Large Normal 238 | Weiqi, Baduk, Go | Endgame

[DeasVail]

VOTE: Scorpious

[Scorpious]

VOTE: Scorpious

There we go..

[MathBlade]

Tene,Frog, traitor April..

Scorpious how do you think DV is scum here?

[April Ludgate]

Day 6-
Math coming off really awkward today
Frogster seems to be the preferred lim for people today, slot doesn't look good.
Scorpius is looking towny compared to when I played against them as scum.
April looks townie so far
Other slots look meh, lots of talk from my predecessor.
I'm not willing to vote for StD today because of my result. I'll look for context but we can do better.

I’d appreciate you fixing your impressions as I am literally conf town unless you want to argue I am fake claiming mason.

just let them read you naturally, it's fine if they dont see it, would have liked to see them continue going.

[April Ludgate]

can always tell em afterwards, not like you'd be in trouble.

[April Ludgate]

I think Eyes/Azumarill is probably town. That 4-shot Follower claim followed by Azumarill's entrance is townie to me right now.

But Azumarill, if scum, could have just come in well, so that's subject to change as we move forward, but liking what I'm seeing so far.

Still thinking Frog/Scorp, atm.

[April Ludgate]

VOTE: Frogster

For VPB.

[MathBlade]

I think Eyes/Azumarill is probably town. That 4-shot Follower claim followed by Azumarill's entrance is townie to me right now.

But Azumarill, if scum, could have just come in well, so that's subject to change as we move forward, but liking what I'm seeing so far.

Still thinking Frog/Scorp, atm.

How do you explain town power?

[April Ludgate]

I think Eyes/Azumarill is probably town. That 4-shot Follower claim followed by Azumarill's entrance is townie to me right now.

But Azumarill, if scum, could have just come in well, so that's subject to change as we move forward, but liking what I'm seeing so far.

Still thinking Frog/Scorp, atm.

How do you explain town power?

Follower sways very little. i see minimal between a 4-shot Follower and a Fruit Vendor or VT.

That's also how it could be scum, regardless, I think Azumarill is going to be giving more content than Frogster at this point in the game, and I think Frogster is likely just scum.

[MathBlade]

I think Eyes/Azumarill is probably town. That 4-shot Follower claim followed by Azumarill's entrance is townie to me right now.

But Azumarill, if scum, could have just come in well, so that's subject to change as we move forward, but liking what I'm seeing so far.

Still thinking Frog/Scorp, atm.

How do you explain town power?

Follower sways very little. i see minimal between a 4-shot Follower and a Fruit Vendor or VT.

That's also how it could be scum, regardless, I think Azumarill is going to be giving more content than Frogster at this point in the game, and I think Frogster is likely just scum.

I disagree.

I think Scorpious or Eyes are a better vote

Please explain why your vote is better than DV’s?

I think you are traitor and defending Meg does little to improve that.

DV is conf town fypov or at least not group scum why not work DV?

[April Ludgate]

They're all fine votes. Why does everything have to be better?

i would town read even if they werent TA'd.

Idk why you're acting like I town read Scorp.

I've been calling Scorp scum a while, that's definitely a fine vote.

However, even after a win, even if Frogster is town, post game, I still think Frogster should have been faded instead of Cape.

And I will continue pushing it.

Frogster actively stirred the VPB-Cape-Nero pot. If Tene is town, which I'm starting to read them as, Frogster also took the TvT approach with Malcolm/Tene way back when.

When VPB cases Nero and Frogster, I actively thought his Frogster case was far superior than his Nero one.

And ever since the VPB flip, Frogster has checked out of the game, likely because they're stuck in a position where if they take more action, they'll actively be spreading more threads to tie them back to partners.

You're also talking to me like my exact solve wasn't Frogster/Scorp/Eyes a few pages ago. I actively stated I wanted to go back and read Eyes because I wasn't aware that was Almost50, a player I can read better than anyone else can, and Azumarill is actively talking and doing things, so I'm fine letting that sit.

[April Ludgate]

I'm also not keen on having to wait 3 game days to fade Frogster.

[April Ludgate]

Scorp's in a position where if they are scum, they're already compromised. Frog is stealthing out as scum, and night kills will begin to help shape the game against a Frogster fade.


@DV - Scorpious scum isn't getting away this game, can we go Frogster today?

Gives us time to read Azumarill more, and Scorpious can keep digging the trench they're in.

[April Ludgate]

@Scorpious - you've been wanting Frogster, why have you been avoiding voting there now that pressure has alleviated on him?

[MathBlade]

Scorp's in a position where if they are scum, they're already compromised. Frog is stealthing out as scum, and night kills will begin to help shape the game against a Frogster fade.


@DV - Scorpious scum isn't getting away this game, can we go Frogster today?

Gives us time to read Azumarill more, and Scorpious can keep digging the trench they're in.

Why Frogger when it’s proven scum want to elim Frogger?

[April Ludgate]

Also, with my most likely scum team being Frog/Scorp/Mega, Frogster's setup in the position the best to get scum to vote their own partner.

+ I want to reevaluate Mega, and let them post for a bit, actually see where their head is at/what actions they take.

[April Ludgate]

Scorp's in a position where if they are scum, they're already compromised. Frog is stealthing out as scum, and night kills will begin to help shape the game against a Frogster fade.


@DV - Scorpious scum isn't getting away this game, can we go Frogster today?

Gives us time to read Azumarill more, and Scorpious can keep digging the trench they're in.

Why Frogger when it’s proven scum want to elim Frogger?

Scum saying they want to elim Frogger is not the same as scum wanting to elim Frogger. Never forget that.

Look at the actions, not the saying.

I just caved yesterday with Cape, and got burned for the exact reason I wanted to do Frog over Cape.

I had reads for a possible TownCape, despite scum reading them, and knew Frogster was the right play yesterday.

I'm in the same position with Frogster-Scorp. Do I scum read Scorp? Yes. I also scum read Cape. Can I see a world where Scorp is town? Yes.

Here's the thing. I can make a town case for every single player in this game.

Scum do townie things, townies do scummy things.



VPB cased Frogster. VPB put a lot of pressure onto Frogster, and because of this, VPB had a heavy amount of pressure on him the entire game.

I was defending VPB left and right, left and right, and there was a time I knew he was town. I had a soul read on him, but then Frogster got in there and played with the gamestate. Frogster actively tried to make it look like him and VPB were SvS. I was the biggest defender of VPB.

And I ended up getting swayed.

I knew I was getting pocketed there. I had a gut town read on Titus, even though I completely laid out the reasonings for her being scum. I accurately called out that exact pocket.



Frogster is the absolute best fade today because he was also the best fade yesterday.

[April Ludgate]

@VPB - Can you do this for your Cape read too?

My main reasons for thinking cape!town are:

- His "case" on me from D2 was so stream of consciousness and poorly formed, I have a hard time seeing scum type that up and being like "yes, this is persuasive!"
- He flipped to town reading me D2 at a point when pushing me would have been a much easier scum play and probably helped secure my lim. He similarly was not sold on Galron at E-2 to E-1 range. Again, I don't see much advantage to this as scum beyond a vague effort toward town points. (though if all three wagons at that point were town, maybe that's a good time to score town points?)
- He didn't really pump up the Nero/VP fight in the hood since early game, and has questioned us both pretty fairly I would say.


I don't think this is a slam dunk town case, but like I said before, PoE points much more to Nero here than Cape. I could be wrong, but Nero's arguments with me all game have been so bad faith it is truly difficult to see him as town. Clearing him on amorphous meta reads ain't really gonna do it for me.

On top of the deep Frogster scum read, Cape-VPB was also an incredibly strong town block.

They knew the other were town, and you could see it in their posts.

Frogster actively shattered this.


To believe Frogster is town, you have to believe:

VPB - Nero - Cape - Frogster Quad is T-T-T-T.

[April Ludgate]

Frogster also pushed Malcolm and Tene as TvT.

That was Frogster pleasing both sides, or protecting Tene by appeasing to Malcolm.

I smelled that scummy scent in Malcolm, based on Frogster's posts.

I turned on my VPB town read because of Frogster's posts.

He has been actively doing things in the background that have effected this game.

My Malcom read might have been wrong, but my sniffer wasn't. I smelled scum, he was just rolling around with the frog.

[April Ludgate]

Fire was also seeing it as Frog/Cape, and he made the mistake of allowing for Cape first as well.

Frogster is scum.

[April Ludgate]

Having an incorrect read is not the same as a terrible read.

correct. His reads are confirm biased and poorly reasoned.

What are your bulletpoint reasonings for FrogsterScum?

- He voted camped Yeet D1 forever until I started pushing him. This is very unusual to me because I just finished a game with Frogster where he was wild ass voting everyone in the game as town with tinfoil theories. Here, he is timid and afraid to move his vote around.
- The only pushes he has made all game have bene Fua/Enchant, Yeet, Galron and myself. I know I'm town. I know Yeet is town. I think it's highly likely Galron is town. Those are the safe bets, too. Not looking good.
- His reasoning around the Galron wagon yesterday does not hold up to scrutiny. (There is a fairly in depth analysis of this in my big post opening the day, and follow up questioning of Frogster today).

This is also a good bullet point scumFrog case from earlier in the game.

His early pushes were Enchant, Yeet, Galron, and VPB.

3 of these are town. Galron has a low chance of Group Scum.

[April Ludgate]

This was a direct meta difference finding by VPB as well who had recently finished playing with a town Frogster.

Frogster is scum, my friends, and has been in the background a while, and look at his position now. He's even been flying underneath the radar and is actively LOSING interest in a wagon on them when the opposite should be true.

The stank on Malcolm was from Frog. We do this for VPB. We do this for Cape. We do this for Malcolm and Fire.

Frogster is scum, the case is strong, he fits with almost any combination of the remaining players.

Vote Frogster.

[MathBlade]

Nah I don’t think so.

I think this game has been a TvT shit fest

[April Ludgate]

This is very unusual to me because I just finished a game with Frogster where he was wild ass voting everyone in the game as town with tinfoil theories. Here, he is timid and afraid to move his vote around.

this started happening more AFTER VPB mentioned this.

[April Ludgate]

Nah I don’t think so.

I think this game has been a TvT shit fest

Okay. Then respectfully, I think you are wrong, and will now continue to push for this wagon through usages of other's votes.