Mini Normal 2268 Game Over

[Not Known 15]

Monkey please dont use the word you used in 813. Whats the difference between roden and meuh that makes you think that the meuh defense came from town and the roden defense from scum?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Meuh just feels like scum to me. not all that engaged, surface level reads/analysis, 754 is a bizarre post like she's clearly sheeping tictac, why play the "I didn't say I agree with tictac!!" card in response to Koba's question??

what do you think about Meuh's response on why they sheeped tictac?

[humaneatingmonkey]

sorry didn't realize what i typed

[marcistar]

I want to know who's against both wagons.

j think rodens fine rn ..?

[humaneatingmonkey]

okay thanks for this post because i took a closer look

Whats the difference between roden and meuh that makes you think that the meuh defense came from town and the roden defense from scum?

first, my impression was meuh had townread GL all along. i also thought her explanation for gamestates differentiates her from Roden's angle (which was GL was obvtown). but i wasn't sure enough, so so i looked. but to my surprise, that's not the case. she was scumreading him.

so im going to consider this.

[humaneatingmonkey]

You reread the game and somehow missed that even though I posted it four different times??

honestly roden yes

[humaneatingmonkey]

j think rodens fine rn ..?

do you want to share why you townread roden

[Meuh]

okay thanks for this post because i took a closer look

Whats the difference between roden and meuh that makes you think that the meuh defense came from town and the roden defense from scum?

first, my impression was meuh had townread GL all along. i also thought her explanation for gamestates differentiates her from Roden's angle (which was GL was obvtown). but i wasn't sure enough, so so i looked. but to my surprise, that's not the case. she was scumreading him.

so im going to consider this.

I think there’s a pretty significant difference between Roden & I’s approaches to the whole defence counter push anti-wagon criticism movement or whatever you wanna call it

My read on GL was like, slight scum lean at first, but the stagnant game state irked me and made me reconsider

Also my push against the GL wagon wasn’t primarily motivated by my read on him, it was mostly because:
-I wanted to fight against him being put on E-1, which I thought and still think was an anti-town move from both Gamma and Dk. I tend to feel pretty strongly about some mechanical play and that’s an instance that I felt strongly about
-I don’t feel strongly about GL (or most people, really)’s alignment, like I said I haven’t gotten into this game that much, but I wanted to contribute. That was one of the best ways to actually help out with the game despite my lack of strong feelings. Poof, I gave people more material to read me off of and I helped motivate some more discussion, overall I’m happy with it
-I especially wanted Dk to shake up their reads instead of being overconfident about GL’s alignment, because I think they were tunneling and confbiasing pretty hard, which isn’t really productive. (and also frustrated me lol) That’s why most of the posts I initially made about the GL wagon are directed at Dk.
They changed up their vote which is cool although their reads haven’t seemed to have gotten better from where their vote is placed now but that’s okay

If you look at the posts I made the evening E-1 was placed, you’ll see that I don’t actually take any stance about GL’s alignment, because I don’t really have one to make. It’s mostly me being critical of the points Dk was making.
523 is the most I discuss my stance about GL’s alignment at that point and it’s vague and made to make Dk reflect, only saying I think it’s “fairly likely” for a scenario where GL’s town to be true

That’s why I felt less and was less committal, I didn’t and still don’t feel that strongly about GL’s alignment. Because of that, my motivation towards pushing against the wagon wasn’t motivated as strongly or in the same way Roden’s was

[Not Known 15]

Why do you think that putting gl at e-1 was mechanically bad?

[Meuh]

Literally every post I made on the evening E-1 happened was in one of 3 categories:
1. Saying E-1’s bad and dumb (481, 482, 486)
2. Talking about Marci’s arguments against me (498, 505, 512)
3. Directly responding to some of Dk’s posts I thought had bad logic or bad points (523, 524, 532, 537, 538)

GL’s alignment was not something I was focused on

[Meuh]

Why do you think that putting gl at e-1 was mechanically bad?

Here are the benefits each alignment gets from it:

Town (if town!GL):
-Discussion is slightly fuelled (can also be done in many less risky ways)

Town (if scum!GL):
-Discussion fuelled
-If GL gets hammered, that’s scum down (but we could always yknow, just do that later; so we aren’t missing out on much by not putting GL on E-1 at the time it happened)

Mafia (if town!GL)
-If the day concludes early, town’s progressed less far in their reads, giving mafia a bit of a headstart
-If a townie’s prone to take the opportunity and hammer GL, mafia can reasonably get that player limmed the following day, poof that’s F8 made with the mafia team intact
-The potential halt to town’s reads from an early flip is amplified by the fact that GL’s one of the most vocal players, mafia would benefit strongly to have him out of the picture
-E-1 existing gives scum an opportunity to try a chaotic play (especially scary considering the setup’s closed)

Mafia (if scum!GL)
-Day could end early
-Scum have wiggle room to try a play
-Bussing potential

Ultimately there’s no major benefits for town to put people on E-1. For scum however, although there’s a good chance they don’t do anything (hammering would be risky), we’re still providing the mafia team for an opportunity to try out a play, or for a townie to hammer and end up helping out scum.
It’s giving ammo to the scum team, even if we don’t think it’s likely they use that ammo

[DkKoba]

no one answered who would quickhammer a player as town in this playerlist

[DkKoba]

so this discussion is just a distraction and meant to avoid critical thinking about the action itself

[humaneatingmonkey]

How many fucking times do I need to quote that post

You reread the game and somehow missed that even though I posted it four different times??

yo seriously i iso'd you and i can't see it (why you think GL is obvtown). can you help out? sorry for inconvenience.

[humaneatingmonkey]

no one answered who would quickhammer a player as town in this playerlist

so this discussion is just a distraction and meant to avoid critical thinking about the action itself

meuh's not trying to argue that she's right. she's trying to let us know what was in her head in those moments. do you buy that this is where her head was? do you think this is townie? personally, im a bit convinced if not for the pure mechanical take on the game detached from any reads.

[Meuh]

no one answered who would quickhammer a player as town in this playerlist

I’m sorry that unlike you, I’m not an expert on every player in the game’s playstyle! There’s a total of 9 players in the game who I had never played with or spectated, how should I know? (To be fair some of them were already voting GL, but still) Why would I ever be okay with E-1 happening when there’s so much unknown surrounding it?
This makes 0 sense as a response to my post

[Meuh]

so this discussion is just a distraction and meant to avoid critical thinking about the action itself

Ah of course, presenting my thought process in response to being asked about it so people get a better understanding of my stance on something avoids critical thinking

[DkKoba]

I think the argument is trying to project that on others and take advantage how putting someone on e-1 "looks" scummy. So yea seeya later scumfuck

[DkKoba]

so this discussion is just a distraction and meant to avoid critical thinking about the action itself

Ah of course, presenting my thought process in response to being asked about it so people get a better understanding of my stance on something avoids critical thinking

You are trying to subtly shade people who were ok with e-1 still so like

[Meuh]

Sure, mechanical discussion at this point of the game isn’t massively productive, but the point of it wasn’t to start discussion on mechanics, it was to present my perspective. Plain and simple

[Meuh]

I think the argument is trying to project that on others and take advantage how putting someone on e-1 "looks" scummy. So yea seeya later scumfuck

If that was the point I was making, why would I not be pushing for Gamma or you right now

[DkKoba]

Because you're just planting seeds right now

[DkKoba]

You need someone else to start it else it looks scummy rofl

[humaneatingmonkey]

Koba, do you think Gamma is town?

[Meuh]

God if you’re scum you’re playing well, if you’re town you really need to work on avoiding conf-bias