Mini 2270: Spring Fling!

[Dunnstral]

Shame you seem to have taken the loss in D&C so hard. It was the worst scumgame I'd played since 2016.

If you're implying that I'm holding a grudge here then try again

[Prism]

If only this was an original thought, or even AI.

A lot of my play as both alignments revolves around taking generalized meta patterns of mine (ex. strategic angling, maximizing EV) and making the argument that they apply to specific situations, thus making me town. I leave it to the town to puzzle out why it doesn't hold true when I am scum, whether for circumstantial differences or intentional tradeoff.

I don't think there's a grudge. I just think you're either scum or town afraid of their own shadow.

[Dunnstral]

If it's not ai all we're left is with you doing nothing after being paired up because you got sick and then making a half-hearted catchup and then arguing with Luke a bit

Saying I'm jumping at my own shadow is disingenuous. There's 3 mafia in this game and they're probably not all unpaired right now.

[Dunnstral]

Do you feel like there is not enough ai info for me to get a good read on you, or do you think I should be able to townread you?

[Prism]

I've been pretty transparent about it. If that's the main thrust of your case beyond using the same argumentative pattern I always use, then sure I guess.

P-Edit: I think I should be null to nulltown.

[Dunnstral]

I disagree, and I think when you try to point to yourself as town in this game all you have come up with so far is meta arguments about how you would play this differently if you were mafia

And the above is not convincing to me

[Prism]

Well, one of us is right or we're both wrong. I guess we'll see how it all shakes out in the end.

[Lukewarm]

Hmm. I am notnsire if I think this is scum theater or not.

If it is, good job guys. It looks fairly natural

[Dunnstral]

Thanks

[Cephrir]

Not sure why dunn scum uses his time this way

[fireisredsir]

Hmm. I am notnsire if I think this is scum theater or not.

If it is, good job guys. It looks fairly natural

this kinda feels like a post that someone makes when they're like "oh right im supposed to be scumreading both of these people i shall comment on this"

and not as much like the kind of post someone makes if they are actually thinking this

[Lukewarm]

Hmm. I am notnsire if I think this is scum theater or not.

If it is, good job guys. It looks fairly natural

this kinda feels like a post that someone makes when they're like "oh right im supposed to be scumreading both of these people i shall comment on this"

and not as much like the kind of post someone makes if they are actually thinking this

I actively want to change my playstyle to one, where I don't put literally all of my thoughts into words in a post, but then whenever I try to do that, I feel like it is met with someone saying it looks like fake thoughts, and then I end up posting the long winded version anyways. Mafia is a hard game.

My thoughts upon reading the back and forth was initially that it looked fairly natural, and it made me question "Do I think that these two people could be partnered."

But on the other hand, I can see the strategic benefit of doing this if they are together. If they think that there is a reasonable chance that Dunn might go down, make themselves look unpartnered to help Prism go the distance.

I flipped back through Dunn's iso to see where this sudden Prism should die train started, and was surpised at how sudden it was. There was shade on Prism early, but not a strong one.

I wouldn't be voting for you right now if that was an option, I'm just skeptical

And then literally nothing else about Prism until the start of this back and forth

I think that the Prism-Andante pair should be the next full pair elimination during the 7 day long phase which happens after both mafia kill somebody and the unpaired player has a chance to replace a partner

Prism major scum vibes, Andante decent equity

And I also feel like there was a decent bit of Dunn's reasoning to push Prism seemed like it was parroting what I was saying as I started talking about why I was scum reading her. Particularly post 1030. Which seems weird since Dunn so far has seemed of the opinion that I am incredibly scummy, and should be killed today. Seeing me make these arguments against Prism, and then him apparently feeling similarly about Prism, but has given no outward indication that that was then being used to think about my alignment.

So, initial reading made me question if they could be scum together, but on further thought, I could see them doing it as a strategic choice.

If it is scum theater, it is good scum theater.

[Prism]

I am not as confident in my ability to read Dunn as Nora is

I am actually at a peak low in confidence right now in general. but i just ugh i dont know. like im being tunneled and it's affecting my read on the game in general. and dunn is one of the few people i feel like i can read and theres just a lot of internal paranoia because of the game state and trying to read dunn.

i have a lot of worries about this read because i struggle with my own thought process a lot of the times. like what's going through my head, i kid you not, is like
dunn has to be scum
what if im pushing dunn because i want to live another day
what if dunn isnt scum and then i die tomorrow because i mislimmed them
no no dunn has to be scum
but dunn could maybe say that as town
what if dunn's meta completely changed
what if im being overconfident
no no dunn is scum
oh wait i could maybe see town dunn saying that
oh my god people are agreeeing with me, so im wrong right
wait but thats not a good metric
agh maybe im overconfident
no dunn is scum

Can someone with meta not from a year ago weigh in on how frequently these seemingly over the top performances are from Noraa as town? This one made me raise my eyebrow a bit.

[Prism]

1030 is fundamentally a different point from your own. You're comparing two specific ways I interacted with you to D&C, and don't care if my broader play differs. From what I can tell, what matters to you is that I guffawed at your scumread on me.

Dunnstral is taking issue with a very specific template of argumentation that was used extensively in D&C. He doesn't really care about what the argument actually contains or concludes, it's the

pattern of argumentation

that he is skeptical of. It doesn't matter what the variables inside the argument are.

[Lukewarm]

Weird that your "gamestate read" ignored all knowledge of the gamestates I actually create, as though I don't sit there and club and choke all life out of the town for weeks on end with tone, fake encouragement, traffic control, etc.

Are you looking for an apology for me taking your post about needing to be away from the game at face value?

Because, if you were scum, you were already locked in. If you had a partner who was either already locked in, or was a lady, they were also good to go for the day. And if Dunn was a partner, I think that he would be someone that you would trust to take care of himself, and at the time that you needed to step away from the game, no one was really scum reading him except Noraa.

So, if you had something happening IRL, I don't think that you would have seen this game as in dire need of you to fix it.

----

I am not sure why you think that I should see you announce that you need to be away from the game, and then you be away from the game, and then I town lock you.

I disagree, and I think when you try to point to yourself as town in this game all you have come up with so far is meta arguments about how you would play this differently if you were mafia

And the above is not convincing to me

1030 feels like a more consise way of saying what I was trying to say 985.

[Prism]

i almost want to say i'd rather we leave out ceph today becuase im going to feel bad about dunn regardless of what they flip. becuase if they flip town, my overconfidence killed them and i die the next day so it's just chaining up town eliminations.

if they flip scum, i also feel bad because they could've been alive at endgame and played an excellent game which would have been completely shattered by me.

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[Prism]

935-1030 comparison is reasonable IMO. Sorry.

[Lukewarm]

I am not as confident in my ability to read Dunn as Nora is

I am actually at a peak low in confidence right now in general. but i just ugh i dont know. like im being tunneled and it's affecting my read on the game in general. and dunn is one of the few people i feel like i can read and theres just a lot of internal paranoia because of the game state and trying to read dunn.

i have a lot of worries about this read because i struggle with my own thought process a lot of the times. like what's going through my head, i kid you not, is like
dunn has to be scum
what if im pushing dunn because i want to live another day
what if dunn isnt scum and then i die tomorrow because i mislimmed them
no no dunn has to be scum
but dunn could maybe say that as town
what if dunn's meta completely changed
what if im being overconfident
no no dunn is scum
oh wait i could maybe see town dunn saying that
oh my god people are agreeeing with me, so im wrong right
wait but thats not a good metric
agh maybe im overconfident
no dunn is scum

Can someone with meta not from a year ago weigh in on how frequently these seemingly over the top performances are from Noraa as town? This one made me raise my eyebrow a bit.

I want to say that I have seen it come from town Noraa before. In particular, similar lines wrt when they are widely scum read. I even started looking through the games that I thought it came from to point you at it, but I am now unable to find it.

@Noraa, do you know of a town game where you made similar posts?

[Prism]

Raise your hand if you have ever felt bad about catching scum through dayplay

[Prism]

I've never once resonated so deeply with Datisi as I did on page 32.

Also Dunnstral 100% had the right POV w/r/t "Substantiate the meta claims" argument y'all wild. If ze's caught Dunn off of the difference before link posts.

I've gone through Dunnstral games previously (circa WH13) and saw virtually no difference on this front. I hated earlier that suddenly softenings/more openness was introduced and still have no clue why the dude is suddenly more open and forthright in every conceivable way.

[Prism]

Datisi after reading post 800 highlighting Dunnstral's 774, which I thought was one of the best posts in the game to date, I will die for you.

I will die for you.

[Bell]

Raise your hand if you have ever felt bad about catching scum through dayplay

‘’)/

[Dunnstral]

yeah marci in shakespeare

[Prism]

Guess it says a lot about me that I have never once felt that in 12 years of play

hahaha welp

[Bell]

I was just joking. But I’ve certainly written a “poor x if they got caught because y”