Large Normal 238 | Weiqi, Baduk, Go | Endgame

[Nero Cain]

It shouldn’t be this hard to get opinions on four people in the game.

look at this noob expecting ppl to play mafia in a game of mafia

[Nero Cain]

@ Titus or math or whomever

Frogsterking
Save The Dragons
Nero Cain
DeasVail
fireisredsir
tenebrousluminary
matblade

are the ones that are willing to vote out VP but I think Math wants Boon more than VP, so does STD. Fire will vote VP I think but wants titus? more

Scorpious-??? thinks I'm scum I guess
Titus-would vote me over VP even though I'm a town lean
Enchant-thinks I'm a better vote than VP for ??? reason
Galron-????
April Ludgate-said I was maybe scum yesterday for fence sitting
Cape90-thinks im scum b/c I think VP is the scum in the hood
Eyes without a face-thinks we are TvT, still town reading VP for posting a readslist with reasoning on p 24?

i don't really know why Scorp, Titus, Enchant, Cape or April are town reading VP

[Nero Cain]

galron

[Nero Cain]

even if it was a titus/cape/tene/???? I think the deaths of me and VP to get Cape is fine.

[Nero Cain]

but its prob just VP and VP's buddying has worked

[Nero Cain]

^
has killed nothing but town

[Nero Cain]

like VP, even if you want to argue that my read on you is wrong there's no way to know if my "reads are shit" unless you are informed. Like I'm pretty sure you are just caught scum trying to aggravate me.

[Nero Cain]

y?

[Nero Cain]

Wu is dead town

[Nero Cain]

Also, Titus was one that was pushing VPB-Nero as possible TvT, which I can see as a possibility, because Cape can be scum.

not exactly. Eyes is the one calling us TvT while Titus is "town leaning" on me but has voted me/stayed voting me b/c my wagon had "momentum" and said she'd vote me over VP

town is evenly split with half calling VP scum and the other half calling me a better flip or silly junk like that.

[Nero Cain]

You do realize Math that if VP is scum he might know that Gal is town.

[Nero Cain]

I don't really think Frog is scum. Cape and Enchant could be scum, I was voting Enchant earlier.

[Nero Cain]

whelp, Fire keeps VP alive for another day.

[Nero Cain]

It's pretty incredible how impossible it is to elim VP this game, though.

I'm actually astonish math is tanking his own wagon. The town in this game is so fucked between math and Nero.

I’m not?

Omg I just noticed that he's implying Nero town again in this post. VP reeks of someone who knows going after Nero is a bad look for him but is so tilted he can't stop himself.

what a man child

[Nero Cain]

At the risk of VP coming @ me with another lvl 1 take "Arggg, Nero is backing off of me!", yells the petty lvl 1. 6113 is pretty awful and if he's town that thinks I'm town that's just playing so poorly then thats like shit play from him. Also, I'm not the one that's killing up a bunch of town. but it does look like...kind of a slip.

but anyways...and I actually said this yesterday, if me and VP were actually a TvT I could see something like a

titus, fire, boon, ???? team that's wanting to keep the 1v1 between us going. Or maybe he's just scum anyways.

Also, notice how Boon goes from "yeah Titus is scum" to "titus is town" for ????? reasoning

[Nero Cain]

but agree that this thread is getting mildly toxic and out of hand.

[Nero Cain]

Also, I don't like the Nero vote I am on right now tbh

y not? did u stop thinking I was scum?

[Nero Cain]

so i was trying to appeal to you d2 and that made you scumread me day 3?

[Nero Cain]

in fairness, 1v1 shit fights happen all the time our actions have very little to do with our alignment. It's our reasoning that matters.

[Nero Cain]

I never switched to you cape....

[Nero Cain]

I think VP is the scum in the hood. This is not fucking rocket science, cape

[Nero Cain]

then why have you killed more town then I have this game?

the problem with this argument is literally... we all have right? Like there are no flipped mafia right now

killing town=//=not haveing flipped mafia

GeneralWu (10): tenebrousluminary, fireisredsir, Yeet, Save The Dragons, VP Baltar, humaneatingmonkey, Datisi, MathBlade, fua, Cape90

MalcolmTucker (9): Eyes without a face, Yeet, April Ludgate, Scorpious, Galron, VP Baltar, Titus, fireisredsir, MathBlade

^
our town killers

vp, math, fire, titus have been on both town wagons.

[Nero Cain]

i mean you are conf town and I know you were doing it just to end the day but yea

[Nero Cain]

oh noes I made an error, so scummy of me.

[Nero Cain]

don't know if you know this, but I have seen mafia consistently love being completely off wagon a good chunk of the time

not my point. You were saying that we've all killed town and I was correcting you.

I mean, VP thinks my sole reason for scum reading him is that he was on both ML wagons. But most of what he says is laughable.

[Nero Cain]

Are you even reading this thread?

[Nero Cain]

Nero: VP think I'm scum reading him for X
cape: He has other reasons

????

[Nero Cain]

It's also hard taking you seriously Nero when you also have said this

it's hard to take me seriously when I point out an objective fact? Yes or no has VP been on both town MLs?

[Nero Cain]

like you aren't wrong that mafia avoid wagons and/or are useless with their vote but you can't just discredit the possible scum motivation of being on a ML by going "oh we've all done it" when that's not true.

[Nero Cain]

you've won an argument that I wasn't even making. great job guy

[Nero Cain]

I was saying that VP (probably) thinks the reason that I'm scum reading him b/c I think he's scum that was on both ML's. It had nothing to do with HIS reasons for voting ME.

and your counter was he has other reasons.

[Nero Cain]

there's also other big one fmpov where in the hood he was telling you or Gal that the reason he was getting ran up is b/c "people didn't like his attitude." but like Fir and tene? were scumreading him for other things.

[Nero Cain]

its late lets just all go to bed. night

[Nero Cain]

not sure why you suspect me, Fire

[Nero Cain]

not sure why you suspect me, Fire

the gamestate doesn't really make sense to me if vp is maf so im considering other possibilities

but idk if any of those possibilities really make any more sense

talk to me about how you see the gamestate and how a scum VP doesn't make sense. Why were you voting VP if you thought he didn't make sense as scum? How do you go from Nero is ++++town for scum reading Titus to voting me?

[Nero Cain]

i mean you can hammer, fire

[Nero Cain]

and a few of the reasons that others sr you to be more convincing

vps case on me was and always will be trash. It's possible he's just this bad but I think he's just scum faking shit.

Enchant hasn't given a reason to why he thinks I'm a better flip than VP or why he thinks VP is town nor did he even try to vote me.

April was pushing me yesterday that I was scum for fence-sitting but when pressed had nothing.

Skitter was pushing the same nonsense day 1 that I didn't have a reason to change my Wu read or that I can't.

Titus doesn't really have a reason and is even "leaning town" on me.

So what are these "convincing" reasons?

[Nero Cain]

oh scorp voted me earlier b/c I was scum that was "flooding" the thread and Frog will suspect me if VP flips town b/c I'm "experienced"

[Nero Cain]

11th hour Nero CW, not suspicious at all

[Nero Cain]

then ur bad

[Nero Cain]

FTR I have reason to think you are town unless you are scum with a certain person but your vote is bad and the fact that you don't care about being bad is just horrible.

[Nero Cain]

thats hardly what I said but mock all you want...

[Nero Cain]

I like how your reads change based on who is pushing you and who you think you can get to do your bidding aka frog

[Nero Cain]

"when Nero flipz town just ignore the hood"

what a scummy ass post.

[Nero Cain]

bc i know you think confidence is towny and expressing doubt gets scumread, and that you act accordingly.

naw that's really butchering what I said.

I told Greeting that a lot of players do see confidence as towny and doubt as scummy but I never said that I specifically try to follow this strat

[Nero Cain]

stop blaming everything on Math. He's not the only one that felt like there's scum in the hood.

[Nero Cain]

bc i know you think confidence is towny and expressing doubt gets scumread, and that you act accordingly.

naw that's really butchering what I said.

I told Greeting that a lot of players do see confidence as towny and doubt as scummy but I never said that I specifically try to follow this strat

i mean based on my reads of your games it looked to me like you kinda do

how dare I be confident while also knowing that confidence is what is mainly townread. But also I'm like not always confident and get pushed for fence-sitting all the fucking time.

[Nero Cain]

hey, you skitter and cape were also pushing that there was scum in the hood as was everyone but dats

[Nero Cain]

if VP scumflips we need to think about fire and Enchant flipz too. Titus is still scummy and Boon doesn't get a pass for bussing.

[Nero Cain]

even if it doesn't at least we'll have one less slot pushing for town ML's

[Nero Cain]

yeet prob should not have claimed d2

[Nero Cain]

I mean we were both scum reading Skitter but also scum reading each other. I think if we had gotten Skitter then we might have stopped scum reading each other. Between the 2 of us we were scumreading the whole scum team.

[Nero Cain]

man I wish yeet had never investigated Skitter

[Nero Cain]

i might just be very stingy with my claims, but i def would not have

no idea what is correct tho, and i understand doing it

I think it was a judgment call. The fact that he had 2 shots left makes me think he shouldn't have done it though I deff understand why he thought that it was a likely inno on Skitter/Galron and was maybe worried that he'd look bad @ claim time if he didn't speak up.

also a little confused why I was shot. I think scum could have still got me with a bunch of bad town pushing me and my claim might sound suspicious considering that I wasn't on HEM n1.

[Nero Cain]

I mean BP isn't a hard guilty or anything though I guess you could outguess the mod and argue that it made sense for a traitor to be BP. But I think you could also argue that making scum unable to accidentally kill their traitor is a huge safety net and maybe not a great setup design, idk.

[Nero Cain]

but STD also auto dies when all the team scum was killed.

[Nero Cain]

well that's true

[Nero Cain]

honestly? I don't feel like town was really that powerful. I mean it COULD be more powerful than I think it is and it just looks not very powerful b/c 3 of our 4 most powerful roles got outted d1. The TA was made more powerful b/c the hood was outted and she avoided the 3 false positives. Psychologist seems sorta useless. doc might be more powerful than it really was b/c I was shit with my actions.

agree with Boon that 5 scum made scum pretty powerful.

[Nero Cain]

large's also might be pro scum in a way, like in a mini only like 4 or 5 players have to work together whereas in a large that 4 or 5 isn't going to do much and there are many more voices all competing and there's going to be much more swing in the day phase.

[Nero Cain]

hi Fua. I missed you after you replaced out.

[Nero Cain]

Psychologist seems sorta useless

i take this back, just not super powerful.

so town had a negative utility role, an investigation role that could get 3 false positives and a false negative, another investigation role with diminishing returns, a gated doc, and 2 conf town.

2 shot vig provides some swing and is a pretty powerful role regardless but could have negatively impacted town but was a conditional IC.

So it's not like town was some superpowered entity.

I could maybe see where scum argues that none of the PRs were limable and their lim pool was the 7 non PRS (I'm counting cape)

I don't think this is townsided at all. Maybe it's pretty balanced on paper but for town there's going to be alot of human error and bad play.

[Nero Cain]

agree with you that Dats is scum MVP. This might have just been over d2 when there was a quasi inno on your slot.