KTaNE [game over!]

[VP Baltar]

I'm pretty sure VP townreads me because he is literally factionally informed I'm town but okay

This is an insane thing to say. If you want me to scum case you, I can read lots of your posts with bad intent.

I'm trying to right this game state and willing to risk my lim to do it because I think if someone doesn't correct course, we are headed to a very bad game state.

You should take a step back and think about what I would actually gain from approaching the game this way as scum (nothing), and then help me lim mistyx.

So you ask what you'd gain as scum from not trying to lim me

Not getting limmed and not exposing scum as having at least 2 defuses seems like a pretty big win to me?

I point out if you are successful in evading a 1v1 with me that you don't get limmed and that you don't confirm that scum have 2 defusals towards their 4 defusal win con.

Not getting limmed and not exposing scum as having at least 2 defuses seems like a pretty big win to me?

I already would have had two defusals before there was a risk, yeah? This makes no sense.

I don't follow what makes no sense about it

Scum start the game with 1 kill.

I defuse N1.
Scum have 2 kills, kill N1.
I defuse N2.
Scum have 2 kills. Kill N2.
Town ZOMG VP IS SCUM! Lim VP.
Scum kill N3, town worried rest of game about defusals, never let defusals happen.

As opposed to what are you proposing? Scum have like 3 NKs or something they are sitting on? For what reason? To keep me alive when I was always going to get limmed at some point for having two defusals?

And now I have no fucking clue how what you're saying is relevant. What does any of this have to do with you positioning to try to lim mistyx instead of me? Nothing. There's no connection. I have no idea what you're even attempting to say

I am merging the arguments that both you and csf are making a but at this point. You're both going on about hiding defusals and when to use NKs, but my point is that after two defusals REGARDLESS OF ALIGNMENT, town should never let me defuse again.

Therefore, if I was scum, I'd just want to get people dead rather than limp along and not be doing anything useful for scum for several days. If I'm scum, I have already achieved above average toward the wincon, very little to gain by hiding kills etc. I don't see how this is actually confusing for you. You're being intentionally obtuse because you want to get me pissed off and having stupid arguments in thread over semantics like this.

[VP Baltar]

I tend to play for worst case scenario

if VPB is town, we can defuse 2 more times safely so we can block the mafia bomb kill twice.

if VPB is scum, we kinda can't afford to defuse anything

AHAHHHAHHHAHAHAHhahhahHHHhBhHHBhah
IF DWLEE DIE WE STILL DISCOVER VP ALIGNMENT?

Okay but just flip scum instead? Also if I flipped scum that actually wouldn't tell you VP's alignment

[VP Baltar]

I tend to play for worst case scenario

if VPB is town, we can defuse 2 more times safely so we can block the mafia bomb kill twice.

if VPB is scum, we kinda can't afford to defuse anything

IF DWLEE DIE WE STILL DISCOVER VP ALIGNMENT?

Okay but just flip scum instead? Also if I flipped scum that actually wouldn't tell you VP's alignment

AHAHHHAHHHAHAHAHhahhahHHHhBhHHBhah

[Bell]

Work. Later.

[VP Baltar]

Btw Datisi said it could be possible that there is a scum role that can blow up a bomb without being in the expert pt

I do not want to believe this because that would be fucking stupid

WHAT THE FUCK AM I READING

[VP Baltar]

I tend to play for worst case scenario

if VPB is town, we can defuse 2 more times safely so we can block the mafia bomb kill twice.

if VPB is scum, we kinda can't afford to defuse anything

IF DWLEE DIE WE STILL DISCOVER VP ALIGNMENT?

Vote dwlee.

Wow, you realised?

This is what I get for trying to trust my own reads and ability to play this stupid game.

A FOOL. A FOOL.

[Dwlee99]

Therefore, if I was scum, I'd just want to get people dead rather than limp along and not be doing anything useful for scum for several days. If I'm scum, I have already achieved above average toward the wincon, very little to gain by hiding kills etc. I don't see how this is actually confusing for you. You're being intentionally obtuse because you want to get me pissed off and having stupid arguments in thread over semantics like this.

It's literally -EV for scum to use kills early and also would get you limmed easier. Why would I believe you would do something obviously umoptimal as scum? Do the math yourself and see that saving kills for later days increases scum win odds

[Dwlee99]

Honestly baltar if you're town then Datisi is hard trolling us and I want out

[Dwlee99]

Like a role that if town experts 3 town then scum can basically guarantee 3 mislims. Do you think that is balanced? No. That's fucking dumb and Datisi likes to get around setup spec but that's way too much

[Dwlee99]

Therefore, if I was scum, I'd just want to get people dead rather than limp along and not be doing anything useful for scum for several days. If I'm scum, I have already achieved above average toward the wincon, very little to gain by hiding kills etc. I don't see how this is actually confusing for you. You're being intentionally obtuse because you want to get me pissed off and having stupid arguments in thread over semantics like this.

It's literally -EV for scum to use kills early and also would get you limmed easier. Why would I believe you would do something obviously umoptimal as scum? Do the math yourself and see that saving kills for later days increases scum win odds

And you're still ignoring 4658 where I literally go through and show how what you're saying in response to me doesn't make sense cause it's completely irrelevant to what I said but you wanna call me obtuse

[VP Baltar]

Therefore, if I was scum, I'd just want to get people dead rather than limp along and not be doing anything useful for scum for several days. If I'm scum, I have already achieved above average toward the wincon, very little to gain by hiding kills etc. I don't see how this is actually confusing for you. You're being intentionally obtuse because you want to get me pissed off and having stupid arguments in thread over semantics like this.

It's literally -EV for scum to use kills early and also would get you limmed easier. Why would I believe you would do something obviously umoptimal as scum? Do the math yourself and see that saving kills for later days increases scum win odds

You're still talking about only math, which is not my strength, so I'll trust you, but kills are way more than that. Kills shape the game for scum. He'll, after N1 we had 3 people claiming PRs! One was a doc! Which do you think hurts scum chances more, letting that live or saving kills for a hypothetical end state?

You're trying to argue semantics rather than the realities of the game in a world where you imagine I'm scum.

[Dwlee99]

Keep Talking and Nobody Explodes

modded by Datisi | backup-modded by GeorgeBailey | reviewed by Not Known 15 and Gypyx

player list:

1. catboi
   
   
2. PookyTheMagicalBear
   
   
3. Frogsterking
   
   
4. fireisredsir
   Lukewarm
   
   
5. Andante
   
   
6. Mistyx
   Morning Tweet
   
   
7. VP Baltar
   
   
8. GuiltyLion
   
   
9. Enchant
   The Bulge
   
   
10. Dwlee99
    
    
11. Cephrir
    
    
12. Greeting
    
    
13. Andresvmb
    *
    
14. Cat Scratch Fever
    
    
15. Menalque
    *
    
16. Titus
    *
    
17. Malakittens
    The Praetorian
    
    
18. StrangeMatter
    
    
19. Bell

bold = confirmed, asterisk = prod, strike = replaced

still talking:

Spoiler:

1. PookyTheMagicalBear
   
2. Andante
   
3. Mistyx
   
4. VP Baltar
   
5. GuiltyLion
   
6. Enchant
   
7. Dwlee99
   
8. Cephrir
   
9. Cat Scratch Fever
   
10. Menalque
    
11. Titus
    
12. Bell

explo-dead:

Spoiler:

1. fireisredsir,
   DATS Inc. 1-shot bulletproof bodyguard
   , executed day 1
   
2. catboi,
   DATS Inc. macho 1-shot daredevil innocent child
   , exploded night 1
   
3. Frogsterking,
   DATS Inc. intel master
   , executed day 2
   
4. Malakittens,
   GB Inc. informed infiltrator
   , executed day 3
   
5. Andresvmb,
   DATS Inc. simple doctor
   , exploded night 3
   
6. Greeting,
   DATS Inc. trainee
   , killed night 3
   
7. StrangeMatter,
   DATS Inc. vanilla employee
   , executed day 4

events & votecounts:

Spoiler:

1. day 1 starts | vc 1.00 | vc 1.01 | vc 1.02 | vc 1.03 | vc 1.04 | Lukewarm → fireisredsir | vc 1.05 | vc 1.06 | The Praetorian → Malakittens | vc 1.07 | vc 1.08 | The Bulge → Enchant | vc 1.09 | vc 1.10 | vc 1.11 | vc 1.12 | vc 1.13 | Morning Tweet → Mistyx | vc 1.13.5 | vc 1.14 | vc 1.15 | vc 1.16 | vc 1.final | twilight 1 starts | night 1 starts
   
2. day 2 starts | vc 2.00 | vc 2.01 | vc 2.02 | vc 2.03 | vc 2.04 | vc 2.final | twilight 2 starts | night 2 starts
   
3. day 3 starts | vc 3.00 | vc 3.01 | vc 3.02 | vc 3.03 | vc 3.04 | vc 3.05 | vc 3.06 | vc 3.07 | vc 3.08 | vc 3.final | twilight 3 starts | night 3 starts
   
4. day 4 starts | vc 4.00 | vc 4.01 | vc 4.02 | vc 4.03 | vc 4.04 | vc 4.05 | vc 4.06 | vc 4.07 | vc 4.08 | vc 4.final | twilight 4 starts | night 4 starts
   
5. day 5 starts | vc 5.00 | vc 5.01 | vc 5.02 | vc 5.03 | vc 5.04

Math isn't semantics though

[VP Baltar]

It is not the only factor. In fact, it isn't even always the most important factor when you're talking about a game involving humans.

So yeah, you're trying to make a semantic point about optimal play in a vacuum rather than the reality of this game.

[Dwlee99]

1.) The doc didn't need to be killed if scum weren't going to kill anyway, and also could be blown up (happened)
2.) The one kill that did go through was on someone who scumread you, exactly what you mean by "shaping gamestate"
3.) We don't know what scum informed knowledge is, but scum could know what PRs to be afraid of etc.

[VP Baltar]

Honestly baltar if you're town then Datisi is hard trolling us and I want out

He literally just told you it is possible! How this did not occur to you is wild af

[Dwlee99]

Yea but that is fucking troll idc if he is now telling me it's possible when I ask him if he did that it's literally evil and unbalanced as fuck

[VP Baltar]

Yea but that is fucking troll idc if he is now telling me it's possible when I ask him if he did that it's literally evil and unbalanced as fuck

How is it unbalanced?

[Dwlee99]

It's essentially 3 guaranteed scum mislims that's why

[Dwlee99]

In review surely someone would have said "hey this role that can just blow someone up goes against scum having limited night kills and will surely lead to an all-town hood being chain mislimmed right?"

[Enchant]

VOTE: Dwlee99

[VP Baltar]

It's essentially 3 guaranteed scum mislims that's why

Not if someone looks at the switches and actually thinks about it for 5 seconds. This is what I mean by being intentionally obtuse

[Dwlee99]

It's essentially 3 guaranteed scum mislims that's why

Not if someone looks at the switches and actually thinks about it for 5 seconds. This is what I mean by being intentionally obtuse

But then everyone goes "no way someone is scum in the group kill kill kill"

[Dwlee99]

There should be a comma but I'm sure you understand what I mean

[VP Baltar]

1.) The doc didn't need to be killed if scum weren't going to kill anyway, and also could be blown up (happened)
2.) The one kill that did go through was on someone who scumread you, exactly what you mean by "shaping gamestate"
3.) We don't know what scum informed knowledge is, but scum could know what PRs to be afraid of etc.

1) if you're scum who want to kill ever, you need to kill the doc. Why would I as scum put a doc as a defuser to draw suspicion on myself rather than just kill them????
2) who hasn't scum read me, but yeah pretty fucking convenient that happens the night I'm about to get sussed hard.
3) how would scum know what PRs andante and greeting are?

[Enchant]

If scum can blow up everything, why they won't do it AT FIRST NIGHT FOR 4 MISELIMS?