Mini Normal 2271 - Game Over

[Cat Scratch Fever]

VC 1.07

With 13 players, it takes 7 to make a decision. Day 1 ends in (expired on 2022-04-25 00:30:00).

VC

Flavor Leaf [2]:

Malakittens [26], humaneatingmonkey [265]

humaneatingmonkey [2]:

Flavor Leaf [273], ItalianoVD [340]

Malakittens [1]:

Roden [70]

KittyTacky [1]:

Scorpious [6]

Not Known 15 [1]:

JacksonVirgo [138]

JacksonVirgo [1]:

koopashell [324]

ItalianoVD [1]:

KittyTacky [364]

Not voting [4]:

MalcolmTucker, Facebones, Saladman27, Not Known 15 [149]

mod notes

Saladman27 has (expired on 2022-04-16 15:00:00) to pick up their Role PM before I start looking for a replacement.

flavor

Spoiler: never fails to cheer me up

[JacksonVirgo]

I believe that Human is attempting a White Knight pocket attempt on Italiano to lower my presence in the game as scum.

It isn't a chainsaw.

What's a chainsaw? I saw that mentioned twice now

Player A (Town) pushes Player B (Scum).

Player C (Scum) pushes Player A. <--- that's the chainsaw. They defend their partner by attacking the one thats pushing their partner.

Don't see how this is typically scum!AI either in and of itself, Town who thinks that a case on somebody to be manipulative or overall opportunistic etc would do the same.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Searching for a replacement for Saladman27, who failed to pick up his role pm

[Flavor Leaf]

I believe that Human is attempting a White Knight pocket attempt on Italiano to lower my presence in the game as scum.

It isn't a chainsaw.

What's a chainsaw? I saw that mentioned twice now

Player A (Town) pushes Player B (Scum).

Player C (Scum) pushes Player A. <--- that's the chainsaw. They defend their partner by attacking the one thats pushing their partner.

Don't see how this is typically scum!AI either in and of itself, Town who thinks that a case on somebody to be manipulative or overall opportunistic etc would do the same.

You gotta look at the timing of it.

Chainsawing is one of the most common tactics for scum.

If he’s town, it’s not a chainsaw.

[Flavor Leaf]

I have a section on it in my scum guide.

[Flavor Leaf]

If you are scum with Human, then what you are doing would be considered Hatcheting, also talked about in the guide.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Searching for a replacement for Saladman27, who failed to pick up his role pm

He has confirmed and will be keeping his slot in the game

Carry on!

[Saladman27]

What a horrible and embarassing start to my first game in 2 years. There's so much I've forgotten and now I'm under information overload because I got my role PM just as I lost signal on the way to camping. I promise I'll take a good read over this whole thread in the next 2 days.

[humaneatingmonkey]

With Italians, it’s mostly been a lot of their stuff looks like it’s been said just to be said rather than them thinking it, almost like a “make the townie convince me they’re town” kinda strategy.

I guess I don’t see Italiano’s reasoning as complex. Looks pretty weak reasoning for the most part.

Almost looks like they wanted you to feel that ease off of them so you’ll town read them.

Flavor Leaf how do you play as town

[humaneatingmonkey]

my day is over

im supposed to do a wall or something

this playstyle is just too painful

[MalcolmTucker]

I'm not hating Koopa mafia reads at the moment - for a while felt their play had a townie vibe to it but does feel like they picked up Flavor's read on Italiano and decided to run on it very quickly. I largely TR Flavor so far but despite their own read on Koopa not convinced this is two townies who were agreeing with each other here.

Koopa is posting a lot but as was mentioned feels very quick to change opinion...case of someone who seems to both have ultra strong reads early on but who'll change those reads on a whim.

[MalcolmTucker]

I'm not really understanding HEM's early progression on Koopa in going from a mafia read to a TR. Feels a bit manufactured, if HEM is mafia they perhaps felt a push wasn't going to be sustainable for whatever reason and backed away from it. I don't think Koopa's style has particularly change from immediate early game to now in a way that would substantially alter your read of them at all.

[humaneatingmonkey]

alright Flavor I think you're galaxy braining a lot of these crackpot theories and calling everything scum because you feel awkward that you're not in an active position

i think you forced that italianovd scumread because it was my impression that your case against Italiano was that he was trying to stay in the sidelines by saying a lot of stuff but not being active

i havent seen any action between the two, just words

With Italians, it’s mostly been a lot of their stuff looks like it’s been said just to be said rather than them thinking it, almost like a “make the townie convince me they’re town” kinda strategy.

this is what you said about italiano and roden

and this is what you said about italiano

If anything, Italiano's attempt to link the two of us together, throwing those feelers out there, is the most action I've seen taken, and thats subtle/soft.

and then, in the course of explaining that read, you switched it up that it's not about being active anymore?

then i asked what moment in the game did you think that italiano passed up an opportunity to make an action, you said some bullshit like this

What have been moments of decisions for you and why do you think Italiano missing that points to him being scum

It just doesnt make sense to me and I think you pulled this from outer space. Help me be oriented.

There hasn't been really too many, not usually is hard action this early. A hard stance by a scum to politically position, a lofty pocket play, a claim gambit.

a vote at a pivotal time.


Technically, you can consider my Italiano vote something thats more hard action, and if you notice, it brought the direction of the game in another direction, which was kind of my purpose all day. i wanted to interact directly more with some slots.

My reads list is almost like a trap to set scum who are potentially town read by me to try to get me to keep town reading them, so i play with that type of thing in mind while still trusting the logic and tone reads.

I think Italiano's linking of Koopa and Myself specifically while leaning town on me is the scummier part of it. Had they scum read me, it would have felt more null to me.

that's not an answer to the question, and it immediately makes me think you're loudly announcing that you're town here
also you backtrack and say that it's not even the activity — it's now suddenly the putting koopa and you against each other?

you also say you're not confident on your Italiano read but you say that you'd have them limmed over anyone else at that point?

i think you are projecting as scum, and you are projecting this onto Italiano.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I'm not really understanding HEM's early progression on Koopa in going from a mafia read to a TR. Feels a bit manufactured, if HEM is mafia they perhaps felt a push wasn't going to be sustainable for whatever reason and backed away from it. I don't think Koopa's style has particularly change from immediate early game to now in a way that would substantially alter your read of them at all.

ask me anything

[MalcolmTucker]

I'm not really understanding HEM's early progression on Koopa in going from a mafia read to a TR. Feels a bit manufactured, if HEM is mafia they perhaps felt a push wasn't going to be sustainable for whatever reason and backed away from it. I don't think Koopa's style has particularly change from immediate early game to now in a way that would substantially alter your read of them at all.

ask me anything

Basically that then - what's your main reason for progression on Koopa from mafia to town? Looking through your ISO and I don't really get it - there's a couple of posts where you say you don't think they're playing how scum acts, but I don't think their play has particularly changed at all from the early game.

[humaneatingmonkey]

You know what, I can see Human doing that to an Italiano town in that scenario if Koopa is also town.

It's almost like hiding behind my Italiano scum read, but here's the thing. Hmm.

Human acted in a way that I thought Italiano would if Italiano was scum, but Italiano just sitting back and letting the wagon happen because what else are they gonna do is a little townie.

OMGUS, I choose you! (even though there is multiple reasons that it isnt actually OMGUS.

VOTE: Humaneating

1: Their initial reason for suspicion was based on facts from a misunderstanding, and only after it was cleared up, did they choose to vote.
2: This happens after Koopa and I both voted onto Italiano, meaning if Koopa/FL is T/T, then scum would definitely need to start breaking this up. This is especially true of Malakittens is also town.
3: Their push is just kinda forced in a way that looks to break up a townblock. Like they came into it with the plan of eventually pushing me, and once we got cleared up and went to diffuse, they chose to vote. That was almost like a desperate act to make sure that the heat of Monk vs FL kept up, and I'm willing to give them the fire.

then then then you chose to misrep what my vote was about when i haven't even told you anything about it?
and then proceeded to throw out mafia theory gunk to imagine that im trying to break up a townblock?

a desperate act on — what — page 8?

you sir are galaxy brain

[humaneatingmonkey]

Basically that then - what's your main reason for progression on Koopa from mafia to town? Looking through your ISO and I don't really get it - there's a couple of posts where you say you don't think they're playing how scum acts, but I don't think their play has particularly changed at all from the early game.

im banking on the idea that koopa is not from this site, and has a different playstyle. his actions have been pro-town so far, in the way that he has explained it, and i can see it.

the "this is more of a do something vote" is something that i dont think would likely come from scum

[MalcolmTucker]

I'm interested in how others perceive Flavor's play here - I'm inclined to think town because I think they're genuinely trying to solve and put necessary pressure on other players, but by the same token they seem skilled enough to approach the game this way as mafia and potentially manage to get away with it. I do find it interesting that they've basically been able to alter the direction of the game with pretty minimal pushback at all beyond those they've suspected.

[MalcolmTucker]

Basically that then - what's your main reason for progression on Koopa from mafia to town? Looking through your ISO and I don't really get it - there's a couple of posts where you say you don't think they're playing how scum acts, but I don't think their play has particularly changed at all from the early game.

im banking on the idea that koopa is not from this site, and has a different playstyle. his actions have been pro-town so far, in the way that he has explained it, and i can see it.

the "this is more of a do something vote" is something that i dont think would likely come from scum

I'm aware we're getting pretty into 4D chess territory here, but presuming Koopa is quite good, is that not an entirely valid strategy as mafia? Plenty of players will make fluff votes early on to appear busy, and a confident player can dismiss that as a random action instead of a more deliberate approach to the game I think.

[humaneatingmonkey]

sure. you can believe that. or you can let it go, townread it for now, go find other scum, and reevaluate later.

[MalcolmTucker]

I’m ready to 1v1 someone who was on a Mala wagon.

Been feeling some scum energy getting pushed into that direction.

Where shall i pounce

Why don't you just do it instead of posturing about it? I've been waiting for you to actually do something like this for a bit now.

Another thing up against this, while I've been pushing the appearance of not doing anything/lurky, if you check my ISO, even though the tone is probably there, I feel like you can see multiple posts of vaguely where my head is at.

I tend to find it better for me not to immediately come in the beginning of the game because I'm someone who can essentially take over by talking a lot, so early games I try to stay in the background until it's time for me to pounce.

You can poke at the kitty, but I got hops and claws.

I also dont mind pulling attention onto me if I need to. I like interacting with people directly.

This does interest me a little - Flavor initially says they don't want to take over the game by talking too much, but since then I'd argue they pretty much have taken over the game. That's not a bad thing if they're in the right because they've helped move things forward and put interesting ideas out there, but it does feel like a very deliberate and quick switch-up in approach. Is it town just latching onto ideas they've developed or mafia perhaps sensing a chance to take control?

[MalcolmTucker]

sure. you can believe that. or you can let it go, townread it for now, go find other scum, and reevaluate later.

Feels like an unnecessarily confrontational post. Why not just directly address what I'm saying instead of passing it off? Your stance on a player changed very quickly and I'm interested to know why.

[MalcolmTucker]

You obviously have made a brief explanation but I don't think it particularly covers the discrepancy all that well.

[MalcolmTucker]

I could be in the wrong but if you're mafia, almost getting the sense you felt like Koppa was playing very town (so this would be genuine for you to say as mafia) to the point where you couldn't keep any pressure there. The progression feels more like a player who absolutely knows Koopa is town instead of just being someone who TR's them a bit as a fellow townie.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I also don't think FL wants me to be town here