Newbie 2093 | New Wave | Postgame

[Malakittens]

Aaaand FG did the tell again

[furtiveglance]

I heard you don't hold a lot of faith in those.

[Malakittens]

As for FG scum text book

FG has now showed remorse for serval deaths of miseliminated players.

I just finished modding a game with him, where he was town, and didn’t show emotion or apologize for it

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=89124

[Malakittens]

I heard you don't hold a lot of faith in those.

I don’t, but you did it a second time in one game and didn’t do it once in the game I modded

[furtiveglance]

In that game I was more accurate with my pushes. In this one I led on abdbla and was very wrong. #respectthedead

[BigTerp]

My issue with Terp though is I feel like they're smart enough to realize it, and it's not explicitly an OMGUS vote I have against them. It's more to the extent if I was playing on Scum, I'd try to get myself eliminated just as much

Just to address this for a moment, because it is a newbie game and what is or isn't OMGUS has come up a few times, but the justification you've given here explicitly

is

OMGUS.

If you say "If I was scum, I would vote for me because I am probably an easy mislim here" knowing you are town, and then follow that thought process with "X is therefore scum, because they voted for me", that is exactly what OMGUS is. The missing piece is that town!X doesn't know you are town.

I mean, I think the argument is rather that the chance of Terp missing the soft claim and continuing to push Asph is low, meaning that the other event that could've happened - Terp being scum and continuing the push for a hardclaim or a mislim - is high.

I don't really think this is the case, though? I missed that it was a softclaim, personally, and even if Terp is scum, what does he gain from a hardclaim? He could already figure out Asph was the jailkeeper by process of elimination, since they know what column we're in. A mislim, too, was very low chance, because Asph always had the option of hardclaim, which essentially clears her. I don't think it's particularly towntell, but it's certainly not scummy.

Well said.

I'm starting to soften my stance here on abdbla a bit. If they are scum, right now is the perfect opportunity to help gain steam with a wagon on myself and get a miselim. Instead, abdbla basically does the opposite above by making sense of my push on Ashp after the soft claim.. Ashp and Mala both have me as their top scum reads and a Mala vote seems forthcoming. I've been waiting on someone else to join in on that, especially if abdbla is scum. But things seem pretty stale, which hints to me that scum is currently happy with where things are. I need to do some reevaluating, but in the meantime........UNVOTE:

Just want to reiterate, before I'll be LA until tomorrow morning (EST), that the lack of movement, lack of discussion and overall quite nature this game has taken really has me thinking that Mafia are very comfortable with the current gamestate.

Mala and Furtive are gaining quite a bit of interest from me in that respect.

As I said. Mafia was clearly comfortable with the way things were going towards the end of day 2. Mala and Furtive in particular where no where to be seen as it got more and more obvious that abdbla was going to be the elim.

I'm having a little bit of trouble seeing Furtive as scum here. He's been pushing HARD on abdbla since day 1. Not sure what to think about that sort of tunneling from scum!Furtive.

Mala has been lurking ALL game. Coming in here and there with little to nothing in terms of the context of their posts. But I was made aware that this seems to be Mala's meta, and isn't necessarily indicative of alignment. I am a little surprised as to how they accepted Aspho's accidental hammer at the end of day 1. However, they say they picked up on the soft claim immediately. Was that coming from an informed player? I'm not sure. I do feel like they were keeping myself in their back pocket and ready to follow Aspho's lead to get me eliminated if needed (if the pressure on abdbla let up).

As far as Val goes, they were really trying to generate discussion and get things going day 2. Especially after I made my intent to hammer abdbla. Seemed pretty townish the way they were playing, but I could see how it could come across as a lot of LAMIST type post though.

Got some things I need to go back through. But right now, I've got Mala as my #1 and Furtive/Val tied at #2.

[BigTerp]

You've scumread abdbla for the majority of the game though, and put votes behind it.

Going back, I find this post from Furtive interesting. In a previous post he pointed out how scum!BigTerp probably wouldn't be on abdbla at the end of day 1. I pointed out that I wasn't, and the above was Furtive's response. Possibly trying to keep me linked with the runup and subsequent miselim of abdbla?

[BigTerp]

Yeah, I'm surprised. What is going on.

What were your thoughts here? What were you surprised about?

[BigTerp]

Well, for what it's worth, I'm convinced its BigTerp as one of the scum. The other I dont know.

I fell like I've played a pretty strong town game. If there is anything specific you'd like me to address and/or answer, I'll all ears!!

[BigTerp]

It’s prob BT & FG.

I still dislike Bt’s push.

FG set off a newbie textbook scum-tell, but I don’t hold a lot of faith on weird stuff like that

I really don’t think it’s Val.
Maybe it’s my heart that doesn’t want it to be Val tho

Push on abdbla? I was off of them at the end of day one. I did intend to hammer early day 2, but eventually softened my stance on scum!abdbla as the day progressed. Moved my vote off of them here 727, with what I felt like was good reason. If you're concerned about the push on abdbla, and it indicative of alliance, Furtive has been pressing HARD there ALL game. It's interesting you haven't mentioned that at all.

What's the newbie scum-tell you're referencing in bold above?

[BigTerp]

Aaaand FG did the tell again

Go on.......

[BigTerp]

As for FG scum text book

FG has now showed remorse for serval deaths of miseliminated players.

I just finished modding a game with him, where he was town, and didn’t show emotion or apologize for it

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=89124

Sorry, I see what you were thinking now. Interesting!!

[BigTerp]

So then we get to the possibility of scumteams that don't include Asph. Call me if I'm wrong, but to me the most effective strategy here would be to eliminate Asph and I. The whole hammering discussion earlier really made me think of this. I'm not sure if it implicates anyone. I'm also not sure I like furtive's complete disregard for the self-hammer. As I've seen mentioned in several games, "informed perspective?"?

Thanks for agreeing to share your thoughts rather than whither away with the threat of being eliminated.

I read all of it, but want to address the above. Now that Asp has claimed a PR, do you still think eliminating yourself today is the best move? Why? If not, who would you suggest for the elim today?

I completely forgot to respond to this, but the largest reason for why the self-elim is something I'm a proponent of is because if someone else is lim'd, then I honestly think Town loses. I'm too easy of an elimination going in to elo. So, yes, I still think I should be eliminated. We'll (probably) lose one of the locktowns due to the nightkill, though not sure who between Italiano and Asph, but I don't think thats a huge deal when considering the big picture.

Personally, I think furtive would be my pick for elimination. The Val/furtive scumteam seems unlikely in my eyes, the interactions they had D1 regarding previous influences and the T02 read seems too big to be a coordinated effort, and a little dangerous at that. Terp/furtive and Mala/furtive both seem roughly equally likely, the Mala scumteam just because Mala is scummy, the Terp scumteam because in light of a red-flip on furtive the "I just can't properly read furtive but I think they're town" thing you've mentioned several times seems very suspicious.

Val/Mala is also unlikely, mainly because I think the whole deal with Mala dropping Val's name several times early on is too attention grabbing. The gain, if they're scum, compared to just... not doing it? It seems minimal. If it's Val/Terp, then I'll concede that my reads are garbage and I deserve to lose. Mala/Terp... maybe? I'd have to abandon all the towncred Terp's gotten over the past two days, and there's no significant connective tissue that makes me think it's likelier than any other scumteam, so I'm disregarding it.

Basically, I don't see a scumteam that doesn't have furtive in it. I might be missing something, of course, I literally just suggested that Asph could simultaneously be scum and Jailkeeper, so perhaps a grain of salt is in order.

Might wanna post it now, just in case.

True. I’ve been going back and forth with Val or Terp and Mala. I think that’s the scum team if Abd is town.

FWIW, the two known towns thoughts prior to the end of day 1.

[BigTerp]

FWIW, the two known towns thoughts prior to the end of day 1.

Sorry, end of day 2.

[BigTerp]

I can't get it out of my head the lack of discussion/participation from Mala and Furtive leading up to the abdbla elim. In particular, the Furtive absence is really sticking out to me. They were "all in" on abdbla right from the start of day 2. As that momentum built, Furtive starting posting less and less up to the point that they were absent for an entire IRL day until abdbla got the hammer. Rather convenient they were not around at all when their #1 scum read was getting the final push to a miselim. Now they are back with a flurry of post at the start of day 3 laying out some pretty good, IMO, thoughts on everyone. I'm not sure if that's scum!Furtive trying to lay the groundwork for another miselim day 3, or town!Furtive coming out of the tunneling on abdbla and actually trying to find a town read amongst the remaining 3 unknown players. I'm leaning towards the former at the moment.

[catboi]

Vote Count 3.01

Not Voting (5):

Asphodelus, BigTerp, furtiveglance, Malakittens, Val89

With 5 alive, it's 3 to eliminate.

Deadline for Day 3 is May 8 at 12:00 AM EST.

Deadline Timer:

(expired on 2022-05-08 00:00:00)

[furtiveglance]

You've scumread abdbla for the majority of the game though, and put votes behind it.

Going back, I find this post from Furtive interesting. In a previous post he pointed out how scum!BigTerp probably wouldn't be on abdbla at the end of day 1. I pointed out that I wasn't, and the above was Furtive's response. Possibly trying to keep me linked with the runup and subsequent miselim of abdbla?

abdbla was my push, we all know that. It's factual that you supported the push though, don't try and wash your hands of it and scapegoat me. I'm considering the possibility of you being the one other VT here, but posts like these are making me question that.

Besides, you said Mala was your #1 scumread right now just after I said pretty much the same thing. I can't see a natural progression in your thinking that led you to Mala being #1 here, and that's what's bugging me. What changed since 721, when you said if abdbla flips green you'd have me #1? I'm worried it could be a strategic decision rather than a genuine change in your thinking.

[BigTerp]

You've scumread abdbla for the majority of the game though, and put votes behind it.

Going back, I find this post from Furtive interesting. In a previous post he pointed out how scum!BigTerp probably wouldn't be on abdbla at the end of day 1. I pointed out that I wasn't, and the above was Furtive's response. Possibly trying to keep me linked with the runup and subsequent miselim of abdbla?

abdbla was my push, we all know that. It's factual that you supported the push though, don't try and wash your hands of it and scapegoat me. I'm considering the possibility of you being the one other VT here, but posts like these are making me question that.

Besides, you said Mala was your #1 scumread right now just after I said pretty much the same thing. I can't see a natural progression in your thinking that led you to Mala being #1 here, and that's what's bugging me. What changed since 721, when you said if abdbla flips green you'd have me #1? I'm worried it could be a strategic decision rather than a genuine change in your thinking.

Quite the defensive turn here from you. Not at all how I've seen you play, in admittedly a small sample. But definitely caught my eye.

I'm not trying to distance myself at all from the abdbla push. I've explained my thought process there several times and was just correcting your post. I found it interesting, however, how you wanted to ensure that it was known how I've been pushing for them and put my votes behind it, which I never denied. 727 and 728 are precisely why I moved off of abdbla and got way more suspicious of yourself and Mala. Then here 764 is more reasons for my suspicion of yourself and Mala. I can't say for certainty which I believe to be the most scummiest however. Your hard pushing of abdbla gives me pause, not sure scum!Furtive pushes that hard for a miselim. But your reaction here has me thinking otherwise.

[BigTerp]

Besides, you said Mala was your #1 scumread right now just after I said pretty much the same thing. I can't see a natural progression in your thinking that led you to Mala being #1 here, and that's what's bugging me. What changed since 721, when you said if abdbla flips green you'd have me #1? I'm worried it could be a strategic decision rather than a genuine change in your thinking.

I realized I didn't really specifically address this. The thing that caused me to flip flop you and Mala, more than once even, is the distance you both put away from the game towards the end of day 2. I was confident the lack of participation meant mafia was happy with where the votes currently were. You two were the least active. Then abdbla post this 726 which completely flipped my thoughts on them being scum. ZERO reason for them to defend my thinking at that point in the game. I had a hard time, and still do somewhat, thinking scum!Furtive would push a miselim so hard 2 days in a row. So that brings me back around to Mala.

[catboi]

Prodding Val89.

[furtiveglance]

Besides, you said Mala was your #1 scumread right now just after I said pretty much the same thing. I can't see a natural progression in your thinking that led you to Mala being #1 here, and that's what's bugging me. What changed since 721, when you said if abdbla flips green you'd have me #1? I'm worried it could be a strategic decision rather than a genuine change in your thinking.

I realized I didn't really specifically address this. The thing that caused me to flip flop you and Mala, more than once even, is the distance you both put away from the game towards the end of day 2. I was confident the lack of participation meant mafia was happy with where the votes currently were. You two were the least active. Then abdbla post this 726 which completely flipped my thoughts on them being scum. ZERO reason for them to defend my thinking at that point in the game. I had a hard time, and still do somewhat, thinking scum!Furtive would push a miselim so hard 2 days in a row. So that brings me back around to Mala.

I understand this thinking coming from town, but also from mafia jumping off a town wagon last minute. As for the feeling about you copying my thoughts, it was partly the way you formatted your reads - Mala top scumread and the other two (me and val) joint second - that mirrored my posting early today. Why didn't you go for a ranking (1,2,3) instead?

[BigTerp]

I understand this thinking coming from town, but also from mafia jumping off a town wagon last minute. As for the feeling about you copying my thoughts, it was partly the way you formatted your reads - Mala top scumread and the other two (me and val) joint second - that mirrored my posting early today. Why didn't you go for a ranking (1,2,3) instead?

I wouldn't expect a mafia player to jump off the wagon that close to an elim. abdbla was pretty much a done deal, for an elim, from halfway through day 1. I don't see why mafia would draw attention to themselves in that way. The post that abdbla made really made me think I had my read on them wrong all along. I just couldn't see why they would defend me, if scum, when I was the only other player catching any heat whatsoever. In fact, I was only catching heat for my pushing of Aspho, which is exactly what abdbla was defending, or at least trying to make sense of in their own head. No chance scum!abdbla does that in the position they are in.

As far as ranking 1,2,3 and mirroring your reads, after abdbla made this post 726 I was convinced I was looking in the wrong direction. My attention immediately went to yourself and Mala, mostly for being M.I.A. for over 24 hours while abdbla got run up and ultimately miselim'd. Mala made more sense than yourself in that scenario because of your pretty hard pushing of a miselim for 2 straight days. But, your absence leading up to that still has me thinking hard about you. As far as Val goes, I had them pegged as town for their discussion and thoughts on keeping us from eliminating abdbla so soon on day 2. I came out quickly with an intent to hammer, and Val wanted that shut down immediately and wanted to garner discussions from other players. Fair enough, and I feel like we got that. Val ultimately put their vote back on abdbla, and we know the rest. Looking back on that progression it could easily have come from an informed player.

So, now that you ask why I didn't go 1,2,3 I don't think I could right now. I'm so back and forth between yourself and Mala. But then I type all of this up and Val is right there as well. A few different scenarios, that make perfect sense in my head, but all lead to different scum/town reads.

[Asphodelus]

Man, I'm super lost. I honestly think BigTerp is one of the people, but not enough to risk it all.

[BigTerp]

Man, I'm super lost. I honestly think BigTerp is one of the people, but not enough to risk it all.

I obviously don't have to consider myself, but I'm right there with you. Between the three (Mala, Furtive, Val) I can make a convincing argument to myself for any of them. I keep going back and forth between all three. I'm trying to find something that really sticks out between the three of them, but haven't figured that out yet.

When you say "BigTerp is one of the people" are you saying you think I'm town now? You seemed pretty convinced after day 2 that I was scum. If the answer to that is yes, what changed your mind? If you still think I'm scum, I'm open to answering any question(s) you have. Please, ask away. Give me a chance to attempt to clear anything up before you vote. Like Furtive said, a vote on a town player just leaves the door open for a quick hammer and a mafia win.

I won't be on much more today, but will try and dive back in tomorrow morning to try and make sense between those 3 listed above.

[BigTerp]

What is going on here? Val M.I.A., Mala and Aspho with barely anything to contribute. We're not going to get ANYWHERE with just 2 out of 5 players participating. Let's get some discussion going!!!