KTaNE [game over!]

[Frogsterking]

i have never seen a slot like frog's in a large theme not be town, yet. the kinda person who tried to solve all 18 other players on page 10. This would be like the third time that i can remember though.

i dont like larges

Why not?

[VP Baltar]

Yes. And I know what game you're referring to.

When was the last time you rolled scum before that?

FWIW, I don't think my work will like super impact my ability to play the game. I was more just complaining because all my colleagues took off on spring break and I'm picking up the slack.

Um, before that, IDK. I think I rolled scum once or twice during marathon games. I have a bad memory for this kind of stuff. What's the relevance of the last time I rolled scum?

[Morning Tweet]

8 players who have the most nominations at eod1 will be bomb experts on n1.

That is way more than iw as expecting

pedit: If I had to guess because it sets the bar too high. i'm not sure scum comes out of the gate purporting to be able to solve everything, but like it seems a distinct type of player enjoys the challenge and then seriously does it

it was Pink_Ball in the team mafia game i don't say the name of, as well as someone in a mafia invitational trainwreck i played some years back

[Cephrir]

Oh, 8 experts tonight and we can't pick them for two days... so we can either pick 8 townreads to protect from the nightkill or we can just elect scum on purpose and save townreads for later when our odds of succeeding if we even wanted to are better.

[Titus]

Hey titus, how you been?

Sick but improving

Glad to hear it!

Why didn’t you like the frog vote?

I strongly feel Frogsterking is town.

[Menalque]

I’m sad u wouldn’t answer me, morning

Why do you ask every game? i'm soury though i guess im not in the mood

i have my reasons, but i’m sorry if it was annoying today! It’s very nice to see you anyways

hey Menalque!! it's good to see you again

how you feeling about this game? seemed like you were burned out on rolling/playing scum last time I saw ya

Likewise!

Yeah man, I’m feeling p good, this is the first town roll I’ve had in like over 6 months (admittedly several of those were hiatus but every alt game I’ve done since coming back has been scum lmao)

[Menalque]

Hey titus, how you been?

Sick but improving

Glad to hear it!

Why didn’t you like the frog vote?

I strongly feel Frogsterking is town.

Okay, I won’t push you for reasons rn but I’ll keep that in mind

[Morning Tweet]

Oh that's not what you asked.

Spoiler: for frog

larges (at least, non-grand idea or otherwise bastard ones where everyone dies immediately) have a higher amount of arguments since i mean there's just so much content it's bound to happen. there's a higher chance i personally will get annoyed, since there's more players too

There's also the curse of playing with people you like. I prefer smaller games with a couple of people i know and the rest people im less familar with. In Larges a lot of times though you already know a lot of the players which for me personally is a lot less fun, it's harder for me to push people i like or have to argue with them

Something like that. Larges just have a higher chance of going wrong for me. i couldd fall 30 pages behind in a day or get in a toxic fight out of nowhere and then i'll be trapped for like forever cause larges take so long to end too sometimes.

It may or may not be actually true that larges are more likely to go wrong, but i just happen to have played in more unfun larges than i can keep track of

I really like the playerlist and the setup so i joined but i'm still mostly picturing all the other large themes ive played so i feel really complain-y. But if you were really curious why then there

[Morning Tweet]

u weren't annoying Mena i just meant I'm on extra guard it feels like. Ur good

[Andante]

Spoiler: Frog list

PEdit: Good point Ceph

PoE Order Matters:

1. Very early townreads:
   
2. Frogsterking
   
   
3. StrangeMatter
   
   
4. Greeting
   
   
   
   Null + posted:
   
5. Cephrir
   
   
6. PookyTheMagicalBear
   
   
7. The Bulge
   
   
8. Titus
   
   
9. Lukewarm
   
   
10. catboi
    
    
11. Morning Tweet
    
    
12. Menalque
    
    
    
    Null + not posted:
    
13. Andante
    
    
14. The Praetorian
    
    
15. Dwlee99
    
    
16. Andresvmb
    
    
17. Cat Scratch Fever
    
    
    Very early scumreads:
    
18. Bell
    
    
19. GuiltyLion
    
    
20. VP Baltar

More info:
Order matters in every tier except Null + not posted. The Null + not posted is completely random, the other three tiers are ordered intentionally from #1 most townie to #19 least townie. I moved my weakest early townread (Ceph) and weakest early scumread (MorningTweet) to their respective positions withinin the Null + posted tier. Barring some exceptional dayplay in a good or bad direction I don't think the players in the townread tier should go anywhere near the bottom of the PoE and I don't think the players in the scumread tier should go anywhere near the top of the PoE. I think the Null + posted is more townie than the Null + not posted by about a hair length, moreso toward the top of the tier than at the bottom.

LOL so I looked at this saw like "ORDER MATTERS" and was like, how the heck did you order the non posters... like yeah I'm town, but this sounds too good to be a true list... but then you specified the non poster order doesn't matter... (Definitely a tangent, but I had a good laugh and had to share)


Also, NO ONE TALKED ABOUT THAT VIDEO DATS PUT ON POST 1???? That song was awesome!!! Like.. yaaassss I was listening to it on repeat for a bit lol


Umm VP saying something about "I ask a lot of setup questions" felt really odd to me, like, I don't think anyone has a problem with the setup questions being adressed at the start of the game, I can go find the specific post if someone is dying to know, but it felt off.

Catboi vs Pooky was an interesting dynamic, umm not sure I want to share my thoughts there yet.

i have never seen a slot like frog's in a large theme not be town, yet. the kinda person who tried to solve all 18 other players on page 10. This would be like the third time that i can remember though.

i dont like larges

Why not?

^ This post feels so bad... Like, why are you asking someone why they don't like large games? what info from that answer do you want? Feels like you're just trying to "look busy"

And kinda with that, I believe it was Tweet that was like "I almost never see maf make a reads list like that this early" or something... I don't actually agree with much of that list, nor do I believe much work went into it, and if I had to guess, more work went into the format than the reads themselves, and like, if you're gonna repeat "THE ORDER MATTERS" like, why not give more on that? Ellaborate more on what makes someone slightly townier than someone else, cause you going "ORDER MATTERS ON MY RVS READS" means absolutely nothing... Like, you saying people at the bottom of your list can't possibly be town?? It feels really odd to me you're that confidint 100 posts into the game when most of the talk has been "idk how this works"


idk, those are my initial thoughts, I'll be back in a bit, thought I'd pop in and say some stuff before people really move on, and so my thoughts can still be sorta relevant

[catboi]

What is the biggest factor preventing us from just sending people to try and be bomb experts, like in resistance, have them try to succeed, and if there's a failure, it's guaranteed someone sabotaged so we still learn something?

If we play the other way, as catboi mentioned, scum gets an additional nightkill and we can't use the system. But we do stop them from being able to achieve their alternate wincon. Is their alternate wincon so likely though? If scum decides the defuser, and they have to put their own members in the defuser spot a bunch of times to win, and they also need to live, won't we notice that? It's gonna be a huge difference if scum nominates consensus townreads in other to nightkill them, versus tries to slip their own members in that chair. At least, to me it would seem that way

Had I rolled scum this game my goal would have been to propose something more or less like the former, playing it like resistance, and blitz the alternate win condition. Four successes is a small amount and it's certainly easier than trying to cut through an enormous amount of townies with a limited supply of nightkills. I would think there's at least a few other players in this game who'd think that way.

I said "fail by default" with the assumption the defuser is unlikely to be a consensus townread and it's more valuable to flip anyone there is some uncertainty about. Saving someone from the bomb should mean you'd be willing to bet the game on them being town.

What I'm trying to say is that reflexively trying to pass/fail people is bad, I suppose, although that's a much less exciting and cool-sounding approach.

And yes I'm sorry for probably rehashing what's already been talking about probably but it's the only way i can really participate in mech

The alternate wincons don't seem like something that will get completed, so much as something to make the bombs actually have some kind of stakes. At least, it seems to me that was the design goal anyway. whether or not it can be broken, ill leave up to others

I don't particularly mind the discussions at this point because hashing it out is useful and sometimes people can be read off their involvement with the mechanics. (not always necessarily in the obvious Greeting way, but still)

[Andante]

we can either pick 8 townreads to protect from the nightkill

might not be a bad idea tbh... definitely not something I'm really gonna put thought into till later though

[Morning Tweet]

What is the biggest factor preventing us from just sending people to try and be bomb experts, like in resistance, have them try to succeed, and if there's a failure, it's guaranteed someone sabotaged so we still learn something?

If we play the other way, as catboi mentioned, scum gets an additional nightkill and we can't use the system. But we do stop them from being able to achieve their alternate wincon. Is their alternate wincon so likely though? If scum decides the defuser, and they have to put their own members in the defuser spot a bunch of times to win, and they also need to live, won't we notice that? It's gonna be a huge difference if scum nominates consensus townreads in other to nightkill them, versus tries to slip their own members in that chair. At least, to me it would seem that way

Had I rolled scum this game my goal would have been to propose something more or less like the former, playing it like resistance, and blitz the alternate win condition. Four successes is a small amount and it's certainly easier than trying to cut through an enormous amount of townies with a limited supply of nightkills. I would think there's at least a few other players in this game who'd think that way.

I said "fail by default" with the assumption the defuser is unlikely to be a consensus townread and it's more valuable to flip anyone there is some uncertainty about. Saving someone from the bomb should mean you'd be willing to bet the game on them being town.

What I'm trying to say is that reflexively trying to pass/fail people is bad, I suppose, although that's a much less exciting and cool-sounding approach.

And yes I'm sorry for probably rehashing what's already been talking about probably but it's the only way i can really participate in mech

The alternate wincons don't seem like something that will get completed, so much as something to make the bombs actually have some kind of stakes. At least, it seems to me that was the design goal anyway. whether or not it can be broken, ill leave up to others

I don't particularly mind the discussions at this point because hashing it out is useful and sometimes people can be read off their involvement with the mechanics. (not always necessarily in the obvious Greeting way, but still)

Let's say scum tries to win via the alternate way though -- do they need all mafia to be highly townread (or many of them) in order for it to work, or just one? If mafia keeps selecting the same person to defuse won't it become obvious they're abusing that? Whereas if the defuser changes each time, i find it extremely unlikely every single mafia manages to be the towniest players. Or even get close to that, really

true though if the defuser is just some person and not a consensus townread, then it doesn't really make sense to help them defuse, I agree. Which is a shame because i think that more than likely we're going to end up in a place where the mech isn't getting used. Obviously not the fault of the ppl suggesting that, though, just how the game works

[Morning Tweet]

LOL so I looked at this saw like "ORDER MATTERS" and was like, how the heck did you order the non posters... like yeah I'm town, but this sounds too good to be a true list... but then you specified the non poster order doesn't matter... (Definitely a tangent, but I had a good laugh and had to share)

LMFAO i mnissed that

^ This post feels so bad... Like, why are you asking someone why they don't like large games? what info from that answer do you want? Feels like you're just trying to "look busy"

You yourself just acknowledged that frog posted a readlist of every person in the game, ordered, including the nonposters.

how can you also bring up "busywork" in the same breath?

[Menalque]

u weren't annoying Mena i just meant I'm on extra guard it feels like. Ur good

Okay, that’s good to hear!

***

Also as a general FYI I won’t be paying any attention to mechanics for the first couple of days so imma just roll with the majority on that

***

feel like I’m going to be able to read catboi this game

***

very neutral on morning
kinda town leaning titus
kinda town on andante

[Morning Tweet]

(it's not just about the readslist but you get the idfea. frog basically came off like the equivalent of a mafia overachiever to me, yet you're honing in on like the one time he's not doing that

[VP Baltar]

very neutral on morning

what is a very neutral read?

[The Bulge]

sneak peek of the first page of the mod pt postgame:

[The Bulge]

VOTE: Andante

[Frogsterking]

Yes. And I know what game you're referring to.

When was the last time you rolled scum before that?

FWIW, I don't think my work will like super impact my ability to play the game. I was more just complaining because all my colleagues took off on spring break and I'm picking up the slack.

Um, before that, IDK. I think I rolled scum once or twice during marathon games. I have a bad memory for this kind of stuff.

What's the relevance of the last time I rolled scum?

Because for most players to be vulnerable to an early tonal read I think there needs to be some kind of reason, because a given player needs to be really tonally distinct and noticeable for another human to actually be able to perceive it in my humble opinion. Even moreso in your case where I would predict your extraversion and experience safeguard you against tonal reads. I think not rolling scum in a legit game in a long time is a great reason why you might be vulnerable to an early tonal read, and because there's a great reason why an early tonal read might be possible, I'm trusting my own observation a lot more, because I'm very sure that I'm observing a distinct tonal shift from you that's self conscious and pensive.

Also the words I bolded cause me to suspect someone might be lying coming from almost any person in pretty much any situation ever, even if I said them myself.

[VP Baltar]

sneak peek of the first page of the mod pt postgame:

this mf

[The Praetorian]

Hi I'm not reading the first 7 pages

nom me for defuser ty
HEAL: the praetorian

also VOTE: catboi

[Titus]

Hey titus, how you been?

Sick but improving

Glad to hear it!

Why didn’t you like the frog vote?

I strongly feel Frogsterking is town.

Okay, I won’t push you for reasons rn but I’ll keep that in mind

Fair. I'm standing back and standoffish for now.

[The Bulge]

What is the biggest factor preventing us from just sending people to try and be bomb experts, like in resistance, have them try to succeed, and if there's a failure, it's guaranteed someone sabotaged so we still learn something?

If we play the other way, as catboi mentioned, scum gets an additional nightkill and we can't use the system. But we do stop them from being able to achieve their alternate wincon. Is their alternate wincon so likely though? If scum decides the defuser, and they have to put their own members in the defuser spot a bunch of times to win, and they also need to live, won't we notice that? It's gonna be a huge difference if scum nominates consensus townreads in other to nightkill them, versus tries to slip their own members in that chair. At least, to me it would seem that way

Had I rolled scum this game my goal would have been to propose something more or less like the former, playing it like resistance, and blitz the alternate win condition. Four successes is a small amount and it's certainly easier than trying to cut through an enormous amount of townies with a limited supply of nightkills. I would think there's at least a few other players in this game who'd think that way.

I don't think the scum alt wincon is as scary as you are making it out to be. certainly not something that can be blitzed. reasons morning already mentioned but i feel this post was overlooked.

If we play the other way, as catboi mentioned, scum gets an additional nightkill and we can't use the system. But we do stop them from being able to achieve their alternate wincon. Is their alternate wincon so likely though? If scum decides the defuser, and they have to put their own members in the defuser spot a bunch of times to win, and they also need to live, won't we notice that? It's gonna be a huge difference if scum nominates consensus townreads in other to nightkill them, versus tries to slip their own members in that chair. At least, to me it would seem that way

[Menalque]

very neutral on morning

what is a very neutral read?

as in null

interacting with her so far hasn’t left me any closer on her alignment