Mini Normal 2267 | Music Hits of 2010-2014 | GAME OVER

[Andante]

if you want to go ask mod role questions, just call it a hypothetical question… “if I were x, what would happen”
but literally please stop with all this mod talk.. it’s actually annoying to read all this “go ask mod” “mod said” like… JUST PLAY THE GAME…

[MalcolmTucker]

Am I the only one that is struggling with this? The contents of the message received by the target of the Friendly Neighbor do not come from the Friendly Neighbor. That’s literally never the case. It cannot be.

Can someone find an example of a game with a Friendly Neighbor and look at the Mod PT? I’m a bit tired of this conversation.

I think It's a waste of time,The only way this is fabricated is if they are both scum...

I don't see it..

if you want to go ask mod role questions, just call it a hypothetical question… “if I were x, what would happen”
but literally please stop with all this mod talk.. it’s actually annoying to read all this “go ask mod” “mod said” like…

JUST PLAY THE GAME

…

That's what we're doing! All the discussion is perfectly legit and centred around trying to find mafia...what's your view on it?

[MalcolmTucker]

i often take a backseat in games

like i dunno what to say sometimes i'm generally not interested in some of the minutia that goes on in games

here's where i'm at

geraintm

my problem with ger is the same as scorpius- they complained about d1 being all bad and stuff and then come in with a lackluster performance on d2. that doesn't necessarily mean anything AI though, it's just a little annoying that they made a big stink about D1 sucking and aren't able to solve the game D2.

Galron

i'm wary of galron, i think galron doesn't do much when galron is scum and i dunno what galron has done this game.

Rathe

UGh

MalcolmTucker

Im a little wary of malcolmtucker but i can't really explain why, it just seems like they're not townie just a gut thing

Scorpious

i think it's entirely possible they're a town mailman, but the friendly neighbor information does make me wary. i think they're town based on play though.

Andresvmb

annoying but probably town

Morning Tweet/Andante

I still think the not_mafia suspicion is bad and could have been an easy push. Andante has done nothing to convince me this slot is town.

angela

I just still think this slot is town. i'm not sure i love the ATE and the appeal to experience going on but it certainly could come from town, and the outing of the FN seems like a town thing not a scum thing to do.

Nero Cain

I agree with the sentiment that town nero tends to lead the game more so i'm a little worried about nero being scum this game. i don't really remember anything nero has done all game.

Save The Dragons

That's me!

KittyTacky

FN is believable

I like dragons reads. Dragons seems towny!!!

ok gg. 1 read a day... read for today is done

Going back to STD's reads...agree with others that they're very, very dull and don't say all that much at all. Almost feels like a bot has generated a bunch of reads based on general stuff players have said so far. There's nothing in there that is inherently terrible or bad, but it very much feels like a big post that doesn't have that much detail anyway. Andante's firm approval for it seems a bit odd either way.

[angela]

Am I the only one that is struggling with this? The contents of the message received by the target of the Friendly Neighbor do not come from the Friendly Neighbor. That’s literally never the case. It cannot be.

Can someone find an example of a game with a Friendly Neighbor and look at the Mod PT? I’m a bit tired of this conversation.

i can go find one in normal archive give me a few minutes

possibly just kidding

these are the three most recent games with a friendly neighbour i found

and none of them have a mod pt:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=71353

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=80934

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=75496

[Andresvmb]

Am I the only one that is struggling with this? The contents of the message received by the target of the Friendly Neighbor do not come from the Friendly Neighbor. That’s literally never the case. It cannot be.

Can someone find an example of a game with a Friendly Neighbor and look at the Mod PT? I’m a bit tired of this conversation.

I think It's a waste of time,The only way this is fabricated is if they are both scum...

I don't see it..

If I point you to a game where the Scum played a gambit where a Scum player claimed to be a Friendly Neighbor, and roped in another member of their Team as the recipient of the message, will you stop this? I have directly said that I have seen this used a gambit between members of Scum. You are getting all upset that folks don’t believe your claim of mailman, but then when another claim is scrutinized, you’re choosing to accept it at face value. Why, I don’t know.

[Scorpious]

Am I the only one that is struggling with this? The contents of the message received by the target of the Friendly Neighbor do not come from the Friendly Neighbor. That’s literally never the case. It cannot be.

Can someone find an example of a game with a Friendly Neighbor and look at the Mod PT? I’m a bit tired of this conversation.

I think It's a waste of time,The only way this is fabricated is if they are both scum...

I don't see it..

If I point you to a game where the Scum played a gambit where a Scum player claimed to be a Friendly Neighbor, and roped in another member of their Team as the recipient of the message, will you stop this? I have directly said that I have seen this used a gambit between members of Scum. You are getting all upset that folks don’t believe your claim of mailman, but then when another claim is scrutinized, you’re choosing to accept it at face value. Why, I don’t know.

Yes,I'll shut up. I have no buisness being involved in big brain plays... No sarcasm at all..

[angela]

Am I the only one that is struggling with this? The contents of the message received by the target of the Friendly Neighbor do not come from the Friendly Neighbor. That’s literally never the case. It cannot be.

Can someone find an example of a game with a Friendly Neighbor and look at the Mod PT? I’m a bit tired of this conversation.

I think It's a waste of time,The only way this is fabricated is if they are both scum...

I don't see it..

if it's a fabricated friendly neighbour message its very likely you/kittytacky

or there was a town mailman and a mafia mailman and a mafia roleblocker

and the mafia roleblocker blocked you and the mafia mailman sent me a fabricated friendly neighbour message

but that seems extremely unlikely as even the first option seems pretty unlikely to me

[MalcolmTucker]

Am I the only one that is struggling with this? The contents of the message received by the target of the Friendly Neighbor do not come from the Friendly Neighbor. That’s literally never the case. It cannot be.

Can someone find an example of a game with a Friendly Neighbor and look at the Mod PT? I’m a bit tired of this conversation.

I think It's a waste of time,The only way this is fabricated is if they are both scum...

I don't see it..

If I point you to a game where the Scum played a gambit where a Scum player claimed to be a Friendly Neighbor, and roped in another member of their Team as the recipient of the message, will you stop this? I have directly said that I have seen this used a gambit between members of Scum. You are getting all upset that folks don’t believe your claim of mailman, but then when another claim is scrutinized, you’re choosing to accept it at face value. Why, I don’t know.

This is making me unsure on Scorpious. On the one hand I doubt there are two incredibly similar town roles (although nothing rules it out as such I guess?) But if Kitty's telling the truth that would make Scorpious mafia, and I don't see why scum Scorpious doesn't push this a lot more? Angela's explanation of this on the last page was a bit of a mess and felt all over the place in a way that was making me wonder if it could somehow be a fabricated claim after all this.

The only other option is maybe that Scorpious assumes they're going to go, and would rather end the turn soonish for damage limitation for mafia. They did suggest self-hammering if they were at the point of going out...

[angela]

a bit of a mess and felt all over the place

this is simply a very accurate description of my existence

[Andresvmb]

viewtopic.php?p=11259478#p11259478

[MalcolmTucker]

a bit of a mess and felt all over the place

this is simply a very accurate description of my existence

Will be incredibly funny in a grimly annoying way if turns out these are both separate town roles in the game and we're fretting over nothing here.

[angela]

viewtopic.php?p=11259478#p11259478

oh you found it didn't see it linked at end game, my bad

[Scorpious]

Am I the only one that is struggling with this? The contents of the message received by the target of the Friendly Neighbor do not come from the Friendly Neighbor. That’s literally never the case. It cannot be.

Can someone find an example of a game with a Friendly Neighbor and look at the Mod PT? I’m a bit tired of this conversation.

I think It's a waste of time,The only way this is fabricated is if they are both scum...

I don't see it..

if it's a fabricated friendly neighbour message its very likely you/kittytacky

pedit- I think there might be multiples to cause this exact reaction.

or there was a town mailman and a mafia mailman and a mafia roleblocker

and the mafia roleblocker blocked you and the mafia mailman sent me a fabricated friendly neighbour message

but that seems extremely unlikely as even the first option seems pretty unlikely to me

But I sent you a message, and that wasn't it..

[Andresvmb]

viewtopic.php?p=11259478#p11259478

oh you found it didn't see it linked at end game, my bad

Look at the structure of the message that is sent in the Role PMs that are spoilered. You will notice that it is clearly missing any indication that the content of the message comes from another player. That’s the fundamental distinction.

[Scorpious]

Am I the only one that is struggling with this? The contents of the message received by the target of the Friendly Neighbor do not come from the Friendly Neighbor. That’s literally never the case. It cannot be.

Can someone find an example of a game with a Friendly Neighbor and look at the Mod PT? I’m a bit tired of this conversation.

I think It's a waste of time,The only way this is fabricated is if they are both scum...

I don't see it..

if it's a fabricated friendly neighbour message its very likely you/kittytacky

pedit- I think there might be multiples to cause this exact reaction.

or there was a town mailman and a mafia mailman and a mafia roleblocker

and the mafia roleblocker blocked you and the mafia mailman sent me a fabricated friendly neighbour message

but that seems extremely unlikely as even the first option seems pretty unlikely to me

But I sent you a message, and that wasn't it..

sorry, just clarifying this as I totally messed it up. the pedit is me.

[Rathe]

UNVOTE: scorpius

[angela]

viewtopic.php?p=11259478#p11259478

oh you found it didn't see it linked at end game, my bad

"PMysterious targets Vorkuta; Vorkuta is notified that PMysterious is town"

this seems to work like you described

which i was not notified that kittytacky is town

i got a message

and the message said kittytacky town

[Greeting]

Given that there is a lot of speculation regarding how roles work in this game, I allowed myself to copy-paste part of the response I sent to one of the players earlier (please note that this version is altered).

This is a closed setup. This means that, in general, the whole of players are not informed of any special roles existing in the game. On start, the players only know the roles they get themselves. A player's knowledge of the setup should only expand as the game progresses and, for instance, flips happen. If someone has special abilities in this game, for instance an investigative role, they may sometimes get to uncover a carefully rationed bit of the game's set-up (with exceptions, obviously). If someone has a non-investigative role, they could influence the knowledge of others. Et cetera, et cetera.

I believe that if I were to address any speculation regarding the way roles in general are supposed to work in this game, it could create the impression that the particular role I am talking about exists in the game and having done so, possibly influence the course of the game. I think that this would be unacceptable for me to do as a mod. I cannot confirm or deny the existence of any roles or the validity of any role claims made in the course of this game in any way.

What I can safely say is that this is a

Normal setup

and it has been reviewed positively in terms of normalcy by two reviewers of the

NRG (Normal Review Group)

.

If you have any questions regarding this, now is the time to ask them, otherwise they will have to wait until tomorrow afternoon (that is, morning for U.S. timezones). There is no harm in asking, if I feel like providing the answer is not detrimental to the integrity of the game I will answer it.

[angela]

viewtopic.php?p=11259478#p11259478

oh you found it didn't see it linked at end game, my bad

"PMysterious targets Vorkuta; Vorkuta is notified that PMysterious is town"

this seems to work like you described

which i was not notified that kittytacky is town

i got a message

and the message said kittytacky town

but this course of events does match the description on the wiki

and looking at games in the archive, i do not think normal games are standardized even though they probably should be

[Greeting]

I don't see any questions regarding my last announcement so I'm off for the night.

[angela]

viewtopic.php?p=11259478#p11259478

oh you found it didn't see it linked at end game, my bad

Look at the structure of the message that is sent in the Role PMs that are spoilered. You will notice that it is clearly missing any indication that the content of the message comes from another player. That’s the fundamental distinction.

viewtopic.php?f=94&t=81561

this is mod pt from recent-ish mini normal with a mailman

and it is very difficult for me to see the fundamental distinction

as both would be presented as messages devoid of who from

i got a message, contents of that message were kittytacky town

[angela]

can't really do all that much better than that description wise

seems likely kittytacky is a friendly neighbour

i remain not 100% sure of this

that's where i'm at

[MalcolmTucker]

Again I'm still fundamentally not getting how we can be unsure whether Kitty is neighbour or not if you received a message informing you of this from them. And if you were uncertain, why the immediate trust for their claim at the start of D2 vs distrust of Scorpious? You both seem to absolutely be trusting Kitty's claim while also admitting there's nothing which says it is definitively town?

[angela]

Again I'm still fundamentally not getting how we can be unsure whether Kitty is neighbour or not if you received a message informing you of this from them. And if you were uncertain, why the immediate trust for their claim at the start of D2 vs distrust of Scorpious? You both seem to absolutely be trusting Kitty's claim while also admitting there's nothing which says it is definitively town?

a) i do not know they actually sent it, though scorpious did not unless scorpious is also a ninja,
b) already explained that the paranoia creeped in later, and if you go back and read through the day you can see when that happened, as i stated it pretty much immediately after it happened
c) i became uncertain but it still seems notably more likely than not to me

[angela]

also it does not say the message is from kittytacky, but neither of those abilities would