Newbie 688 - Game Over, Mafia Wins!

[mrfixij]

@mrjixij: I appreciate that you don't like to clutter the game with pointless asides, but I do feel that you owe me a bit more from that last post.

What, about me and SL? My apologies for not being able to do anything beyond speculate as to my subconscious, I haven't quite reached that level of transcendence yet. As it is, any connection between spring and myself is rather unintentional and coincidental. As I said, it could just be the power of suggestion.

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Page 8 Votecount

WeatheredClown: (0/5)
Crysnia: (0/5)
mrfixij: (0/5)
Mastin: (2/5) QuestionMark, WeatheredClown
Moses le fou: (0/5)
Scheherazade: (2/5) springlullaby, mrfixij,
QuestionMark: (3/5) Scheherazade, Crysnia, Moses le fou,
springlullaby: (0/5)
orangepenguin: (0/5)

Not Voting: (2/9) Mastin, orangepenguin,

With 9 alive, it's 5 to lynch!
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[Scheherazade]

No, I meant the eighty percent of my post.

[mrfixij]

Goddamn I hate responding to quote trees.

@mrfixij:
Not so. I said:

Having written the above, his partner might lurk, but I think that any lurking is suspect anyway.

I anticipated that a mafia player might take a "look for Mastin's scum-buddy" as incentive not to post, and pointed out that not posting is itself suspicious to prevent "OMG you warned his partner!" accusation posts.

So instead of keeping it to yourself, you made it easier for the 2nd scum to play the WIFOM game with us? Because we've put scummy behavior on the spotlight BEFORE it happens, we're left to guess if behavior that happens after that spotlight is turned on is scummy or towny.

Along with 3 other people.

I dunno what that refers to.

If mastin gets lynched, 3 other people (including himself) will not have voted for him. Nearly half of the game will have the credibility of not voting for him. That means that 3 surviving people should be automatically less scummy? That we should automatically assume that both scum were on the wagon to lynch town?

Not to mention that it really doesn't mean a thing if you didn't vote for him. I've been in a game where I was the most pro-town player but was on every town lynch. I put WHERE you vote and your reasoning for voting or not voting at a higher priority than a vote itself.

My point was this:

You accuse me of trying to establish credibility by "defending Mastin." It's a moot point, because I wasn't, but my response was to point to the fact that I hadn't voted for him. If I were trying to establish day two credibility as scum, I had a better way of doing it, no?

See my point above.

Nope. But he made it clear that his policy of not defending himself wasn't the new strategy he had planned.

Would you care to quote that for me? I missed that.

[Scheherazade]

So you think it helps a mafia player's credibility more to say "let's not lynch" a certain lynch than to not hop on that bandwagon?

My point is that actions speak louder than words.

Your accusation was groundless two ways.

And here's the quote from Mastin:

I won't defend myself at all, actually, and will keep my strategy to myself. It's stupid, yes, but I have a firm belief the system works something like this...

The first is the policy, the second the strategy he mentioned. He says that he's keeping his strategy to himself as he outlines his plan for not defending himself, therefore they're not the same thing.

[mrfixij]

Interesting. I'm suspicious of mastin again and want him to stop clamming up.

[Moses le fou]

I wanted to know why QuestionMark replaced into a game he's unable to play.

[vollkan]

Crysnia and QuestionMark have been prodded.

[Crysnia]

I've been prodded but I really don't have much to say. I've been waiting on Questionmark to defend himself/herself. My vote hasn't changed. Nor have my suspicions about mr.fixij.

[mrfixij]

I've been prodded but I really don't have much to say. I've been waiting on Questionmark to defend himself/herself. My vote hasn't changed. Nor have my suspicions about mr.fixij.

Perhaps then you could elaborate on those suspicions. Being suspicious by the gut is one thing. Being suspicious for a reason is another. Lots of scum lynches happen day 1 because scum slips up, and that happens with pressure and evidence. So for myself or anyone, give some pressure or a backing to your suspicion.

[orangepenguin]

9 Posts in almost 3 weeks.

That's not even 1 post a day. =/

[orangepenguin]

That was to Crysnia.

[Scheherazade]

@orangepenguin:

@orangepenguin: I'd be happy to hear those mixed feelings aired. Do you think that you have the second mafia player in that group? I'd like to hear your suspicions of me in particular. mrfixij has twice dropped his accusations against me before completely conceding his case; having another chance to deal with suspicions would be nice. Do you have something to add to his?

Sorry, I've got to find a better way of highlighting these things than an "@" symbol.

[Crysnia]

It's simple. I am not one to vote hope. I believe that QuestionMark is scum. I am waiting for him to prove otherwise. Until then, he has my vote.

I've already explained by suspicions of Mrfixij. He is overly helpful and seems to be trying to control the game through his helpfulness.

Nothing more for me to say.

[mrfixij]

So basically what you're saying right now is that you're playing by gut then? Without being able to quote specific examples for your suspicions and giving more vague overtones you appear rather scummy. Town plays by closely following posts and trying to find inconsistancies. Scum plays as a "GOING WITH MY GUT" town and bases everything off a "hunch".

I understand where you're coming from, but there's a few things you have to realize. The first is that you're using the too towny to be town logic, which is 95% percent of the time a logical fallacy. The second is that by not contributing and by condemning helpfulness, you are in fact playing anti-town. Thirdly, if I was trying to lead town, I wouldn't be accused of following springlullaby's lead.

I'm not going to place a vote on you for now, because this anti-town behavior could be contributed to newbiness and by voting for you, I would ultimately be committing an OMGUS vote. However, consider this a

STRONG HOS: Crysnia

. If you're town, start playing pro-town or face the possibility of a lynch.

[Crysnia]

There is no anti-town behavior here. And never did I say I was going by my gut. The fact is that you are now trying to point the finger at me because I said that your over helpfulness was suspicious to me. I never said someone was too towny, but good try. I have contributed. I already said that I think QuestionMark is mafia. I am waiting for him/her to defend herself. I refuse to jump on someone else until that issue is resolved. The only reason I even brought up my suspicion of you was because I was asked who else is suspicious besides QuestionMark / Panamon.

Quit with the threats and the manipulations because that is making YOU look like scum.

[mrfixij]

If you want to accuse me, be specific. I can defend against ad hominems all day and it will get both of us nowhere and town nowhere as well. If you think I'm scum, then give the rest of us something specific to work with. Calling me too helpful is an over-generalization, taking every post I have and applying a single adjective to them all. It's a fallacy.

You say right now you're waiting for QM to post, because you think Panamon was scummy. Well, I haven't seen anything cited to make him look scummy, aside from the very metagame opener. I wouldn't see that as vote hopping if you switched your vote to QM based on 70% gut and 30% cited fact. If you said it's because Panamon was scummy, and left it at that, you're committing a fallacy again. You're using instinct in place of logic and creating a circular argument, he's scummy because he's scummy.

This is a newbie game, we're all going to make newbie mistakes. I already have. The point is to pick up on those and correct them when possible. Even if you're not targeting me, we need some more action around here. Get nitpicky and call people out on small things. Turn something small into something big, so that we'll get some more material out there.

You call my tactics threats and manipulations. I call them ways to open up the game and get some REAL content on the table.

[Crysnia]

Call them what you want, you threatened me when I said you were suspicious. It is day one, there is always very little to go on for day one. I am waiting for QuestionMark and that is that. Take it for what it is. After day one, then we can gleam some real information about who voted and why and how. Right now, you can claim to bring real content to the table but all you can bring is speculation and "gut" feelings also.

[mrfixij]

I'm trying to just nip problems in the bud is all. I know what I see, but when people say they're suspicious of someone without something to back it up, that triggers a little alarm on me. Both you and orange are suspicious of panamon/QM. Both of you have been posting relatively infrequently (although you've done a good job after that prod) and have been posting rather little information with either unbacked suspicion or no content at all.

As it is, I'd like to address one thing with you. In your third post, you mention our intent to lynch Mastin. You keep your vote on Panamon, and explain why. However, there's a section afterwards that strikes me as odd.

So here is what I suggest. If you guys lynch Mastin and he ends up mafia, then start zeroing in on those that didn't vote for him in hopes of catching the other mafia. But if he ends up innocent, I believe that those three people that quickly voted for him need to be fast tracked to the top of the possible mafia list.

If we were to lynch him and he turns up scum, you would be one of those that we would be suspecting by your own accord. That seems rather... counterproductive, but serving town well enough, since as I've said before, town's first priority is to lynch scum, and a distant second priority is to stay alive.

However, what if we lynch him and he turns up town? Your statement implies that we should look to the people who did vote for him as scum. This creates a WIFOM game, where if we assume you to be scum, then you would be able to confuse us so. I think I understand what you meant when you said the above quote, but I'd still like a clarification or your thoughts.

Also, Mastin, I'd like you to post the strategy that you still insist on withholding.

Also, Moses, Orange, and WC, I'd like to see some more content or an opinion from you all. Maybe something from Spring, since she's been quiet recently too.

[WeatheredClown]

holy cow..

Crysnia

.. I totally forgot we had somebody else in the game...

So if Crysnia is scum and is very happy with the people that we've been selecting so far, then that would be very interesting.

So at this point, I'd really like some more actual information. I'm not advocating for a speed lynch at this point, but I would like everybody to have a vote here and a reason for it.

I've voted for maston because at best we'll hit scum, and at worst, he's a terrible distraction and a convenient scapegoat that we'd probably be better off without at this point.

So let's recap for everybody's benefit since the thread has been a bit rambly. Could everybody else susinctly explain their vote if they have one, and if not.. look through the thread and pick somebody and back it up with a reason. There's a ton of information here amongst everyone's comments.. except for the people who haven't commented, and there's probably information there as well.

[Moses le fou]

I'm trying to just nip problems in the bud is all. I know what I see, but when people say they're suspicious of someone without something to back it up, that triggers a little alarm on me. Both you and orange are suspicious of panamon/QM. Both of you have been posting relatively infrequently (although you've done a good job after that prod) and have been posting rather little information with either unbacked suspicion or no content at all.

As it is, I'd like to address one thing with you. In your third post, you mention our intent to lynch Mastin. You keep your vote on Panamon, and explain why. However, there's a section afterwards that strikes me as odd.

So here is what I suggest. If you guys lynch Mastin and he ends up mafia, then start zeroing in on those that didn't vote for him in hopes of catching the other mafia. But if he ends up innocent, I believe that those three people that quickly voted for him need to be fast tracked to the top of the possible mafia list.

If we were to lynch him and he turns up scum, you would be one of those that we would be suspecting by your own accord. That seems rather... counterproductive, but serving town well enough, since as I've said before, town's first priority is to lynch scum, and a distant second priority is to stay alive.

However, what if we lynch him and he turns up town? Your statement implies that we should look to the people who did vote for him as scum. This creates a WIFOM game, where if we assume you to be scum, then you would be able to confuse us so. I think I understand what you meant when you said the above quote, but I'd still like a clarification or your thoughts.

Also, Mastin, I'd like you to post the strategy that you still insist on withholding.

Also, Moses, Orange, and WC, I'd like to see some more content or an opinion from you all. Maybe something from Spring, since she's been quiet recently too.

To be honest, I've been watching you tear into everybody and anybody who posts (except for springlullaby), and have been waiting for your constant hopping to either finally stick or reveal your scumminess.

[springlullaby]

@springlullaby: I changed my tone because I think you were wrongly reading too much acquiescence in my other post.

As for lynching me, you want to do it because I broke a rule that wasn't a rule and my posts don't sound properly homogeneous. I think you're grasping. I know it's day one and therefore difficult to get a good read of any particular person, but you've had tunnelvision this entire game. Your suspicion started exactly two pages in. Are you really that convinced?

You know, your 'tunnelvision bit' and 'are you really that convinced' question is pinging some, because you do know my alignment in C9++.

But to answer you, I actually like how you explained the change in your tone.

Unvote: Sheherazade.

I'm closing the chapter on the investigation of Mastin comment. I said what I said, people can interpret it as they want. I do believe that discussion around Mastin is futile.

I'm mixed about mrfixij, he does seem to be jumping around a bit but what works for him is that he is pretty vocal, and there is a kind of confident quality to his posts. In any case, mrfixij, I hope you know that you are ultimately responsible for your own vote, no excuse to it. What I note is that he has avoided the Panamon wagon all day, well demonstrating willingness to push for two other wagons.

I don't really like the wagon on Panamon, he hasn't posted a lot, and I'm not sure I understand the points against him. What do seem bizare is the total lack of post from QuestionMark, but I'm not sure that could be considered a scumtell.

So

Prod: QuestionMark please

What I don't like is the insistent tone of Crysnia in calling Panamon scum.

Vote: Crysnia

Can you please to the best of your ability explain why you think Panamon is scum?

[Crysnia]

FOS: Mastin

This is newbie mafia, what strategy could you possibly have?

No vote yet.

You can not like my tone all you want. I have already explained myself. I am not the only one who called Panamon scum. But anyway, pointing the finger at someone else and not voting comes off as scummy.

I also think it is very odd that as soon as Moses calls out Mr.fixij, you try to turn everything around on me in an effort to pull attention away from your buddy.

[vollkan]

I prodded Question over 48 hours ago. He has not picked up the PM. I am now seeking another replacement

[vollkan]

Many many thanks to Battle Mage who henceforth replaces QuestionMark

[Battle Mage]

Hey guys. Hope you don't mind me coming along for the ride.

I've only read the first page, and already I know where my vote is going.

Vote: Mrfixjj

And erm...why am i at -2? 0.o

BM