KTaNE [game over!]

[Frogsterking]

But I'm going to be pushing at fire to die again soon and I'm simply not going to stop.

I'm going to push someone else today and not going to stop. You can push fire when I'm dead.

[Bell]

Apparently no one has asked this,

Andre why are you healing people if you've read like, half the game.

I don’t need to read every word to have a sense for some players in the early part. And Healing doesn’t close the thread or shorten the day as far as I can tell, so doing it doesn’t have any impact until the day has ended. So I can update those no problem, and if a majority is reached without my vote, and I want to have some influence. It’s like if you’re going to criticize this about me, did you criticize Pooky when they put Heal votes down in the early part of the game (and very many at that)? Otherwise, you’re basically saying that you prefer to have less information from me, not more, and that seems kind of silly.

Why bother if you're just going to update them anyway.

[Andresvmb]

Apparently no one has asked this,

Andre why are you healing people if you've read like, half the game.

I don’t need to read every word to have a sense for some players in the early part. And Healing doesn’t close the thread or shorten the day as far as I can tell, so doing it doesn’t have any impact until the day has ended. So I can update those no problem, and if a majority is reached without my vote, and I want to have some influence. It’s like if you’re going to criticize this about me, did you criticize Pooky when they put Heal votes down in the early part of the game (and very many at that)? Otherwise, you’re basically saying that you prefer to have less information from me, not more, and that seems kind of silly.

Why bother if you're just going to update them anyway.

You’re defaulting to wanting to see less from me, not more, and I can’t for the life of me understand your impulse. So should I not post until I’ve read every word? Are you going to insist everyone read everything before they consider voting? It’s nonsense.

[Bell]

You didn't plop down a vote. Why didn't you vote someone?

[Andresvmb]

VOTE: frogster

I felt like @Frogsterking you were wrong about your mechanical angle, and couldn’t understand your early aggressiveness perhaps (I felt it misplaced). Which is why I couldn’t fault the vote. The more I kept reading, the more I felt like your probing (though aggressive) was leading to positive places, and I started to grasp your strategic discussion more.

[Andresvmb]

You didn't plop down a vote. Why didn't you vote someone?

You fault me for putting Heal votes down without reading everything (which if I’m being realistic, the odds that I get 8 Town and no Scum even if I read every word D1 are not great), but you want me to place my single elimination vote already? Why?

My strongest SR from the early going was VPB. I’m not ready to vote there until I have actually at least read the entirety of what’s been posted so far so I can be surer there aren’t Scummier slots.

[Andresvmb]

@Frogsterking the above explains why I haven’t voted yet.

Okay, not only is it 3am for me, I need to keep reading. I’ll be back later. But I’ll try a little harder to stay on top of this one.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

andres, do you often catch up in games by making posts like this one?

148 - Interestingly enough, I really don’t like this response from VPB. What does it matter when was the last time you rolled Scum? Like why do you feel self-conscious enough that you decide to actively state when you last rolled Scum? It’s irrelevant to your chances of being Scum in this game. The reflex to answer in this way feels like a bad sign.

wasn't he directly asked? why is it bad that he answered the question

also this

[Bell]

You're asking too many inane questions with near brick like thinking. I'm not going to answer them, use your imagination.

[Frogsterking]

99 - This feels like too strong of a read too early for me. I have a hard time seeing how you can make any argument about VPB’s meta so quickly. I have not been liking frogsterking’s posting thus far.
113 - I don’t understand this at all, but just because I don’t agree, doesn’t make Titus Scum. I just wouldn’t trust them at all.
121 - I agree with the observation made by GuiltyLion here - the use of the word trash by frogsterking is too strong. I do have to say, I think my style clashes with Frogsterking, so I have to be careful about not falling for that trap.

Now andres I have some really specific questions about a couple more parts of your notes.

You agree with the observation made by GuiltyLion, but do you find it AI? What was it about the strength of my words that drew your attention here, is it AI for me?

It seems like you warmed up to my idea about VPB, or at least to the idea about scumreading VPB. Do you feel like I was onto something here with my reason for reading VPB, or do you think I just got lucky by random chance?

Also, it seems like you had some very conflicting views about my slot and Titus' throughout the course of the game. Was there any reason you couldn't have asked us or at least me about some of these things you disagreed with? It's not like I haven't been online through all hours of the night before.

[Frogsterking]

@Frogsterking the above explains why I haven’t voted yet.

Okay, not only is it 3am for me, I need to keep reading. I’ll be back later. But I’ll try a little harder to stay on top of this one.

Fair enough andres, thanks for being a good sport. You too fire. HURT: fire

[Andresvmb]

andres, do you often catch up in games by making posts like this one?

148 - Interestingly enough, I really don’t like this response from VPB. What does it matter when was the last time you rolled Scum? Like why do you feel self-conscious enough that you decide to actively state when you last rolled Scum? It’s irrelevant to your chances of being Scum in this game. The reflex to answer in this way feels like a bad sign.

wasn't he directly asked? why is it bad that he answered the question

also this

He answered the question in a way that I don’t think Town would default to. Who cares when was the last time I played Scum. I’m Town - read me right. Like VPB can be feisty. I feel like they’re more likely to dismiss that question as silly (and as illogical as it is) if they weren’t trying to appease the person asking.

I don’t usually post my notes when catching up, but I can post long summaries of my thoughts if I haven’t been all that active. I like to organize my thinking, and writing notes let’s me do that. I also like to reference specific posts when making arguments (as either alignment though), so not sure you’ll glean too much from that.

[Frogsterking]

1584

for bonus points andres if you're feeling up for it.

[Andresvmb]

You're asking too many inane questions with near brick like thinking. I'm not going to answer them, use your imagination.

I’m trying to get you to say that you think I’m responding like Scum so we can dispose of the dance and get to it already. I think it’s silly that you prefer I don’t try and Heal players, or post unfinished thoughts. If you don’t care for progression, and just want to see results, then you don’t care about the way I’m thinking (which is more likely to lead to a right conclusion about my alignment), and just want to blame me when I inevitably get things wrong. Which raises my level of suspicion about your slot.

[Bell]

I actually don't think you're posting like scum though.

[Frogsterking]

1584

bonus points going until I get back with my tea

[Bell]

I'm not sure if you're posting like town either, but I do think it's a little weird yeah. I think how you're talking to me is odd because it starts with some general premise about how you think mafia works and then you apply it poorly to my posts in addition to straw manning me. Like a normal person, I poke people until they start making sense. Or they don't. Or I forget.

[Frogsterking]

I'm not sure if you're posting like town either, but I do think it's a little weird yeah. I think how you're talking to me is odd because it starts with some general premise about how you think mafia works and then you apply it poorly to my posts in addition to straw manning me. Like a normal person, I poke people until they start making sense. Or they don't. Or I forget.

That would be because he's scum, dear Watson.

[Frogsterking]

Damn I really wish I got through more of andres notes with him.

[Andresvmb]

99 - This feels like too strong of a read too early for me. I have a hard time seeing how you can make any argument about VPB’s meta so quickly. I have not been liking frogsterking’s posting thus far.
113 - I don’t understand this at all, but just because I don’t agree, doesn’t make Titus Scum. I just wouldn’t trust them at all.
121 - I agree with the observation made by GuiltyLion here - the use of the word trash by frogsterking is too strong. I do have to say, I think my style clashes with Frogsterking, so I have to be careful about not falling for that trap.

Now andres I have some really specific questions about a couple more parts of your notes.

You agree with the observation made by GuiltyLion, but do you find it AI? What was it about the strength of my words that drew your attention here, is it AI for me?

It seems like you warmed up to my idea about VPB, or at least to the idea about scumreading VPB. Do you feel like I was onto something here with my reason for reading VPB, or do you think I just got lucky by random chance?

Also, it seems like you had some very conflicting views about my slot and Titus' throughout the course of the game. Was there any reason you couldn't have asked us or at least me about some of these things you disagreed with? It's not like I haven't been online through all hours of the night before.

I will think a player is less likely to be Scum in the early part if I don’t find their thinking offensive. Like most people aren’t great Scum. It’s too hard. So they’ll grab onto things that really aren’t alignment indicative, or overreact, or look for fights they think they can win. I don’t think any Scum in their right mind would try and argue too hard against you. Like why? It just seems like a dumb way to go about anything, since you’re clearly active, probably annoying to deal with when convinced, and can clearly be persuasive. I would appease you or ignore you, not look to criticize you. So I felt it was AI in that way.

I think you were onto something with VPB, but until I read more, I won’t know if I fully agree. But certainly from the early part of the game, I think you were coming at it the right way. I think anyone can get lucky. Good players spot Scum at a rate that’s better than chance. Are you like that? I don’t know - we haven’t played together enough. You don’t seem incompetent to me.

Titus I can’t give a definitive answer on. That’s definitely way too early for me given what I’ve read.

I post my thoughts first, and ask questions later. I was in catch up mode still, so it’s hard to have an actual conversation when I don’t even know everything you’ve argued.

[Bell]

I haven't a clue why you think I think I don't care about your results or whatever. You just seem to be thinking that I'm thinking from a less charitable position than I actually am and speaking to me from that point of view.
I don't get it. But I don't want you to explain it either, because I'm not sure it would help me read you anyway, tbh. I'm mostly interested in you going to bed and getting some rest and catching up like you did in your catch up in your time in a way conducive to your happiness, satisfaction and personal health.

[Andresvmb]

I'm not sure if you're posting like town either, but I do think it's a little weird yeah. I think how you're talking to me is odd because it starts with some general premise about how you think mafia works and then you apply it poorly to my posts in addition to straw manning me. Like a normal person, I poke people until they start making sense. Or they don't. Or I forget.

You were asking me why I was healing players when I haven’t finished reading. I just think it sets an unrealistic standard for how I’m supposed to approach the game. So I got a little annoyed. Like oh you haven’t read everything, so how dare you partake in the full experience? I took it from that perspective. But if that wasn’t what you were trying to do, then it’s fine. But I also wanted you to be a bit more specific because I don’t want to be answering a lot of questions if I’m starting to get the feeling that you’re just trying to trip me, not when I have like 40 more pages to read.

[Andresvmb]

And also, we all have preconceived notions about how Scum play (or at least how certain personality types / players might approach a particular game as Scum). Sorry if I’m applying it “poorly” to your posts, but I have to start from somewhere.

[Frogsterking]

371 - I

genuinely

dislike this take from Bell.

any comment here?

[Frogsterking]

Andres I have another question actually.

Over the last couple of hours you increased your post count from 6 to 36 and posted A LOT of observations about the thread, almost as though you've been reading along. Was there anything special about tonight that caused you to reveal your thoughts and increase the magnitude of your content by such a degree?