’

because town!enchant would probably be perceived by mafia as more likely to accept mafia proposal

which is part of why everyone saying ‘enchant town’ should probably be looked further into also

getting messy thinking about this

this isn't necesarily true because hem can always accept enchant in response to a mafia proposing to enchant.

Duh you said like i accept mafia instantly and i need someone to watch for me.

I have basic decency too.

[Ydrasse]

the way it feels like everyone is more or less synching up with like

who is scummy

feels good

the less my brain has to work the better

Do you think everyone's views lining up is good in this game? Or is it good specifically in this case since you're a part of this consensus? Or is it good legitimately just because your brain has to work less? What exactly is the sentiment behind this? I'm curious

it's good because it means that it's a bit more likely to be right from experience because everyone's nodding in the same direction and it's good because i don't have to worry about the mental load of going against the grain and it's good because that means i'm riding the wave

[Ydrasse]

the way it feels like everyone is more or less synching up with like

who is scummy

feels good

or we r all wrong : )

well........................... one way to find out................................

[Meuh]

and if there’s reason for townreading humaneatingmonkey beyond ‘hasn’t accepted trust offer’ i guess i am interested in that as well

I think the way he is intransigent towards you felt kind of townie to me

Here's a great post from the game Chav linked

I remind you that standoffish is not the opposite of mafia indicative.

[Ydrasse]

i almost offered a trust there to be silly. a little funny

i also think if kuri is scum they could probably do some damage!

[the worst]

meuh the most likely non-me town right now

ooh i'm keen for your read here


viewtopic.php?f=51&t=89054&start=375
i know this is a bit tepid but the innate disconnect between hem/chavela here comes from t/t long before anything else, i don't think scum!hem is incentivised to play this rough and it kinda just pings sincere + a weird way to approach chavela anti-charismatically

kind of glazing over a lot of stuff

humaneatingmonkey and i had a very similar interaction previously when humaneatingmonkey was mafia will find it

here it is:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=86693&start=675

has almost the same path of

thought you were town but then you did this > engages interaction to then say and now this also!

and in my previous interactions with town!humaneatingmonkey it has generally felt more head on

and much less like trying to drag me into quicksand

i can see where the alarm bells come from. i'm wary that this is as likely to be a personality tell for HEM (abrasive and self-confident) as it is to be a scumtell for HEM.

there's a couple of differences between that game and this game which stick out to me tonally. i'm aware i know the monkey was scum in that game and i don't know the monkey's alignment in this game so it's possible i'm confirmation biasing slightly, but i did feel like HEM believed in the point more this time?

i won't deep dive too much because i'm more interested in checking your opinion of this than like, convincing anyone of my half-baked opinion.

i will admit i don't like, fully understand what HEM was getting at during your lengthy conversation, nor do I care a whole bunch. but it presented as having a lot more depth to it here vs. in the linked game. "your read on jake is bad therefore is made up therefore you're scum" is just genuinely an unproductive and insincere approach to take. not going to go into the scumtells i see in the other game which are missing here. i feel like i can see an evolution of thought in the way HEM is trying to approach your argument here (where the linked game is quite rigid). i also feel like in the linked game HEM seemed pretty drawn to that innate scum need to be viewed as a ~winner~ of the conversation or not lose ground, whereas in this game i just feel like HEM is trying to make their point.

Spoiler:

like if everyone really thinks the approach here for town should be find one town and get out i can find one town and get out

but it just feels like we can do better even if i am beyond terrible at organizing

the problem is you really can't trust the fog of no mechanical information, and at some point you'd need to crystallize your reads by doing mechanical action.

for example, i think playing the way i did created a clear event that you can read from - and the day has not ended. we don't have to wait for the next day to create these events (like for example, me popping a trust (with the understanding that it won't be immediately accepted if the recipient is town).

i think we're still at the point where we'll need to slow this a bit so tris, NorwegianBoy, Greeting, and Adante can catch up and react to these first 15 pages.

chav, i'm shocked you're annoyed by not having the opportunity to be viewed as town this early in the game. didn't you say you'd rather stay later than get trusted early?

for example my reads are

pavowski
norwegianboyEE,
meuh, andante, greeting, tris,
chavela, bugspray

what's yours

okay let's talk about why they're tiered that way

vs. the linked game is just taking far too long to post that thing i said about like "why do you have this read on jake also your read on jake is fake and you're scum !!!!!!" which, is super two-dimensional and HEM spent far too long on it imo. here i felt like HEM was trying to get at something which the monkey probably actually believed in?


i'd also point to a subtle tonal difference between the games. in the linked game i don't think HEM was trying to really make a point which HEM believed in? whereas here i think HEM was genuinely frustrated that there was a disconnect, which makes me feel like the monkey was looking for some kind of actual spark or like, game advancement, which didn't happen. just quoting the posts in both games in which HEM stepped down because i think both portray the tonality i'm seeing.

i got what i needed, thank you.

you have it, you have the towncrown. i concede. go solve.

also;

shiki is a shining river filled with cities

this is so magical.

[Meuh]

the way it feels like everyone is more or less synching up with like

who is scummy

feels good

the less my brain has to work the better

Do you think everyone's views lining up is good in this game? Or is it good specifically in this case since you're a part of this consensus? Or is it good legitimately just because your brain has to work less? What exactly is the sentiment behind this? I'm curious

it's good because it means that it's a bit more likely to be right from experience because everyone's nodding in the same direction and it's good because i don't have to worry about the mental load of going against the grain and it's good because that means i'm riding the wave

Cool!

[the worst]

Are this have refering to "i want to stay and help making pairs"?

do you think i'm basic? or are you not interested in talking about reads?
or both, both is fine. i'm a bit basic so this isn't an edged question.

[Kuriyama]

also;

shiki is a shining river filled with cities

this is so magical.

I miss Anya

[the worst]

and if there’s reason for townreading humaneatingmonkey beyond ‘hasn’t accepted trust offer’ i guess i am interested in that as well

I think the way he is intransigent towards you felt kind of townie to me

ditto + i think the way HEM ceded the point is a lot more earnest.
you're better at words.

[Kuriyama]

i almost offered a trust there to be silly. a little funny

i also think if kuri is scum they could probably do some damage!

I guess it makes sense to take me out early then

[Ydrasse]

haha... unless?