Mini Normal 2268 Game Over

[Roden]

My brain has been churning and I think I am at the point where I agree with Roden’s idea that the game being stagnant when it was indicates GL is town. That doesn’t really alleviate my feelings on Roden tho, it just affects how I see GL

I can't agree with that. The game was stagnant because there was hidden resistance to the GL wagon, which immediately surfaced when GL was put to E-1.

What does this even mean...?

[humaneatingmonkey]

tell me about your other reads

Tictac
Shadow
GL
Koba
Dwlee
NK15

Marci
Chaos
Meuh

Gamma
HEM

Town/null/scum

The only ones not really mentioned in my ISO are Shadow, Marci, and Chaos. I liked Shadow's catch up post, effort =/= town but there was still way more effort than expected, and the contents itself was townie. Marci and Chaos haven't pinged me much one way or another, but I feel like I can read Marci over time, and since I town read Koba I can just defer to them for now on Chaos until I get something more alignment indicative out of them.

tell me about gamma

[humaneatingmonkey]

the contents itself was townie

can you tell me what contents are townie

[humaneatingmonkey]

just bringing in your perspective in my re-read

[ChaosOmega]

I'm 100% confident Roden doesn't "swoop in" to defend me like that as scum, there wouldn't be a need to

actually why tho

because I'm town and at E-1, what on earth does scum Roden gain from pushing so hard against the wagon that he attracts attention/votes instead? I'm useful to keep around scum should want me gone

I get that it will look different to someone who doesn't know my alignment but I give exactly 0% chance Roden had any scum agenda to what he posted. The better question is why do you think it's a scum-indicative action?

I think it's scum indicative

how

he went about defending you. It felt like he had too much skin in the game there. The only feasible explanation I could see for town!Roden to have felt that way would be if he had a tangible townread on you before the E-1.

Is there motivation for scum!Roden to make that defense for town!GL?

[Roden]

tell me about your other reads

Tictac
Shadow
GL
Koba
Dwlee
NK15

Marci
Chaos
Meuh

Gamma
HEM

Town/null/scum

The only ones not really mentioned in my ISO are Shadow, Marci, and Chaos. I liked Shadow's catch up post, effort =/= town but there was still way more effort than expected, and the contents itself was townie. Marci and Chaos haven't pinged me much one way or another, but I feel like I can read Marci over time, and since I town read Koba I can just defer to them for now on Chaos until I get something more alignment indicative out of them.

tell me about gamma

VOTE: Gamma

The L-1 vote with no conviction even though he's mentioned GL as a suspect reads bad, like he knows GL will flip town and is already trying to pivot. It coming right after GL's post that my vote is +town for bravery is a funny juxtaposition. Have to go, will be back on later tonight.

I only really voted there in order to progress the game, with the expectation being that I would cause some reactions from folks were weren't okay with a hammer happening. I do feel like GL's reaction is at least okay rn. Meuh I'm a little interested in her reaction but Roden's was definitely the one that pinged me immediately.

Also, I'll back the statement that Koba has a good read rate on chaos

I town read you initially but the read is disintegrating before my eyes at this point.

You keep saying that I'm pinging you but you won't explain why. You keep accusing me of things, but when I press you to explain it turns out you don't have an actual answer or explanation. You're just saying things and hoping that you're blindly believed/that I won't push back in a logical way.

This is exactly why I brought up Open 835 earlier. Because at least when you were making a meta read there, even though you were completely wrong you still tried to explain how you came to your conclusion. We had a sizable back and forth but in the end, you eventually admitted you were wrong and backed off, and I was able to town read you for genuinely believing in your case against me.

None of that is happening here though. You're making meta accusations but you aren't trying to back up any of them. Tictac even just said your meta read of "Roden does argument tricks as scum" was incorrect and that it was more

your

meta, but you ignored that to repeat how much I'm pinging you.

You're not doing any real solving, and honestly your town meta of asking questions and diving into player motivations has been entirely absent.

VOTE: Gamma

I'm 100% confident Roden doesn't "swoop in" to defend me like that as scum, there wouldn't be a need to

actually why tho

because I'm town and at E-1, what on earth does scum Roden gain from pushing so hard against the wagon that he attracts attention/votes instead? I'm useful to keep around scum should want me gone

I get that it will look different to someone who doesn't know my alignment but I give exactly 0% chance Roden had any scum agenda to what he posted. The better question is why do you think it's a scum-indicative action?

I think it's scum indicative

how

he went about defending you. It felt like he had too much skin in the game there. The only feasible explanation I could see for town!Roden to have felt that way would be if he had a tangible townread on you before the E-1.

This is more of what I'm talking about. You've either learned nothing from Open 835, or you're just scum. And I really hope it isn't the former, because at this point you scum read me for catching scum and if I'm ever correct then I'm bussing, you scum read me for having accurate town reads and if I'mever correct then I'm informed, you don't think it's possible for me to accurately town read amd defend a townie at E-1...

Like, just fucking say you think my town game is garbage already. If you think I can only ever have correct reads as scum then there's no point in ever trying to engage with you.

I don’t feel like this is like open 835, is the thing! That game it felt like I could actually talk to you. This game, and in past games where you’ve been scum, you’ve had a hostile aura.

This is blatantly untrue, what the fuck.

I rlly feel like this is not an argument where both parties are acting in good faith
I am not pre-judging that i's roden acting in bad faith tho

Can you explain?

Also do you plan to respond to my earlier posts? Are you just going to park your vote on me or are you going to play?

idk if I can put a pin on it rn but something definitely doesn't feel right about y'alls interactions
and idc to respond unless I get something to change the feeling that you're just gonna take what I say and spin it to make me look bad, because I sensed that as your motive in ln 235 and I feel like that's your motive here

yeah nah I'm fine to sit where I'm at and refuse to elaborate further

I'll give content if someone I care to engage with asks for it

Like you're actively refusing to talk to me here.

Also your "hostile aura/anger" meta was even disproven in this game??

How did you even come to this conclusion that "anger = scum" when it's always been the complete opposite?

Because I feel like there’s a pattern in games where you’re scum of “I push Roden on something > he freaks out about it > he flips scum” so it might just be your base reaction and I’m having a positive feedback loop

So are you town that learned nothing and actively choosing to make the same mistakes, or are you scum trying to massage Koba's ego so you can get what you want?

[Roden]

the contents itself was townie

can you tell me what contents are townie

The individual questions/comments/analysis for every player in the game. Scum can do that, but I don't think they go that extra by making them so specific and tailor made. They aren't generic things like "how do you feel about X" or "I think this is townie". Also I just like knowing that they have a serious investment in the game. At the very least, I don't think they should ever be a Day 1 elim.

[Gamma Emerald]

My brain has been churning and I think I am at the point where I agree with Roden’s idea that the game being stagnant when it was indicates GL is town. That doesn’t really alleviate my feelings on Roden tho, it just affects how I see GL

I can't agree with that. The game was stagnant because there was hidden resistance to the GL wagon, which immediately surfaced when GL was put to E-1.

Why did it ONLY surface at that point?

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm 100% confident Roden doesn't "swoop in" to defend me like that as scum, there wouldn't be a need to

actually why tho

because I'm town and at E-1, what on earth does scum Roden gain from pushing so hard against the wagon that he attracts attention/votes instead? I'm useful to keep around scum should want me gone

I get that it will look different to someone who doesn't know my alignment but I give exactly 0% chance Roden had any scum agenda to what he posted. The better question is why do you think it's a scum-indicative action?

I think it's scum indicative

how

he went about defending you. It felt like he had too much skin in the game there. The only feasible explanation I could see for town!Roden to have felt that way would be if he had a tangible townread on you before the E-1.

Is there motivation for scum!Roden to make that defense for town!GL?

Yea
Pocketing GL, as well as turning things onto me

[humaneatingmonkey]

Chaos do you think Roden should be townreading you

[humaneatingmonkey]

The confidence in the push from HEM reads more like bravado (or confidence in himself) more than confidence in the read. There is probably a better way to put it, but I can't think of it.

am i not a bit suspicious

[DkKoba]

Roden, townreading me wont placate me. Explain your progression on GL and why you reached such a confident townread

[ShadowGirl]

They've popped in a couple times to say "GL scum" and that's about it, their earlier fire is entirely gone.

it's true my earlier fire is entirely gone.

i'm really not paying any attention in this game.

but i've popped in to say "GL town", actually

Just want to add that if you do believe this, your vote is however still on GL currently.

I gave you my list what do you think?

Want to add my new thoughts on this which is that you just basically followed Roden's analysis and voted for HEM and this comment is giving me vibes of either 1) coaxing me to try and determine if I scumread you so to determine how to act towards me 2) seeing where my vote goes and sheep that. Can you tell me why you find HEM scummier than Gamma in your mind, or is it just because HEM is getting more attention from everyone?

I can't agree with that. The game was stagnant because there was hidden resistance to the GL wagon, which immediately surfaced when GL was put to E-1.

Are you more suspicious of GL or Roden for what happened? Is your read that they are both scumbuddies? And would also like to add that Gamma did at that time post intent for hammer unless you 100% believed at the time it was happened that was a gambit and/or for some reason was sure that he would not hammer?

I didn't have anything really in particular to question Dwlee on, it felt more productive to pressure you. The NK15 point is valid, and I brought it up in my post that I'm very likely wrong somewhere here. Gamma has experience with him and says that NK15 feels town, so if that's just his posting style, I need to look past my view of his tone, which is definitely coloring my read of his slot.

Townreads right now are marci, HEM, and Koba.

Since you were going off of Gamma for your NK15-town but you now think they're scum are voting them, are you back to putting NK15 in the top of your scumreads? How do you fell that they are still adamant on GL + Roden scum?

@DkKoba: Can you tell me why you lean towards the opinion of more likely rather than less likely that there is a traitor? Given how many times you made the reference I'm curious about this.

Currently where my head is at that the GL run-up gained traction too fast and got close to elimination. There is a slight possibility of GL/Roden being scumbuddies with a last minute clutch defence (less likely due to high risk), or scum!Roden defending a soon-to-be-flipped townie but overall I lean towards townie for them both/not D1 picks.

[Gamma Emerald]

I didn't post intent, I placed the E-1 vote

[ShadowGirl]

I didn't post intent, I placed the E-1 vote

You're right - got a bit scrambled on page 20 - the amendment for my comment to NK15 is about how they feel about you (Gamma) and DkKoba potentially baiting for quickhammers. Just would like to clarify about your E-1 vote to GL: did you actually believe that GL could be scum when you voted or was it solely to get reactions?

Also @DKkoba:

VOTE: GL
Aight

Why revote on GL which still puts it at E-1 rather than gather more info from inactive players? Still don’t love the baiting for a quick hammer which if a trigger happy townie does it, makes an easy D2 vote out.

[DkKoba]

Who in this playerlist would be able to quickhammer and explain it away as towny?

[Gamma Emerald]

Just would like to clarify about your E-1 vote to GL: did you actually believe that GL could be scum when you voted or was it solely to get reactions?

Both, though mostly the latter

[ShadowGirl]

Who in this playerlist would be able to quickhammer and explain it away as towny?

I haven't played on this site for nearly ten years so I can't give any opinions on any of the people here. Again, I just don't love the set-up as a personal preference, particularly making the then most active poster as the sacrificial lamb.

Also, I noted that no one ever asked for a claim from GL even though he was at E-1/very close to getting voted out.

[DkKoba]

Well I will tell you I know the entire playerlist here, and have even at least spectated Meuh to know there are no players here who would quickhammer there.

I make calculated decisions based on how I know players act, and part of that is knowing how people treat e-1.

I am sure gamma has similar reasons for not being as afraid.

Not_Mafia is not in this game, who autohammers his null reads and below so I did not feel unsafe to put that at e-1 at all.

I think you are pursuing a pointless venture here and it is easily explained by people understanding eachother due to meta.

[Dwlee99]

Want to add my new thoughts on this which is that you just basically followed Roden's analysis and voted for HEM and this comment is giving me vibes of either 1) coaxing me to try and determine if I scumread you so to determine how to act towards me 2) seeing where my vote goes and sheep that. Can you tell me why you find HEM scummier than Gamma in your mind, or is it just because HEM is getting more attention from everyone?

I posted my explanation for why I found HEM scummy before Roden did and you can go find it to see why I'm voting there.

[ShadowGirl]

I think you are pursuing a pointless venture here and it is easily explained by people understanding eachother due to meta.

It's not pointless to me since what I have to go on in is current in-game actions, which is that it seemed like baiting/trying for a fast D1 elimination. I also don't know why you're trying to be super dismissive about it since this comment is not specific to only you, but also to Gamma.

1) Why didn't you ask GL for a claim?
2) Can you answer my question about you being adamant about that there is a traitor in the game?
3) What are you current thoughts on Dwlee?

[ShadowGirl]

I posted my explanation for why I found HEM scummy before Roden did and you can go find it to see why I'm voting there.

Is it based on this ?
Because it seems like you have a stronger opinion on Gamma than HEM.

I haven't read a /lot/ outside of what Koba has kind of pointed out in the hood but there is some stuff I got

I had a thought that HEM's read on me going from null -> town without me posting was really weird and koba kinda just blew me off

They're saying other kinda ridiculous stuff but not beneficial to out probably? Gamma's E-1 vote wasn't good. Mala in bears with guns did the E-1 on someone to goad math to hammer and it's pretty similar. I guess there isn't a similar person that was goaded to hammer, but GL's point that you only really leave someone at E-1 like that hoping that someone hammers are right.

About Koba possibly pocketing me in the hood - Not really? If Koba wanted to pocket me they'd probably approach me differently in the hood. I've butted heads with them every game recently and this isn't an exception so :shrug:

I'm gonna go find the HEM posts cause Koba ignored me based on townlocking HEM

[DkKoba]

I think you are pursuing a pointless venture here and it is easily explained by people understanding eachother due to meta.

It's not pointless to me since what I have to go on in is current in-game actions, which is that it seemed like baiting/trying for a fast D1 elimination. I also don't know why you're trying to be super dismissive about it since this comment is not specific to only you, but also to Gamma.

1) Why didn't you ask GL for a claim?
2) Can you answer my question about you being adamant about that there is a traitor in the game?
3) What are you current thoughts on Dwlee?

1) I dont care about claims generally, people will back me up on this. I have caught scum by blasting through claims. they mean nothing to me day 1 in a closed setup.
2) I am past this point and im back to about rand chance of traitor. This primairly was due to my scumread on dwlee at the start of the game.
3) That is between dwlee and I in our hood

I noted you barely gave any concrete alignment reads on me however - what is your feeling on my alignment?

[Roden]

Roden, townreading me wont placate me. Explain your progression on GL and why you reached such a confident townread

Only when you stop hiding your Dwlee progression in your hood

[Roden]

I'm 100% confident Roden doesn't "swoop in" to defend me like that as scum, there wouldn't be a need to

actually why tho

because I'm town and at E-1, what on earth does scum Roden gain from pushing so hard against the wagon that he attracts attention/votes instead? I'm useful to keep around scum should want me gone

I get that it will look different to someone who doesn't know my alignment but I give exactly 0% chance Roden had any scum agenda to what he posted. The better question is why do you think it's a scum-indicative action?

I think it's scum indicative

how

he went about defending you. It felt like he had too much skin in the game there. The only feasible explanation I could see for town!Roden to have felt that way would be if he had a tangible townread on you before the E-1.

Is there motivation for scum!Roden to make that defense for town!GL?

Yea
Pocketing GL, as well as turning things onto me

???

What? How could I have possibly planned for you doing anything that you did?